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Shearer - Footballers with dementia.

Shearer currently interviewing Matt Tees about the effects of frequent heading of the ball in his documentary.
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Comments

  • Watching it now. What a great header of a ball he was. Very sad to see him now.
  • Watching it now. What a great header of a ball he was. Very sad to see him now.

    Little bit before my time tbh but agreed really sad to see.
  • Sad, but he seemed happy. In way it is comforting to know that as he enters the remaining years of his life he has the love and support of his wife who came across as a really intelligent and supportive partner who you know will make sure the rest of his days are as comfortable as possible.
  • Fair play to Shearer, although he concluded in his opinion there wasn't enough evidence to ban heading yet he asked some difficult questions to the FA and PFA about the lack of progress in looking at it as an issue.
  • Admin - can you sink pls, just seen there's already a thread.
  • Interesting documentary, angry at how the Astle case was followed by 15 wasted years, when you consider the billions slushing around the sport

    Another Charlton reference with Konsa? being tested for concussion, what match was that in?
  • The cash rich PFA make my teeth itch. Fund proper science as to wheather heading a fecking football causes dementia or not. Gordon Taylor what have you been doing these past 15 years since Astles death?
    As an aside what a wonderfully stoic wife Matt Tees has. As a kid, I thought Matt had courage, she has so much strength.
  • Disappointing program - the PFA's attitude was shameful.

    We need proper research in this area.
  • HarryLime said:

    The cash rich PFA make my teeth itch. Fund proper science as to wheather heading a fecking football causes dementia or not. Gordon Taylor what have you been doing these past 15 years since Astles death?
    As an aside what a wonderfully stoic wife Matt Tees has. As a kid, I thought Matt had courage, she has so much strength.

    Gordon Taylor has been living on his early reputation for the last 20 years, he's well past his sell by date
  • edited November 13
    Interesting to hear the suggestion made that I highlighted a few days back that it may have more to do with clash of heads on numerous occasions that the players who are more subject to airial battles receive.
    Whether it’s that alone or exacerbated by regular heading of balls on top of head clash injuries is highly debatable.
    For me, I think it’s the fairly regular head clash injuries that cause more damage than mere regular heading of balls.
    Just my opinion and I’m pleased it was touched upon in the programme.
    Meant to say, I implore The FA to look into the matter with all haste.
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  • Disappointing program - the PFA's attitude was shameful.

    We need proper research in this area.

    Gordon Taylor is the highest paid trade union official in the country. Time he got off his fat arse and did something for the members who keep him in the lap of luxury.
  • The PFA and the FA are the wrong organisations to be researching this.

    The PFA looks after current and former professional footballers and has no jurisdiction or oversight on either amateur or junior football.

    The FA has a wider remit, but limited to England (and the rest of the UK in 2012). But no jurisdiction either on training methods for players in other countries or matches played under other organisations' rules, e.g. Champions League, World Cup, etc.

    This issue can only be properly researched and, critically, mitigated world-wide. The duty to clear up what impact heading the ball has on dementia and what to do in order to limit the risks is entirely a matter for FIFA. They need to act, fast.
  • edited November 13
    Chizz.....someone has to do it.....the more hats you throw in the ring the longer it will take to decide who will do what.
    It will take the FA and FIFA months of meetings and to-ing and fro-ing to decide
    who is responsible.
    Just let The FA pull their bloody finger out and just fecking get on with it I say!
    You have a very valid point but I can see it causing huge delays bureaucratically.
  • edited November 13
    Chizz said:

    The PFA and the FA are the wrong organisations to be researching this.

    The PFA looks after current and former professional footballers and has no jurisdiction or oversight on either amateur or junior football.

    The FA has a wider remit, but limited to England (and the rest of the UK in 2012). But no jurisdiction either on training methods for players in other countries or matches played under other organisations' rules, e.g. Champions League, World Cup, etc.

    This issue can only be properly researched and, critically, mitigated world-wide. The duty to clear up what impact heading the ball has on dementia and what to do in order to limit the risks is entirely a matter for FIFA. They need to act, fast.

    You're probably right Chizz, but all the while organisations that have the money to fund research choose to pass the buck it won't get done. I would argue that the PFA's remit is to look out for players so if there is a campaign to be waged to have changes made to the game, that make it safer, they have every right to pick up the baton.

    It's always easier to leave it to someone else. If we applied this principle across the board there is a risk that nothing would get done. Think of the story of The Good Samaritan, it's easy to walk past someone in trouble, after all he's not my friend/brother/son.

    I always work on the principle that if I can do good (in any shape or form) then I should, even if I have no obligation to do so. Why wouldn't I?
  • People moan that tackling is being eradicated from football, how do we feel about heading being outlawed? Would it kill (sorry for using that word) the game and would people lose interest all be it in the name of safety?

    It's also a big issue in NFL and rugby at the moment.
  • iaitch said:

    People moan that tackling is being eradicated from football, how do we feel about heading being outlawed? Would it kill (sorry for using that word) the game and would people lose interest all be it in the name of safety?

    It's also a big issue in NFL and rugby at the moment.

    What we need first is some scientific evidence. After the Astle case, the whole issue was just quietly forgotten about, instead of doing some proper research to try and see whether heading, full stop is dangerous, just the old wet leather ball, or the affect of doing it thousands of times in training

    The bit with John Terry was interesting too, as even in L1 it's notable how much teams are trying to play out from the back, instead of hoofing it aerially. Southgate dropping Smalling in favour of Joe Gomez is another sign of how football is played much more on the floor now.
  • Just watched it. Very interesting.

    There simply has to be a link
  • Just watched it. Very interesting.

    There simply has to be a link

    Maybe Chrissy......but don’t forget many people get dementia who aren’t footballers or sportsmen of any description.
    Maybe Jeff and Matt would have got it anyway.....who knows?
  • Just watched it. Very interesting.

    There simply has to be a link

    Maybe Chrissy......but don’t forget many people get dementia who aren’t footballers or sportsmen of any description.
    Maybe Jeff and Matt would have got it anyway.....who knows?
    The type of dementia is key though. That it's the same type that boxers get, and that they got it so young is concerning
  • Just watched it. Very interesting.

    There simply has to be a link

    Maybe Chrissy......but don’t forget many people get dementia who aren’t footballers or sportsmen of any description.
    Maybe Jeff and Matt would have got it anyway.....who knows?
    But the coroner ruled that Jeff died of dementia brought on by repeatedly heading a football. I would have thought an organisation as cash rich as the PFA would like to find out if there is a link, rather than spend money on buying up paintings by Lowry.
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  • Just watched it. Very interesting.

    There simply has to be a link

    Maybe Chrissy......but don’t forget many people get dementia who aren’t footballers or sportsmen of any description.
    Maybe Jeff and Matt would have got it anyway.....who knows?
    The type of dementia is key though. That it's the same type that boxers get, and that they got it so young is concerning
    There isn't enough evidence to draw any conclusions so the programme lacked any real weight. There seemed to be no stats re the rate of dementia amongst ex footballers versus the general public.

    The program did show how much heavier the old football's were once they soaked up water and also how concussion is poorly dealt with. Players are routinely allowed to continue after a clash of heads with no proper testing done - a physio can't properly check this.

    Gordon Taylor came across as useless which seems his default mode. The lack of concern for ex-Players was pretty shaming.

    I hope research is done and appropriate provision made if needed if industrial injury is proven.
  • Did Shearer look into the effects of toe punting Neil Lennon in the head or always leading with the elbow?

    Fucking hate shearer
  • iaitch said:

    People moan that tackling is being eradicated from football, how do we feel about heading being outlawed? Would it kill (sorry for using that word) the game and would people lose interest all be it in the name of safety?

    It's also a big issue in NFL and rugby at the moment.

    What we need first is some scientific evidence. After the Astle case, the whole issue was just quietly forgotten about, instead of doing some proper research to try and see whether heading, full stop is dangerous, just the old wet leather ball, or the affect of doing it thousands of times in training

    The bit with John Terry was interesting too, as even in L1 it's notable how much teams are trying to play out from the back, instead of hoofing it aerially. Southgate dropping Smalling in favour of Joe Gomez is another sign of how football is played much more on the floor now.
    I'm still involved in Sunday morning (adult) football and it's amazing how little heading goes on now compared with my earlier days in the mid 80's onwards. I can play centre-back now and only have to head two or three per game (and that's in a defence that's constantly under the cosh). Goalie's never used to roll the ball out but they do it all the time now (not least because everyone plays one up front and the defenders can't be closed down).

    Ironically, it's never been easier to head a ball than now. Forwards are nowhere near as physical and rarely even jump with you and the whole one up front thing means, often you're getting a free-header. The balls feel so much lighter than say the old Addidas Tango or Mitre Multiplex of the 80's and they definitely bounce more. The afternoons spent with a crashing headache have long gone (I can remember one especially hard cup game in about 1992 when I must've had between 15-25 headers and came off the pitch with concussion.....seeing double and talking gibberish).
  • HarryLime said:

    Just watched it. Very interesting.

    There simply has to be a link

    Maybe Chrissy......but don’t forget many people get dementia who aren’t footballers or sportsmen of any description.
    Maybe Jeff and Matt would have got it anyway.....who knows?
    But the coroner ruled that Jeff died of dementia brought on by repeatedly heading a football. I would have thought an organisation as cash rich as the PFA would like to find out if there is a link, rather than spend money on buying up paintings by Lowry.
    Doesn’t mean to say his ruling was correct though......does it?
  • HarryLime said:

    Just watched it. Very interesting.

    There simply has to be a link

    Maybe Chrissy......but don’t forget many people get dementia who aren’t footballers or sportsmen of any description.
    Maybe Jeff and Matt would have got it anyway.....who knows?
    But the coroner ruled that Jeff died of dementia brought on by repeatedly heading a football. I would have thought an organisation as cash rich as the PFA would like to find out if there is a link, rather than spend money on buying up paintings by Lowry.
    Doesn’t mean to say his ruling was correct though......does it?
    They need proper research and evidence - too much is guesswork otherwise.

  • As mentioned earlier in the thread the NFL is working on the head trauma issue.
    https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/07/26/nfl-concussion-head-trauma-studies-football-timeline
    Unfortunately, it seems to me, as the helmets the players wear get better, the harder they think they can hit.
    It's hard to imagine that heading the ball is the real issue all of a sudden, the old water-soaked balls would knock you off your feet if you didn't have time to brace yourself, the modern balls seem to weigh half as much.
  • My mate got through to the later stages of some trials at Southampton when he was 14 - it was looking promising but didn't see it through as was elbowed in the head in an aerial challenge that put him out of action - guess who the aerial challenge was with - Shearer.
  • Shearer was a master at using his elbows and arms....... he perfected the ability of stiff arming (which isn’t exactly elbowing), and many a forearm smash was cunningly dished out by him over the years.
    He was certainly no angel when it came to an airial challenge.
  • Matt Tees -----Lino to the old boys that stood near me and my Dad----took me years to put Lino /Mat together !!
  • Chizz.....someone has to do it.....the more hats you throw in the ring the longer it will take to decide who will do what.
    It will take the FA and FIFA months of meetings and to-ing and fro-ing to decide
    who is responsible.
    Just let The FA pull their bloody finger out and just fecking get on with it I say!
    You have a very valid point but I can see it causing huge delays bureaucratically.

    Yes, someone has to do it, but I think the FA and the PFA are the wrong organisation to do so, because of their conflicting interests.

    If the FA produced a fully-funded study which clearly demonstrates a causal link between heading and dementia, they would *have* to do something about it. That is, they would have to change the laws under which the game is played in their matches. That would instantly rule England out of playing in the World Cup. And if they *didn't * do anything, as soon as the next player succumbs to this awful affliction, the class actions would start, threatening the existence of the sport at all. So the FA, for it to continue to operate, *cannot* afford to find a link between heading and dementia. It would spell the end of the FA.

    The PFA only protects the interests only of professional footballers. So their remit cannot be wide enough to investigate the supposed harm done to young footballers - by definition, they can't be PFA members.

    I am not proposing that more hats are thrown in the ring - I am proposing that the one, world-wide governing body which should be utterly apolitical and which has ultimate authority of how the game is played in every territory, by every player should be doing everything possible to satisfy whether there is a causal link. And if (as I suspect) there is, they need to codify the mitigation.

    You say the FA should pull their finger out and get on with it. But why only the English association? There are more than sixty nationalities playing in the Premier League, from Algeria to Zimbabwe. Players brought up in every country should play and train with the highest level of safety possible, not just the ones lucky enough to be English.
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