The PFA and the FA are the wrong organisations to be researching this.
The PFA looks after current and former professional footballers and has no jurisdiction or oversight on either amateur or junior football.
The FA has a wider remit, but limited to England (and the rest of the UK in 2012). But no jurisdiction either on training methods for players in other countries or matches played under other organisations' rules, e.g. Champions League, World Cup, etc.
This issue can only be properly researched and, critically, mitigated world-wide. The duty to clear up what impact heading the ball has on dementia and what to do in order to limit the risks is entirely a matter for FIFA. They need to act, fast.
You're probably right Chizz, but all the while organisations that have the money to fund research choose to pass the buck it won't get done. I would argue that the PFA's remit is to look out for players so if there is a campaign to be waged to have changes made to the game, that make it safer, they have every right to pick up the baton.
It's always easier to leave it to someone else. If we applied this principle across the board there is a risk that nothing would get done. Think of the story of The Good Samaritan, it's easy to walk past someone in trouble, after all he's not my friend/brother/son.
I always work on the principle that if I can do good (in any shape or form) then I should, even if I have no obligation to do so. Why wouldn't I?
I think there is a conflict of interest. The FA cannot afford to find a causal link. And the PFA cannot afford to to find that the link between heading and dementia is only below a certain age, ie dementia being accelerated only by head trauma on youth age players.
If the FA finds a causal link, it threatens their existence; if the PFA finds that the the causal link exists but only for trauma suffered before a player is fully developed, they cannot win cases for the players they represent.
The only world-wide organisation that can - and should - investigate this fully is FIFA. So, instead of the FA and the PFA doing nothing, I would prefer them to be lobbying FIFA to do everything. And for every FA and every players' association around the world and every football manufacturer to lobby FIFA to expedite a full study.
Rod Taylor, who played for Gillingham, has become the second player - after Jeff Astle - to have been diagnosed, post mortem, with chronic traumatic encephalopathy. I imagine there will be many, many more cases in the next few years.
I also suspect that football will have a lot of difficult decisions to make regarding heading the ball. I don't want to see heading banned or limited. But I also don't want to see more footballers suffering debilitating and fatal neurological conditions.
I don't know what the answer is. But it's going to be uncomfortable for all football fans.
Modern footballs are like beach balls in comparison to those that were used years ago so I would imagine any risk to the modern day players would be reduced anyway?!?
Modern footballs are like beach balls in comparison to those that were used years ago so I would imagine any risk to the modern day players would be reduced anyway?!?
I think the issue is not the impact of the ball on the skin of the forehead. That, of course, would be exacerbated if the ball were heavier, or made of a more abrasive material. That said, footballs are heavier now than (dry) footballs were several decades ago.
The issue is the motion of the head coming to an abrupt stop (or slowing down rapidly) each time you head the ball. The damage is caused inside the head. The brain continues moving forward within the head, even though the head has stopped moving forward. The result is the brain impacting on the inside of the skull. Multiply that small, significant impact a hundred times a day for twenty years and it's not surprising that there are diagnoses becoming more frequent.
Rod Taylor, who played for Gillingham, has become the second player - after Jeff Astle - to have been diagnosed, post mortem, with chronic traumatic encephalopathy. I imagine there will be many, many more cases in the next few years.
I also suspect that football will have a lot of difficult decisions to make regarding heading the ball. I don't want to see heading banned or limited. But I also don't want to see more footballers suffering debilitating and fatal neurological conditions.
I don't know what the answer is. But it's going to be uncomfortable for all football fans.
My take on this is that (with modern day players at least), it’s more likely to be clash of head injuries than the actual heading of modern day footballs that will ‘possibly’ cause future cases. It’s a tough one, because these guys that are suffering now are all pretty old and could I suppose have got the condition and symptoms anyway, without ever having headed a football in their lives. Was it the heading of footballs or the clashing of heads.....or a combination of the two? Players who have great ability in the air are of course far more likely to receive clash of head injuries on an ongoing basis. Modern day deliberate elbowing should also be dealt with very harshly as this too could be a contributing factor .....Mr Shearer old son, take note!
Modern footballs are like beach balls in comparison to those that were used years ago so I would imagine any risk to the modern day players would be reduced anyway?!?
I think the issue is not the impact of the ball on the skin of the forehead. That, of course, would be exacerbated if the ball were heavier, or made of a more abrasive material. That said, footballs are heavier now than (dry) footballs were several decades ago.
The issue is the motion of the head coming to an abrupt stop (or slowing down rapidly) each time you head the ball. The damage is caused inside the head. The brain continues moving forward within the head, even though the head has stopped moving forward. The result is the brain impacting on the inside of the skull. Multiply that small, significant impact a hundred times a day for twenty years and it's not surprising that there are diagnoses becoming more frequent.
The Shearer documentary was very interesting, as the issue isn't so much the headers you make during a match, but rather the hundreds you do each day in training.
Modern footballs are like beach balls in comparison to those that were used years ago so I would imagine any risk to the modern day players would be reduced anyway?!?
I think the issue is not the impact of the ball on the skin of the forehead. That, of course, would be exacerbated if the ball were heavier, or made of a more abrasive material. That said, footballs are heavier now than (dry) footballs were several decades ago.
The issue is the motion of the head coming to an abrupt stop (or slowing down rapidly) each time you head the ball. The damage is caused inside the head. The brain continues moving forward within the head, even though the head has stopped moving forward. The result is the brain impacting on the inside of the skull. Multiply that small, significant impact a hundred times a day for twenty years and it's not surprising that there are diagnoses becoming more frequent.
The Shearer documentary was very interesting, as the issue isn't so much the headers you make during a match, but rather the hundreds you do each day in training.
There needs to be more research into this to confirm the level of damage - the FA etc need to be more proactive.
As a football lover and a coach in youth football, there is a conflict. Heading is a key part of the beautiful game. But the health and safety of players has to always take precedence. I wouldn't want the first to cloud the second. If repeated heading of a football causes dementia it has to be banned. It hurts me to say it. Youngsters shouldn't be doing it, certainly.
All of us that have played can remember the header that made your head spin. For me these were almost 100% defensive headers - Strangely, I can't recall an issue with attacking ones and I scored more goals with my head than with my feet. Anyway, this is a serious issue that requires full funding from football with no cover up!
Rod Taylor, who played for Gillingham, has become the second player - after Jeff Astle - to have been diagnosed, post mortem, with chronic traumatic encephalopathy. I imagine there will be many, many more cases in the next few years.
I also suspect that football will have a lot of difficult decisions to make regarding heading the ball. I don't want to see heading banned or limited. But I also don't want to see more footballers suffering debilitating and fatal neurological conditions.
I don't know what the answer is. But it's going to be uncomfortable for all football fans.
My take on this is that (with modern day players at least), it’s more likely to be clash of head injuries than the actual heading of modern day footballs that will ‘possibly’ cause future cases. It’s a tough one, because these guys that are suffering now are all pretty old and could I suppose have got the condition and symptoms anyway, without ever having headed a football in their lives. Was it the heading of footballs or the clashing of heads.....or a combination of the two? Players who have great ability in the air are of course far more likely to receive clash of head injuries on an ongoing basis. Modern day deliberate elbowing should also be dealt with very harshly as this too could be a contributing factor .....Mr Shearer old son, take note!
Rod Taylor, who played for Gillingham, has become the second player - after Jeff Astle - to have been diagnosed, post mortem, with chronic traumatic encephalopathy. I imagine there will be many, many more cases in the next few years.
I also suspect that football will have a lot of difficult decisions to make regarding heading the ball. I don't want to see heading banned or limited. But I also don't want to see more footballers suffering debilitating and fatal neurological conditions.
I don't know what the answer is. But it's going to be uncomfortable for all football fans.
My take on this is that (with modern day players at least), it’s more likely to be clash of head injuries than the actual heading of modern day footballs that will ‘possibly’ cause future cases. It’s a tough one, because these guys that are suffering now are all pretty old and could I suppose have got the condition and symptoms anyway, without ever having headed a football in their lives. Was it the heading of footballs or the clashing of heads.....or a combination of the two? Players who have great ability in the air are of course far more likely to receive clash of head injuries on an ongoing basis. Modern day deliberate elbowing should also be dealt with very harshly as this too could be a contributing factor .....Mr Shearer old son, take note!
Rod Taylor, who played for Gillingham, has become the second player - after Jeff Astle - to have been diagnosed, post mortem, with chronic traumatic encephalopathy. I imagine there will be many, many more cases in the next few years.
I also suspect that football will have a lot of difficult decisions to make regarding heading the ball. I don't want to see heading banned or limited. But I also don't want to see more footballers suffering debilitating and fatal neurological conditions.
I don't know what the answer is. But it's going to be uncomfortable for all football fans.
My take on this is that (with modern day players at least), it’s more likely to be clash of head injuries than the actual heading of modern day footballs that will ‘possibly’ cause future cases. It’s a tough one, because these guys that are suffering now are all pretty old and could I suppose have got the condition and symptoms anyway, without ever having headed a football in their lives. Was it the heading of footballs or the clashing of heads.....or a combination of the two? Players who have great ability in the air are of course far more likely to receive clash of head injuries on an ongoing basis. Modern day deliberate elbowing should also be dealt with very harshly as this too could be a contributing factor .....Mr Shearer old son, take note!
Rod Taylor, who played for Gillingham, has become the second player - after Jeff Astle - to have been diagnosed, post mortem, with chronic traumatic encephalopathy. I imagine there will be many, many more cases in the next few years.
I also suspect that football will have a lot of difficult decisions to make regarding heading the ball. I don't want to see heading banned or limited. But I also don't want to see more footballers suffering debilitating and fatal neurological conditions.
I don't know what the answer is. But it's going to be uncomfortable for all football fans.
My take on this is that (with modern day players at least), it’s more likely to be clash of head injuries than the actual heading of modern day footballs that will ‘possibly’ cause future cases. It’s a tough one, because these guys that are suffering now are all pretty old and could I suppose have got the condition and symptoms anyway, without ever having headed a football in their lives. Was it the heading of footballs or the clashing of heads.....or a combination of the two? Players who have great ability in the air are of course far more likely to receive clash of head injuries on an ongoing basis. Modern day deliberate elbowing should also be dealt with very harshly as this too could be a contributing factor .....Mr Shearer old son, take note!
Bobby Charlton now diagnosed with dementia, following Jack Charlton and Nobby Styles, amongst others.
Pretty obvious there is a huge correlation here, wonder if if was the old heavier footballs or is still a big issue.
Quite possibly, but then Charlton wasn't known for heading the ball.
He’s 83. I’ve known friend’s mothers with dementia younger than that, and they’ve never headed a football in their life. I think it’s much harder to ascribe a cause when people get to that age.
Bobby Charlton now diagnosed with dementia, following Jack Charlton and Nobby Styles, amongst others.
Pretty obvious there is a huge correlation here, wonder if if was the old heavier footballs or is still a big issue.
Quite possibly, but then Charlton wasn't known for heading the ball.
He’s 83. I’ve known friend’s mothers with dementia younger than that, and they’ve never headed a football in their life. I think it’s much harder to ascribe a cause when people get to that age.
Agreed, it's when you get someone much younger like Jeff Astle that the link becomes stronger.
Bobby Charlton now diagnosed with dementia, following Jack Charlton and Nobby Styles, amongst others.
Pretty obvious there is a huge correlation here, wonder if if was the old heavier footballs or is still a big issue.
Quite possibly, but then Charlton wasn't known for heading the ball.
He’s 83. I’ve known friend’s mothers with dementia younger than that, and they’ve never headed a football in their life. I think it’s much harder to ascribe a cause when people get to that age.
That's true, it's just the sheer number of ex pros getting dementia rather than a few of the other illnesses common around people that age.
Bobby Charlton now diagnosed with dementia, following Jack Charlton and Nobby Styles, amongst others.
Pretty obvious there is a huge correlation here, wonder if if was the old heavier footballs or is still a big issue.
Quite possibly, but then Charlton wasn't known for heading the ball.
He’s 83. I’ve known friend’s mothers with dementia younger than that, and they’ve never headed a football in their life. I think it’s much harder to ascribe a cause when people get to that age.
That's true, it's just the sheer number of ex pros getting dementia rather than a few of the other illnesses common around people that age.
Watch an old film of players training in the 50s and 60s and there are always at least 2 players playing head tennis.
Also the "boys of 66" generation are part of the first generation of people to not have been killed, on mass, by wars, poverty and childhood diseases. Most of them got to their 80s, that would never have happened a generation before.
Confirmed cases of dementia are at an all time high, footballers or not, because the number of people aged 80, or over, is at an all time high.
Bobby Charlton now diagnosed with dementia, following Jack Charlton and Nobby Styles, amongst others.
Pretty obvious there is a huge correlation here, wonder if if was the old heavier footballs or is still a big issue.
Quite possibly, but then Charlton wasn't known for heading the ball.
He’s 83. I’ve known friend’s mothers with dementia younger than that, and they’ve never headed a football in their life. I think it’s much harder to ascribe a cause when people get to that age.
Agreed, it's when you get someone much younger like Jeff Astle that the link becomes stronger.
Absolutely - earlier onset definitely increases the chances it was related. It would be interesting to see how age of diagnosis in footballers correlates to the general population.
Bobby Charlton now diagnosed with dementia, following Jack Charlton and Nobby Styles, amongst others.
Pretty obvious there is a huge correlation here, wonder if if was the old heavier footballs or is still a big issue.
Quite possibly, but then Charlton wasn't known for heading the ball.
He’s 83. I’ve known friend’s mothers with dementia younger than that, and they’ve never headed a football in their life. I think it’s much harder to ascribe a cause when people get to that age.
Agreed, it's when you get someone much younger like Jeff Astle that the link becomes stronger.
Absolutely - earlier onset definitely increases the chances it was related. It would be interesting to see how age of diagnosis in footballers correlates to the general population.
The PFA needs to do far more in this area - the sooner they get a competent leader the better.
I listened to Jeff Astle's daughter talking on the subject yesterday and she confirmed that research suggests that modern players will be as affected by the issue as those who played in the past. It's a myth that those who played with the old footballs were more affected.
Something needs to be done and the PFA needs to take a lead to protect its members.
Comments
If the FA finds a causal link, it threatens their existence; if the PFA finds that the the causal link exists but only for trauma suffered before a player is fully developed, they cannot win cases for the players they represent.
The only world-wide organisation that can - and should - investigate this fully is FIFA. So, instead of the FA and the PFA doing nothing, I would prefer them to be lobbying FIFA to do everything. And for every FA and every players' association around the world and every football manufacturer to lobby FIFA to expedite a full study.
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-41970624
I also suspect that football will have a lot of difficult decisions to make regarding heading the ball. I don't want to see heading banned or limited. But I also don't want to see more footballers suffering debilitating and fatal neurological conditions.
I don't know what the answer is. But it's going to be uncomfortable for all football fans.
The issue is the motion of the head coming to an abrupt stop (or slowing down rapidly) each time you head the ball. The damage is caused inside the head. The brain continues moving forward within the head, even though the head has stopped moving forward. The result is the brain impacting on the inside of the skull. Multiply that small, significant impact a hundred times a day for twenty years and it's not surprising that there are diagnoses becoming more frequent.
It’s a tough one, because these guys that are suffering now are all pretty old and could I suppose have got the condition and symptoms anyway, without ever having headed a football in their lives.
Was it the heading of footballs or the clashing of heads.....or a combination of the two? Players who have great ability in the air are of course far more likely to receive clash of head injuries on an ongoing basis.
Modern day deliberate elbowing should also be dealt with very harshly as this too could be a contributing factor .....Mr Shearer old son, take note!
All of us that have played can remember the header that made your head spin. For me these were almost 100% defensive headers - Strangely, I can't recall an issue with attacking ones and I scored more goals with my head than with my feet. Anyway, this is a serious issue that requires full funding from football with no cover up!
Pretty obvious there is a huge correlation here, wonder if if was the old heavier footballs or is still a big issue.
Also the "boys of 66" generation are part of the first generation of people to not have been killed, on mass, by wars, poverty and childhood diseases. Most of them got to their 80s, that would never have happened a generation before.
Confirmed cases of dementia are at an all time high, footballers or not, because the number of people aged 80, or over, is at an all time high.
Glasgow University research certainly suggests footballers are more prone.
I listened to Jeff Astle's daughter talking on the subject yesterday and she confirmed that research suggests that modern players will be as affected by the issue as those who played in the past. It's a myth that those who played with the old footballs were more affected.
Something needs to be done and the PFA needs to take a lead to protect its members.
http://www.thejeffastlefoundation.co.uk/