Can see the argument - people will smoke it regardless of whether it's legal or not.
My point is this - put a proper sentence on cannabis possession, let's say a year in prison and £2,000 fine and people will think twice about doing it.
At the moment, you can walk around the street smoking a joint, stinking of cannabis and nobody bats an eyelid. You can get caught with cannabis and the police give you a 'cannabis warning' which aren't recorded on any central system and so are totally ineffective at deterring drug possession!
Put a proper sentence on it and actually convict people - then offenders will think twice!
As you're so desperate to live in the USA, why haven't you achieved it yet? Slacker
My own brother struggles with functioning in society, and he was a very heavy weed smoker for many years (still is now) - but the change in his personality also coincided with him getting smashed over the head by a police officer (enough to be hospitalised) during the student protests. Which of these things is the cause of his reclusion I am not sure, but I suspect neither are especially good for you.
Mind you, I support his right to continue smoking the stuff and I'd still legalise weed. Legalise, educate, regulate. I'd really like to see comprehensive studies into weed and mental health. It may well exacerbate tendencies that are already present, but lumping all weed use together strikes me as reductive and a blanket ban is a really stupid solution to what might be a localised and controllable problem.
half the kick of smoking bob hope in my misspent youth was the fact that I was breaking the law .. skinning up whilst sitting on the back seats of the bus (In far off days when smoking on the top deck was OK) whilst your 'partners in crime' kept watch was a right laugh .. young man's rebellion .. a few of my old buddies did time for 'cannabis offences', blokes who really would not hurt fly .. ridiculous really but there you go.
IF cannabis was legalised, presumably it would be a govt. monopoly and all the dirty dealer tricks, spraying the bush with harmful chemicals etc. would be a thing of the past .. provided of course that the price was right .. trouble is that rebellious youth then might consider puff too tame and turn to coke, smack and other dangerous commodities which were still illegal
Disagree with that last part. Part of the reason kids will dabble in using weed is that it is relatively harmless. I think there still is and rightly so a massive stigma around using serious class A drugs and we are I'm sure all well aware of their addictiveness and how harmful they can be.
As an aside, I've never met anyone who has regularly used weed who has then gone on to use very heavy stuff. They may have used coke or taken a pill but that is an absolute limit.
Can see the argument - people will smoke it regardless of whether it's legal or not.
My point is this - put a proper sentence on cannabis possession, let's say a year in prison and £2,000 fine and people will think twice about doing it.
At the moment, you can walk around the street smoking a joint, stinking of cannabis and nobody bats an eyelid. You can get caught with cannabis and the police give you a 'cannabis warning' which aren't recorded on any central system and so are totally ineffective at deterring drug possession!
Put a proper sentence on it and actually convict people - then offenders will think twice!
Prison service is too overcrowded for us to start throwing cannabis users in there. Fine is a good idea
Can see the argument - people will smoke it regardless of whether it's legal or not.
My point is this - put a proper sentence on cannabis possession, let's say a year in prison and £2,000 fine and people will think twice about doing it.
At the moment, you can walk around the street smoking a joint, stinking of cannabis and nobody bats an eyelid. You can get caught with cannabis and the police give you a 'cannabis warning' which aren't recorded on any central system and so are totally ineffective at deterring drug possession!
Put a proper sentence on it and actually convict people - then offenders will think twice!
But why would you want to? Just what is it that's so bad about cannabis that you'd put someone in gaol* for a year?
*Twice I typed 'put them in goal for a year', now that is tough.
half the kick of smoking bob hope in my misspent youth was the fact that I was breaking the law .. skinning up whilst sitting on the back seats of the bus (In far off days when smoking on the top deck was OK) whilst your 'partners in crime' kept watch was a right laugh .. young man's rebellion .. a few of my old buddies did time for 'cannabis offences', blokes who really would not hurt fly .. ridiculous really but there you go.
IF cannabis was legalised, presumably it would be a govt. monopoly and all the dirty dealer tricks, spraying the bush with harmful chemicals etc. would be a thing of the past .. provided of course that the price was right .. trouble is that rebellious youth then might consider puff too tame and turn to coke, smack and other dangerous commodities which were still illegal
So obviously different societies and different approaches to public health (though that divide is smaller in the western states), but all of the cannabis dispensaries here are privately owned. There is also a huge sub-culture around the quality of the weed.
Now, is that one of the most annoying but harmless subcultures I'm aware of? Yes. But these are small business that create jobs. This stuff was grown on the west coast before, but now it's done so legally. And it can also help shut down the drug trade problem we have with Mexico as, ideally, there is and is going to continue to be less demand for Mexican weed.
Can see the argument - people will smoke it regardless of whether it's legal or not.
My point is this - put a proper sentence on cannabis possession, let's say a year in prison and £2,000 fine and people will think twice about doing it.
At the moment, you can walk around the street smoking a joint, stinking of cannabis and nobody bats an eyelid. You can get caught with cannabis and the police give you a 'cannabis warning' which aren't recorded on any central system and so are totally ineffective at deterring drug possession!
Put a proper sentence on it and actually convict people - then offenders will think twice!
Prison service is too overcrowded for us to start throwing cannabis users in there. Fine is a good idea
Think of the overtime for AUN
Yep, I want to retire to the Bahamas when I'm fifty.
half the kick of smoking bob hope in my misspent youth was the fact that I was breaking the law .. skinning up whilst sitting on the back seats of the bus (In far off days when smoking on the top deck was OK) whilst your 'partners in crime' kept watch was a right laugh .. young man's rebellion .. a few of my old buddies did time for 'cannabis offences', blokes who really would not hurt fly .. ridiculous really but there you go.
IF cannabis was legalised, presumably it would be a govt. monopoly and all the dirty dealer tricks, spraying the bush with harmful chemicals etc. would be a thing of the past .. provided of course that the price was right .. trouble is that rebellious youth then might consider puff too tame and turn to coke, smack and other dangerous commodities which were still illegal
So obviously different societies and different approaches to public health (though that divide is smaller in the western states), but all of the cannabis dispensaries here are privately owned. There is also a huge sub-culture around the quality of the weed.
Now, is that one of the most annoying but harmless subcultures I'm aware of? Yes. But these are small business that create jobs. This stuff was grown on the west coast before, but now it's done so legally. And it can also help shut down the drug trade problem we have with Mexico as, ideally, there is and is going to continue to be less demand for Mexican weed.
I would agree with a lot of this .. I was on the west coast in the 1970s and 80s .. 'pot appreciation and consumption' was a cultural thing, growers took pride in the purity and effectiveness of their 'product', this was before it became a real organised crime business, though there was always that criminal element around distribution, especially when smoking dope became de rigueur for all and sundry and not just for fans of The Grateful Dead and Jefferson Airplane ((:>)
Mexico? yes there is a BIG market in cannabis smuggling, BUT I thought most of the really heavy violence revolved around Ice, Coke, Black Tar and Heroin .. but you would know more about this than me
I enjoy a smoke late evening some nights, agree it should be legal, taxed and treated like tobacco and alcohol with alot of information made available. Don't see it happening here for a long time and think we will be one of the last to relax laws, which is a shame because it would absolutely end the majority of dealers eventually and stop most people smoking terrible stuff.
half the kick of smoking bob hope in my misspent youth was the fact that I was breaking the law .. skinning up whilst sitting on the back seats of the bus (In far off days when smoking on the top deck was OK) whilst your 'partners in crime' kept watch was a right laugh .. young man's rebellion .. a few of my old buddies did time for 'cannabis offences', blokes who really would not hurt fly .. ridiculous really but there you go.
IF cannabis was legalised, presumably it would be a govt. monopoly and all the dirty dealer tricks, spraying the bush with harmful chemicals etc. would be a thing of the past .. provided of course that the price was right .. trouble is that rebellious youth then might consider puff too tame and turn to coke, smack and other dangerous commodities which were still illegal
So obviously different societies and different approaches to public health (though that divide is smaller in the western states), but all of the cannabis dispensaries here are privately owned. There is also a huge sub-culture around the quality of the weed.
Now, is that one of the most annoying but harmless subcultures I'm aware of? Yes. But these are small business that create jobs. This stuff was grown on the west coast before, but now it's done so legally. And it can also help shut down the drug trade problem we have with Mexico as, ideally, there is and is going to continue to be less demand for Mexican weed.
I would agree with a lot of this .. I was on the west coast in the 1970s and 80s .. 'pot appreciation and consumption' was a cultural thing, growers took pride in the purity and effectiveness of their 'product', this was before it became a real organised crime business, though there was always that criminal element around distribution, especially when smoking dope became de rigueur for all and sundry and not just for fans of The Grateful Dead and Jefferson Airplane ((:>)
Mexico? yes there is a BIG market in cannabis smuggling, BUT I thought most of the really heavy violence revolved around Ice, Coke, Black Tar and Heroin .. but you would know more about this than me
Re: Mexico, yes. Marijuana for medicinal purposes became legal in California like maybe 10-15 years ago, and I remember reading something that since then marijuana seizures are down drastically because so much weed is grown in California. I'll see if I can find that.
I think it might have been this. I don't have the time to re-read it all right now, but this is an article from seven years ago outlining grow operations in California, the fight to make it legal, etc. It's really good. Since then, the Obama Administration came out and de-prioritized low level drug crimes and marijuana is now legal in CA. There might also have been a law between then and now in which it was either de-criminalized or expanded for medical use because it seem that it's more freely available now than it was back then.
In case you can't tell I'm not like, the best with marijuana laws. This stuff interests me from a justice reform and public health perspective, but the intricacies of what's legal and what's not, I don't really have a dog in that fight so I don't always watch it that closely.
One other thing, I know I've taken the piss out of stoners a lot on this thread, I want to be clear that it is a very specific type that I am talking about.
I agree with a few posters who have mentioned the quantity and strength of cannabis an individual smokes being an issue. I remember smoking half an ounce of Skunk a week at one point in my early 20's which was less than positive for my mental health/social life/bank balance/work. I probably smoke less than half an ounce a year now and don't touch skunk as it makes me quite anxious.
Chatting to other people who've had issues with cannabis or have friends and family in that situation it strikes me that it's a good drug if used moderately when you're in a positive relationship, make reasonable money and have an engaging set of interests away from anything drug related. If you live at your parents home, spend all your hours online and shun the outside world it's a pretty dangerous thing to get into.
I agree with a few posters who have mentioned the quantity and strength of cannabis an individual smokes being an issue. I remember smoking half an ounce of Skunk a week at one point in my early 20's which was less than positive for my mental health/social life/bank balance/work. I probably smoke less than half an ounce a year now and don't touch skunk as it makes me quite anxious.
Chatting to other people who've had issues with cannabis or have friends and family in that situation it strikes me that it's a good drug if used moderately when you're in a positive relationship, make reasonable money and have an engaging set of interests away from anything drug related. If you live at your parents home, spend all your hours online and shun the outside world it's a pretty dangerous thing to get into.
Bingo. Skunk is also a no go for me which is why I tend to only smoke hash (if I ever do, I don't think I've smoked in months, and about a year before that).
Problem is most dealers only ever have one strain in stock which is usually strong skunk. Education and giving more choice through legit retail outlets would imo bring down the negative effects.
half the kick of smoking bob hope in my misspent youth was the fact that I was breaking the law .. skinning up whilst sitting on the back seats of the bus (In far off days when smoking on the top deck was OK) whilst your 'partners in crime' kept watch was a right laugh .. young man's rebellion .. a few of my old buddies did time for 'cannabis offences', blokes who really would not hurt fly .. ridiculous really but there you go.
IF cannabis was legalised, presumably it would be a govt. monopoly and all the dirty dealer tricks, spraying the bush with harmful chemicals etc. would be a thing of the past .. provided of course that the price was right .. trouble is that rebellious youth then might consider puff too tame and turn to coke, smack and other dangerous commodities which were still illegal
Disagree with that last part. Part of the reason kids will dabble in using weed is that it is relatively harmless. I think there still is and rightly so a massive stigma around using serious class A drugs and we are I'm sure all well aware of their addictiveness and how harmful they can be.
As an aside, I've never met anyone who has regularly used weed who has then gone on to use very heavy stuff. They may have used coke or taken a pill but that is an absolute limit.
Pills are physically less harmless than weed, that's if you're taking mdma which in its purest form is actually very harmless and has been proven to actually help mental health problems in low doses. It's only harmful if you refuse to drink water and dance like a mad man for hours or go ott on the water and flood your brain with water. But I agree.
It's also a lot easier for a 16 year old to get weed than it is to get booze now with things like challenge 25 these days.
They're both paranoid and bordering schizophrenic... their other brothers are pretty much fine and they both smoked at a younger age. They both managed to give it up without issue, the other two though are hooked and will never give it up.
Due to this unreliable split in outcomes. I just can't agree that it should be legalised.
This is a strong argument and i have suffered with non weed related mental health quite badly so can emphasise. I did spend a very short time in a mental health ward abour 5 years ago and met one man who was on a different planet due to acholol (lovely bloke and still shake his hand when i see him drinking on the street sadly) and another who looked like his arms had been bitten by 'sharks' due to the self harm caused by acholol. Yet achohol is legal, the fact that something can cause harm does not nesccerally mean it should not be legal. Mind you if we knew then what we know now cigerettes would never have been sold.
I don't disagree on the dangers but cannabis being illegal doesn't seem to have had an impact in a positive sense in relation to the example you have given. Maybe legalizing it won't either, but it might! When something doesn't work, I think it is good to try something else.
Where would it be sold if it were to be legalised, serious question.
As a policy, how can a government be on the backs of fag comopanies and spend millions?? putting out anti smoking publicity and yet legalise smoking?
It would probably be largely sold on the internet. Otherwise the "out of sight" selling requirement would probably apply.
I agree that there is a risk of mixed messages in term of smoking cessation. It is already possible to buy cannabis in the form of vaping liquid, so that would be one big growth area. Also, although smoking is harmful, smoking tobacco products as they are currently made carries additional harms du to additives, though cannabis produced by existing commercial tobacco companies would probably be the same.
With regard to previous references to "gateway" drug use and mental health concerns:
The gateway drug theory has pretty much been discredited. People who go on to develop problems with their drug use tend to have underlying issues that make them vulnerable. Heroin users stick with heroin because they have found what they are looking for - they probably used cannabis at some point and may continue to do so, but cannabis doesn't lead to heroin any more than smoking cigarettes does other than the need to go to illicit sources to get it could expose you. The same applies to other drug use. Beer drinkers have found what they are looking for - they don't necessarily progress to vodka, but some do and some go on to develop problems as a result. But beer isn't a "gateway" to vodka.
There is reason to worry about the effect on young people who begin cannabis use early as it seems to affect the developing brain, and also impacts on personality development at a time when we are still beginning to find out who we are - the challenges that we need in the growing process lose significance. There's a lot to be said for finding creative ways of avoiding boredom rather than medicating for it, for instance. The jury is out on links to schizophrenia and personality disorders but there is evidence there.
Even more concerning is the emergence of synthetic cannabinoids which are far more harmful than organic cannabis. The physical and mental health harms from these compunds would make your hair stand on end. Working in the drug field I have seen "drug experienced" users collapse on the steps of the project after smoking a tiny amount of some of these, there have been a number of deaths and I have also seen people move from comparative stability to needing hospitsalisation for psychiatric reasons. Here's the important bit: THESE DRUGS WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DEVELOPED IF CANNABIS HAD NOT BEEN TARGETED IN THE "WAR ON DRUGS" because there would not have been a market for them.
Legislation doesn't stop people using their drug of choice. Putting people in prison or fining them will not stop use. The only people who might stop using as a result are the people who don't have a problem with it. I have met a number of people who went into prison for petty offences as cannabis smokers and came out heroin addicts. We have had big legislation around these issues for years. The first drug control laws were introduced in the mid - late 1800s and they haven't worked yet.
Just to reiterate, we are talking about the legality or illegality of a plant
Cocaine, heroin, MDMA, amphetamine all have to be processed which is the difference.
If someone wants to grow cannabis then smoke it, jam it up their arse, eat it, whatever I don't understand why they cannot. It's something that grows naturally from the earth
And I've never seen anyone glass anyone after smoking weed. Seen that happen at least 10 times from memory through boozing and bugle
And I don't touch weed, so I think I'm fairly objective on the subject
We should just fix our society so people don't feel a need to get wasted on whatever their drug of choice is!
Good luck with that, you are talking about overriding a basic survival mechanism. All living beings use external stimuli to make themselves feel better. It is so hard wired into our DNA that in it's absence we would probably die.
Where would it be sold if it were to be legalised, serious question.
As a policy, how can a government be on the backs of fag comopanies and spend millions?? putting out anti smoking publicity and yet legalise smoking?
It would probably be largely sold on the internet. Otherwise the "out of sight" selling requirement would probably apply.
I agree that there is a risk of mixed messages in term of smoking cessation. It is already possible to buy cannabis in the form of vaping liquid, so that would be one big growth area. Also, although smoking is harmful, smoking tobacco products as they are currently made carries additional harms du to additives, though cannabis produced by existing commercial tobacco companies would probably be the same.
With regard to previous references to "gateway" drug use and mental health concerns:
The gateway drug theory has pretty much been discredited. People who go on to develop problems with their drug use tend to have underlying issues that make them vulnerable. Heroin users stick with heroin because they have found what they are looking for - they probably used cannabis at some point and may continue to do so, but cannabis doesn't lead to heroin any more than smoking cigarettes does other than the need to go to illicit sources to get it could expose you. The same applies to other drug use. Beer drinkers have found what they are looking for - they don't necessarily progress to vodka, but some do and some go on to develop problems as a result. But beer isn't a "gateway" to vodka.
There is reason to worry about the effect on young people who begin cannabis use early as it seems to affect the developing brain, and also impacts on personality development at a time when we are still beginning to find out who we are - the challenges that we need in the growing process lose significance. There's a lot to be said for finding creative ways of avoiding boredom rather than medicating for it, for instance. The jury is out on links to schizophrenia and personality disorders but there is evidence there.
Even more concerning is the emergence of synthetic cannabinoids which are far more harmful than organic cannabis. The physical and mental health harms from these compunds would make your hair stand on end. Working in the drug field I have seen "drug experienced" users collapse on the steps of the project after smoking a tiny amount of some of these, there have been a number of deaths and I have also seen people move from comparative stability to needing hospitsalisation for psychiatric reasons. Here's the important bit: THESE DRUGS WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DEVELOPED IF CANNABIS HAD NOT BEEN TARGETED IN THE "WAR ON DRUGS" because there would not have been a market for them.
Legislation doesn't stop people using their drug of choice. Putting people in prison or fining them will not stop use. The only people who might stop using as a result are the people who don't have a problem with it. I have met a number of people who went into prison for petty offences as cannabis smokers and came out heroin addicts. We have had big legislation around these issues for years. The first drug control laws were introduced in the mid - late 1800s and they haven't worked yet.
There is so much in that that I disagree with and that frightens me from a credibility point of view that I wouldn't know where to begin if I were to question any of it.
Let me just say that I find it worrying if someone that writes something like this actually works in the drug field - unless you are a drug dealer, of course.
Comments
Mind you, I support his right to continue smoking the stuff and I'd still legalise weed. Legalise, educate, regulate. I'd really like to see comprehensive studies into weed and mental health. It may well exacerbate tendencies that are already present, but lumping all weed use together strikes me as reductive and a blanket ban is a really stupid solution to what might be a localised and controllable problem.
As an aside, I've never met anyone who has regularly used weed who has then gone on to use very heavy stuff. They may have used coke or taken a pill but that is an absolute limit.
*Twice I typed 'put them in goal for a year', now that is tough.
Now, is that one of the most annoying but harmless subcultures I'm aware of? Yes. But these are small business that create jobs. This stuff was grown on the west coast before, but now it's done so legally. And it can also help shut down the drug trade problem we have with Mexico as, ideally, there is and is going to continue to be less demand for Mexican weed.
Yep, I want to retire to the Bahamas when I'm fifty.
Mexico? yes there is a BIG market in cannabis smuggling, BUT I thought most of the really heavy violence revolved around Ice, Coke, Black Tar and Heroin .. but you would know more about this than me
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/marijuanamerica-inside-americas-last-growth-industry-20100401
I think it might have been this. I don't have the time to re-read it all right now, but this is an article from seven years ago outlining grow operations in California, the fight to make it legal, etc. It's really good. Since then, the Obama Administration came out and de-prioritized low level drug crimes and marijuana is now legal in CA. There might also have been a law between then and now in which it was either de-criminalized or expanded for medical use because it seem that it's more freely available now than it was back then.
In case you can't tell I'm not like, the best with marijuana laws. This stuff interests me from a justice reform and public health perspective, but the intricacies of what's legal and what's not, I don't really have a dog in that fight so I don't always watch it that closely.
One other thing, I know I've taken the piss out of stoners a lot on this thread, I want to be clear that it is a very specific type that I am talking about.
Chatting to other people who've had issues with cannabis or have friends and family in that situation it strikes me that it's a good drug if used moderately when you're in a positive relationship, make reasonable money and have an engaging set of interests away from anything drug related. If you live at your parents home, spend all your hours online and shun the outside world it's a pretty dangerous thing to get into.
Problem is most dealers only ever have one strain in stock which is usually strong skunk. Education and giving more choice through legit retail outlets would imo bring down the negative effects.
It's also a lot easier for a 16 year old to get weed than it is to get booze now with things like challenge 25 these days.
I agree that there is a risk of mixed messages in term of smoking cessation. It is already possible to buy cannabis in the form of vaping liquid, so that would be one big growth area. Also, although smoking is harmful, smoking tobacco products as they are currently made carries additional harms du to additives, though cannabis produced by existing commercial tobacco companies would probably be the same.
With regard to previous references to "gateway" drug use and mental health concerns:
The gateway drug theory has pretty much been discredited. People who go on to develop problems with their drug use tend to have underlying issues that make them vulnerable. Heroin users stick with heroin because they have found what they are looking for - they probably used cannabis at some point and may continue to do so, but cannabis doesn't lead to heroin any more than smoking cigarettes does other than the need to go to illicit sources to get it could expose you. The same applies to other drug use. Beer drinkers have found what they are looking for - they don't necessarily progress to vodka, but some do and some go on to develop problems as a result. But beer isn't a "gateway" to vodka.
There is reason to worry about the effect on young people who begin cannabis use early as it seems to affect the developing brain, and also impacts on personality development at a time when we are still beginning to find out who we are - the challenges that we need in the growing process lose significance. There's a lot to be said for finding creative ways of avoiding boredom rather than medicating for it, for instance. The jury is out on links to schizophrenia and personality disorders but there is evidence there.
Even more concerning is the emergence of synthetic cannabinoids which are far more harmful than organic cannabis. The physical and mental health harms from these compunds would make your hair stand on end. Working in the drug field I have seen "drug experienced" users collapse on the steps of the project after smoking a tiny amount of some of these, there have been a number of deaths and I have also seen people move from comparative stability to needing hospitsalisation for psychiatric reasons. Here's the important bit: THESE DRUGS WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DEVELOPED IF CANNABIS HAD NOT BEEN TARGETED IN THE "WAR ON DRUGS" because there would not have been a market for them.
Legislation doesn't stop people using their drug of choice. Putting people in prison or fining them will not stop use. The only people who might stop using as a result are the people who don't have a problem with it. I have met a number of people who went into prison for petty offences as cannabis smokers and came out heroin addicts. We have had big legislation around these issues for years. The first drug control laws were introduced in the mid - late 1800s and they haven't worked yet.
We should just fix our society so people don't feel a need to get wasted on whatever their drug of choice is!
Cocaine, heroin, MDMA, amphetamine all have to be processed which is the difference.
If someone wants to grow cannabis then smoke it, jam it up their arse, eat it, whatever I don't understand why they cannot. It's something that grows naturally from the earth
And I've never seen anyone glass anyone after smoking weed. Seen that happen at least 10 times from memory through boozing and bugle
And I don't touch weed, so I think I'm fairly objective on the subject
Let me just say that I find it worrying if someone that writes something like this actually works in the drug field - unless you are a drug dealer, of course.