I think also the club are making a massive mistake thinking just because fans haven't written to club that it doesn't mean 20K fans who attended aren't angry at what happened. Most fans would have been furious that as Home fans they were treated this way & that it created an unsafe situation which thankfully no one was hurt .Our fans have quite rightly asked why Millwall fans were given special treatment to leave rather than be held back like the majority of clubs do with away fans as we are at The Den. The violence in East Stand-Landsdown rd exit would have been witnessed by 100-150 Charlton fans, so of course vast majority didn't see it & also haven't seen it on social media as they weren't looking for it. I found it easily enough but as I was very close to fan who was kicked & punched lying on the staircase by 5-6 Millwall & even closer to our fan who was trying to passively and reason with Millwall fans and then punched, so i've been vocal on here, written to club, survey etc. I wrote suggesting positively that club in future reduce Millwalls tickets to 1000-1500, raise the price to offset lost revenue, put them in centre of JS & police and steward it properly next time & keep them in for 30-45mins till streets are clear. The Club's SMT & Comms of course knew all this but took a calculated decision to not highlight arrangements before or during the match so to downplay it and likewise the violence in East Stand, hoping that it would go away. Thankfully Lifers have been universally vocal in how our fans were treated & it seems a number have written to the club & expressed their views on the Mickey mouse survey... so lets wait with baited breath for some cynical statement from the club passing the buck. It just a real shame as this whole debacle has undone a lot of good work, as its clear the club's SMT don't care and for all tannoy annoucements thanking fans for getting behind the team, social media posts ramping up attendances, videos of Nathan pumping his fists to travelling supporters & Covered End. When it mattered with 20,000 fans safety and violence against our fans within the ground the SMT & Comms have gone AWOL. The club will have seen responses via emails and survey that the fans aren't happy, so lets see on Friday morning if someone finally within the club has the balls and intelligence to say right "we messed up'..... lets put out a proper statement and explain ourselves. Its not too late for the club to do this, but I'm not holding my breath this will happen. Well done to the clubs SMT & Comms for scoring an own goal just when things were going so well .....
Jesus Christ. Take a day off. Enough already.
Out of interest, fellow Lifer, were you at the match last Saturday ?
It's just that I thought you resided too far away to attend regularly....or at all .
To be honest what’s that got to do with you, whether he attended or not!!
It would give a sense of perspective as being in the crowds on Harvey Gardens after the game was very different to anything I have seen at The Valley, and have not seen any videos of what it was like.
Rubbish. The response was about the repeated posts on here. Nothing to do with the war in Harvey Gardens.
Many thanks for the response
Indeed.
A very full & informative response to a query merely asking whether said Lifer had in fact attended the game.
People on here with opinions that weren’t there, obviously weren’t there. We should be able to visit the Valley as usual whether it’s Millwall or not (I appreciate that there needs to be a larger police presence and extra segregation etc). Why should we have to suffer when there are families, older people, kids etc etc. just going to a home game. My main issues were : 1. They let Millwall fans out first to give them exclusive use of the station, but many didn’t and just wandered past. Just keep them back, it happens to us there and occasionally other places (it’s part of being an away fan I’m afraid).
2. The south/east gate wasn’t policed, despite the huge police presence outside and the only real place within the stadium that home and away fans could get near eachother. 3. The assumption by many on here is that IF Millwall were kept in, it would somehow enrage them to cause trouble. If that’s the case, then police them properly and ban/reduce allocation if they are really that bad. That’s not ‘our’ problem.
4. The congestion after the game could have become a serious situation, with the vast majority of 20k+ Charlton fans exiting on Harvey Gardens all heading to the end of one road. Had there been any kind of incident (not necessarily football related) towards Charlton Lane, then where would this crowd have gone? Surely having one way out for the majority was insane. Better to iron out these issues now rather than wait for something serious to actually happen.
5. The lack of communication and crowd control post match was shocking and an accident waiting to happen. Not just communication to the fans, but the police had no idea either what was going on. 6. There should have been police in the ground, as many Charlton fans seem to think it’s fair to give their Millwall mates tickets in the home end.
I know most of this has been covered before, but the comments from people on here (mostly not there) who think this it’s just part of a Millwall/derby day experience are way off the mark.
Add to that list that it was absolutely ridiculous to funnel 20k fans onto Charlton Lane and not close Charlton Lane to traffic. It was one impatient/frustrated driver away from tragedy.
Honestly, was it that bad? I get it, people was put out of there normal match day routine? It wasn't as if there was a huge riot, fans fighting all over the stadium.. There was a few scuffles, that you would expect in a local derby..
Really question sometimes, do people have nothing better to do, that moan and complain?
Honestly, was it that bad? I get it, people was put out of there normal match day routine? It wasn't as if there was a huge riot, fans fighting all over the stadium.. There was a few scuffles, that you would expect in a local derby..
Really question sometimes, do people have nothing better to do, that moan and complain?
Here comes the backlash for this comment.
What a twat.
hahahahaha... grow up
Truth hurt?
Not at all, childish response for a grown man sat behind a laptop…
Honestly, was it that bad? I get it, people was put out of there normal match day routine? It wasn't as if there was a huge riot, fans fighting all over the stadium.. There was a few scuffles, that you would expect in a local derby..
Really question sometimes, do people have nothing better to do, that moan and complain?
Here comes the backlash for this comment.
Wasn’t that bad but I don’t see why we should be inconvenienced at the expense of Millwall - that is all I care about - it happened once before and it’s happened again and if we don’t take appropriate measures then it’s gonna happen again - put up or shut up - if we don’t do something about it then we will just have to shut up and take it
I get that.. but it's not as if people wasn't aware it was going to happen! They have found a successful way of getting the Millwall fans away, with little trouble. They will see that as a win. They are not going to be overly worried about a few 100 Charlton fans complaining on forums and social media are they?
They have bigger fish to fry..
I wasn't there either, but I have read what others have said about how the arrangements were communicated, and it was so poor and last minute that many, many people were clearly not aware that it was going to happen. In addition, for many others it would have been their first experience of a Charlton v Millwall game, so they would not even think to look to see if an almost unique situation in football policing was about to unfold. Why would they?
Various people who have professional experience of health and safety have commented that the situation had real potential to become dangerous - indeed it appears it became very close to it on Charlton Lane near and on the level crossing, by the sound of things.
Millwall fans are being given special treatment because their fans are more likely to break the law. It is worrying that anybody would consider that acceptable no matter how many people complain about it, or where they do the complaining.
250 odd police had one job to do on the day, fish or no fish, that was their sole (geddit) task in hand. They should have gone about it in the same way it is done thousands of times every year all over the UK.
Honestly, was it that bad? I get it, people was put out of there normal match day routine? It wasn't as if there was a huge riot, fans fighting all over the stadium.. There was a few scuffles, that you would expect in a local derby..
Really question sometimes, do people have nothing better to do, that moan and complain?
Here comes the backlash for this comment.
What a twat.
hahahahaha... grow up
Truth hurt?
Not at all, childish response for a grown man sat behind a laptop…
As I said what a twat. You obviously have no idea what went on, only one hiding is you I fear.
Honestly, was it that bad? I get it, people was put out of there normal match day routine? It wasn't as if there was a huge riot, fans fighting all over the stadium.. There was a few scuffles, that you would expect in a local derby..
Really question sometimes, do people have nothing better to do, that moan and complain?
Here comes the backlash for this comment.
What a twat.
hahahahaha... grow up
Truth hurt?
Not at all, childish response for a grown man sat behind a laptop…
As I said what a twat. You obviously have no idea what went on, only one hiding is you I fear.
Hiding in fear… haha. Wouldn’t scoop to your level in calling you a twat, but that word is a true reflection of you..
I’m puzzled why some are downplaying legitimate fan concerns. This thread continues because of the club’s poor response. Fan safety must always come first: keep Millwall fans locked in, use the large police and steward presence to ensure a safe stadium and exit, and clearly communicate plans both beforehand and on the day.
Honestly, was it that bad? I get it, people was put out of there normal match day routine? It wasn't as if there was a huge riot, fans fighting all over the stadium.. There was a few scuffles, that you would expect in a local derby..
Really question sometimes, do people have nothing better to do, that moan and complain?
Here comes the backlash for this comment.
What a twat.
hahahahaha... grow up
Truth hurt?
Not at all, childish response for a grown man sat behind a laptop…
As I said what a twat. You obviously have no idea what went on, only one hiding is you I fear.
Hiding in fear… haha. Wouldn’t scoop to your level in calling you a twat, but that word is a true reflection of you..
At least I can spell, were you actually at the game or are you just spouting bollocks.
Three further points that I forgot to add to my previous post were these:- The crowd moving along Harvey Gardens when I saw it was shoulder to shoulder and moving very slowly in a relatively confined space. Not good.
Once someone committed themselves to going in that direction there was zero chance of reversing the situation. Not good.
There were a lot of kids being taken in that direction who were small and vulnerable (I’m not criticising parents/guardians here as they were following police guidelines and may not have been aware of the risk). Not good.
I don’t post on here very often at all and I haven’t read all the other comments on this subject coming into the thread with Dubai’s post. I did attend the Millwall game and sat in the Upper West. Early in my career I served as a fire fighter in Liverpool and saw a few games at the Old Kop and experienced the crowds after those matches. My observation after the Millwall game was as follows:- knowing the decision was to close Floyd Rd to Charlton fans after the match I came out fully expecting to turn right along Harvey Gardens and then head back up to Charlton Park Rd. As I’m 6ft 4 I could see pretty much the situation down Harvey Gardens. My decision? Not a chance was I walking down there. No way. It hadn’t developed into a crush situation and maybe never would have but all it needed was a fight, a heart attack or a fall. Any and more situations like that and there could have been a serious incident, maybe a fatality. So I turned left walked up to the police barrier, sat on a wall chatted to a police officer and one of the other fans until the barrier was lifted after about 20 minutes. Then walked home. My first match at the Valley was between 1964/5. Serious crowds then, but no issues that I can remember because all the exits were open. My belief is that the Millwall fans should have been kept back. I don’t like seeing a situation develop where the outcome relies on luck when people’s lives are at stake.
I suspect we got lucky and it should never be left to luck. That's why we need assurances that there are processes in place for crowd safety, not just from a policing perspective, but emergency response more widely.
Comments
A very full & informative response to a query merely asking whether said Lifer had in fact attended the game.
Various people who have professional experience of health and safety have commented that the situation had real potential to become dangerous - indeed it appears it became very close to it on Charlton Lane near and on the level crossing, by the sound of things.
Millwall fans are being given special treatment because their fans are more likely to break the law. It is worrying that anybody would consider that acceptable no matter how many people complain about it, or where they do the complaining.
250 odd police had one job to do on the day, fish or no fish, that was their sole (geddit) task in hand. They should have gone about it in the same way it is done thousands of times every year all over the UK.
The crowd moving along Harvey Gardens when I saw it was shoulder to shoulder and moving very slowly in a relatively confined space. Not good.
Once someone committed themselves to going in that direction there was zero chance of reversing the situation. Not good.
There were a lot of kids being taken in that direction who were small and vulnerable (I’m not criticising parents/guardians here as they were following police guidelines and may not have been aware of the risk). Not good.
I suspect we got lucky and it should never be left to luck. That's why we need assurances that there are processes in place for crowd safety, not just from a policing perspective, but emergency response more widely.