I thought Kelman worked his nuts off yesterday and paved the way for Tanto and Miles to come on and take advantage. Whilst it’s not broken I think we should stick with him from the start although I’d like to see him with Tanto in place of TC who I don’t think is offering enough at the moment.
Back to Charlie, I can’t remember him missing a chance where I think he should have finished that, in fact we haven’t been creating many chances for him. Others, like Burke yesterday, have missed chances where if they had fallen to Charlie I’m sure he would have tucked them away. It’s certainly far, far too early to write him off and I think he’ll come good sooner rather than later.
I really can’t get people saying this when TC does more in 1 game than Kelman has done all season. If he’s not doing enough then how is Kelman?
Yea, have to agree. Kelman working his nuts off and tc not offering enough makes no sense from what ive seen.
However it's working at the moment starting him and bringing the game changers Leaburn and Tanto off the bench so if I was jonesy I'd keep doing the same.
lets be honest - if u didn't know he'd scored 26? goals last year and if we hadn't paid £3.5m? for him, he wouldn't be starting, but we know he took time to get going last year and think i've seen it written that he's possibly a player that needs to be persevered with and he them comes good, so i can see why NJ is starting him - its a strange one though because every other NJ signing is predominantly an athlete / has some sort of physical attribute - i really wouldn't like to call how this will pan out but i think he will come good - mendonca didn't really have a physical presence but he knew where the net was
Watching him yesterday he really doesn’t seem to be getting in position to accept a chance. A few times he seemed to be hanging back behind a defender instead of trying to get across, not anticipating where the ball would be delivered. And a couple of runs he did make he paused and ended up not getting there. Maybe all down to lacking a bit of confidence
Watching him yesterday he really doesn’t seem to be getting in position to accept a chance. A few times he seemed to be hanging back behind a defender instead of trying to get across, not anticipating where the ball would be delivered. And a couple of runs he did make he paused and ended up not getting there. Maybe all down to lacking a bit of confidence
The lad really needs a blasted goal now to give him a boost. There's a decent poacher in there. If he finds his scoring boots, I dare dream of a top half finish.
I think comparing him to Bree or Burke isn't exactly fair, both far more experienced players who are proven at a higher level, just another day at the office for those 2, I suspect they'll never struggle to integrate into a side so long as they are fit to play.
Kelman has got his first big move with a bit of pressure on his shoulders, high expectations and is consistently playing at his highest level ever. This is a learning curve for him, and I expect Nathan Jones was prepared for this.
Has he been underwhelming so far? Yes, definitely
Has he had the chance to show what he is capable of as a striker yet? Not really.
Some strikers hit the ground running, others take time. I still think he would really benefit playing with Leaburn or Tanto, particularly Tanto who was creating loads of opportunities for us (was the reason why Carey and Bree found shooting opportunities)
The only thing that concerns me, is his character. I am not saying is he lazy, or has a bad attitude or anything like that, but he seems quite a shy character, and lacking a bit of belief.
May was a pest and looked so lively, Lyle (as much of a w*nker as he was) had a real attitude about him, Charlie looks like he needs an arm round his shoulder at present, whereas those type of players we have had in May & Lyle as examples, were personality monsters.
Ultimately I think he himself knows there is a certain expectation cause of his goal record and price tag, but he can't control that.
What he can control is his work rates, desire and willingness to get himself in the right spots. So long as he doesn't go hiding, I will back him.
I am desperate for him to score, cause I firmly believe once he finds his rhythm, he won't stop. You can tell he is a confidence player and just needs to get that belief/swagger he had at Orient.
100% he is a good player. Don't understand why people who can barely play think they can judge. I honestly think he could become talismanic when he gets that first goal. Just pray he doesn't read this forum. Leaburn too as he's clearly lazy and doesn't care as he isn't going around showing "passion" like Joey Barton. Ugh.
I agree he’s a good player but suggesting people can’t have an opinion is farcical .
So many apologists on here. Probably the same who stood up for Ahadme.
For the record the desired Olaofe and Kelman partnership was abysmal at Cambridge. Still I suppose Charlie was still getting up to speed, which curiously hasn't been a problem for Bree and Burke.
Also if defenders tire so much, then why are they not replaced as much as midfielders or strikers?
I'm not saying he won't come good but surely either of the other two subs should start?
We're 7 games in to the season!
If you're not standing up for any of our players already, then you're the problem, not them.
So many apologists on here. Probably the same who stood up for Ahadme.
For the record the desired Olaofe and Kelman partnership was abysmal at Cambridge. Still I suppose Charlie was still getting up to speed, which curiously hasn't been a problem for Bree and Burke.
Also if defenders tire so much, then why are they not replaced as much as midfielders or strikers?
I'm not saying he won't come good but surely either of the other two subs should start?
We're 7 games in to the season!
If you're not standing up for any of our players already, then you're the problem, not them.
Who said I'm not standing up for him? He plays for Charlton.
I'm saying we are a better team when either Olaofe or Leaburn are playing instead of Kelman. They deserve to be starting over him.
I am all for giving players a chance. But let us not beat about the bush. Kelman has been poor so far. He doesn’t suit the way we play so it is not totally his fault. Leaburn and Oloafe are more suited. I can see why QPR didn’t rate him.
I think comparing him to Bree or Burke isn't exactly fair, both far more experienced players who are proven at a higher level, just another day at the office for those 2, I suspect they'll never struggle to integrate into a side so long as they are fit to play.
Kelman has got his first big move with a bit of pressure on his shoulders, high expectations and is consistently playing at his highest level ever. This is a learning curve for him, and I expect Nathan Jones was prepared for this.
Has he been underwhelming so far? Yes, definitely
Has he had the chance to show what he is capable of as a striker yet? Not really.
Some strikers hit the ground running, others take time. I still think he would really benefit playing with Leaburn or Tanto, particularly Tanto who was creating loads of opportunities for us (was the reason why Carey and Bree found shooting opportunities)
The only thing that concerns me, is his character. I am not saying is he lazy, or has a bad attitude or anything like that, but he seems quite a shy character, and lacking a bit of belief.
May was a pest and looked so lively, Lyle (as much of a w*nker as he was) had a real attitude about him, Charlie looks like he needs an arm round his shoulder at present, whereas those type of players we have had in May & Lyle as examples, were personality monsters.
Of course he has, he's played most games this season.
He needs to either gamble a little more or be more of a pest.
Hope he gets a goal soon. If not, you could ask what Kelman offers up front in this system that Knibbs couldn't offer, especially with his athleticism and pressing.
I think comparing him to Bree or Burke isn't exactly fair, both far more experienced players who are proven at a higher level, just another day at the office for those 2, I suspect they'll never struggle to integrate into a side so long as they are fit to play.
Kelman has got his first big move with a bit of pressure on his shoulders, high expectations and is consistently playing at his highest level ever. This is a learning curve for him, and I expect Nathan Jones was prepared for this.
Has he been underwhelming so far? Yes, definitely
Has he had the chance to show what he is capable of as a striker yet? Not really.
Some strikers hit the ground running, others take time. I still think he would really benefit playing with Leaburn or Tanto, particularly Tanto who was creating loads of opportunities for us (was the reason why Carey and Bree found shooting opportunities)
The only thing that concerns me, is his character. I am not saying is he lazy, or has a bad attitude or anything like that, but he seems quite a shy character, and lacking a bit of belief.
May was a pest and looked so lively, Lyle (as much of a w*nker as he was) had a real attitude about him, Charlie looks like he needs an arm round his shoulder at present, whereas those type of players we have had in May & Lyle as examples, were personality monsters.
Of course he has, he's played most games this season.
Can you remind me of an actual chance he has missed? He is feeding off scraps. Give him a proper chance and he’ll stick it away. If he starts missing good chances then that is when I’ll become concerned, not now.
I think comparing him to Bree or Burke isn't exactly fair, both far more experienced players who are proven at a higher level, just another day at the office for those 2, I suspect they'll never struggle to integrate into a side so long as they are fit to play.
Kelman has got his first big move with a bit of pressure on his shoulders, high expectations and is consistently playing at his highest level ever. This is a learning curve for him, and I expect Nathan Jones was prepared for this.
Has he been underwhelming so far? Yes, definitely
Has he had the chance to show what he is capable of as a striker yet? Not really.
Some strikers hit the ground running, others take time. I still think he would really benefit playing with Leaburn or Tanto, particularly Tanto who was creating loads of opportunities for us (was the reason why Carey and Bree found shooting opportunities)
The only thing that concerns me, is his character. I am not saying is he lazy, or has a bad attitude or anything like that, but he seems quite a shy character, and lacking a bit of belief.
May was a pest and looked so lively, Lyle (as much of a w*nker as he was) had a real attitude about him, Charlie looks like he needs an arm round his shoulder at present, whereas those type of players we have had in May & Lyle as examples, were personality monsters.
Of course he has, he's played most games this season.
Can you remind me of an actual chance he has missed? He is feeding off scraps. Give him a proper chance and he’ll stick it away. If he starts missing good chances then that is when I’ll become concerned, not now.
I don’t think he’s blameless in the lack of chances though, some of his positioning has been poor. Hopefully it will come as he builds chemistry with the team
He needs to either gamble a little more or be more of a pest.
Hope he gets a goal soon. If not, you could ask what Kelman offers up front in this system that Knibbs couldn't offer, especially with his athleticism and pressing.
I am all for giving players a chance. But let us not beat about the bush. Kelman has been poor so far. He doesn’t suit the way we play so it is not totally his fault. Leaburn and Oloafe are more suited. I can see why QPR didn’t rate him.
Why does Jones keep starting him then? He must be doing something right.
I am all for giving players a chance. But let us not beat about the bush. Kelman has been poor so far. He doesn’t suit the way we play so it is not totally his fault. Leaburn and Oloafe are more suited. I can see why QPR didn’t rate him.
Why does Jones keep starting him then? He must be doing something right.
I think Jones just prefers the plan of TC/Kelman starting then Tanto/Leaburn to come on when defences are a bit tired. It's working so far so he probably doesn't want to change it and therefore who can question it.
Kelman is therefore only really starting because in that plan there is no one else, and when Godden is fit he will likely start instead. Let's be honest would our results look much different if we'd kept Kanu and we were starting him instead? I don't think so. 5 of our 7 goals have come when Kelman isn't on the pitch.
That said, i do think he needs better service and i'm not going to slate him. I said in an earlier post that i feel a bit sorry for the guy, he just needs a simple chance to fall his way, or even score a penalty, just anything so he can get going.
We’re seventh in the league and with a little luck it could have been even better. That’s the first thing to celebrate. The way Jones sets us up I doubt we’ll ever be prolific. Top strikers in The Championship cost a fortune and that’s an option we probably won’t have or you go with top league One strikers and pray. Kelman scored some cracking goals last season and he’s not forgotten how to do it. The step up from League One to where we are is going to take him time to adjust and so is the transition from how Orient played to how Jones wants to play. It’s going to take him time. FWIW I think he’ll get there. Having said that the longer his goal drought continues the harder it’s going to become. Expectation and confidence will be very much on his mind. He needs a goal. Any goal to relieve the pressure. Eventually working you nuts off and causing problems won’t be enough. Front players have to score goals. It’s very similar to the Tyreece situation. He needs to score to justify his place. I’d say that if we had a top Championship striker we’d even be in with a chance of knocking on the top six. Currently we don’t and I guess a safe finish is very very acceptable.
I think comparing him to Bree or Burke isn't exactly fair, both far more experienced players who are proven at a higher level, just another day at the office for those 2, I suspect they'll never struggle to integrate into a side so long as they are fit to play.
Kelman has got his first big move with a bit of pressure on his shoulders, high expectations and is consistently playing at his highest level ever. This is a learning curve for him, and I expect Nathan Jones was prepared for this.
Has he been underwhelming so far? Yes, definitely
Has he had the chance to show what he is capable of as a striker yet? Not really.
Some strikers hit the ground running, others take time. I still think he would really benefit playing with Leaburn or Tanto, particularly Tanto who was creating loads of opportunities for us (was the reason why Carey and Bree found shooting opportunities)
The only thing that concerns me, is his character. I am not saying is he lazy, or has a bad attitude or anything like that, but he seems quite a shy character, and lacking a bit of belief.
May was a pest and looked so lively, Lyle (as much of a w*nker as he was) had a real attitude about him, Charlie looks like he needs an arm round his shoulder at present, whereas those type of players we have had in May & Lyle as examples, were personality monsters.
Of course he has, he's played most games this season.
Can you remind me of an actual chance he has missed? He is feeding off scraps. Give him a proper chance and he’ll stick it away. If he starts missing good chances then that is when I’ll become concerned, not now.
It's not just about the chances you've had or not had though, it's the chances you create yourself, which have been zero. Compare that to Tanto who has had much less game time and scored and assisted. That isn't down to luck.
None of our strikers have looked that good when starting. Campbell the most effective but not much acutal end product from any of them so far and Leaburn has started a couple, Tanto in the cup too. I think it's just the way we are set up to play at the moment. Someone said earlier on, and I agree, that none of the strikers for the opposition teams have played that well either.
I am all for giving players a chance. But let us not beat about the bush. Kelman has been poor so far. He doesn’t suit the way we play so it is not totally his fault. Leaburn and Oloafe are more suited. I can see why QPR didn’t rate him.
Why does Jones keep starting him then? He must be doing something right.
I think Jones just prefers the plan of TC/Kelman starting then Tanto/Leaburn to come on when defences are a bit tired. It's working so far so he probably doesn't want to change it and therefore who can question it.
Kelman is therefore only really starting because in that plan there is no one else, and when Godden is fit he will likely start instead. Let's be honest would our results look much different if we'd kept Kanu and we were starting him instead? I don't think so. 5 of our 7 goals have come when Kelman isn't on the pitch.
That said, i do think he needs better service and i'm not going to slate him. I said in an earlier post that i feel a bit sorry for the guy, he just needs a simple chance to fall his way, or even score a penalty, just anything so he can get going.
I am all for giving players a chance. But let us not beat about the bush. Kelman has been poor so far. He doesn’t suit the way we play so it is not totally his fault. Leaburn and Oloafe are more suited. I can see why QPR didn’t rate him.
Why does Jones keep starting him then? He must be doing something right.
I think Jones just prefers the plan of TC/Kelman starting then Tanto/Leaburn to come on when defences are a bit tired. It's working so far so he probably doesn't want to change it and therefore who can question it.
Kelman is therefore only really starting because in that plan there is no one else, and when Godden is fit he will likely start instead. Let's be honest would our results look much different if we'd kept Kanu and we were starting him instead? I don't think so. 5 of our 7 goals have come when Kelman isn't on the pitch.
That said, i do think he needs better service and i'm not going to slate him. I said in an earlier post that i feel a bit sorry for the guy, he just needs a simple chance to fall his way, or even score a penalty, just anything so he can get going.
The same Kanu we’ve loaned out to League TWO?
Yes i'm aware of that. Point being Kelman has done nothing all season and isn't getting any service or chances.
Which of our results so far do you think would have been different had we not had Kelman out there, and we'd played Kanu instead? I'm inclined to think we'd be no worse off.
I think comparing him to Bree or Burke isn't exactly fair, both far more experienced players who are proven at a higher level, just another day at the office for those 2, I suspect they'll never struggle to integrate into a side so long as they are fit to play.
Kelman has got his first big move with a bit of pressure on his shoulders, high expectations and is consistently playing at his highest level ever. This is a learning curve for him, and I expect Nathan Jones was prepared for this.
Has he been underwhelming so far? Yes, definitely
Has he had the chance to show what he is capable of as a striker yet? Not really.
Some strikers hit the ground running, others take time. I still think he would really benefit playing with Leaburn or Tanto, particularly Tanto who was creating loads of opportunities for us (was the reason why Carey and Bree found shooting opportunities)
The only thing that concerns me, is his character. I am not saying is he lazy, or has a bad attitude or anything like that, but he seems quite a shy character, and lacking a bit of belief.
May was a pest and looked so lively, Lyle (as much of a w*nker as he was) had a real attitude about him, Charlie looks like he needs an arm round his shoulder at present, whereas those type of players we have had in May & Lyle as examples, were personality monsters.
Of course he has, he's played most games this season.
Can you remind me of an actual chance he has missed? He is feeding off scraps. Give him a proper chance and he’ll stick it away. If he starts missing good chances then that is when I’ll become concerned, not now.
It's not just about the chances you've had or not had though, it's the chances you create yourself, which have been zero. Compare that to Tanto who has had much less game time and scored and assisted. That isn't down to luck.
Not luck, but it is down to Tanto having opportunities against a tired defence (as well as him playing very well in the minutes he's been offered). Kelman would also have scored from Tanto's one if given that pass from Bree.
None of our strikers have looked that good when starting. Campbell the most effective but not much acutal end product from any of them so far and Leaburn has started a couple, Tanto in the cup too. I think it's just the way we are set up to play at the moment. Someone said earlier on, and I agree, that none of the strikers for the opposition teams have played that well either.
I think you have hit the nail on the head there. In the last 30 mins, the game is getting more stretched from both teams.
Last season, nearly all of our goals came in the second half, with the perceived plan to hold tight for the first half, maybe score from a breakaway or a set-piece, but not really play with much freedom particularly in the first half.
Second half when looking for a winner, or to bring the game back level again was when we played with a bit more freedom, or if we were already winning, sometimes the game would open up a bit for a breakaway goal as the other team starts pushing further forward.
I really cant see that changing any time soon this season, and I think that we will continue to see a relatively low return from the starters and a comparatively high return from the finishers.
TC has been a stand out player for us, even with just the one assist to his name so far, all of his chances at goal have been self-created, and he perhaps should have had another assist or two.
My concern for Kelman is that if he doesn't start to score or assist soon, Godden will come in and take his place, and will Kelman be impactful from the bench?
None of our strikers have looked that good when starting. Campbell the most effective but not much acutal end product from any of them so far and Leaburn has started a couple, Tanto in the cup too. I think it's just the way we are set up to play at the moment. Someone said earlier on, and I agree, that none of the strikers for the opposition teams have played that well either.
I think you have hit the nail on the head there. In the last 30 mins, the game is getting more stretched from both teams.
Last season, nearly all of our goals came in the second half, with the perceived plan to hold tight for the first half, maybe score from a breakaway or a set-piece, but not really play with much freedom particularly in the first half.
Second half when looking for a winner, or to bring the game back level again was when we played with a bit more freedom, or if we were already winning, sometimes the game would open up a bit for a breakaway goal as the other team starts pushing further forward.
I really cant see that changing any time soon this season, and I think that we will continue to see a relatively low return from the starters and a comparatively high return from the finishers.
TC has been a stand out player for us, even with just the one assist to his name so far, all of his chances at goal have been self-created, and he perhaps should have had another assist or two.
My concern for Kelman is that if he doesn't start to score or assist soon, Godden will come in and take his place, and will Kelman be impactful from the bench?
i thought Kelman's best appearance was off the bench at QPR.
People are putting a lot of stock in Gooden scoring for us when he gets back. With the exception of one year where he scored in double digits a number of years ago, he has consistently scored somewhere between 5-7 in the championship. Not to mention he is coming off a surgery while in his mid 30s. I personally don’t expect him to play a significant role when he gets back - we need to find the combination of our other forwards that works best
I know we talk about tiring defenders out and bringing on people to punish them, but I'm sure the players on the bench want to be starting games. Tanto has said as much. If he comes off the bench and puts in a top performance, after replacing someone who was struggling, then in his mind, he should have earned the chance to start. Same with Leaburn replacing Kelman. I mean, what more can they do?
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However it's working at the moment starting him and bringing the game changers Leaburn and Tanto off the bench so if I was jonesy I'd keep doing the same.
Kelman has got his first big move with a bit of pressure on his shoulders, high expectations and is consistently playing at his highest level ever. This is a learning curve for him, and I expect Nathan Jones was prepared for this.
Has he been underwhelming so far? Yes, definitely
Has he had the chance to show what he is capable of as a striker yet? Not really.
Some strikers hit the ground running, others take time. I still think he would really benefit playing with Leaburn or Tanto, particularly Tanto who was creating loads of opportunities for us (was the reason why Carey and Bree found shooting opportunities)
The only thing that concerns me, is his character. I am not saying is he lazy, or has a bad attitude or anything like that, but he seems quite a shy character, and lacking a bit of belief.
May was a pest and looked so lively, Lyle (as much of a w*nker as he was) had a real attitude about him, Charlie looks like he needs an arm round his shoulder at present, whereas those type of players we have had in May & Lyle as examples, were personality monsters.
What he can control is his work rates, desire and willingness to get himself in the right spots. So long as he doesn't go hiding, I will back him.
I am desperate for him to score, cause I firmly believe once he finds his rhythm, he won't stop. You can tell he is a confidence player and just needs to get that belief/swagger he had at Orient.
I'm saying we are a better team when either Olaofe or Leaburn are playing instead of Kelman. They deserve to be starting over him.
Kelman is therefore only really starting because in that plan there is no one else, and when Godden is fit he will likely start instead. Let's be honest would our results look much different if we'd kept Kanu and we were starting him instead? I don't think so. 5 of our 7 goals have come when Kelman isn't on the pitch.
That said, i do think he needs better service and i'm not going to slate him. I said in an earlier post that i feel a bit sorry for the guy, he just needs a simple chance to fall his way, or even score a penalty, just anything so he can get going.
Someone said earlier on, and I agree, that none of the strikers for the opposition teams have played that well either.
Which of our results so far do you think would have been different had we not had Kelman out there, and we'd played Kanu instead? I'm inclined to think we'd be no worse off.
Last season, nearly all of our goals came in the second half, with the perceived plan to hold tight for the first half, maybe score from a breakaway or a set-piece, but not really play with much freedom particularly in the first half.
Second half when looking for a winner, or to bring the game back level again was when we played with a bit more freedom, or if we were already winning, sometimes the game would open up a bit for a breakaway goal as the other team starts pushing further forward.
I really cant see that changing any time soon this season, and I think that we will continue to see a relatively low return from the starters and a comparatively high return from the finishers.
TC has been a stand out player for us, even with just the one assist to his name so far, all of his chances at goal have been self-created, and he perhaps should have had another assist or two.
My concern for Kelman is that if he doesn't start to score or assist soon, Godden will come in and take his place, and will Kelman be impactful from the bench?
i thought Kelman's best appearance was off the bench at QPR.