Savings and Investments thread

bobmunro

AndyG said:

bobmunro said:

AndyG said:

allworknoplay said:

AndyG said:

allworknoplay said:

I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers

Hi mate. I’m in the same position and currently looking at the same options as you. Like you I can’t decide what way to go. The budget bringing company share values into play has really buggered things up hasn’t it. Spent my life building a business which will eventually potentially either bankrupt my kids or force the closure of a business that provides employment for a not insignificant number of people. The people making these decisions honestly have no brain 

Are you getting professional advice? Personally I find it really worrying. Trying to make the right decisions which are best for the family. When I started my business in the late eighties it was all about working hard and doing well, but now I feel that things are stacked against business owners. The big one for me was the decision to include pensions into your estate for IHT. 

Yes we are mate but even so it is not easy trying to reach the correct outcome for 1. the business. 2. The kids and 3. Me.

My point was that like you it seems unfair that we should be put into this situation where we are having to try and protect what has been built over decades before it becomes a poisen chalice 

IHT applies to business owners and non business owners alike.

Yes of course Bob and I have no problem with that at all, I have never shirked at paying tax, however now that business value comes into the mix it leaves a lot of people like me that have a business which would be valued at far higher than my kids could hope to pay the tax on. The value of a business does not = cash available for inheritance tax in many cases 

Of course, and I agree that asset rich/cash poor estates are problematic. My understanding is that IHT on shares in private non-quoted companies that are majority owned by the deceased can be paid in installments over a 10 year period. I'm not sure on that though as I'm not in that position.

Without making any value judgement on the rights and wrongs of IHT my view is that as it stands all assets, including private company holding values and DC pensions, should be included.

PragueAddick

From the FT

Winners: Fresnillo: +443% Precious metal mining stocks are among the world’s best performing assets this year — eclipsing even the soaring gold and silver markets that have powered their rise. Companies such as Fresnillo, a silver producer headquartered in Mexico City, have been riding the crest of this wave: the company is up fivefold in 2025, making it the best performing stock in London’s blue-chip FTSE 100 index.

I thought it was a useful reminder how much the FTSE 100 is not a measure of UK economic/business health.

AndyG

Rob7Lee said:

AndyG said:

bobmunro said:

AndyG said:

allworknoplay said:

AndyG said:

allworknoplay said:

I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers

Hi mate. I’m in the same position and currently looking at the same options as you. Like you I can’t decide what way to go. The budget bringing company share values into play has really buggered things up hasn’t it. Spent my life building a business which will eventually potentially either bankrupt my kids or force the closure of a business that provides employment for a not insignificant number of people. The people making these decisions honestly have no brain 

Are you getting professional advice? Personally I find it really worrying. Trying to make the right decisions which are best for the family. When I started my business in the late eighties it was all about working hard and doing well, but now I feel that things are stacked against business owners. The big one for me was the decision to include pensions into your estate for IHT. 

Yes we are mate but even so it is not easy trying to reach the correct outcome for 1. the business. 2. The kids and 3. Me.

My point was that like you it seems unfair that we should be put into this situation where we are having to try and protect what has been built over decades before it becomes a poisen chalice 

IHT applies to business owners and non business owners alike.

Yes of course Bob and I have no problem with that at all, I have never shirked at paying tax, however now that business value comes into the mix it leaves a lot of people like me that have a business which would be valued at far higher than my kids could hope to pay the tax on. The value of a business does not = cash available for inheritance tax in many cases 

I assume it's no longer possible to just transfer the company to your children now?

That is something I have thought about but I have 6 kids, 2 of which work in the business the other 4 never will (through choice) I cannot work out a fair way to do that without diluting the shareholding. Im a 50% shareholder so if I spilt those between my kids and if there is a fall out at some point in the future, control of the business would be lost. For me protecting the future of the business and its employees are the most important thing. 3rd world problem I know but still a pain in the arse

TelMc32

AndyG said:

Rob7Lee said:

AndyG said:

bobmunro said:

AndyG said:

allworknoplay said:

AndyG said:

allworknoplay said:

I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers

Hi mate. I’m in the same position and currently looking at the same options as you. Like you I can’t decide what way to go. The budget bringing company share values into play has really buggered things up hasn’t it. Spent my life building a business which will eventually potentially either bankrupt my kids or force the closure of a business that provides employment for a not insignificant number of people. The people making these decisions honestly have no brain 

Are you getting professional advice? Personally I find it really worrying. Trying to make the right decisions which are best for the family. When I started my business in the late eighties it was all about working hard and doing well, but now I feel that things are stacked against business owners. The big one for me was the decision to include pensions into your estate for IHT. 

Yes we are mate but even so it is not easy trying to reach the correct outcome for 1. the business. 2. The kids and 3. Me.

My point was that like you it seems unfair that we should be put into this situation where we are having to try and protect what has been built over decades before it becomes a poisen chalice 

IHT applies to business owners and non business owners alike.

Yes of course Bob and I have no problem with that at all, I have never shirked at paying tax, however now that business value comes into the mix it leaves a lot of people like me that have a business which would be valued at far higher than my kids could hope to pay the tax on. The value of a business does not = cash available for inheritance tax in many cases 

I assume it's no longer possible to just transfer the company to your children now?

That is something I have thought about but I have 6 kids, 2 of which work in the business the other 4 never will (through choice) I cannot work out a fair way to do that without diluting the shareholding. Im a 50% shareholder so if I spilt those between my kids and if there is a fall out at some point in the future, control of the business would be lost. For me protecting the future of the business and its employees are the most important thing. 3rd world problem I know but still a pain in the arse

A personal view, but I’d speak to my kids and discuss how I’d like to pass on the inheritance I have built for them. The two who have worked in the business would receive my 50% share. The other four children would inherit other parts of my estate, but not the business. 

allworknoplay

AndyG said:

Rob7Lee said:

AndyG said:

bobmunro said:

AndyG said:

allworknoplay said:

AndyG said:

allworknoplay said:

I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers

Hi mate. I’m in the same position and currently looking at the same options as you. Like you I can’t decide what way to go. The budget bringing company share values into play has really buggered things up hasn’t it. Spent my life building a business which will eventually potentially either bankrupt my kids or force the closure of a business that provides employment for a not insignificant number of people. The people making these decisions honestly have no brain 

Are you getting professional advice? Personally I find it really worrying. Trying to make the right decisions which are best for the family. When I started my business in the late eighties it was all about working hard and doing well, but now I feel that things are stacked against business owners. The big one for me was the decision to include pensions into your estate for IHT. 

Yes we are mate but even so it is not easy trying to reach the correct outcome for 1. the business. 2. The kids and 3. Me.

My point was that like you it seems unfair that we should be put into this situation where we are having to try and protect what has been built over decades before it becomes a poisen chalice 

IHT applies to business owners and non business owners alike.

Yes of course Bob and I have no problem with that at all, I have never shirked at paying tax, however now that business value comes into the mix it leaves a lot of people like me that have a business which would be valued at far higher than my kids could hope to pay the tax on. The value of a business does not = cash available for inheritance tax in many cases 

I assume it's no longer possible to just transfer the company to your children now?

That is something I have thought about but I have 6 kids, 2 of which work in the business the other 4 never will (through choice) I cannot work out a fair way to do that without diluting the shareholding. Im a 50% shareholder so if I spilt those between my kids and if there is a fall out at some point in the future, control of the business would be lost. For me protecting the future of the business and its employees are the most important thing. 3rd world problem I know but still a pain in the arse

If the other 50% of the company is held by someone outside of your family then you may find the Shareholders agreement stipulates what you can and can't do with your 50%. If you can transfer your shares, then perhaps look at setting up a separate Family Investment Company to hold your 50% stake. Your children can hold shares in the FIC without you losing control. You can also put in place provisions so the shares can only be passed to your bloodline so they are protected from fall-outs, divorce etc. Worth a discussion with your IFA about.