Had this conversation on here lots. Some do, some don’t. The majority do though I would say. You might hear or see Millwall fans saying they don’t care for Charlton but they won’t be speaking for all of us.
Anyone who says they don't care is lying. Probably the games that both sets of fans looked for first when the fixtures were released and i'd guess that both games will probably be the quickest sell outs of away allocations all season. I think you lot sold it out before the season had even started.
For the vast majority I agree. And that’s why tickets sell out rapid. But not for everyone. Some I know couldn’t give a toss about palace and Charlton. For them it’s only West Ham and palace and Charlton is just another London derby. I don’t get that mentality myself. And as I say, those types are in a minority.
For me personally it was definitely the first fixture I looked for and I’ve been buzzing for the game all week.
Thinking about this a bit more, the club should look to see if it can present ticket availability in this way so that fans and others wanting to go to a match can see where availability is rather than having to go into each separate block one at a time, come out of it and faff around looking at the next one, and so on until they lose the will to live and give up
I find it bizarre that any one has palace as our main local rivals , it will always be the scum . Only reason i can think of is we have too many Bromleyites in our support and they mainly suffer with an identity crisis .
I don't think it is viewing Palace as our main rivals, it's more about despising them as a plastic club from Surrey with plastic fans who think they are South London - and also the way the Stripey C*nts treated us when we played at Shithurst.
There are only two proper South East London professional football clubs and that's us and, I agree, the flat cap wearing wankers from Bermondsey, who are our only rivals.
Only the spanners are originally from north of the river. So there’s only really one.
My dad always hated the SE London deserters - Arsenal.
Me too even if they had long before I was even born 😀.
I’m Bexley Borough and don’t think I’ve ever been through Brockley in my life. Guessing it’s past Lewisham way, but wouldn’t be able to pin it on a map. Surprised we have fans that way.
I would have assumed it was Millwall as it's next door to New Cross. Though I'd say it has more of a Dulwich Hamlet vibe to it these days!
My dad said that when he first started following us in the mid 60s, it was very much go to Charlton one week, Millwall the next, as I think a lot of people did/could back then, and he eventually settled on us, hence my allegiance. I would certainly say that having grown up in the SE4 postcode, I definitely never went to school with any other Charlton fans. It was only when I went to secondary school that I met a few others. However as @MillwallFan mentioned above, these weren’t fans of us that went to the games, more fleeting family connections and to be honest a few of them had us as their second team and would typically be your Man Utd, Liverpool fans etc
Because of this, I never had a group of mates my own age I would go to games with, which never really bothered me as I have always enjoyed going with my dad, my uncle and their mates. And any additional fans that have become friends or acquaintances, have been through here and on the away supporters coaches when I was going more.
Looking forward to continuing the tradition with my two boys, particularly given I’m now Shirley which means there will likely be mainly Palace in their schools as they grow up
I would also add that as I have gone through working life and met colleagues and shared who I support, whenever I have mentioned Charlton, people are often interested in knowing more, purely on the basis I think they recognise you’re likely to be a true fan. I would imagine it’s the same for QPR, Millwall, Orient, Wimbledon etc. Maybe still Brentford, Palace and Fulham, but they have probably gained a few fans as a result of being in the Prem over the last few years, so you never know if they were there when they were all in the lower leagues
Palace rivalry is more due to Ron Noades trying to merge us and their fans being oddballs then local bragging rights, which would only apply to fans with a BR post code. DR and SE are where most of our fans live.
Downham is probably the hot bed of millwalls support.
As a "younger" fan whose family weren't Charlton I had to learn about the Palace rivalry but the Millwall one I just knew about. Growing up in Sidcup and going to school in Bexley I definitely knew more Charlton fans than other local clubs but then it was Palace. I can only think of one Millwall fan I grew up with
In the early 80s we did the Millwall/Charlton thing, while always being Charlton it was still a thing to go to Millwall or sometimes Fisher Athletic to see a game. Of course, no organisation was needed back in the day, no have we got tickets, just pay cash on the way in. Didn't do it loads, but it happened. Wish I could remember more about Fisher.
In the early 80s we did the Millwall/Charlton thing, while always being Charlton it was still a thing to go to Millwall or sometimes Fisher Athletic to see a game. Of course, no organisation was needed back in the day, no have we got tickets, just pay cash on the way in. Didn't do it loads, but it happened. Wish I could remember more about Fisher.
My wife's paternal grandfather was a Charlton fan (from Deptford!) and he used to take his son to both grounds. My wife's dad then chose Millwall out of the two as did my two brothers in law!
My family are pure Charlton, as are my two sons. My two grandchildren also - which will be a challenge as they grow older as they both live up t'north.
Yeah, you could be pure Charlton, or anything, and still go to other games. Went to Arsenal a couple of times, which was an experience on the North Bank compared to the East Terrace.
When my son got binned by us, he was given the opportunity to play for Fisher Ath, for 3 seasons or so, he absolutely loved playing for them.
One of the Fisher coaches was Ex Milwall who had been a member of the FA youth cup winning team. He told a story about being picked by George Grahams back four. He told this story endlessly. However someone else who knew the truth asked “ How many times did George play you in the back 4?” “5 or 6” came the sheepish reply. “What happened on the 7 th time?” “I got transferred to Aldershot”
I’m Bexley Borough and don’t think I’ve ever been through Brockley in my life. Guessing it’s past Lewisham way, but wouldn’t be able to pin it on a map. Surprised we have fans that way.
I would have assumed it was Millwall as it's next door to New Cross. Though I'd say it has more of a Dulwich Hamlet vibe to it these days!
My dad said that when he first started following us in the mid 60s, it was very much go to Charlton one week, Millwall the next, as I think a lot of people did/could back then, and he eventually settled on us, hence my allegiance. I would certainly say that having grown up in the SE4 postcode, I definitely never went to school with any other Charlton fans. It was only when I went to secondary school that I met a few others. However as @MillwallFan mentioned above, these weren’t fans of us that went to the games, more fleeting family connections and to be honest a few of them had us as their second team and would typically be your Man Utd, Liverpool fans etc
Because of this, I never had a group of mates my own age I would go to games with, which never really bothered me as I have always enjoyed going with my dad, my uncle and their mates. And any additional fans that have become friends or acquaintances, have been through here and on the away supporters coaches when I was going more.
Looking forward to continuing the tradition with my two boys, particularly given I’m now Shirley which means there will likely be mainly Palace in their schools as they grow up
I would also add that as I have gone through working life and met colleagues and shared who I support, whenever I have mentioned Charlton, people are often interested in knowing more, purely on the basis I think they recognise you’re likely to be a true fan. I would imagine it’s the same for QPR, Millwall, Orient, Wimbledon etc. Maybe still Brentford, Palace and Fulham, but they have probably gained a few fans as a result of being in the Prem over the last few years, so you never know if they were there when they were all in the lower leagues
Is that just at weekends or is it a full time thing ?
I’m Bexley Borough and don’t think I’ve ever been through Brockley in my life. Guessing it’s past Lewisham way, but wouldn’t be able to pin it on a map. Surprised we have fans that way.
It's interesting that you say this. I'll swap you for Northumberland Heath. When I first started my last job, in the small talk my boss said that he lived in Northumberland Heath and I asked him where is that, he could not believe I had never heard of it, to this day I am convinced it is Erith, he's not having that.
I’m Bexley Borough and don’t think I’ve ever been through Brockley in my life. Guessing it’s past Lewisham way, but wouldn’t be able to pin it on a map. Surprised we have fans that way.
I would have assumed it was Millwall as it's next door to New Cross. Though I'd say it has more of a Dulwich Hamlet vibe to it these days!
My dad said that when he first started following us in the mid 60s, it was very much go to Charlton one week, Millwall the next, as I think a lot of people did/could back then, and he eventually settled on us, hence my allegiance. I would certainly say that having grown up in the SE4 postcode, I definitely never went to school with any other Charlton fans. It was only when I went to secondary school that I met a few others. However as @MillwallFan mentioned above, these weren’t fans of us that went to the games, more fleeting family connections and to be honest a few of them had us as their second team and would typically be your Man Utd, Liverpool fans etc
Because of this, I never had a group of mates my own age I would go to games with, which never really bothered me as I have always enjoyed going with my dad, my uncle and their mates. And any additional fans that have become friends or acquaintances, have been through here and on the away supporters coaches when I was going more.
Looking forward to continuing the tradition with my two boys, particularly given I’m now Shirley which means there will likely be mainly Palace in their schools as they grow up
I would also add that as I have gone through working life and met colleagues and shared who I support, whenever I have mentioned Charlton, people are often interested in knowing more, purely on the basis I think they recognise you’re likely to be a true fan. I would imagine it’s the same for QPR, Millwall, Orient, Wimbledon etc. Maybe still Brentford, Palace and Fulham, but they have probably gained a few fans as a result of being in the Prem over the last few years, so you never know if they were there when they were all in the lower leagues
Is that just at weekends or is it a full time thing ?
Most minutes of most days to be fair - she’s very demanding
I couldn't let go of not knowing why those seats are being bought in the bottom corner of the Curbs.
It's the poor sods who trust the ticket site and click 'CHOOSE SEATS FOR ME'.
The default setting of the ticket site is to work through blocks presumably in alphabetical order, and pick out the required seats from the front row upwards. Block ESA is the first in the stadium alphabetically. The automated ticket selector might have the ability to choose decent seats, but if it does the club have left it on a default setting.
If I select a price range of £30-£40 and ask it to choose seats - it still picks out the first block alphabetically. It's not programmed to pick out seats by choosing from the highest price category in my range. Again, unsure if these are site settings the club isn't using, or whether such a feature isn't offered by the third-party provider. Given ticket prices are now geared up to maximise revenue, not total sales, the ticket site is doing the club a disservice.
Had this conversation on here lots. Some do, some don’t. The majority do though I would say. You might hear or see Millwall fans saying they don’t care for Charlton but they won’t be speaking for all of us.
Anyone who says they don't care is lying. Probably the games that both sets of fans looked for first when the fixtures were released and i'd guess that both games will probably be the quickest sell outs of away allocations all season. I think you lot sold it out before the season had even started.
For the vast majority I agree. And that’s why tickets sell out rapid. But not for everyone. Some I know couldn’t give a toss about palace and Charlton. For them it’s only West Ham and palace and Charlton is just another London derby. I don’t get that mentality myself. And as I say, those types are in a minority.
For me personally it was definitely the first fixture I looked for and I’ve been buzzing for the game all week.
Charlton millwall more of an everton liverpool neighbourly rivalry …
Had this conversation on here lots. Some do, some don’t. The majority do though I would say. You might hear or see Millwall fans saying they don’t care for Charlton but they won’t be speaking for all of us.
Anyone who says they don't care is lying. Probably the games that both sets of fans looked for first when the fixtures were released and i'd guess that both games will probably be the quickest sell outs of away allocations all season. I think you lot sold it out before the season had even started.
For the vast majority I agree. And that’s why tickets sell out rapid. But not for everyone. Some I know couldn’t give a toss about palace and Charlton. For them it’s only West Ham and palace and Charlton is just another London derby. I don’t get that mentality myself. And as I say, those types are in a minority.
For me personally it was definitely the first fixture I looked for and I’ve been buzzing for the game all week.
Charlton millwall more of an everton liverpool neighbourly rivalry …
Tube strikes all week and that'll cause issues Saturday, my train is already taking 2 hours instead of 90 mins due to engineering on the theamslink. Very much considering cancelling my tickets tbh, not worth the hassle.
My first train is at 11.30 and I didn't realise it was a 12.30 kick off lol, that's that decided.
Had this conversation on here lots. Some do, some don’t. The majority do though I would say. You might hear or see Millwall fans saying they don’t care for Charlton but they won’t be speaking for all of us.
Anyone who says they don't care is lying. Probably the games that both sets of fans looked for first when the fixtures were released and i'd guess that both games will probably be the quickest sell outs of away allocations all season. I think you lot sold it out before the season had even started.
For the vast majority I agree. And that’s why tickets sell out rapid. But not for everyone. Some I know couldn’t give a toss about palace and Charlton. For them it’s only West Ham and palace and Charlton is just another London derby. I don’t get that mentality myself. And as I say, those types are in a minority.
For me personally it was definitely the first fixture I looked for and I’ve been buzzing for the game all week.
Charlton millwall more of an everton liverpool neighbourly rivalry …
Liverpool v Everton used to be friendly and fans sat together etc. Not any more ….
My dad grew up on the middle park estate in Eltham and said when he was a kid everybody supported Charlton - I grew up in Eltham and due to the ‘white flight’ out of inner London means l, I’d say it’s probably 50/50 - I now live in Sidcup and again I’d say it’s 50/50 - I’d say I’ve grown up in a part charltonpart millwall culture - I know loads of them and went when Charlton were away when younger - the 3-0 defeat at Selhurst was a turning point and that and the the fact we keep losing to them makes me want to win this so much - it’s a no lose for us on Saturday - they expect the win and millwall fan has been telling us we are miles behind them for years now and this time last year was ridiculing our support - we win on Saturday in front of a near full house will prove how quickly things can change
Had this conversation on here lots. Some do, some don’t. The majority do though I would say. You might hear or see Millwall fans saying they don’t care for Charlton but they won’t be speaking for all of us.
Anyone who says they don't care is lying. Probably the games that both sets of fans looked for first when the fixtures were released and i'd guess that both games will probably be the quickest sell outs of away allocations all season. I think you lot sold it out before the season had even started.
For the vast majority I agree. And that’s why tickets sell out rapid. But not for everyone. Some I know couldn’t give a toss about palace and Charlton. For them it’s only West Ham and palace and Charlton is just another London derby. I don’t get that mentality myself. And as I say, those types are in a minority.
For me personally it was definitely the first fixture I looked for and I’ve been buzzing for the game all week.
Charlton millwall more of an everton liverpool neighbourly rivalry …
That's how I'd always seen it growing up....was too young to witness the terrace violence/ firms etc so perhaps had a different view to older fans but never had any issue with millwall growing up and didn't see it as a big rivalry even at the 4 -1 pre season friendly i went to with a millwall season.
Has seemed a lot more of a rivlary/ more important local Derby since as we've played each other more regularly and we've been utterly dismal.
Long may it continue as the day football is like rugby with rival fans sitting side by side during matches will be the death of it for me. Stabbing each other over football is too far. Some sort of happy medium would be desirable.
Had this conversation on here lots. Some do, some don’t. The majority do though I would say. You might hear or see Millwall fans saying they don’t care for Charlton but they won’t be speaking for all of us.
Anyone who says they don't care is lying. Probably the games that both sets of fans looked for first when the fixtures were released and i'd guess that both games will probably be the quickest sell outs of away allocations all season. I think you lot sold it out before the season had even started.
For the vast majority I agree. And that’s why tickets sell out rapid. But not for everyone. Some I know couldn’t give a toss about palace and Charlton. For them it’s only West Ham and palace and Charlton is just another London derby. I don’t get that mentality myself. And as I say, those types are in a minority.
For me personally it was definitely the first fixture I looked for and I’ve been buzzing for the game all week.
Charlton millwall more of an everton liverpool neighbourly rivalry …
That's how I'd always seen it growing up....was too young to witness the terrace violence/ firms etc so perhaps had a different view to older fans but never had any issue with millwall growing up and didn't see it as a big rivalry even at the 4 -1 pre season friendly i went to with a millwall season.
Has seemed a lot more of a rivlary/ more important local Derby since as we've played each other more regularly and we've been utterly dismal.
Long may it continue as the day football is like rugby with rival fans sitting side by side during matches will be the death of it for me. Stabbing each other over football is too far. Some sort of happy medium would be desirable.
Good post and spot on, especially the last paragraph.
Do you think it’s become a bigger rivalry because of the unbeaten run? I mean, it must really get under your lots skin, and we love taking the piss, so it’s really simmered.
Thinking about this a bit more, the club should look to see if it can present ticket availability in this way so that fans and others wanting to go to a match can see where availability is rather than having to go into each separate block one at a time, come out of it and faff around looking at the next one, and so on until they lose the will to live and give up
Tooting Red Army - makes sense like when you book tickets for concerts and theatre you can see whole seating plan rather than click in and out of each section, as we know our ticket IT isn't great......
Had this conversation on here lots. Some do, some don’t. The majority do though I would say. You might hear or see Millwall fans saying they don’t care for Charlton but they won’t be speaking for all of us.
Anyone who says they don't care is lying. Probably the games that both sets of fans looked for first when the fixtures were released and i'd guess that both games will probably be the quickest sell outs of away allocations all season. I think you lot sold it out before the season had even started.
For the vast majority I agree. And that’s why tickets sell out rapid. But not for everyone. Some I know couldn’t give a toss about palace and Charlton. For them it’s only West Ham and palace and Charlton is just another London derby. I don’t get that mentality myself. And as I say, those types are in a minority.
For me personally it was definitely the first fixture I looked for and I’ve been buzzing for the game all week.
Charlton millwall more of an everton liverpool neighbourly rivalry …
That's how I'd always seen it growing up....was too young to witness the terrace violence/ firms etc so perhaps had a different view to older fans but never had any issue with millwall growing up and didn't see it as a big rivalry even at the 4 -1 pre season friendly i went to with a millwall season.
Has seemed a lot more of a rivlary/ more important local Derby since as we've played each other more regularly and we've been utterly dismal.
Long may it continue as the day football is like rugby with rival fans sitting side by side during matches will be the death of it for me. Stabbing each other over football is too far. Some sort of happy medium would be desirable.
Good post and spot on, especially the last paragraph.
Do you think it’s become a bigger rivalry because of the unbeaten run? I mean, it must really get under your lots skin, and we love taking the piss, so it’s really simmered.
All good runs come to an end (unless we're talking about Huddersfield) and when we win on Saturday the misery of the last few decades (f*ck me it does hurt to say it!) will be expunged. You are only as good as your last result!
P.S. I pray to whatever Gods there may be that this comment doesn't come back to bite me on the arse at around 2.20pm on Saturday!
Had this conversation on here lots. Some do, some don’t. The majority do though I would say. You might hear or see Millwall fans saying they don’t care for Charlton but they won’t be speaking for all of us.
Anyone who says they don't care is lying. Probably the games that both sets of fans looked for first when the fixtures were released and i'd guess that both games will probably be the quickest sell outs of away allocations all season. I think you lot sold it out before the season had even started.
For the vast majority I agree. And that’s why tickets sell out rapid. But not for everyone. Some I know couldn’t give a toss about palace and Charlton. For them it’s only West Ham and palace and Charlton is just another London derby. I don’t get that mentality myself. And as I say, those types are in a minority.
For me personally it was definitely the first fixture I looked for and I’ve been buzzing for the game all week.
Charlton millwall more of an everton liverpool neighbourly rivalry …
That's how I'd always seen it growing up....was too young to witness the terrace violence/ firms etc so perhaps had a different view to older fans but never had any issue with millwall growing up and didn't see it as a big rivalry even at the 4 -1 pre season friendly i went to with a millwall season.
Has seemed a lot more of a rivlary/ more important local Derby since as we've played each other more regularly and we've been utterly dismal.
Long may it continue as the day football is like rugby with rival fans sitting side by side during matches will be the death of it for me. Stabbing each other over football is too far. Some sort of happy medium would be desirable.
Good post and spot on, especially the last paragraph.
Do you think it’s become a bigger rivalry because of the unbeaten run? I mean, it must really get under your lots skin, and we love taking the piss, so it’s really simmered.
All good runs come to an end (unless we're talking about Huddersfield) and when we win on Saturday the misery of the last few decades (f*ck me it does hurt to say it!) will be expunged. You are only as good as your last result!
P.S. I pray to whatever Gods there may be that this comment doesn't come back to bite me on the arse at around 2.20pm on Saturday!
Had this conversation on here lots. Some do, some don’t. The majority do though I would say. You might hear or see Millwall fans saying they don’t care for Charlton but they won’t be speaking for all of us.
Anyone who says they don't care is lying. Probably the games that both sets of fans looked for first when the fixtures were released and i'd guess that both games will probably be the quickest sell outs of away allocations all season. I think you lot sold it out before the season had even started.
For the vast majority I agree. And that’s why tickets sell out rapid. But not for everyone. Some I know couldn’t give a toss about palace and Charlton. For them it’s only West Ham and palace and Charlton is just another London derby. I don’t get that mentality myself. And as I say, those types are in a minority.
For me personally it was definitely the first fixture I looked for and I’ve been buzzing for the game all week.
Charlton millwall more of an everton liverpool neighbourly rivalry …
That's how I'd always seen it growing up....was too young to witness the terrace violence/ firms etc so perhaps had a different view to older fans but never had any issue with millwall growing up and didn't see it as a big rivalry even at the 4 -1 pre season friendly i went to with a millwall season.
Has seemed a lot more of a rivlary/ more important local Derby since as we've played each other more regularly and we've been utterly dismal.
Long may it continue as the day football is like rugby with rival fans sitting side by side during matches will be the death of it for me. Stabbing each other over football is too far. Some sort of happy medium would be desirable.
Good post and spot on, especially the last paragraph.
Do you think it’s become a bigger rivalry because of the unbeaten run? I mean, it must really get under your lots skin, and we love taking the piss, so it’s really simmered.
I'd say our side possibly as some of the capitulations/ no shows we've turned out in the fixture along with gut wrenchers like Dave Martin (a boyhood Charlton fan i believe!) equalising in the 4 - 4 in last minute has made it a bit of a bitter pill to swallow.
However worst thing about it was floundering alone in league one and being so poor and unthreatening as to be completely irrelevant and even millwall fans stopped the piss taking as it would be like booting a dying ginger puppy.
Im glad we've now climbed back up to warrant being called trainspotting/ anorak c****s and having fresh graffiti turning up as it shows it's a proper local derby to look forward to (before the game at least) after years of playing orient and Gillingham.
As much as football fans revel in rivals' demise eg relegation etc ultimately it's much better from a tribal point of view in increasingly sanitised modern football when you're in same league. Palace down here too would be good but can't see that happening for the foreseeable.
Nice way of presenting it. Should be the standard way of keeping track from now on. Deserves a promote IMO.
Agreed - can we get the same for the Covered End and West Stand? :-)
The West Stand one will look very similar. Except that, instead of little grey dots signifying the "occupied" seats, there will be a tiny little icon of a tartan rug and a flask.
Comments
live and give up
Because of this, I never had a group of mates my own age I would go to games with, which never really bothered me as I have always enjoyed going with my dad, my uncle and their mates. And any additional fans that have become friends or acquaintances, have been through here and on the away supporters coaches when I was going more.
I would also add that as I have gone through working life and met colleagues and shared who I support, whenever I have mentioned Charlton, people are often interested in knowing more, purely on the basis I think they recognise you’re likely to be a true fan. I would imagine it’s the same for QPR, Millwall, Orient, Wimbledon etc. Maybe still Brentford, Palace and Fulham, but they have probably gained a few fans as a result of being in the Prem over the last few years, so you never know if they were there when they were all in the lower leagues
Downham is probably the hot bed of millwalls support.
Flat caps shouldn't be worn until retirement.
“I got transferred to Aldershot”
It's interesting that you say this. I'll swap you for Northumberland Heath. When I first started my last job, in the small talk my boss said that he lived in Northumberland Heath and I asked him where is that, he could not believe I had never heard of it, to this day I am convinced it is Erith, he's not having that.
It's the poor sods who trust the ticket site and click 'CHOOSE SEATS FOR ME'.
The default setting of the ticket site is to work through blocks presumably in alphabetical order, and pick out the required seats from the front row upwards. Block ESA is the first in the stadium alphabetically. The automated ticket selector might have the ability to choose decent seats, but if it does the club have left it on a default setting.
If I select a price range of £30-£40 and ask it to choose seats - it still picks out the first block alphabetically. It's not programmed to pick out seats by choosing from the highest price category in my range. Again, unsure if these are site settings the club isn't using, or whether such a feature isn't offered by the third-party provider. Given ticket prices are now geared up to maximise revenue, not total sales, the ticket site is doing the club a disservice.
Anyway... riddle solved... back to work.
That's how I'd always seen it growing up....was too young to witness the terrace violence/ firms etc so perhaps had a different view to older fans but never had any issue with millwall growing up and didn't see it as a big rivalry even at the 4 -1 pre season friendly i went to with a millwall season.
Has seemed a lot more of a rivlary/ more important local Derby since as we've played each other more regularly and we've been utterly dismal.
Long may it continue as the day football is like rugby with rival fans sitting side by side during matches will be the death of it for me. Stabbing each other over football is too far. Some sort of happy medium would be desirable.
https://www.skysports.com/football/video/11095/13426147/huddersfield-vs-peterborough-joe-taylor-misses-sitter-against-former-club
However worst thing about it was floundering alone in league one and being so poor and unthreatening as to be completely irrelevant and even millwall fans stopped the piss taking as it would be like booting a dying ginger puppy.
Im glad we've now climbed back up to warrant being called trainspotting/ anorak c****s and having fresh graffiti turning up as it shows it's a proper local derby to look forward to (before the game at least) after years of playing orient and Gillingham.
As much as football fans revel in rivals' demise eg relegation etc ultimately it's much better from a tribal point of view in increasingly sanitised modern football when you're in same league. Palace down here too would be good but can't see that happening for the foreseeable.