I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
I was under the impression that that was the exact reason.
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Does it explain why these two gents have waited 10 years after his death to go public with their revelations?
Even if you have doubts about the testimonies it’s fairly damning video evidence. It’s like Jackson was treating the kid Jimmy as his latest girlfriend. Going everywhere. Wanting to be with him all the time. Exactly like falling in love. Will never be 100% but for me it’s close pushing 99% after watching.
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Who knows what they signed and why they signed it(Michael Jackson and his family I am sure knew some dodgy people like most famous people do, without knowing the ins or outs its possible they were told to sign or something would happen to their families)
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Why pay people off if you've got nothing to hide? Sounds good for credibility.
Does it explain why these two gents have waited 10 years after his death to go public with their revelations?
No offence AFKA but it’s bewildering why this question is always asked of victims - it’s been answered a thousand times, by people far more knowledgeable and eloquent than me on this very forum.
Is it out the questions to suggest that payments were made (and accepted) back when the "done thing" in these types of circles was to sweep abuse under the carpet, but now the victims would like to speak out?
If the victims of Jimmy Savile thought he was too powerful to speak out against at the time, imagine how victims would feel up against Michael, his entourage and his millions of fanatics.
Does it explain why these two gents have waited 10 years after his death to go public with their revelations?
No offence AFKA but it’s bewildering why this question is always asked of victims - it’s been answered a thousand times, by people far more knowledgeable and eloquent than me on this very forum.
No offence, what's the answer then in the Jackson case ?
Does it explain why these two gents have waited 10 years after his death to go public with their revelations?
No offence AFKA but it’s bewildering why this question is always asked of victims - it’s been answered a thousand times, by people far more knowledgeable and eloquent than me on this very forum.
No offence, what's the answer then in the Jackson case ?
I can't begin to imagine how difficult it must be to publicly talk about how you were sexually abused as a child. Especially when you think no one will believe you .
One of the victims is Wade Robson a successful choreographer, who has his own career and money and no reason to lie.
Does it explain why these two gents have waited 10 years after his death to go public with their revelations?
No offence AFKA but it’s bewildering why this question is always asked of victims - it’s been answered a thousand times, by people far more knowledgeable and eloquent than me on this very forum.
No offence, what's the answer then in the Jackson case ?
There is surely no time limit when you, the person abused, are ready to come forward. There maybe many deciding factors like school, work, personal relationships etc that may effect you hiding something as serious as this. Some people take decades before they are ready because it’s they who have been mentally and physically scared, not the abuser who’s been dead 10 days or 10 years.
Does it explain why these two gents have waited 10 years after his death to go public with their revelations?
No offence AFKA but it’s bewildering why this question is always asked of victims - it’s been answered a thousand times, by people far more knowledgeable and eloquent than me on this very forum.
No offence, what's the answer then in the Jackson case ?
There is surely no time limit when you, the person abused, are ready to come forward. There maybe many deciding factors like school, work, personal relationships etc that may effect you hiding something as serious as this. Some people take decades before they are ready because it’s they who have been mentally and physically scared, not the abuser who’s been dead 10 days or 10 years.
Yes I understand all this. My point is, having only partly watched episode 1 ... The men haven't kept quiet for a long time until the time felt right, (as far as I'm aware). I thought they testified at his trial in 2005 (guess) and said he did nothing to them. (Apologies if wrong). Why 14 years later, do they now say he did abuse them, after giving evidence in court saying he didn't ?
Does it explain why these two gents have waited 10 years after his death to go public with their revelations?
No offence AFKA but it’s bewildering why this question is always asked of victims - it’s been answered a thousand times, by people far more knowledgeable and eloquent than me on this very forum.
No offence, what's the answer then in the Jackson case ?
There is surely no time limit when you, the person abused, are ready to come forward. There maybe many deciding factors like school, work, personal relationships etc that may effect you hiding something as serious as this. Some people take decades before they are ready because it’s they who have been mentally and physically scared, not the abuser who’s been dead 10 days or 10 years.
Yes I understand all this. My point is, having only partly watched episode 1 ... They haven't kept quiet for a long time until the time felt right, as far as I'm aware. I thought they testified at his trial in 2005 (guess) and said he did nothing to them. (Apologies if wrong). Why 14 years later say he did abuse them, after giving evidence in court saying he didn't ?
As I said there could be a number of reasons including signing something which meant they felt they had to lie in court and that has now expired so feel they can now speak out
Does it explain why these two gents have waited 10 years after his death to go public with their revelations?
No offence AFKA but it’s bewildering why this question is always asked of victims - it’s been answered a thousand times, by people far more knowledgeable and eloquent than me on this very forum.
No offence, what's the answer then in the Jackson case ?
There is surely no time limit when you, the person abused, are ready to come forward. There maybe many deciding factors like school, work, personal relationships etc that may effect you hiding something as serious as this. Some people take decades before they are ready because it’s they who have been mentally and physically scared, not the abuser who’s been dead 10 days or 10 years.
Yes I understand all this. My point is, having only partly watched episode 1 ... They haven't kept quiet for a long time until the time felt right, as far as I'm aware. I thought they testified at his trial in 2005 (guess) and said he did nothing to them. (Apologies if wrong). Why 14 years later say he did abuse them, after giving evidence in court saying he didn't ?
If only there was a painstakingly-researched, in-depth, detailed and forensic, four-hour long publicly available means of discovering answers to questions like that..!
Does it explain why these two gents have waited 10 years after his death to go public with their revelations?
No offence AFKA but it’s bewildering why this question is always asked of victims - it’s been answered a thousand times, by people far more knowledgeable and eloquent than me on this very forum.
No offence, what's the answer then in the Jackson case ?
There is surely no time limit when you, the person abused, are ready to come forward. There maybe many deciding factors like school, work, personal relationships etc that may effect you hiding something as serious as this. Some people take decades before they are ready because it’s they who have been mentally and physically scared, not the abuser who’s been dead 10 days or 10 years.
Yes I understand all this. My point is, having only partly watched episode 1 ... They haven't kept quiet for a long time until the time felt right, as far as I'm aware. I thought they testified at his trial in 2005 (guess) and said he did nothing to them. (Apologies if wrong). Why 14 years later say he did abuse them, after giving evidence in court saying he didn't ?
If only there was a painstakingly-researched, in-depth, detailed and forensic, four-hour long publicly available means of discovering answers to questions like that..!
My opinion hasn’t changed. I thought he was a peadophile back then and I do now, even more so.
I don’t think you can question the timing or motives of the abused, because unless you’ve been abused you can’t possibly understand the emotions involved, even as far as the love and loyalty you can develop for your abuser.
My wife is an experienced social worker who deals with many unfortunate children who have been physically, sexually and emotionally abused and she is utterly convinced he was a peadophile. She thinks there could be many reasons as to why he turned that way such as the abused becoming the abuser etc, but she’s in no doubt of the monster he was.
Does it explain why these two gents have waited 10 years after his death to go public with their revelations?
No offence AFKA but it’s bewildering why this question is always asked of victims - it’s been answered a thousand times, by people far more knowledgeable and eloquent than me on this very forum.
No offence, what's the answer then in the Jackson case ?
There is surely no time limit when you, the person abused, are ready to come forward. There maybe many deciding factors like school, work, personal relationships etc that may effect you hiding something as serious as this. Some people take decades before they are ready because it’s they who have been mentally and physically scared, not the abuser who’s been dead 10 days or 10 years.
Yes I understand all this. My point is, having only partly watched episode 1 ... They haven't kept quiet for a long time until the time felt right, as far as I'm aware. I thought they testified at his trial in 2005 (guess) and said he did nothing to them. (Apologies if wrong). Why 14 years later say he did abuse them, after giving evidence in court saying he didn't ?
If only there was a painstakingly-researched, in-depth, detailed and forensic, four-hour long publicly available means of discovering answers to questions like that..!
Does it explain why these two gents have waited 10 years after his death to go public with their revelations?
No offence AFKA but it’s bewildering why this question is always asked of victims - it’s been answered a thousand times, by people far more knowledgeable and eloquent than me on this very forum.
No offence, what's the answer then in the Jackson case ?
There is surely no time limit when you, the person abused, are ready to come forward. There maybe many deciding factors like school, work, personal relationships etc that may effect you hiding something as serious as this. Some people take decades before they are ready because it’s they who have been mentally and physically scared, not the abuser who’s been dead 10 days or 10 years.
Yes I understand all this. My point is, having only partly watched episode 1 ... They haven't kept quiet for a long time until the time felt right, as far as I'm aware. I thought they testified at his trial in 2005 (guess) and said he did nothing to them. (Apologies if wrong). Why 14 years later say he did abuse them, after giving evidence in court saying he didn't ?
If only there was a painstakingly-researched, in-depth, detailed and forensic, four-hour long publicly available means of discovering answers to questions like that..!
Thanks, very insightful.
Oh, if it's insight you wanted, you should have said. I know where you can get four hours' worth...
Some of these people couldn't even tell their families, let alone a court. There's also accusations of him and lawyers intimidating and threatening the victims and witnesses.
Does it explain why these two gents have waited 10 years after his death to go public with their revelations?
No offence AFKA but it’s bewildering why this question is always asked of victims - it’s been answered a thousand times, by people far more knowledgeable and eloquent than me on this very forum.
No offence, what's the answer then in the Jackson case ?
There is surely no time limit when you, the person abused, are ready to come forward. There maybe many deciding factors like school, work, personal relationships etc that may effect you hiding something as serious as this. Some people take decades before they are ready because it’s they who have been mentally and physically scared, not the abuser who’s been dead 10 days or 10 years.
Yes I understand all this. My point is, having only partly watched episode 1 ... They haven't kept quiet for a long time until the time felt right, as far as I'm aware. I thought they testified at his trial in 2005 (guess) and said he did nothing to them. (Apologies if wrong). Why 14 years later say he did abuse them, after giving evidence in court saying he didn't ?
If only there was a painstakingly-researched, in-depth, detailed and forensic, four-hour long publicly available means of discovering answers to questions like that..!
Thanks, very insightful.
Oh, if it's insight you wanted, you should have said. I know where you can get four hours' worth...
Does it explain why these two gents have waited 10 years after his death to go public with their revelations?
No offence AFKA but it’s bewildering why this question is always asked of victims - it’s been answered a thousand times, by people far more knowledgeable and eloquent than me on this very forum.
No offence, what's the answer then in the Jackson case ?
There is surely no time limit when you, the person abused, are ready to come forward. There maybe many deciding factors like school, work, personal relationships etc that may effect you hiding something as serious as this. Some people take decades before they are ready because it’s they who have been mentally and physically scared, not the abuser who’s been dead 10 days or 10 years.
Yes I understand all this. My point is, having only partly watched episode 1 ... They haven't kept quiet for a long time until the time felt right, as far as I'm aware. I thought they testified at his trial in 2005 (guess) and said he did nothing to them. (Apologies if wrong). Why 14 years later say he did abuse them, after giving evidence in court saying he didn't ?
Comments
Seems very long 2 hours last night 2 tonight, must be very indepth
If the victims of Jimmy Savile thought he was too powerful to speak out against at the time, imagine how victims would feel up against Michael, his entourage and his millions of fanatics.
One of the victims is Wade Robson a successful choreographer, who has his own career and money and no reason to lie.
The men haven't kept quiet for a long time until the time felt right, (as far as I'm aware).
I thought they testified at his trial in 2005 (guess) and said he did nothing to them. (Apologies if wrong).
Why 14 years later, do they now say he did abuse them, after giving evidence in court saying he didn't ?
I don’t think you can question the timing or motives of the abused, because unless you’ve been abused you can’t possibly understand the emotions involved, even as far as the love and loyalty you can develop for your abuser.
My wife is an experienced social worker who deals with many unfortunate children who have been physically, sexually and emotionally abused and she is utterly convinced he was a peadophile. She thinks there could be many reasons as to why he turned that way such as the abused becoming the abuser etc, but she’s in no doubt of the monster he was.
But the parents.....wtf!!!
Just curious