Another academy prospect poached

Athletico Charlton · September 13

lancashire lad said:

What is the point in having a successful academy if the system allows the best youngsters to be poached by the "big" clubs ?

It was notable that Steve Avory mentioned this in his recent interview (i.e. an increase in the number of lads poached).

Plaaayer · November 7

Another one poached.

Levi Rufus, u15 defender gone to Villa.

thickandthin63 · November 7

These kids dont look at the bigger picture,this lad is 15,I doubt he will get any where near their senior squad for 6-7 years,if your not good enough you are farmed out and probably forgotten.Prime example,Mason Burstow could have been part of our present set up,but is playing in league 1,will he ever play for Chelsea,not a chance.

fenaddick · November 7

The % of players who make it is incredibly low, I can’t begrudge a player or their family for making a financial decision at that age. The problem is that the system doesn’t compensate the clubs who do the early development well enough

ForeverAddickted · November 7

thickandthin63 said:

These kids dont look at the bigger picture,this lad is 15,I doubt he will get any where near their senior squad for 6-7 years,if your not good enough you are farmed out and probably forgotten.Prime example,Mason Burstow could have been part of our present set up,but is playing in league 1,will he ever play for Chelsea,not a chance.

But then they might never play for us either, look at Patrick Casey who had an excellent time up until U18 level and just hasn't been able to replicate in Senior Football the same that Micah Mbick has - Doesnt help either that the Premier League clubs will throw life changing money at these kids, so by leaving us they've got three chances

They'll make it as a Premier League player
They wont make it in the Premier League, but be established in the EFL
They don't make it at all, and have the life changing money

oohaahmortimer · November 7

exactly , oh poor old jermaine defoe should never have left ..

no one knows how development will go and guessing that leaving Charlton is bad is just that a complete guess

Chris_from_Sidcup · November 7

It works both ways though i guess. There are plenty of kids who get released from PL academies at 16/17/18 who then filter down to EFL clubs.

Ramsay and Leaburn were both at Chelsea. Lloyd Jones was at Liverpool. Carey was let go by Norwich when they were a PL yo-yo club. I think Konchesky and Shelvey both came to us from West ham.

bobmunro · November 7

ForeverAddickted said:

thickandthin63 said:

These kids dont look at the bigger picture,this lad is 15,I doubt he will get any where near their senior squad for 6-7 years,if your not good enough you are farmed out and probably forgotten.Prime example,Mason Burstow could have been part of our present set up,but is playing in league 1,will he ever play for Chelsea,not a chance.

But then they might never play for us either, look at Patrick Casey who had an excellent time up until U18 level and just hasn't been able to replicate in Senior Football the same that Micah Mbick has - Doesnt help either that the Premier League clubs will throw life changing money at these kids, so by leaving us they've got three chances
They'll make it as a Premier League player
They wont make it in the Premier League, but be established in the EFL
They don't make it at all, and have the life changing money

Not at 15 years of age. Scholars (16-18) can earn maybe £300 a week or thereabouts and can also get allowances of up to £40k a year but this is for things like accommodation, travel and so on - it is not a wage.

Bigger money can appear at 17 (the earliest a player can sign a pro-contract) so Levi Rufus will have to wait at least two years for any life changing money, assuming he makes the grade, which is a big assumption.

Probably better for him to stay with us, one of the best and most respected Academies in the country, until at least 17, prove himself at under 18 level, and then move for a pro-contract if his development has been maintained.

LargeAddick · November 7

thickandthin63 said:

These kids dont look at the bigger picture,this lad is 15,I doubt he will get any where near their senior squad for 6-7 years,if your not good enough you are farmed out and probably forgotten.Prime example,Mason Burstow could have been part of our present set up,but is playing in league 1,will he ever play for Chelsea,not a chance.

Doubt he’ll ever play for Chelsea. He’s on loan at Bolton from his parent club, Hull City.

Garrymanilow · November 7

bobmunro said:

ForeverAddickted said:

thickandthin63 said:

These kids dont look at the bigger picture,this lad is 15,I doubt he will get any where near their senior squad for 6-7 years,if your not good enough you are farmed out and probably forgotten.Prime example,Mason Burstow could have been part of our present set up,but is playing in league 1,will he ever play for Chelsea,not a chance.

But then they might never play for us either, look at Patrick Casey who had an excellent time up until U18 level and just hasn't been able to replicate in Senior Football the same that Micah Mbick has - Doesnt help either that the Premier League clubs will throw life changing money at these kids, so by leaving us they've got three chances
They'll make it as a Premier League player
They wont make it in the Premier League, but be established in the EFL
They don't make it at all, and have the life changing money

Not at 15 years of age. Scholars (16-18) can earn maybe £300 a week or thereabouts and can also get allowances of up to £40k a year but this is for things like accommodation, travel and so on - it is not a wage.

Bigger money can appear at 17 (the earliest a player can sign a pro-contract) so Levi Rufus will have to wait at least two years for any life changing money, assuming he makes the grade, which is a big assumption.

Probably better for him to stay with us, one of the best and most respected Academies in the country, until at least 17, prove himself at under 18 level, and then move for a pro-contract if his development has been maintained.

But then he will also get access to better facilities, more coaches and be able to see and occasionally train with far better players. I think Villa just spent £20m a few years ago redeveloping the academy training ground and built a small stadium for the kids to play in so if the money is about the same then they probably view the best way of developing as having access to the best facilities possible at his age. Maybe they feel he's more likely to make it at 17 this way, especially with the investment Villa have clearly made in luring him over. I wish we weren't losing academy players but I can see why you'd get a tour round a Premier League training ground with new facilities for youth players and be won over regardless of what they're offering to pay you.

Chris_from_Sidcup · November 7

thickandthin63 said:

These kids dont look at the bigger picture,this lad is 15,I doubt he will get any where near their senior squad for 6-7 years,if your not good enough you are farmed out and probably forgotten.Prime example,Mason Burstow could have been part of our present set up,but is playing in league 1,will he ever play for Chelsea,not a chance.

Chelsea sold him to Hull for 2m.

Diebythesword · November 7

Plaaayer said:

Another one poached.

Levi Rufus, u15 defender gone to Villa.

No relation to a certain convicted fraudster?

clive · November 7

Diebythesword said:

Plaaayer said:

Another one poached.

Levi Rufus, u15 defender gone to Villa.

No relation to a certain convicted fraudster?

Levi, In his genes, maybe.

Athletico Charlton · November 7

Dont know the kid but if he was that good he would go to a better academy than Villa and a more local one (Arsenal as one example). I reckon he is never heard of again and ends up somewhere in non league.

shine166 · November 7

We'll knick another one from league 2 next month and everyone will love it, works both ways.

Chris_from_Sidcup · November 7

Athletico Charlton said:

Do t know the kid but if he was that good he would go to a better academy than Villa and a more local one (Arsenal as one example). I reckon he is never heard of again and needs up somewhere in non league.

Villa are one of the best academies in the country. They won the U18 Premier league and the FA Youth cup last season.

Addick Addict · November 7

thickandthin63 said:

These kids dont look at the bigger picture,this lad is 15,I doubt he will get any where near their senior squad for 6-7 years,if your not good enough you are farmed out and probably forgotten.Prime example,Mason Burstow could have been part of our present set up,but is playing in league 1,will he ever play for Chelsea,not a chance.

Burstow came to is when he was 17 from Maidstone and did actually play twice for Chelsea. He was sold for £2m to Hull and made 31 appearances in the Championship last season. Prior to that he made 20 appearances for Sunderland in the Championship. He's now on loan at Bolton and has scored 7 times in 16 games this season.

So, we were responsible for two years of his development and we were handsomely rewarded for that with a rumoured payment of £1.5m. There is no guarantee whatsoever that he wouldn't be on loan in League 1 had he stayed with us. The difference is that he would have trained, in the interim, with better players at Chelsea, played more than 50 games at a level higher than we were and earned a hell of a lot more money too.

So I'm not sure that Burstow is an example of someone who was "poached" or would have done better had he stayed. I'm sure there are examples of those that might have done so and where we should have received more but he isn't one of them.

Scoham · November 7

shine166 said:

We'll knick another one from league 2 next month and everyone will love it, works both ways.

In the first team maybe, but I don’t remember hearing of many of our youth players being poached from the academies of smaller clubs.

ForeverAddickted · November 7

shine166 said:

We'll knick another one from league 2 next month and everyone will love it, works both ways.

Very true as well, I mean we've just signed that lad from Dartford's Academy

Radostanradical · November 7

Addick Addict said:

thickandthin63 said:

These kids dont look at the bigger picture,this lad is 15,I doubt he will get any where near their senior squad for 6-7 years,if your not good enough you are farmed out and probably forgotten.Prime example,Mason Burstow could have been part of our present set up,but is playing in league 1,will he ever play for Chelsea,not a chance.

Burstow came to is when he was 17 from Maidstone and did actually play twice for Chelsea. He was sold for £2m to Hull and made 31 appearances in the Championship last season. Prior to that he made 20 appearances for Sunderland in the Championship. He's now on loan at Bolton and has scored 7 times in 16 games this season.

So, we were responsible for two years of his development and we were handsomely rewarded for that with a rumoured payment of £1.5m. There is no guarantee whatsoever that he wouldn't be on loan in League 1 had he stayed with us. The difference is that he would have trained, in the interim, with better players at Chelsea, played more than 50 games at a level higher than we were and earned a hell of a lot more money too.

So I'm not sure that Burstow is an example of someone who was "poached" or would have done better had he stayed. I'm sure there are examples of those that might have done so and where we should have received more but he isn't one of them.

I thought Burstow was from welling ?

charltonkeston · November 7

Unfortunately we are a selling club like most and that translates down to the academy players. We are, compared to Villa, a small club there to be plundered. Villa did this to us previously with a bloody good player, Samuel I think and we were then may be a little higher in the food chain. As a club the football world has moved on rapidly since we were in the top flight, without us to a large extent.
Also if a young player is at a higher level club they have somewhere to fall from and to, the lower down you go the opportunities may be limited.

letthegoodtimesroll · November 7

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Athletico Charlton said:

Do t know the kid but if he was that good he would go to a better academy than Villa and a more local one (Arsenal as one example). I reckon he is never heard of again and needs up somewhere in non league.

Villa are one of the best academies in the country. They won the U18 Premier league and the FA Youth cup last season.

Nice achievement. Our academy kids won promotion from L1 to the Championship via Wembley last season…this year they and a few others will be part of a squad that just could be challenging for promotion to the PL, or at least giving it a good go.

Addick Addict · November 7

Radostanradical said:

Addick Addict said:

thickandthin63 said:

These kids dont look at the bigger picture,this lad is 15,I doubt he will get any where near their senior squad for 6-7 years,if your not good enough you are farmed out and probably forgotten.Prime example,Mason Burstow could have been part of our present set up,but is playing in league 1,will he ever play for Chelsea,not a chance.

Burstow came to is when he was 17 from Maidstone and did actually play twice for Chelsea. He was sold for £2m to Hull and made 31 appearances in the Championship last season. Prior to that he made 20 appearances for Sunderland in the Championship. He's now on loan at Bolton and has scored 7 times in 16 games this season.

So, we were responsible for two years of his development and we were handsomely rewarded for that with a rumoured payment of £1.5m. There is no guarantee whatsoever that he wouldn't be on loan in League 1 had he stayed with us. The difference is that he would have trained, in the interim, with better players at Chelsea, played more than 50 games at a level higher than we were and earned a hell of a lot more money too.

So I'm not sure that Burstow is an example of someone who was "poached" or would have done better had he stayed. I'm sure there are examples of those that might have done so and where we should have received more but he isn't one of them.

I thought Burstow was from welling ?

He was at Welling but then went to Maidstone who we signed him from. He had periods at Norwich and Chelsea prior to that.

PaddyP17 · November 7

The biggest clubs will have an on-site school to further education (to prepare academy prospects for like in case they don't make it, which is a reality of the game), the very best in terms of pastoral care (theoretically), and other off-pitch needs provided for that clubs our size/on our budget just can't keep up with.

It's not about kids seeing "the bigger picture" solely from a football standpoint.

Athletico Charlton · November 8

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Athletico Charlton said:

Do t know the kid but if he was that good he would go to a better academy than Villa and a more local one (Arsenal as one example). I reckon he is never heard of again and needs up somewhere in non league.

Villa are one of the best academies in the country. They won the U18 Premier league and the FA Youth cup last season.

Yep and I am sure every 15 yr old Londoner dreamed of going to the Midlands away from friends and family to play for a half decent academy.
My point is, if he was decent he would go to Arsenal or Chelsea and stay at home - not move half way across the country to get his move. Good luck to him on £300pm YTS terms, but this stinks of greedy parents to me, desperate for success and moving their kid to somewhere he will probably flop.

Starinnaddick · November 8

I can't help thinking there was some back door incentive being offered.

Henry Irving · November 8

Scoham said:

shine166 said:

We'll knick another one from league 2 next month and everyone will love it, works both ways.

In the first team maybe, but I don’t remember hearing of many of our youth players being poached from the academies of smaller clubs.

Couple of AFC Wimbledon players signed this summer but suspect they had been released

Diebythesword said:

Plaaayer said:

Another one poached.

Levi Rufus, u15 defender gone to Villa.

No relation to a certain convicted fraudster?

His son.

SuedeAdidas · November 8

Starinnaddick said:

I can't help thinking there was some back door incentive being offered.

AddicksAddict · November 8

bobmunro said:

ForeverAddickted said:

thickandthin63 said:

These kids dont look at the bigger picture,this lad is 15,I doubt he will get any where near their senior squad for 6-7 years,if your not good enough you are farmed out and probably forgotten.Prime example,Mason Burstow could have been part of our present set up,but is playing in league 1,will he ever play for Chelsea,not a chance.

But then they might never play for us either, look at Patrick Casey who had an excellent time up until U18 level and just hasn't been able to replicate in Senior Football the same that Micah Mbick has - Doesnt help either that the Premier League clubs will throw life changing money at these kids, so by leaving us they've got three chances
They'll make it as a Premier League player
They wont make it in the Premier League, but be established in the EFL
They don't make it at all, and have the life changing money

Not at 15 years of age. Scholars (16-18) can earn maybe £300 a week or thereabouts and can also get allowances of up to £40k a year but this is for things like accommodation, travel and so on - it is not a wage.

Bigger money can appear at 17 (the earliest a player can sign a pro-contract) so Levi Rufus will have to wait at least two years for any life changing money, assuming he makes the grade, which is a big assumption.

Probably better for him to stay with us, one of the best and most respected Academies in the country, until at least 17, prove himself at under 18 level, and then move for a pro-contract if his development has been maintained.

Plus, the club will buy his parents a five bedroom mansion in Aston.

So that’s another £500 to factor in.

Gisappointed · November 8

Why is there a 17 age limit on signing a contract? I'm pretty sure it is a football thing, not Employment Law. If we had these kids on contract, we couldn't stop them being poached but might circumvent the ridiculous EPPP compensation rules.

Another academy prospect poached

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