What’s Going On With Tanto?

He’s looked great coming on, but unless there are fatigue issues with either TC or Kelman I’m not sure I’d mess with the current starting XI after back to back wins.

queensland_addick said:

For me, he needs to start, not only because he's currently far more influential than TC, but also because it appears that TC's confidence is shot, and he needs to be taken out for a while.
Only when it became obvious that he was about to be subbed off, did he suddenly spring back to life with a terrific run and shot, because the pressure had been lifted from him.
Jones has been very loyal to TC in the hope that he'd come out of his bad patch, but now he needs to make the switch.

He has looked so full of confidence in the last couple of games. Running at people and wearing them out for Oloafe to profit. He lacks composure for sure. But he went through an almost identical evolution process last year. It’ll click. 

cantersaddick said:

queensland_addick said:

For me, he needs to start, not only because he's currently far more influential than TC, but also because it appears that TC's confidence is shot, and he needs to be taken out for a while.
Only when it became obvious that he was about to be subbed off, did he suddenly spring back to life with a terrific run and shot, because the pressure had been lifted from him.
Jones has been very loyal to TC in the hope that he'd come out of his bad patch, but now he needs to make the switch.

Bad patch? Are you having a laugh? He's been our most threatening player in most games this season!

Having a laugh?  Being our most threatening player doesn't say a lot, because, until yesterday, we had created very little with the TC and Kelman combination.

Re watch the game. Jones was going crazy at him just prior to the substitution because he wasn't tracking his man, and Carey had just put a lovely pass out to the wing, but TC was static and made it look like an awful pass. It wasn't, TC should have been on the move.


He barely touched the ball until the half hour mark.
He constantly gets out muscled by defenders getting dispossessed far too easily, unlike Tanto.

First half there was a wonderful ball into the area for him to run onto. He could have either drawn the keeper into bringing him down, or gone around the keeper and got a shot away. He did neither, he hesitated his run, and it came to nothing.

Steve Brown commented the same, and suggested that he may have been ill last week because he was blowing out of his arse at times, not tracking back, and not reading forward passes.

He has not been the same since his purple patch last season and badly needs a rest IMHO.

TC is dangerous but wasteful with the good positions he finds himself in. 

Tanto currently is showing more effective play in the final third and I think that's why he deserves to start. 

NabySarr said:

queensland_addick said:

cantersaddick said:

queensland_addick said:

For me, he needs to start, not only because he's currently far more influential than TC, but also because it appears that TC's confidence is shot, and he needs to be taken out for a while.
Only when it became obvious that he was about to be subbed off, did he suddenly spring back to life with a terrific run and shot, because the pressure had been lifted from him.
Jones has been very loyal to TC in the hope that he'd come out of his bad patch, but now he needs to make the switch.

Bad patch? Are you having a laugh? He's been our most threatening player in most games this season!

Having a laugh?  Being our most threatening player doesn't say a lot, because, until yesterday, we had created very little with the TC and Kelman combination.

Re watch the game. Jones was going crazy at him just prior to the substitution because he wasn't tracking his man, and Carey had just put a lovely pass out to the wing, but TC was static and made it look like an awful pass. It wasn't, TC should have been on the move.


He barely touched the ball until the half hour mark.
He constantly gets out muscled by defenders getting dispossessed far too easily, unlike Tanto.

First half there was a wonderful ball into the area for him to run onto. He could have either drawn the keeper into bringing him down, or gone around the keeper and got a shot away. He did neither, he hesitated his run, and it came to nothing.

Steve Brown commented the same, and suggested that he may have been ill last week because he was blowing out of his arse at times, not tracking back, and not reading forward passes.

He has not been the same since his purple patch last season and badly needs a rest IMHO.

If you watch this TC and Kelman partnership and think the one that needs to come out of the team is TC then I really question what you have been watching 

It's TC's job to create chances for Kelman is it not?
How many goals, aside from Apter's at QPR, has TC created this season?

In contrast we have Bree on the other side, with two assists and one goal from just two games!

There is a good argument that whilst it's working, don't change it, and we do benefit from having the fresh legs of Leaburn and Oloafe coming on after 60/65 minutes every game.

I trust in Nathan Jones in making that determination.

But to suggest that TC has been great in recent games is ridiculous. 
His shot from the edge of the area that went miles over the bar, was weak, and had no conviction or confidence.

Unlike Carey's strike. 

I think that NJ has recently started to make his substitutions earlier, giving them more time to make an impact.

TC seems to have one moment in a game and fans forget all the other times he’s the reason our attack breaks down. For me, he frustrating to watch. 

cafc_4life said:

TC seems to have one moment in a game and fans forget all the other times he’s the reason our attack breaks down. For me, he frustrating to watch. 

There is Certainly a player in there, but has not shown he can do it at this level. Too many mis-placed paces, hesitant runs, scuffed shots, poor crosses, running down a dead end, etc.

Tanto has waited potentially and taken his chance(s) from the bench and deserves his start. 

We’re in such a great position with some real quality in depth so the 11 starters have to be on it or someone will swoop in. 

hopefully a break will give TC some determination to win his spot back and hopefully have the same impact Tanto has had in recent weeks. 

That's how I see it. TC has such great talent and potential, but like many young players he is inconsistent and thrives on confidence, as we saw last season when he scored 3 in 3.
What I don't want to see is his confidence shattered and the fans getting on his back.
Some of his hesitancy and poor decision making yesterday were those of a player lacking belief and confidence, so Jones needs to manage him carefully and he has the squad to do that.

Crispywood said:

queensland_addick said:

NabySarr said:

queensland_addick said:

cantersaddick said:

queensland_addick said:

For me, he needs to start, not only because he's currently far more influential than TC, but also because it appears that TC's confidence is shot, and he needs to be taken out for a while.
Only when it became obvious that he was about to be subbed off, did he suddenly spring back to life with a terrific run and shot, because the pressure had been lifted from him.
Jones has been very loyal to TC in the hope that he'd come out of his bad patch, but now he needs to make the switch.

Bad patch? Are you having a laugh? He's been our most threatening player in most games this season!

Having a laugh?  Being our most threatening player doesn't say a lot, because, until yesterday, we had created very little with the TC and Kelman combination.

Re watch the game. Jones was going crazy at him just prior to the substitution because he wasn't tracking his man, and Carey had just put a lovely pass out to the wing, but TC was static and made it look like an awful pass. It wasn't, TC should have been on the move.


He barely touched the ball until the half hour mark.
He constantly gets out muscled by defenders getting dispossessed far too easily, unlike Tanto.

First half there was a wonderful ball into the area for him to run onto. He could have either drawn the keeper into bringing him down, or gone around the keeper and got a shot away. He did neither, he hesitated his run, and it came to nothing.

Steve Brown commented the same, and suggested that he may have been ill last week because he was blowing out of his arse at times, not tracking back, and not reading forward passes.

He has not been the same since his purple patch last season and badly needs a rest IMHO.

If you watch this TC and Kelman partnership and think the one that needs to come out of the team is TC then I really question what you have been watching 

It's TC's job to create chances for Kelman is it not?
How many goals, aside from Apter's at QPR, has TC created this season?

In contrast we have Bree on the other side, with two assists and one goal from just two games!

There is a good argument that whilst it's working, don't change it, and we do benefit from having the fresh legs of Leaburn and Oloafe coming on after 60/65 minutes every game.

I trust in Nathan Jones in making that determination.

But to suggest that TC has been great in recent games is ridiculous. 
His shot from the edge of the area that went miles over the bar, was weak, and had no conviction or confidence.

Unlike Carey's strike. 

Put in a lovely ball for Jones which could have easily been 2-0 yesterday. Excusing the fact Bree is the best RWB in world football there is no other player that can create in this team other than TC. Can’t pretend he doesn’t has a severe lack of end product/decision making but he arguably does more running than any other player in the team for those 60 mins allows us to play this 532-4231 system and runs the defence ragged ready for Tanto to come on. Tanto deserves a start for his performances but I doubt he would have looked as good if not for the work TC does beforehand. He’s definitely offered more than Kelman that’s for sure 

Apter also regularly had better chance creation stats than TC when he was playing. We haven't given anyone else a try on that left-wing to compare. 

Campbell's xA is lower than players such as Edwards, Bree (from 2 games), Apter, Jones and Coventry. He isn't as good at chance creation as you think. 

SELR_addicks said:

Crispywood said:

queensland_addick said:

NabySarr said:

queensland_addick said:

cantersaddick said:

queensland_addick said:

For me, he needs to start, not only because he's currently far more influential than TC, but also because it appears that TC's confidence is shot, and he needs to be taken out for a while.
Only when it became obvious that he was about to be subbed off, did he suddenly spring back to life with a terrific run and shot, because the pressure had been lifted from him.
Jones has been very loyal to TC in the hope that he'd come out of his bad patch, but now he needs to make the switch.

Bad patch? Are you having a laugh? He's been our most threatening player in most games this season!

Having a laugh?  Being our most threatening player doesn't say a lot, because, until yesterday, we had created very little with the TC and Kelman combination.

Re watch the game. Jones was going crazy at him just prior to the substitution because he wasn't tracking his man, and Carey had just put a lovely pass out to the wing, but TC was static and made it look like an awful pass. It wasn't, TC should have been on the move.


He barely touched the ball until the half hour mark.
He constantly gets out muscled by defenders getting dispossessed far too easily, unlike Tanto.

First half there was a wonderful ball into the area for him to run onto. He could have either drawn the keeper into bringing him down, or gone around the keeper and got a shot away. He did neither, he hesitated his run, and it came to nothing.

Steve Brown commented the same, and suggested that he may have been ill last week because he was blowing out of his arse at times, not tracking back, and not reading forward passes.

He has not been the same since his purple patch last season and badly needs a rest IMHO.

If you watch this TC and Kelman partnership and think the one that needs to come out of the team is TC then I really question what you have been watching 

It's TC's job to create chances for Kelman is it not?
How many goals, aside from Apter's at QPR, has TC created this season?

In contrast we have Bree on the other side, with two assists and one goal from just two games!

There is a good argument that whilst it's working, don't change it, and we do benefit from having the fresh legs of Leaburn and Oloafe coming on after 60/65 minutes every game.

I trust in Nathan Jones in making that determination.

But to suggest that TC has been great in recent games is ridiculous. 
His shot from the edge of the area that went miles over the bar, was weak, and had no conviction or confidence.

Unlike Carey's strike. 

Put in a lovely ball for Jones which could have easily been 2-0 yesterday. Excusing the fact Bree is the best RWB in world football there is no other player that can create in this team other than TC. Can’t pretend he doesn’t has a severe lack of end product/decision making but he arguably does more running than any other player in the team for those 60 mins allows us to play this 532-4231 system and runs the defence ragged ready for Tanto to come on. Tanto deserves a start for his performances but I doubt he would have looked as good if not for the work TC does beforehand. He’s definitely offered more than Kelman that’s for sure 

Apter also regularly had better chance creation stats than TC when he was playing. We haven't given anyone else a try on that left-wing to compare. 

Campbell's xA is lower than players such as Edwards, Bree (from 2 games), Apter, Jones and Coventry. He isn't as good at chance creation as you think. 

Fair enough all for Tanto being given a chance to start, but TC could have had an assist with the cross for Jones yesterday, arguably would expect to have someone on his cross yesterday across the 6 yard box as well. He definitely lacks end product but tries to make something happen and gets involved in the build up. When I see people say he’s the problem and not Kelman that’s where I don’t understand it because it’s all well good saying Kelman is this clinical finisher but if he’s never in the right position what’s the point   

Crispywood said:

SELR_addicks said:

Crispywood said:

queensland_addick said:

NabySarr said:

queensland_addick said:

cantersaddick said:

queensland_addick said:

For me, he needs to start, not only because he's currently far more influential than TC, but also because it appears that TC's confidence is shot, and he needs to be taken out for a while.
Only when it became obvious that he was about to be subbed off, did he suddenly spring back to life with a terrific run and shot, because the pressure had been lifted from him.
Jones has been very loyal to TC in the hope that he'd come out of his bad patch, but now he needs to make the switch.

Bad patch? Are you having a laugh? He's been our most threatening player in most games this season!

Having a laugh?  Being our most threatening player doesn't say a lot, because, until yesterday, we had created very little with the TC and Kelman combination.

Re watch the game. Jones was going crazy at him just prior to the substitution because he wasn't tracking his man, and Carey had just put a lovely pass out to the wing, but TC was static and made it look like an awful pass. It wasn't, TC should have been on the move.


He barely touched the ball until the half hour mark.
He constantly gets out muscled by defenders getting dispossessed far too easily, unlike Tanto.

First half there was a wonderful ball into the area for him to run onto. He could have either drawn the keeper into bringing him down, or gone around the keeper and got a shot away. He did neither, he hesitated his run, and it came to nothing.

Steve Brown commented the same, and suggested that he may have been ill last week because he was blowing out of his arse at times, not tracking back, and not reading forward passes.

He has not been the same since his purple patch last season and badly needs a rest IMHO.

If you watch this TC and Kelman partnership and think the one that needs to come out of the team is TC then I really question what you have been watching 

It's TC's job to create chances for Kelman is it not?
How many goals, aside from Apter's at QPR, has TC created this season?

In contrast we have Bree on the other side, with two assists and one goal from just two games!

There is a good argument that whilst it's working, don't change it, and we do benefit from having the fresh legs of Leaburn and Oloafe coming on after 60/65 minutes every game.

I trust in Nathan Jones in making that determination.

But to suggest that TC has been great in recent games is ridiculous. 
His shot from the edge of the area that went miles over the bar, was weak, and had no conviction or confidence.

Unlike Carey's strike. 

Put in a lovely ball for Jones which could have easily been 2-0 yesterday. Excusing the fact Bree is the best RWB in world football there is no other player that can create in this team other than TC. Can’t pretend he doesn’t has a severe lack of end product/decision making but he arguably does more running than any other player in the team for those 60 mins allows us to play this 532-4231 system and runs the defence ragged ready for Tanto to come on. Tanto deserves a start for his performances but I doubt he would have looked as good if not for the work TC does beforehand. He’s definitely offered more than Kelman that’s for sure 

Apter also regularly had better chance creation stats than TC when he was playing. We haven't given anyone else a try on that left-wing to compare. 

Campbell's xA is lower than players such as Edwards, Bree (from 2 games), Apter, Jones and Coventry. He isn't as good at chance creation as you think. 

Fair enough all for Tanto being given a chance to start, but TC could have had an assist with the cross for Jones yesterday, arguably would expect to have someone on his cross yesterday across the 6 yard box as well. He definitely lacks end product but tries to make something happen and gets involved in the build up. When I see people say he’s the problem and not Kelman that’s where I don’t understand it because it’s all well good saying Kelman is this clinical finisher but if he’s never in the right position what’s the point   

A few of Godden's goals last season were follow ups from keeper's saves or defender's blocks. It seems to come natural to him just being in the right place at the right time, whether it is something that can be learnt with experience in Kelman's case we will have to wait and see.

jimmymelrose said:

SELR_addicks said:

Crispywood said:

queensland_addick said:

NabySarr said:

queensland_addick said:

cantersaddick said:

queensland_addick said:

For me, he needs to start, not only because he's currently far more influential than TC, but also because it appears that TC's confidence is shot, and he needs to be taken out for a while.
Only when it became obvious that he was about to be subbed off, did he suddenly spring back to life with a terrific run and shot, because the pressure had been lifted from him.
Jones has been very loyal to TC in the hope that he'd come out of his bad patch, but now he needs to make the switch.

Bad patch? Are you having a laugh? He's been our most threatening player in most games this season!

Having a laugh?  Being our most threatening player doesn't say a lot, because, until yesterday, we had created very little with the TC and Kelman combination.

Re watch the game. Jones was going crazy at him just prior to the substitution because he wasn't tracking his man, and Carey had just put a lovely pass out to the wing, but TC was static and made it look like an awful pass. It wasn't, TC should have been on the move.


He barely touched the ball until the half hour mark.
He constantly gets out muscled by defenders getting dispossessed far too easily, unlike Tanto.

First half there was a wonderful ball into the area for him to run onto. He could have either drawn the keeper into bringing him down, or gone around the keeper and got a shot away. He did neither, he hesitated his run, and it came to nothing.

Steve Brown commented the same, and suggested that he may have been ill last week because he was blowing out of his arse at times, not tracking back, and not reading forward passes.

He has not been the same since his purple patch last season and badly needs a rest IMHO.

If you watch this TC and Kelman partnership and think the one that needs to come out of the team is TC then I really question what you have been watching 

It's TC's job to create chances for Kelman is it not?
How many goals, aside from Apter's at QPR, has TC created this season?

In contrast we have Bree on the other side, with two assists and one goal from just two games!

There is a good argument that whilst it's working, don't change it, and we do benefit from having the fresh legs of Leaburn and Oloafe coming on after 60/65 minutes every game.

I trust in Nathan Jones in making that determination.

But to suggest that TC has been great in recent games is ridiculous. 
His shot from the edge of the area that went miles over the bar, was weak, and had no conviction or confidence.

Unlike Carey's strike. 

Put in a lovely ball for Jones which could have easily been 2-0 yesterday. Excusing the fact Bree is the best RWB in world football there is no other player that can create in this team other than TC. Can’t pretend he doesn’t has a severe lack of end product/decision making but he arguably does more running than any other player in the team for those 60 mins allows us to play this 532-4231 system and runs the defence ragged ready for Tanto to come on. Tanto deserves a start for his performances but I doubt he would have looked as good if not for the work TC does beforehand. He’s definitely offered more than Kelman that’s for sure 

Apter also regularly had better chance creation stats than TC when he was playing. We haven't given anyone else a try on that left-wing to compare. 

Campbell's xA is lower than players such as Edwards, Bree (from 2 games), Apter, Jones and Coventry. He isn't as good at chance creation as you think. 

If C’s expected assists is 5, E’s is 12, and B’s is 16 and they all make 4 assists, does that mean a respective percentage assist success rate of 80%, 33%, and 25%?

If not, what is an xA?

It's essentially how good are the chances they're providing for others. If Campbell sets up Kelman on the line it would be a 0.99xA. So even if Kelman screwed up the chance Campbell would be credited with how good a chance he made for him. 

Tries to take away the chances of the other person messing up the chance. Or if Carey sticks one in the top corner from 25 yards, the assist isn't really worth much because it was all on Carey's finish. 

queensland_addick said:

NabySarr said:

queensland_addick said:

cantersaddick said:

queensland_addick said:

For me, he needs to start, not only because he's currently far more influential than TC, but also because it appears that TC's confidence is shot, and he needs to be taken out for a while.
Only when it became obvious that he was about to be subbed off, did he suddenly spring back to life with a terrific run and shot, because the pressure had been lifted from him.
Jones has been very loyal to TC in the hope that he'd come out of his bad patch, but now he needs to make the switch.

Bad patch? Are you having a laugh? He's been our most threatening player in most games this season!

Having a laugh?  Being our most threatening player doesn't say a lot, because, until yesterday, we had created very little with the TC and Kelman combination.

Re watch the game. Jones was going crazy at him just prior to the substitution because he wasn't tracking his man, and Carey had just put a lovely pass out to the wing, but TC was static and made it look like an awful pass. It wasn't, TC should have been on the move.


He barely touched the ball until the half hour mark.
He constantly gets out muscled by defenders getting dispossessed far too easily, unlike Tanto.

First half there was a wonderful ball into the area for him to run onto. He could have either drawn the keeper into bringing him down, or gone around the keeper and got a shot away. He did neither, he hesitated his run, and it came to nothing.

Steve Brown commented the same, and suggested that he may have been ill last week because he was blowing out of his arse at times, not tracking back, and not reading forward passes.

He has not been the same since his purple patch last season and badly needs a rest IMHO.

If you watch this TC and Kelman partnership and think the one that needs to come out of the team is TC then I really question what you have been watching 

It's TC's job to create chances for Kelman is it not?
How many goals, aside from Apter's at QPR, has TC created this season?

In contrast we have Bree on the other side, with two assists and one goal from just two games!

There is a good argument that whilst it's working, don't change it, and we do benefit from having the fresh legs of Leaburn and Oloafe coming on after 60/65 minutes every game.

I trust in Nathan Jones in making that determination.

But to suggest that TC has been great in recent games is ridiculous. 
His shot from the edge of the area that went miles over the bar, was weak, and had no conviction or confidence.

Unlike Carey's strike. 

TC has created more chances than anyone else in our squad with 10. Not his fault if players don’t score from them.

Bree has equalled it, but given the minutes he’s had it seems unrealistic to assume he can carry on that rate all season long.

NabySarr said:

SELR_addicks said:

Crispywood said:

queensland_addick said:

NabySarr said:

queensland_addick said:

cantersaddick said:

queensland_addick said:

For me, he needs to start, not only because he's currently far more influential than TC, but also because it appears that TC's confidence is shot, and he needs to be taken out for a while.
Only when it became obvious that he was about to be subbed off, did he suddenly spring back to life with a terrific run and shot, because the pressure had been lifted from him.
Jones has been very loyal to TC in the hope that he'd come out of his bad patch, but now he needs to make the switch.

Bad patch? Are you having a laugh? He's been our most threatening player in most games this season!

Having a laugh?  Being our most threatening player doesn't say a lot, because, until yesterday, we had created very little with the TC and Kelman combination.

Re watch the game. Jones was going crazy at him just prior to the substitution because he wasn't tracking his man, and Carey had just put a lovely pass out to the wing, but TC was static and made it look like an awful pass. It wasn't, TC should have been on the move.


He barely touched the ball until the half hour mark.
He constantly gets out muscled by defenders getting dispossessed far too easily, unlike Tanto.

First half there was a wonderful ball into the area for him to run onto. He could have either drawn the keeper into bringing him down, or gone around the keeper and got a shot away. He did neither, he hesitated his run, and it came to nothing.

Steve Brown commented the same, and suggested that he may have been ill last week because he was blowing out of his arse at times, not tracking back, and not reading forward passes.

He has not been the same since his purple patch last season and badly needs a rest IMHO.

If you watch this TC and Kelman partnership and think the one that needs to come out of the team is TC then I really question what you have been watching 

It's TC's job to create chances for Kelman is it not?
How many goals, aside from Apter's at QPR, has TC created this season?

In contrast we have Bree on the other side, with two assists and one goal from just two games!

There is a good argument that whilst it's working, don't change it, and we do benefit from having the fresh legs of Leaburn and Oloafe coming on after 60/65 minutes every game.

I trust in Nathan Jones in making that determination.

But to suggest that TC has been great in recent games is ridiculous. 
His shot from the edge of the area that went miles over the bar, was weak, and had no conviction or confidence.

Unlike Carey's strike. 

Put in a lovely ball for Jones which could have easily been 2-0 yesterday. Excusing the fact Bree is the best RWB in world football there is no other player that can create in this team other than TC. Can’t pretend he doesn’t has a severe lack of end product/decision making but he arguably does more running than any other player in the team for those 60 mins allows us to play this 532-4231 system and runs the defence ragged ready for Tanto to come on. Tanto deserves a start for his performances but I doubt he would have looked as good if not for the work TC does beforehand. He’s definitely offered more than Kelman that’s for sure 

Apter also regularly had better chance creation stats than TC when he was playing. We haven't given anyone else a try on that left-wing to compare. 

Campbell's xA is lower than players such as Edwards, Bree (from 2 games), Apter, Jones and Coventry. He isn't as good at chance creation as you think. 

Take away set pieces and TC would probably be 2nd or maybe even 1st on that list 

3rd actually. But his xA in total is 0.5 which is still lower than Lloyd Jones on 0.57 and Apter (with 120 less minutes) has 1.39. This doesn't include yesterday's game so we'll see in a few days what that adds to the totals. 

Like I said, he's dangerous but ineffective in the final third. If you're behind a centre back and only 0.14 ahead (in open play) of the likes of Coventry and Edwards, you're not really creating much as a winger.