Nearing the half way stage I for one would have loved us and expected us to have won more of our home games. However can't really fault the football being played, and it's only the shouts of 'play if fucking forward' and the overall lack of patience from some of the more dickheady elements of the crowd when a centre half keeps possession by playing the ball back to the goalkeeper. Something which I find sickly ironic as the reason we got relegated last year was down to our inability to retain possesion.
SO what do you want. Shit football and ground out results OR the side attempting to play their way of of the league?
Simple question doesn't require an essay length answer ;-)
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And, to be fair, I don't think playing shit football and grinding out results are enough in the Championship. You need flair too. But everyone's beating each other - just ask Watford fans after a few months of lording it - and maybe we won't see the true class until long after Christmas. We won't get that at The Valley if we're writing off the side before the festive lights are up.
That is the problem though, in the last 2 games they haven't tried to "play" the main tactic seems to be knock it long to Big Chris and hope for the best.
The most frusting thing about it is that all the chances in the last 2 games have come when we have actually played it on the deck.
We are too predictable and far too slow.
we are better off without him.
4-4-2 with wingers and the strikers up front who know where the onion bag is & are not afraid to a) shoot and b) mix it with the cente halves.
If I had my way yesterday Unsworth would have been off - he was boked early on & from then on we never went near him......criminal. Big Chris should have been all over him like a rash (I bet Beattie would have been) and Varney should have run at hime with the ball. Sam or Mcleod should have come on sooner and done the same. Don't tell me a that we couldn't have either drawn another foul from him in or outside the box which would have given us a pen or played 60 mins against 10 men.
Generally I would also like to see us more positive - more shots and more crosses from the byeline. Funny that we have gven away 2 pens in 2 games which were results from a ball played close to the byeline, accross the goalmouth and to the far post which we have found is hard to defend. It is easy to defend a ball slung in diaganally from the 18 yard line.
As I keep saying - goals win games. Poor defending doesn't help but if we had got a 2nd before they got their 3rd I'd expect us to have gone on and won the game. You can have as many clean sheets as you like, but if you don't score the best you'll get is a 0-0.......and 27 of those to the end of the season would give us 58 points and would mean relegation.
I know your glass always seems half empty, but that is gross pessimism for the sake of it.
funny how me and Golfie see things so differently being brothers. He takes after his parents !!
To be honest, we're never ever going to win the title. Losing two games in a row at home 3 - 0 and 3 - 1? AT HOME? Never going to win the title. Ever.
And I agree about the long ball thing. We're a side with quality players, why do we even need to play long ball? I can't remember a single goal ever coming out of it. It's a stupid tactic. We're a lot better than that.
I saw an interesting piece on TV about Drogba yesterday. It showed how effective he was when other Chelsea players actually got past him to receive his flick ons. Often he would come short to the long ball & at least 2 players ran past him to be in a position to pick up the flick. Looks so simple & effective when you see how Chelsea make it work. Come on Pards, sort it out!!!
So much for all the muppets who accused Curbs of playing "boring" football and said they'd rather see "exciting" football even if it meant relegation.
What that means in reality is would you rather see us beaten at home in the Premiership or the Championship? If you get stuffed in the Prem at least you have the consolation of having seen the best players.
Pardew has not surpassed himself in these two home matches. He has distinctly rose tinted spectacles when it comes to the capability (or not) of Matt Holland and Semedo has made way for him with inevitable results. He actually admitted to it being a mistake withdrawing Semedo a few games back so why do it again on Tuesday and have him as an unused sub today?!
We've said it often but we are a team of midgets (excepting Iwelumo) so Pardew's tactics are to lump it in the air because the Tony Hateley (Mark Hateley) like Luke Varney is going to beat Unsworth and Clark Carlisle in the air every time (not!). When we tried to play to feet we opened them up quite easily but couldn't finish. Zheng Zhi is the new Kish in scapegoat terms with our moronic crowd yet even though he showed a bad first touch in the box today to howls of derision and missed a chance Tuesday (Kenny made himself big) he has still got 4 goals from midfield in league games the same as our tubby little Irishman who can do no wrong. Two of his though were penalties.
Before long the morons will be posting how much more exciting it will be in league 1 playing football and winning matches!
Yours despondently,
Amen to that!! However we have to deal with the here and now.
Nearly 24 hours on I still hold by most of that e mail. To clarify in case of misunderstanding my "moron" comments are not directed at posters to this board but rather the element in the crowd who turn on the team at the first opportunity.
Our main problem is lack of physical presence and height which is why Iwelumo has to play. We find it difficult enough to defend set pieces as it is without losing one of our few players with the physical attributes necessary.
We need to adhere to Cloughie's mantra and play the ball on the deck firstly because we are too small to play any other way and secondly, as supposedly more gifted individual players at this level, we should outplay teams on the deck. Unsworth and Carlisle have the turning circle of the QE2 so why didn't we run at them?
I admire Pardew's loyalty to Holland, and Pards also does not get the credit he deserves for discovering Semedo's ability as a midfielder, but an ageing Matty willing as he is severely restricts Zheng and to a lesser extent Reid in getting forward. The back four also look uncertain without Jose in front of them.
As for the crowd we are now Spurs and West Ham. I want Murray to say the free season ticket offer has been cancelled! The plastics who boo and moan will then either not bother to come at all or otherwise not feel they are going to lose out if we are not 5-0 up at home after 15 minutes!
Hit the nail on the head there Len.I think the crux of the problem with our home support is that some see the chance to get a free season ticket next year as a more important requirement than actually getting behind the boys and giving them a bit of positive support!
At the first sign of them not getting the freebie things start to turn sour.
Everyone applauded the board for this excellent gesture, but i now feel it may be a bit of a double edged sword!
Yeah right!!
Hur hur
I'd like us to win more by hook or by crook. Simple
if that means getting involved in some battles we need to do that otherwise we'll be struggling to make the play-offs let alone automatic promotion
Just one sentance Carter. That OK? : - )
Expected better of you than resorting to name calling to be honest Len. As a 'moron' and a 'muppet' (your reference to the moron's 'posting' would suggest that you do actually mean those of us on here who dared dissent from the 'Curbs is an untouchable God' mantra rather than the 'booers') I still don't agree, and it'll take a hell of a lot more than a couple of home defeats in a row to make me change my mind.
Firstly, I'm sick of this ridiculous trade off between playing decent football or winning. That's a nonsense. It's not a stright choice. They are not mutually exclusive.
Secondly, the boring football at the end of the Curbs reign was endemic of everything that was going on around the club at the time. It was about far more than boring football. Curbs had been an amazing manager for us but his heart wasn't in it anymore (why else do you think he wouldn't sign a new contract?) and that spread its way through the team and into the stands and I'd argue a little malaise even crept into the boardroom. Curbs needed a new challenge and we needed to freshen up. It was never going to be easy, there was always going to be a difficult transition but sooner or later it had to happen.
Thirdly, I take no consolation from seeing players of other teams inflict a crushing defeat on Charlton - whichever division they're from.
Fourthly, even if we assume that Curbs is in fact an untouchable God, going on about it after every single home defeat serves absolutely zero purpose. He's gone. Whether he's a departed deity or a mere mortal, he's gone and mostly through his own choice. Maybe it's time we all moved on?
It's not because of the football or the results, it's because of some of our fans, especially Medders.
I'm no blinkered happy clappy fan, and i know the last couple of home games have been pony, you can't disguise that. And there is a real fear in me that like last season, our squad is going to under-perform.
But i just simply can't get my head around the extent of the negativity and how quick people are to turn or criticise.
Its clear that there are quite a few people going to Charlton at the moment simply out of habit rather than anything else.
Most of those are not fans we've picked up in the premiership, but long standing ones who have certainly done their time home and away over the years. Virtually all of those would of started going Charlton when the team / club were shite, and i'm sure all would say they were those years they enjoyed most in following the club.
I know individual circumstances change when we get older, and the day you had then with your mates is very different to the day you get now. But the point i'm trying to get accross, getting turned over at home by the likes of Burnley etc is nothing new to most of us.
Yet why are we so volatile in our reaction to it now ?
Would be interested in views
We have had a sustained period of top flight football (generally top 10) so yes I expect to beat Burnley at home with the players we have.
I dont think we should begrudge the right for people to have a rant and rave after watching the last 180 minutes just like we all enjoyed the previous four games.
Thats what football fans do. In the car home on Tuesday I was listening to Arsenal fans moaning after losing their first game for 6 months. We havent got to that moronic stage yet.
As I tried to explain in the second post that was my reaction at 7:00pm on arriving home from the game.
I try to give my brother an initial response and a considered respose a day or two later.
I thought it might be of interest to post my initial thoughts here too as I had a copy of them.
I don't mean to offend anybody with my name calling but I'm not Mother Teresa and despite my rug, flask and siddarn tendencies I feel defeat / poor performances as much as anybody.
My e mail at 7pm probably reflected that.
Perhaps i'm simply not as 'into it' as others.
Unfortunately, born of the negative state of things, this question is wrong too. (sorry!)
My question would be:
What valid reason can you give for going to a football match and not adding to the atmosphere positively?
If you cannot answer this, please:
a) Get up on Saturday and say "I'm going to see Charlton play today, can't wait".
b) Enjoy a sing-song in and around the ground.
c) Say hello to the fans sitting around you with a smile of encouragement.
d) In periods of play that aren't going our way shout "Come on Charlton".
e) Should we lose, remember that you are a Charlton fan who wants their team to win, not a fan of Charlton when they win.
Some people may have had some bad stuff going on outside of football and I can understand that affecting them. Those that know me should be aware that this has been the single most sh*tty year of my life, but I go to football because I choose to follow the team I love and want to enjoy myself doing so. Saturday I am celebrating my birthday and I look forward to seeing my team play and having a few (ahem) beers with my mates afterwards. Up the Addicks!
Also just seemed to be some really over the top negativity on this board this morning, the same kind that seems to get an airing in the ground every home game too.
As AFKA posts above, so many people who seem to revel in the negativity and turn to moaning and booing as a first response rather than a last resort, I'm starting to see Golfie as the board optimist!
You had every right to be annoyed after that performance and I'm pleased you're not Mother Theresa (she was Millwall anyway I think)! I just don't buy your line of thinking and the assertion that after each defeat that, firstly Curbs even warrants a mention (what the hell has he got to do with anything unless you're talking about West Ham's defeat at Chelsea?) and secondly, that the 'muppets' argument has now been proved wrong. Just doesn't make any sense.
Anyway, we're all a bit frustrated after the last couple of home games but let's remember even Curbs' championship winning season didn't really kick into gear until December. Up the Addicks!
Edited just to add: nice post Sco!
i know lots of others said that the year they met medders was the same for them too!
tee hee. ;-)
I do all of those you mentioned above on a matchday, although this saturday i was feeling a little jaded and wanted to stay in bed, and i doubt anything apart from charlton would have got me up!
I have a very sore throat today combined from friday night and screaming on saturday, but only "come on your reds" and other encouraging words. I saved my harsh words for guy celebrating his goal in front of the north, the lino (both of them) and the ref. who after 10 mins of a player being down in the area, he still didnt know why the lino didn';t signal for the ball going out of play or going for a corner as he was still up the other end. what a knob.