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++Charlie Kelman signs on a 4 year deal++

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  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,123
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    raytreacy said:
    I am all for giving players a chance. But let us not beat about the bush. Kelman has been poor so far. He doesn’t suit the way we play so it is not totally his fault. Leaburn and Oloafe are more suited. I can see why QPR didn’t rate him.
    Why does Jones keep starting him then? He must be doing something right.
    I think Jones just prefers the plan of TC/Kelman starting then Tanto/Leaburn to come on when defences are a bit tired. It's working so far so he probably doesn't want to change it and therefore who can question it.

    Kelman is therefore only really starting because in that plan there is no one else, and when Godden is fit he will likely start instead. Let's be honest would our results look much different if we'd kept Kanu and we were starting him instead? I don't think so. 5 of our 7 goals have come when Kelman isn't on the pitch.

    That said, i do think he needs better service and i'm not going to slate him. I said in an earlier post that i feel a bit sorry for the guy, he just needs a simple chance to fall his way, or even score a penalty, just anything so he can get going.
    The same Kanu we’ve loaned out to League TWO? 
    Yes i'm aware of that. Point being Kelman has done nothing all season and isn't getting any service or chances.

    Which of our results so far do you think would have been different had we not had Kelman out there, and we'd played Kanu instead? I'm inclined to think we'd be no worse off.
    The fact that one player was loaned out to league two whilst the other was signed for a significant fee suggests Jones would disagree that there’d be no difference. 
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,656
    At some point if both Kelman and Campbell don’t start chipping in with goals then I don’t think Jones will have any other option than to freshen things up. Quite what return or lack of return triggers that I don’t know but the point remains. We’re what, 12.5% of the season ? What would we hope our strikers reaching by this point ? I’d say at least one and probably two. They both need a goal. 
  • NabySarr
    NabySarr Posts: 4,348
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    At some point if both Kelman and Campbell don’t start chipping in with goals then I don’t think Jones will have any other option than to freshen things up. Quite what return or lack of return triggers that I don’t know but the point remains. We’re what, 12.5% of the season ? What would we hope our strikers reaching by this point ? I’d say at least one and probably two. They both need a goal. 
    I don’t think Jones will care much as long as the team are playing well. Maybe it’s more of an issue with Kelman, but TC didn’t score at the start of last season and still started most games because he still contributes a lot without goals 
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,656
    NabySarr said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    At some point if both Kelman and Campbell don’t start chipping in with goals then I don’t think Jones will have any other option than to freshen things up. Quite what return or lack of return triggers that I don’t know but the point remains. We’re what, 12.5% of the season ? What would we hope our strikers reaching by this point ? I’d say at least one and probably two. They both need a goal. 
    I don’t think Jones will care much as long as the team are playing well. Maybe it’s more of an issue with Kelman, but TC didn’t score at the start of last season and still started most games because he still contributes a lot without goals 
    I think that’s a fair point but not sure it’s fair on Olaofe or Leaburn though. Pressing and chasing is very important but eventually end product is I’d suggest important too. 
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,123
    NabySarr said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    At some point if both Kelman and Campbell don’t start chipping in with goals then I don’t think Jones will have any other option than to freshen things up. Quite what return or lack of return triggers that I don’t know but the point remains. We’re what, 12.5% of the season ? What would we hope our strikers reaching by this point ? I’d say at least one and probably two. They both need a goal. 
    I don’t think Jones will care much as long as the team are playing well. Maybe it’s more of an issue with Kelman, but TC didn’t score at the start of last season and still started most games because he still contributes a lot without goals 
    100% this. As long as the game plan is working and we’re winning games, I’m not so sure why it matters who’s scoring, TC has been our key to getting up the pitch and relieving pressure. 
  • NabySarr
    NabySarr Posts: 4,348
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    NabySarr said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    At some point if both Kelman and Campbell don’t start chipping in with goals then I don’t think Jones will have any other option than to freshen things up. Quite what return or lack of return triggers that I don’t know but the point remains. We’re what, 12.5% of the season ? What would we hope our strikers reaching by this point ? I’d say at least one and probably two. They both need a goal. 
    I don’t think Jones will care much as long as the team are playing well. Maybe it’s more of an issue with Kelman, but TC didn’t score at the start of last season and still started most games because he still contributes a lot without goals 
    I think that’s a fair point but not sure it’s fair on Olaofe or Leaburn though. Pressing and chasing is very important but eventually end product is I’d suggest important too. 
    Yes I think one of Leaburn or Olaofe should come in for Kelman, I’d be surprised if TC loses his spot though. Maybe tomorrow we will see changes 
  • Bedsaddick
    Bedsaddick Posts: 24,774
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    At some point if both Kelman and Campbell don’t start chipping in with goals then I don’t think Jones will have any other option than to freshen things up. Quite what return or lack of return triggers that I don’t know but the point remains. We’re what, 12.5% of the season ? What would we hope our strikers reaching by this point ? I’d say at least one and probably two. They both need a goal. 
    At least TC looks like he threatens to score and causes defenders to have kittens . Kelman has looked so off the pace . I’d love him to start scoring but what is it doing to the morale of Tanto and Leaburn if they aren’t getting a start and he’s firing blanks . Also we are far more attacking in the last twenty minutes of games and Kelman coming off the bench could benefit from that . 
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,960
    Chunes said:
    I know we talk about tiring defenders out and bringing on people to punish them, but I'm sure the players on the bench want to be starting games. Tanto has said as much. If he comes off the bench and puts in a top performance, after replacing someone who was struggling, then in his mind, he should have earned the chance to start. Same with Leaburn replacing Kelman. I mean, what more can they do? 
    Plus IF the easiest time to score (according to the comments above) is the last 30 minutes against tiring defenders, maybe Kelman should WANT to be on the bench. 

    Let Tanto or Miles work hard for 60 minutes, then come on and score. That's how it works?
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,091
    How much did we pay for Kelman? I have always thought we paid a flat 3.5m.

    However i've seen a few places saying we paid 3.5m rising to 5m with add ons. Is that true?
  • CAFCTrev
    CAFCTrev Posts: 6,002
    Is Bonne still available?

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  • Crispywood
    Crispywood Posts: 693
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    How much did we pay for Kelman? I have always thought we paid a flat 3.5m.

    However i've seen a few places saying we paid 3.5m rising to 5m with add ons. Is that true?
    Fabricio Romano reported it as 3.5M rising to 5M. Jones had already come out in a post match and basically said it wasn’t that much. Cawley reported it as at least 3M with a 20% profit sell on. So you would assume it will be around 3M-4M with addons included. Either way far too much at present 
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,091
    Crispywood said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    How much did we pay for Kelman? I have always thought we paid a flat 3.5m.

    However i've seen a few places saying we paid 3.5m rising to 5m with add ons. Is that true?
    Fabricio Romano reported it as 3.5M rising to 5M. Jones had already come out in a post match and basically said it wasn’t that much. Cawley reported it as at least 3M with a 20% profit sell on. So you would assume it will be around 3M-4M with addons included. Either way far too much at present 
    Ah ok, well that makes sense then as if Fabrizio posted that i guess that's why a lot of places report it as fact. But i thought it was a 3.5m flat fee (technically the 20% sell on is currently irrelevant).
  • CafcSCP
    CafcSCP Posts: 1,466
    He needs Tanto bullying and running next to him.
    i think he will be fine but at the moment it’s like playing with 10.5 men rather than than 11
  • SteveACS
    SteveACS Posts: 378
    edited October 2
    CafcSCP said:
    He needs Tanto bullying and running next to him.
    i think he will be fine but at the moment it’s like playing with 10.5 men rather than than 11
    I disagree. The only other players I've seen take a ball down like the one Charlie did in the lead up to the goal against Derby, are Godden and Hylton.

    I love both Tanto and Leaburn, but if that ball had gone to them, the likelihood is the ball would have bounced about 10 yards off them...

    A sublime bit of skill.

    Hasn't NJ won you around yet? He watches the players train everyday. Don't you think he might have a better insight than you, in the abilities of his players?
  • RonnieMoore
    RonnieMoore Posts: 4,529
    NabySarr said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    NabySarr said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    At some point if both Kelman and Campbell don’t start chipping in with goals then I don’t think Jones will have any other option than to freshen things up. Quite what return or lack of return triggers that I don’t know but the point remains. We’re what, 12.5% of the season ? What would we hope our strikers reaching by this point ? I’d say at least one and probably two. They both need a goal. 
    I don’t think Jones will care much as long as the team are playing well. Maybe it’s more of an issue with Kelman, but TC didn’t score at the start of last season and still started most games because he still contributes a lot without goals 
    I think that’s a fair point but not sure it’s fair on Olaofe or Leaburn though. Pressing and chasing is very important but eventually end product is I’d suggest important too. 
    Yes I think one of Leaburn or Olaofe should come in for Kelman, I’d be surprised if TC loses his spot though. Maybe tomorrow we will see changes 
    Why should Kelman be dropped when Campbell the one not creating anything for anyone .. Campbell at this time is the problem perhaps he needs a complete break , he looks yard slower and has clearly lost that zip… 
  • SteveACS
    SteveACS Posts: 378
    RonnieMoore said:
    NabySarr said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    NabySarr said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    At some point if both Kelman and Campbell don’t start chipping in with goals then I don’t think Jones will have any other option than to freshen things up. Quite what return or lack of return triggers that I don’t know but the point remains. We’re what, 12.5% of the season ? What would we hope our strikers reaching by this point ? I’d say at least one and probably two. They both need a goal. 
    I don’t think Jones will care much as long as the team are playing well. Maybe it’s more of an issue with Kelman, but TC didn’t score at the start of last season and still started most games because he still contributes a lot without goals 
    I think that’s a fair point but not sure it’s fair on Olaofe or Leaburn though. Pressing and chasing is very important but eventually end product is I’d suggest important too. 
    Yes I think one of Leaburn or Olaofe should come in for Kelman, I’d be surprised if TC loses his spot though. Maybe tomorrow we will see changes 
    Why should Kelman be dropped when Campbell the one not creating anything for anyone .. Campbell at this time is the problem perhaps he needs a complete break , he looks yard slower and has clearly lost that zip… 
    Except, of course, TC was also involved with the goal v. Derby...
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,728
    SteveACS said:
    RonnieMoore said:
    NabySarr said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    NabySarr said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    At some point if both Kelman and Campbell don’t start chipping in with goals then I don’t think Jones will have any other option than to freshen things up. Quite what return or lack of return triggers that I don’t know but the point remains. We’re what, 12.5% of the season ? What would we hope our strikers reaching by this point ? I’d say at least one and probably two. They both need a goal. 
    I don’t think Jones will care much as long as the team are playing well. Maybe it’s more of an issue with Kelman, but TC didn’t score at the start of last season and still started most games because he still contributes a lot without goals 
    I think that’s a fair point but not sure it’s fair on Olaofe or Leaburn though. Pressing and chasing is very important but eventually end product is I’d suggest important too. 
    Yes I think one of Leaburn or Olaofe should come in for Kelman, I’d be surprised if TC loses his spot though. Maybe tomorrow we will see changes 
    Why should Kelman be dropped when Campbell the one not creating anything for anyone .. Campbell at this time is the problem perhaps he needs a complete break , he looks yard slower and has clearly lost that zip… 
    Except, of course, TC was also involved with the goal v. Derby...
    Dont feel the troll
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,829
    QPR fans are vile!


  • Solidgone
    Solidgone Posts: 10,223
    The lad desperately needs that first goal but has had zero opportunities so far. Maybe coming on on 60 min might give him more chances? 

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  • 995632
    995632 Posts: 319
    Bedsaddick said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    At some point if both Kelman and Campbell don’t start chipping in with goals then I don’t think Jones will have any other option than to freshen things up. Quite what return or lack of return triggers that I don’t know but the point remains. We’re what, 12.5% of the season ? What would we hope our strikers reaching by this point ? I’d say at least one and probably two. They both need a goal. 
    At least TC looks like he threatens to score and causes defenders to have kittens . Kelman has looked so off the pace . I’d love him to start scoring but what is it doing to the morale of Tanto and Leaburn if they aren’t getting a start and he’s firing blanks . Also we are far more attacking in the last twenty minutes of games and Kelman coming off the bench could benefit from that . 
    Not sure 1 shot on target out of 16 in total constitutes "threatening to score" 
  • Bedsaddick
    Bedsaddick Posts: 24,774
    Solidgone said:
    The lad desperately needs that first goal but has had zero opportunities so far. Maybe coming on on 60 min might give him more chances? 
    It’ll come soon don’t you worry. 
  • Crispywood
    Crispywood Posts: 693
    Bedsaddick said:
    Solidgone said:
    The lad desperately needs that first goal but has had zero opportunities so far. Maybe coming on on 60 min might give him more chances? 
    It’ll come soon don’t you worry. 
    We’ve been saying that since Watford 
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,403
    edited October 3
    Callumcafc said:
    Our league record when Charlie Kelman has started:

    W3 D3 L0

    Our league record when Charlie Kelman has come off the bench:

    W0 D0 L2
    I find stats like these very misleading. It's rarely right to suggest that one player has that much influence on a result. Especially when they are decided by 22 men, 2 managers and 4 officials. I don't think Kelman's presence or absence has defined the bulk of these, and especially any of our losses. 
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,829
    Chunes said:
    Callumcafc said:
    Our league record when Charlie Kelman has started:

    W3 D3 L0

    Our league record when Charlie Kelman has come off the bench:

    W0 D0 L2
    I find stats like these very misleading. It's rarely right to suggest that one player has that much influence on a result. Especially when they are decided by 22 men, 2 managers and 4 officials. I don't think Kelman's presence or absence has defined the bulk of these, and especially any of our losses. 
    If there’s any argument to be made based on it, it’s probably that starting Kelman is working so why change it?

    But I agree it’s a bit tenuous. Just thought it was an interesting quirk and probably partly explains why Jones is sticking with it. He’s shown us before that he doesn’t like changing a team when they’re getting results unless he has to.
  • DessieValley
    DessieValley Posts: 340
    For me he showed enough against Derby to make me think he will come good. I've not checked the stats, but would imagine Orient rarely substituted him. I have a feeling that if he stayed on the pitch for longer than 60 minutes, when games are getting stretched, he will nick a goal.
  • SELR_addicks
    SELR_addicks Posts: 15,492
    Callumcafc said:
    Our league record when Charlie Kelman has started:

    W3 D3 L0

    Our league record when Charlie Kelman has come off the bench:

    W0 D0 L2
    What are the stats from the duration Kelman is on the pitch?
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,728
    edited October 4
    SELR_addicks said:
    Callumcafc said:
    Our league record when Charlie Kelman has started:

    W3 D3 L0

    Our league record when Charlie Kelman has come off the bench:

    W0 D0 L2
    What are the stats from the duration Kelman is on the pitch?
    W3 - D3 - L1

    We were drawing with Watford, Bristol City, and Sheff Utd when he went off.

    We were beating Millwall, Blackburn and Derby

    We were 1-1 when he came on against QPR
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,829
    Copying from the match thread where it will get lost…




    Kelman up front with a big man doesn’t work in this formation / system unfortunately. Preston do not respect him nearly as much as they did Tyreece.

    Allowed Small to get forward. And Small scores.

    Kelman’s going to have to continue working on himself as the target up top. Because we won’t do that again.
  • Exiled_Addick
    Exiled_Addick Posts: 17,209
    edited October 4
    To be fair, he did the holdup piece well today. Was working the right channel well, unlucky to have a couple of dangerous looking crosses blocked, had some joy with his back to goal, won a few headers too. Not dissimilar to what we saw from Godden last year 

    What he hasn’t managed to do yet is start one of those moves and then get himself into the box to finish the move. 

    I still believe it will happen for him. Thought he was one of our best players today. 

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