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Savings and Investments thread

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  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 21,106
    AndyG said:
    bobmunro said:
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    Hi mate. I’m in the same position and currently looking at the same options as you. Like you I can’t decide what way to go. The budget bringing company share values into play has really buggered things up hasn’t it. Spent my life building a business which will eventually potentially either bankrupt my kids or force the closure of a business that provides employment for a not insignificant number of people. The people making these decisions honestly have no brain 
    Are you getting professional advice? Personally I find it really worrying. Trying to make the right decisions which are best for the family. When I started my business in the late eighties it was all about working hard and doing well, but now I feel that things are stacked against business owners. The big one for me was the decision to include pensions into your estate for IHT. 
    Yes we are mate but even so it is not easy trying to reach the correct outcome for 1. the business. 2. The kids and 3. Me.

    My point was that like you it seems unfair that we should be put into this situation where we are having to try and protect what has been built over decades before it becomes a poisen chalice 

    IHT applies to business owners and non business owners alike.
    Yes of course Bob and I have no problem with that at all, I have never shirked at paying tax, however now that business value comes into the mix it leaves a lot of people like me that have a business which would be valued at far higher than my kids could hope to pay the tax on. The value of a business does not = cash available for inheritance tax in many cases 
    Of course, and I agree that asset rich/cash poor estates are problematic. My understanding is that IHT on shares in private non-quoted companies that are majority owned by the deceased can be paid in installments over a 10 year period. I'm not sure on that though as I'm not in that position.

    Without making any value judgement on the rights and wrongs of IHT my view is that as it stands all assets, including private company holding values and DC pensions, should be included.

  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,278
    From the FT

    Winners: Fresnillo: +443% Precious metal mining stocks are among the world’s best performing assets this year — eclipsing even the soaring gold and silver markets that have powered their rise. Companies such as Fresnillo, a silver producer headquartered in Mexico City, have been riding the crest of this wave: the company is up fivefold in 2025, making it the best performing stock in London’s blue-chip FTSE 100 index.

    I thought it was a useful reminder how much the FTSE 100 is not a measure of UK economic/business health.
  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 6,035
    Rob7Lee said:
    AndyG said:
    bobmunro said:
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    Hi mate. I’m in the same position and currently looking at the same options as you. Like you I can’t decide what way to go. The budget bringing company share values into play has really buggered things up hasn’t it. Spent my life building a business which will eventually potentially either bankrupt my kids or force the closure of a business that provides employment for a not insignificant number of people. The people making these decisions honestly have no brain 
    Are you getting professional advice? Personally I find it really worrying. Trying to make the right decisions which are best for the family. When I started my business in the late eighties it was all about working hard and doing well, but now I feel that things are stacked against business owners. The big one for me was the decision to include pensions into your estate for IHT. 
    Yes we are mate but even so it is not easy trying to reach the correct outcome for 1. the business. 2. The kids and 3. Me.

    My point was that like you it seems unfair that we should be put into this situation where we are having to try and protect what has been built over decades before it becomes a poisen chalice 

    IHT applies to business owners and non business owners alike.
    Yes of course Bob and I have no problem with that at all, I have never shirked at paying tax, however now that business value comes into the mix it leaves a lot of people like me that have a business which would be valued at far higher than my kids could hope to pay the tax on. The value of a business does not = cash available for inheritance tax in many cases 
    I assume it's no longer possible to just transfer the company to your children now?
    That is something I have thought about but I have 6 kids, 2 of which work in the business the other 4 never will (through choice) I cannot work out a fair way to do that without diluting the shareholding. Im a 50% shareholder so if I spilt those between my kids and if there is a fall out at some point in the future, control of the business would be lost. For me protecting the future of the business and its employees are the most important thing. 3rd world problem I know but still a pain in the arse
  • TelMc32
    TelMc32 Posts: 9,170
    AndyG said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    AndyG said:
    bobmunro said:
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    Hi mate. I’m in the same position and currently looking at the same options as you. Like you I can’t decide what way to go. The budget bringing company share values into play has really buggered things up hasn’t it. Spent my life building a business which will eventually potentially either bankrupt my kids or force the closure of a business that provides employment for a not insignificant number of people. The people making these decisions honestly have no brain 
    Are you getting professional advice? Personally I find it really worrying. Trying to make the right decisions which are best for the family. When I started my business in the late eighties it was all about working hard and doing well, but now I feel that things are stacked against business owners. The big one for me was the decision to include pensions into your estate for IHT. 
    Yes we are mate but even so it is not easy trying to reach the correct outcome for 1. the business. 2. The kids and 3. Me.

    My point was that like you it seems unfair that we should be put into this situation where we are having to try and protect what has been built over decades before it becomes a poisen chalice 

    IHT applies to business owners and non business owners alike.
    Yes of course Bob and I have no problem with that at all, I have never shirked at paying tax, however now that business value comes into the mix it leaves a lot of people like me that have a business which would be valued at far higher than my kids could hope to pay the tax on. The value of a business does not = cash available for inheritance tax in many cases 
    I assume it's no longer possible to just transfer the company to your children now?
    That is something I have thought about but I have 6 kids, 2 of which work in the business the other 4 never will (through choice) I cannot work out a fair way to do that without diluting the shareholding. Im a 50% shareholder so if I spilt those between my kids and if there is a fall out at some point in the future, control of the business would be lost. For me protecting the future of the business and its employees are the most important thing. 3rd world problem I know but still a pain in the arse
    A personal view, but I’d speak to my kids and discuss how I’d like to pass on the inheritance I have built for them. The two who have worked in the business would receive my 50% share. The other four children would inherit other parts of my estate, but not the business. 
  • allworknoplay
    allworknoplay Posts: 15
    AndyG said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    AndyG said:
    bobmunro said:
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    Hi mate. I’m in the same position and currently looking at the same options as you. Like you I can’t decide what way to go. The budget bringing company share values into play has really buggered things up hasn’t it. Spent my life building a business which will eventually potentially either bankrupt my kids or force the closure of a business that provides employment for a not insignificant number of people. The people making these decisions honestly have no brain 
    Are you getting professional advice? Personally I find it really worrying. Trying to make the right decisions which are best for the family. When I started my business in the late eighties it was all about working hard and doing well, but now I feel that things are stacked against business owners. The big one for me was the decision to include pensions into your estate for IHT. 
    Yes we are mate but even so it is not easy trying to reach the correct outcome for 1. the business. 2. The kids and 3. Me.

    My point was that like you it seems unfair that we should be put into this situation where we are having to try and protect what has been built over decades before it becomes a poisen chalice 

    IHT applies to business owners and non business owners alike.
    Yes of course Bob and I have no problem with that at all, I have never shirked at paying tax, however now that business value comes into the mix it leaves a lot of people like me that have a business which would be valued at far higher than my kids could hope to pay the tax on. The value of a business does not = cash available for inheritance tax in many cases 
    I assume it's no longer possible to just transfer the company to your children now?
    That is something I have thought about but I have 6 kids, 2 of which work in the business the other 4 never will (through choice) I cannot work out a fair way to do that without diluting the shareholding. Im a 50% shareholder so if I spilt those between my kids and if there is a fall out at some point in the future, control of the business would be lost. For me protecting the future of the business and its employees are the most important thing. 3rd world problem I know but still a pain in the arse
    If the other 50% of the company is held by someone outside of your family then you may find the Shareholders agreement stipulates what you can and can't do with your 50%. If you can transfer your shares, then perhaps look at setting up a separate Family Investment Company to hold your 50% stake. Your children can hold shares in the FIC without you losing control. You can also put in place provisions so the shares can only be passed to your bloodline so they are protected from fall-outs, divorce etc. Worth a discussion with your IFA about. 
  • TelMc32
    TelMc32 Posts: 9,170
    The news seems to be focusing on the farmers affected by today’s increase in IHT relief from £1m to £2.5m, but it applies to small businesses too. Hopefully, that will help some of our posters with their own businesses, as I know it does an old client of mine.  Not a great look to see another u-turn, but I’d rather they listened, understood and acted than plough (yes, I really did say that 😉) on regardless.
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 34,355
    Another reason why Rachel has to come back for more money next October. That black hole is not getting filled anytime soon is it 


  • TelMc32
    TelMc32 Posts: 9,170
    golfaddick said:
    Another reason why Rachel has to come back for more money next October. That black hole is not getting filled anytime soon is it 


    Although this measure was never actually expected to rake in much, relatively speaking, despite all the backlash it created.
  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 6,035
    golfaddick said:
    Another reason why Rachel has to come back for more money next October. That black hole is not getting filled anytime soon is it 


    She needs to ditch that promise about not raising taxes and lift the tax rate. I honestly think few people would object and prefer that to all this stealth tax policies that just take people for mugs. 
  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,370
    AndyG said:
    golfaddick said:
    Another reason why Rachel has to come back for more money next October. That black hole is not getting filled anytime soon is it 


    She needs to ditch that promise about not raising taxes and lift the tax rate. I honestly think few people would object and prefer that to all this stealth tax policies that just take people for mugs. 
    This is it. All of them spend so much time in a different world to us referring to us and patronisong us as an almost mythical, ethereal entity "hard working taxpayers" "hard working families" they think we are too stupid to see through shit like what she is doing 

    Stick a penny on income tax and be done with it. I don't think any of us genuinely mind paying our share, what I personally really don't like is doing that then all the pinching that goes on and it is endless. 



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  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,898
    Completely agree. Can't believe we are in a situation where a lot of people are calling for a rise in income tax for everyone, a labour wet dream. 
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,780
    Huskaris said:
    Completely agree. Can't believe we are in a situation where a lot of people are calling for a rise in income tax for everyone, a labour wet dream. 
    The difficulty is, a penny on Income Tax just won't raise what's needed. Think I saw figures it'd raise about 7bn a year now, rising to 10bn by 2030/31.

    I wobble my head that our politicians don't realise the whole system and country is broken, raising a bit of tax here and there just isn't going to cut it alone, unless we get a massive grip on expenditure and at the same time growth, we're doomed I tell ya!
  • CafcWest
    CafcWest Posts: 6,236
    But raising taxes is not the answer.  Growth is.  If companies were given incentives to expand, employ more people, create new jobs then tax revenue would go up automatically through PAYE.  Making companies pay more tax through increased employer NI or corporation tax does nothing for growth - listed companies have to consider their shareholders and dividends so always want to increase profit, cut back on jobs and expenditure.  Currently unemployment is 5%+ - how many millions are unemployed, getting benefits and therefore reducing the tax take and increasing the apparent need to increase tax?  I have a 20 year old daughter who really wants to work but finding a job is proving really difficult.
  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,370
    CafcWest said:
    But raising taxes is not the answer.  Growth is.  If companies were given incentives to expand, employ more people, create new jobs then tax revenue would go up automatically through PAYE.  Making companies pay more tax through increased employer NI or corporation tax does nothing for growth - listed companies have to consider their shareholders and dividends so always want to increase profit, cut back on jobs and expenditure.  Currently unemployment is 5%+ - how many millions are unemployed, getting benefits and therefore reducing the tax take and increasing the apparent need to increase tax?  I have a 20 year old daughter who really wants to work but finding a job is proving really difficult.
    I also strongly agree with that 

    My point around raising income tax is a kick back against a ridiculous taxation system. 


  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 6,035
    Agree totally the Country needs its politicians to wake up and start being honest. I truly believe most people understand the situation and would be willing to suck it up if they can see honest progress. This lot have put themselves in a rabbit hole that they can’t get out of and it will have serious ramifications at the next election if we are not careful 
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,905
    The labour left opposing any form of benefits cut has not helped 
  • LargeAddick
    LargeAddick Posts: 32,975
    blackpool72 said:
    The labour left opposing any form of benefits cut has not helped 
    Labour being in power full stop hasn’t helped.
  • Gribbo
    Gribbo Posts: 8,669
    Opened up a Monzo "Round Up" pot on my pocket money bank account, I'll let you know how it goes
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,508
    CafcWest said:
    But raising taxes is not the answer.  Growth is.  If companies were given incentives to expand, employ more people, create new jobs then tax revenue would go up automatically through PAYE.  Making companies pay more tax through increased employer NI or corporation tax does nothing for growth - listed companies have to consider their shareholders and dividends so always want to increase profit, cut back on jobs and expenditure.  Currently unemployment is 5%+ - how many millions are unemployed, getting benefits and therefore reducing the tax take and increasing the apparent need to increase tax?  I have a 20 year old daughter who really wants to work but finding a job is proving really difficult.
    Let's not be beastly to the corporations eh. Record and widening wealth gaps but lift a finger against them and they'll have no choice but to cut even more jobs or leave the country! Still, if all goes well we'll have the most pro-oligarchy prime minister of all time after the next election so these corporations will be free to do exactly as they wish, which, hey, might even mean employing people! Or it might not, the possibilities are endless! 
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,508
    Like, you've literally said it in your post - "listed companies have to consider their shareholders and dividends so always want to increase profit, cut back on jobs and expenditure". No word of a lie in there - these are the malicious behemoths we've built society around, and whose stranglehold is ensuring a poisonously awful jobs market. And your solution is to...do exactly what they want, in the hopes they might show mercy to the little people? 

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  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 6,035
    Leuth said:
    Like, you've literally said it in your post - "listed companies have to consider their shareholders and dividends so always want to increase profit, cut back on jobs and expenditure". No word of a lie in there - these are the malicious behemoths we've built society around, and whose stranglehold is ensuring a poisonously awful jobs market. And your solution is to...do exactly what they want, in the hopes they might show mercy to the little people? 
    Mate not wishing to start a Xmas row but your last 2 posts are so wrong on all levels. The growth people are talking about is delivered by businesses outside of the companies that you are I think aiming at. The increase in stealth taxes do not effect those companies that much but it does impact greatly on SME’s which are the ones that drive the country’s economy. Politics of envy and a race to the bottom is not the way to go 
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,508
    AndyG said:
    Leuth said:
    Like, you've literally said it in your post - "listed companies have to consider their shareholders and dividends so always want to increase profit, cut back on jobs and expenditure". No word of a lie in there - these are the malicious behemoths we've built society around, and whose stranglehold is ensuring a poisonously awful jobs market. And your solution is to...do exactly what they want, in the hopes they might show mercy to the little people? 
    Mate not wishing to start a Xmas row but your last 2 posts are so wrong on all levels. The growth people are talking about is delivered by businesses outside of the companies that you are I think aiming at. The increase in stealth taxes do not effect those companies that much but it does impact greatly on SME’s which are the ones that drive the country’s economy. Politics of envy and a race to the bottom is not the way to go 
    Perhaps I misunderstood, but yeah, I am not calling for across-the-board raises on corporation tax, I'm calling for a hit on those in monopolised sectors who are making record profits from captive demand. The question is where to draw the line, but I would not be targeting your business. Then again, I wouldn't be Chancellor. Although maybe I could teach Cuddly Zack what the deficit is 
  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 6,035
    Leuth said:
    AndyG said:
    Leuth said:
    Like, you've literally said it in your post - "listed companies have to consider their shareholders and dividends so always want to increase profit, cut back on jobs and expenditure". No word of a lie in there - these are the malicious behemoths we've built society around, and whose stranglehold is ensuring a poisonously awful jobs market. And your solution is to...do exactly what they want, in the hopes they might show mercy to the little people? 
    Mate not wishing to start a Xmas row but your last 2 posts are so wrong on all levels. The growth people are talking about is delivered by businesses outside of the companies that you are I think aiming at. The increase in stealth taxes do not effect those companies that much but it does impact greatly on SME’s which are the ones that drive the country’s economy. Politics of envy and a race to the bottom is not the way to go 
    Perhaps I misunderstood, but yeah, I am not calling for across-the-board raises on corporation tax, I'm calling for a hit on those in monopolised sectors who are making record profits from captive demand. The question is where to draw the line, but I would not be targeting your business. Then again, I wouldn't be Chancellor. Although maybe I could teach Cuddly Zack what the deficit is 
    I didn’t mean my business either really mate as although it has caused me to think very carefully before recruiting additional staff and also having to do lower wage increases than we intended (the additional taxes have to come from somewhere) but we can cope. Other businesses are not as fortunate. As mentioned elsewhere a lifer has closed his long standing business due to this shit and I’m sure many others will go the same way. All because of a stubbornness and a determination to keep peddling lies from the top
  • ThreadKiller
    ThreadKiller Posts: 8,642
    LargeAddick said:
    blackpool72 said:
    The labour left opposing any form of benefits cut has not helped 
    Labour being in power full stop hasn’t helped.
    Bring back Liz Truss
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,508
    AndyG said:
    Leuth said:
    AndyG said:
    Leuth said:
    Like, you've literally said it in your post - "listed companies have to consider their shareholders and dividends so always want to increase profit, cut back on jobs and expenditure". No word of a lie in there - these are the malicious behemoths we've built society around, and whose stranglehold is ensuring a poisonously awful jobs market. And your solution is to...do exactly what they want, in the hopes they might show mercy to the little people? 
    Mate not wishing to start a Xmas row but your last 2 posts are so wrong on all levels. The growth people are talking about is delivered by businesses outside of the companies that you are I think aiming at. The increase in stealth taxes do not effect those companies that much but it does impact greatly on SME’s which are the ones that drive the country’s economy. Politics of envy and a race to the bottom is not the way to go 
    Perhaps I misunderstood, but yeah, I am not calling for across-the-board raises on corporation tax, I'm calling for a hit on those in monopolised sectors who are making record profits from captive demand. The question is where to draw the line, but I would not be targeting your business. Then again, I wouldn't be Chancellor. Although maybe I could teach Cuddly Zack what the deficit is 
    I didn’t mean my business either really mate as although it has caused me to think very carefully before recruiting additional staff and also having to do lower wage increases than we intended (the additional taxes have to come from somewhere) but we can cope. Other businesses are not as fortunate. As mentioned elsewhere a lifer has closed his long standing business due to this shit and I’m sure many others will go the same way. All because of a stubbornness and a determination to keep peddling lies from the top
    I'm not talking about businesses of anything other than maximal size, I should have been clearer. 

    Merry Xmas and hope the bottom line prospers :) 
  • Diebythesword
    Diebythesword Posts: 476
    Gribbo said:
    Opened up a Monzo "Round Up" pot on my pocket money bank account, I'll let you know how it goes
    Best thing I’ve done, use it at the end of the year for my Christmas shopping, tends to cover nearly all of it. 
  • Southbank
    Southbank Posts: 5,420
    TelMc32 said:
    The news seems to be focusing on the farmers affected by today’s increase in IHT relief from £1m to £2.5m, but it applies to small businesses too. Hopefully, that will help some of our posters with their own businesses, as I know it does an old client of mine.  Not a great look to see another u-turn, but I’d rather they listened, understood and acted than plough (yes, I really did say that 😉) on regardless.
    Are you sure it does apply across the board? I was thinking of getting some chickens in the office and calling it a smallholding.
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 34,355
    Diebythesword said:
    Gribbo said:
    Opened up a Monzo "Round Up" pot on my pocket money bank account, I'll let you know how it goes
    Best thing I’ve done, use it at the end of the year for my Christmas shopping, tends to cover nearly all of it. 
    I used my Sainsbury's nectar points for that. Been amassing them all year & finally redeemed them on Monday when I did the xmas shop. Shaved £75 off the bill.  
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 29,121
    Southbank said:
    TelMc32 said:
    The news seems to be focusing on the farmers affected by today’s increase in IHT relief from £1m to £2.5m, but it applies to small businesses too. Hopefully, that will help some of our posters with their own businesses, as I know it does an old client of mine.  Not a great look to see another u-turn, but I’d rather they listened, understood and acted than plough (yes, I really did say that 😉) on regardless.
    Are you sure it does apply across the board? I was thinking of getting some chickens in the office and calling it a smallholding.
    It only counts as a smallholding, if you’re choking them.

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