MI5 does not publish an exact number of individuals on its watch list, but publicly available figures offer insight into the scale of counter-terrorism operations and the number of subjects of interest. Public figures indicate a multi-tiered approach to tracking individuals of concern.
Here is a breakdown of the numbers involved, based on figures from MI5 and Counter Terrorism Policing (CTP):
MI5 investigations (3,000 suspects): As of early 2025, MI5 and CTP were running more than 800 live counter-terrorism investigations involving approximately 3,000 subjects of interest. These are individuals suspected of being directly involved in terrorism, from planning attacks to sharing extremist content.
Individuals under close surveillance (3,000): A 2017 BBC report cited a counter-terrorism expert who said MI5 was "very concerned" about about 3,000 names on its watch list, with these people under "pretty regular surveillance". This figure aligns with the number of suspects involved in live operations mentioned above.
Wider extremist watch list (20,000+): The same 2017 report described a broader list of over 20,000 "extremists" in the UK who are not under constant surveillance but would be investigated if they exhibited suspicious behavior.
Individuals at risk of re-engaging in terrorism (40,000+): A 2020 Home Office statement revealed there were over 40,000 people that MI5 assessed as posing "some risk of them re-engaging in terrorist activity". This figure is part of a public petition to remove individuals on the terror watch list from the UK
"quoted by certain groups with an agenda to publicise". That'll be the Home Office then...
NOTE ; THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL STATEMENT NOR AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE THE THREAD A POLITICAL ONE. THE EXCHANGE AND CLARIFICATION OF DATA IS NOT POLITICAL. IT WILL ONLY GO THAT WAY IF ANYONE CHOOSES TO DO SO.
MI5 does not publish an exact number of individuals on its watch list, but publicly available figures offer insight into the scale of counter-terrorism operations and the number of subjects of interest. Public figures indicate a multi-tiered approach to tracking individuals of concern.
Here is a breakdown of the numbers involved, based on figures from MI5 and Counter Terrorism Policing (CTP):
MI5 investigations (3,000 suspects): As of early 2025, MI5 and CTP were running more than 800 live counter-terrorism investigations involving approximately 3,000 subjects of interest. These are individuals suspected of being directly involved in terrorism, from planning attacks to sharing extremist content.
Individuals under close surveillance (3,000): A 2017 BBC report cited a counter-terrorism expert who said MI5 was "very concerned" about about 3,000 names on its watch list, with these people under "pretty regular surveillance". This figure aligns with the number of suspects involved in live operations mentioned above.
Wider extremist watch list (20,000+): The same 2017 report described a broader list of over 20,000 "extremists" in the UK who are not under constant surveillance but would be investigated if they exhibited suspicious behavior.
Individuals at risk of re-engaging in terrorism (40,000+): A 2020 Home Office statement revealed there were over 40,000 people that MI5 assessed as posing "some risk of them re-engaging in terrorist activity". This figure is part of a public petition to remove individuals on the terror watch list from the UK
"quoted by certain groups with an agenda to publicise". That'll be the Home Office then...
NOTE ; THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL STATEMENT NOR AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE THE THREAD A POLITICAL ONE. THE EXCHANGE AND CLARIFICATION OF DATA IS NOT POLITICAL. IT WILL ONLY GO THAT WAY IF ANYONE CHOOSES TO DO SO.
I think it probably needs the MI5 section posting in full as it contains some context. The distinction between 'subjects of interest' (SOI) and 'closed subjects of interest' (CSOI) is crucial to the 40k claim, as many of those are no longer subjects of interest and many of them are overseas anyway. The following can be found on page 31 of the document HM Government Transparency Report: Disruptive Powers 2018/19 for which you kindly provided a link:
6 – MI5 Investigations and Closed SOI’s
MI5 is investigating approximately 3000 subjects of interest (SOIs) across 600 priority
investigations. Each SOI will have a different amount of investigative resource allocated to them
depending on the threat they are judged to post. A significant number of these 3,000 SOIs are
located overseas.
MI5 only investigates SOIs when it believes the individual may pose a threat. As soon as MI5
judges that an SOI no longer poses a threat, that SOI is downgraded and placed in a ‘Closed’
category (called ‘CSOI’, or Closed Subject of Interest). This does not mean these SOIs will
never pose a threat again, but merely that their current level of threat is not judged to be
sufficient to prioritise allocating investigative resource against them. This situation could change
at any time requiring MI5 to re-assess the threat they pose and, where necessary, begin
investigating them again. For example, a CSOI might re-engage in their previous terrorist activity.
Since 2017, as part of the joint MI5-Counter-Terrorism Policing Operational Improvement
Review following the 2017 terrorist attacks, MI5 has reviewed the way it manages this pool of
CSOIs to ensure the right monitoring measures are in place to alert MI5 if the CSOI begins to
pose a threat that might justify renewed investigation. To assist with efficiently managing this
pool of CSOIs, a new system of sub-categories has been applied so that each CSOI is allocated
to a specific category depending on the potential risk of them re-engaging. In the sub-categories
where MI5 judges there to be some risk of re-engaging in terrorist activity (this risk varies
dependent on the sub-category), there are currently over 40,000 CSOIs.
In 2017, the public figure for the number of CSOIs was 20,000. A substantial element of the
increase to over 40,000 is the inclusion of individuals who have never travelled to the UK but
whose details have been passed to MI5 by foreign intelligence services, in order that MI5 be
alerted should they enter the UK. This new figure is not, therefore, directly comparable to the
previous 20,000 figure and it does not mean there are now over twice as many CSOIs at risk of
re-engagement.
Nevertheless, by its very nature, the CSOI figure will always increase year on year. MI5 is
constantly opening new investigations into individuals who come to its attention and then
closing SOIs when it is confident it has mitigated any threat they pose. Individuals generally
remain in a CSOI category unless they re-engage in terrorist activity (in which case they are
moved back into a priority investigation), or until a substantial amount of time has passed. This inevitably means that more individuals enter the CSOI pool than leave it.
MI5 does not publish an exact number of individuals on its watch list, but publicly available figures offer insight into the scale of counter-terrorism operations and the number of subjects of interest. Public figures indicate a multi-tiered approach to tracking individuals of concern.
Here is a breakdown of the numbers involved, based on figures from MI5 and Counter Terrorism Policing (CTP):
MI5 investigations (3,000 suspects): As of early 2025, MI5 and CTP were running more than 800 live counter-terrorism investigations involving approximately 3,000 subjects of interest. These are individuals suspected of being directly involved in terrorism, from planning attacks to sharing extremist content.
Individuals under close surveillance (3,000): A 2017 BBC report cited a counter-terrorism expert who said MI5 was "very concerned" about about 3,000 names on its watch list, with these people under "pretty regular surveillance". This figure aligns with the number of suspects involved in live operations mentioned above.
Wider extremist watch list (20,000+): The same 2017 report described a broader list of over 20,000 "extremists" in the UK who are not under constant surveillance but would be investigated if they exhibited suspicious behavior.
Individuals at risk of re-engaging in terrorism (40,000+): A 2020 Home Office statement revealed there were over 40,000 people that MI5 assessed as posing "some risk of them re-engaging in terrorist activity". This figure is part of a public petition to remove individuals on the terror watch list from the UK
"quoted by certain groups with an agenda to publicise". That'll be the Home Office then...
NOTE ; THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL STATEMENT NOR AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE THE THREAD A POLITICAL ONE. THE EXCHANGE AND CLARIFICATION OF DATA IS NOT POLITICAL. IT WILL ONLY GO THAT WAY IF ANYONE CHOOSES TO DO SO.
I think it probably needs the MI5 section posting in full as it contains some context. The distinction between 'subjects of interest' (SOI) and 'closed subjects of interest' (CSOI) is crucial to the 40k claim, as many of those are no longer subjects of interest and many of them are overseas anyway. The following can be found on page 31 of the document HM Government Transparency Report: Disruptive Powers 2018/19 for which you kindly provided a link:
6 – MI5 Investigations and Closed SOI’s
MI5 is investigating approximately 3000 subjects of interest (SOIs) across 600 priority
investigations. Each SOI will have a different amount of investigative resource allocated to them
depending on the threat they are judged to post. A significant number of these 3,000 SOIs are
located overseas.
MI5 only investigates SOIs when it believes the individual may pose a threat. As soon as MI5
judges that an SOI no longer poses a threat, that SOI is downgraded and placed in a ‘Closed’
category (called ‘CSOI’, or Closed Subject of Interest). This does not mean these SOIs will
never pose a threat again, but merely that their current level of threat is not judged to be
sufficient to prioritise allocating investigative resource against them. This situation could change
at any time requiring MI5 to re-assess the threat they pose and, where necessary, begin
investigating them again. For example, a CSOI might re-engage in their previous terrorist activity.
Since 2017, as part of the joint MI5-Counter-Terrorism Policing Operational Improvement
Review following the 2017 terrorist attacks, MI5 has reviewed the way it manages this pool of
CSOIs to ensure the right monitoring measures are in place to alert MI5 if the CSOI begins to
pose a threat that might justify renewed investigation. To assist with efficiently managing this
pool of CSOIs, a new system of sub-categories has been applied so that each CSOI is allocated
to a specific category depending on the potential risk of them re-engaging. In the sub-categories
where MI5 judges there to be some risk of re-engaging in terrorist activity (this risk varies
dependent on the sub-category), there are currently over 40,000 CSOIs.
In 2017, the public figure for the number of CSOIs was 20,000. A substantial element of the
increase to over 40,000 is the inclusion of individuals who have never travelled to the UK but
whose details have been passed to MI5 by foreign intelligence services, in order that MI5 be
alerted should they enter the UK. This new figure is not, therefore, directly comparable to the
previous 20,000 figure and it does not mean there are now over twice as many CSOIs at risk of
re-engagement.
Nevertheless, by its very nature, the CSOI figure will always increase year on year. MI5 is
constantly opening new investigations into individuals who come to its attention and then
closing SOIs when it is confident it has mitigated any threat they pose. Individuals generally
remain in a CSOI category unless they re-engage in terrorist activity (in which case they are
moved back into a priority investigation), or until a substantial amount of time has passed. This inevitably means that more individuals enter the CSOI pool than leave it.
I'm glad that we agree that the 40,000 claim is valid.
MI5 does not publish an exact number of individuals on its watch list, but publicly available figures offer insight into the scale of counter-terrorism operations and the number of subjects of interest. Public figures indicate a multi-tiered approach to tracking individuals of concern.
Here is a breakdown of the numbers involved, based on figures from MI5 and Counter Terrorism Policing (CTP):
MI5 investigations (3,000 suspects): As of early 2025, MI5 and CTP were running more than 800 live counter-terrorism investigations involving approximately 3,000 subjects of interest. These are individuals suspected of being directly involved in terrorism, from planning attacks to sharing extremist content.
Individuals under close surveillance (3,000): A 2017 BBC report cited a counter-terrorism expert who said MI5 was "very concerned" about about 3,000 names on its watch list, with these people under "pretty regular surveillance". This figure aligns with the number of suspects involved in live operations mentioned above.
Wider extremist watch list (20,000+): The same 2017 report described a broader list of over 20,000 "extremists" in the UK who are not under constant surveillance but would be investigated if they exhibited suspicious behavior.
Individuals at risk of re-engaging in terrorism (40,000+): A 2020 Home Office statement revealed there were over 40,000 people that MI5 assessed as posing "some risk of them re-engaging in terrorist activity". This figure is part of a public petition to remove individuals on the terror watch list from the UK
"quoted by certain groups with an agenda to publicise". That'll be the Home Office then...
NOTE ; THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL STATEMENT NOR AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE THE THREAD A POLITICAL ONE. THE EXCHANGE AND CLARIFICATION OF DATA IS NOT POLITICAL. IT WILL ONLY GO THAT WAY IF ANYONE CHOOSES TO DO SO.
I think it probably needs the MI5 section posting in full as it contains some context. The distinction between 'subjects of interest' (SOI) and 'closed subjects of interest' (CSOI) is crucial to the 40k claim, as many of those are no longer subjects of interest and many of them are overseas anyway. The following can be found on page 31 of the document HM Government Transparency Report: Disruptive Powers 2018/19 for which you kindly provided a link:
6 – MI5 Investigations and Closed SOI’s
MI5 is investigating approximately 3000 subjects of interest (SOIs) across 600 priority
investigations. Each SOI will have a different amount of investigative resource allocated to them
depending on the threat they are judged to post. A significant number of these 3,000 SOIs are
located overseas.
MI5 only investigates SOIs when it believes the individual may pose a threat. As soon as MI5
judges that an SOI no longer poses a threat, that SOI is downgraded and placed in a ‘Closed’
category (called ‘CSOI’, or Closed Subject of Interest). This does not mean these SOIs will
never pose a threat again, but merely that their current level of threat is not judged to be
sufficient to prioritise allocating investigative resource against them. This situation could change
at any time requiring MI5 to re-assess the threat they pose and, where necessary, begin
investigating them again. For example, a CSOI might re-engage in their previous terrorist activity.
Since 2017, as part of the joint MI5-Counter-Terrorism Policing Operational Improvement
Review following the 2017 terrorist attacks, MI5 has reviewed the way it manages this pool of
CSOIs to ensure the right monitoring measures are in place to alert MI5 if the CSOI begins to
pose a threat that might justify renewed investigation. To assist with efficiently managing this
pool of CSOIs, a new system of sub-categories has been applied so that each CSOI is allocated
to a specific category depending on the potential risk of them re-engaging. In the sub-categories
where MI5 judges there to be some risk of re-engaging in terrorist activity (this risk varies
dependent on the sub-category), there are currently over 40,000 CSOIs.
In 2017, the public figure for the number of CSOIs was 20,000. A substantial element of the
increase to over 40,000 is the inclusion of individuals who have never travelled to the UK but
whose details have been passed to MI5 by foreign intelligence services, in order that MI5 be
alerted should they enter the UK. This new figure is not, therefore, directly comparable to the
previous 20,000 figure and it does not mean there are now over twice as many CSOIs at risk of
re-engagement.
Nevertheless, by its very nature, the CSOI figure will always increase year on year. MI5 is
constantly opening new investigations into individuals who come to its attention and then
closing SOIs when it is confident it has mitigated any threat they pose. Individuals generally
remain in a CSOI category unless they re-engage in terrorist activity (in which case they are
moved back into a priority investigation), or until a substantial amount of time has passed. This inevitably means that more individuals enter the CSOI pool than leave it.
I'm glad that we agree that the 40,000 claim is valid.
It's a cumulative total and most of those are closed cases, not currently being 'watched' and many not even in the UK,. The 40K figure is being portrayed as people being currently watched and in the UK, which is incorrect.
MI5 does not publish an exact number of individuals on its watch list, but publicly available figures offer insight into the scale of counter-terrorism operations and the number of subjects of interest. Public figures indicate a multi-tiered approach to tracking individuals of concern.
Here is a breakdown of the numbers involved, based on figures from MI5 and Counter Terrorism Policing (CTP):
MI5 investigations (3,000 suspects): As of early 2025, MI5 and CTP were running more than 800 live counter-terrorism investigations involving approximately 3,000 subjects of interest. These are individuals suspected of being directly involved in terrorism, from planning attacks to sharing extremist content.
Individuals under close surveillance (3,000): A 2017 BBC report cited a counter-terrorism expert who said MI5 was "very concerned" about about 3,000 names on its watch list, with these people under "pretty regular surveillance". This figure aligns with the number of suspects involved in live operations mentioned above.
Wider extremist watch list (20,000+): The same 2017 report described a broader list of over 20,000 "extremists" in the UK who are not under constant surveillance but would be investigated if they exhibited suspicious behavior.
Individuals at risk of re-engaging in terrorism (40,000+): A 2020 Home Office statement revealed there were over 40,000 people that MI5 assessed as posing "some risk of them re-engaging in terrorist activity". This figure is part of a public petition to remove individuals on the terror watch list from the UK
"quoted by certain groups with an agenda to publicise". That'll be the Home Office then...
NOTE ; THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL STATEMENT NOR AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE THE THREAD A POLITICAL ONE. THE EXCHANGE AND CLARIFICATION OF DATA IS NOT POLITICAL. IT WILL ONLY GO THAT WAY IF ANYONE CHOOSES TO DO SO.
I think it probably needs the MI5 section posting in full as it contains some context. The distinction between 'subjects of interest' (SOI) and 'closed subjects of interest' (CSOI) is crucial to the 40k claim, as many of those are no longer subjects of interest and many of them are overseas anyway. The following can be found on page 31 of the document HM Government Transparency Report: Disruptive Powers 2018/19 for which you kindly provided a link:
6 – MI5 Investigations and Closed SOI’s
MI5 is investigating approximately 3000 subjects of interest (SOIs) across 600 priority
investigations. Each SOI will have a different amount of investigative resource allocated to them
depending on the threat they are judged to post. A significant number of these 3,000 SOIs are
located overseas.
MI5 only investigates SOIs when it believes the individual may pose a threat. As soon as MI5
judges that an SOI no longer poses a threat, that SOI is downgraded and placed in a ‘Closed’
category (called ‘CSOI’, or Closed Subject of Interest). This does not mean these SOIs will
never pose a threat again, but merely that their current level of threat is not judged to be
sufficient to prioritise allocating investigative resource against them. This situation could change
at any time requiring MI5 to re-assess the threat they pose and, where necessary, begin
investigating them again. For example, a CSOI might re-engage in their previous terrorist activity.
Since 2017, as part of the joint MI5-Counter-Terrorism Policing Operational Improvement
Review following the 2017 terrorist attacks, MI5 has reviewed the way it manages this pool of
CSOIs to ensure the right monitoring measures are in place to alert MI5 if the CSOI begins to
pose a threat that might justify renewed investigation. To assist with efficiently managing this
pool of CSOIs, a new system of sub-categories has been applied so that each CSOI is allocated
to a specific category depending on the potential risk of them re-engaging. In the sub-categories
where MI5 judges there to be some risk of re-engaging in terrorist activity (this risk varies
dependent on the sub-category), there are currently over 40,000 CSOIs.
In 2017, the public figure for the number of CSOIs was 20,000. A substantial element of the
increase to over 40,000 is the inclusion of individuals who have never travelled to the UK but
whose details have been passed to MI5 by foreign intelligence services, in order that MI5 be
alerted should they enter the UK. This new figure is not, therefore, directly comparable to the
previous 20,000 figure and it does not mean there are now over twice as many CSOIs at risk of
re-engagement.
Nevertheless, by its very nature, the CSOI figure will always increase year on year. MI5 is
constantly opening new investigations into individuals who come to its attention and then
closing SOIs when it is confident it has mitigated any threat they pose. Individuals generally
remain in a CSOI category unless they re-engage in terrorist activity (in which case they are
moved back into a priority investigation), or until a substantial amount of time has passed. This inevitably means that more individuals enter the CSOI pool than leave it.
I'm glad that we agree that the 40,000 claim is valid.
It's a cumulative total and most of those are closed cases, not currently being 'watched' and many not even in the UK,. The 40K figure is being portrayed as people being currently watched and in the UK, which is incorrect.
That certainly hasn't been suggested on this forum.
It's worth remembering that three of the four 5th July terrorists weren't on any watch list. One was but was determined as not being a threat. Two of the three London Bridge terrorists were not known to the authorities. etc etc ...
MI5 does not publish an exact number of individuals on its watch list, but publicly available figures offer insight into the scale of counter-terrorism operations and the number of subjects of interest. Public figures indicate a multi-tiered approach to tracking individuals of concern.
Here is a breakdown of the numbers involved, based on figures from MI5 and Counter Terrorism Policing (CTP):
MI5 investigations (3,000 suspects): As of early 2025, MI5 and CTP were running more than 800 live counter-terrorism investigations involving approximately 3,000 subjects of interest. These are individuals suspected of being directly involved in terrorism, from planning attacks to sharing extremist content.
Individuals under close surveillance (3,000): A 2017 BBC report cited a counter-terrorism expert who said MI5 was "very concerned" about about 3,000 names on its watch list, with these people under "pretty regular surveillance". This figure aligns with the number of suspects involved in live operations mentioned above.
Wider extremist watch list (20,000+): The same 2017 report described a broader list of over 20,000 "extremists" in the UK who are not under constant surveillance but would be investigated if they exhibited suspicious behavior.
Individuals at risk of re-engaging in terrorism (40,000+): A 2020 Home Office statement revealed there were over 40,000 people that MI5 assessed as posing "some risk of them re-engaging in terrorist activity". This figure is part of a public petition to remove individuals on the terror watch list from the UK
"quoted by certain groups with an agenda to publicise". That'll be the Home Office then...
NOTE ; THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL STATEMENT NOR AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE THE THREAD A POLITICAL ONE. THE EXCHANGE AND CLARIFICATION OF DATA IS NOT POLITICAL. IT WILL ONLY GO THAT WAY IF ANYONE CHOOSES TO DO SO.
I think it probably needs the MI5 section posting in full as it contains some context. The distinction between 'subjects of interest' (SOI) and 'closed subjects of interest' (CSOI) is crucial to the 40k claim, as many of those are no longer subjects of interest and many of them are overseas anyway. The following can be found on page 31 of the document HM Government Transparency Report: Disruptive Powers 2018/19 for which you kindly provided a link:
6 – MI5 Investigations and Closed SOI’s
MI5 is investigating approximately 3000 subjects of interest (SOIs) across 600 priority
investigations. Each SOI will have a different amount of investigative resource allocated to them
depending on the threat they are judged to post. A significant number of these 3,000 SOIs are
located overseas.
MI5 only investigates SOIs when it believes the individual may pose a threat. As soon as MI5
judges that an SOI no longer poses a threat, that SOI is downgraded and placed in a ‘Closed’
category (called ‘CSOI’, or Closed Subject of Interest). This does not mean these SOIs will
never pose a threat again, but merely that their current level of threat is not judged to be
sufficient to prioritise allocating investigative resource against them. This situation could change
at any time requiring MI5 to re-assess the threat they pose and, where necessary, begin
investigating them again. For example, a CSOI might re-engage in their previous terrorist activity.
Since 2017, as part of the joint MI5-Counter-Terrorism Policing Operational Improvement
Review following the 2017 terrorist attacks, MI5 has reviewed the way it manages this pool of
CSOIs to ensure the right monitoring measures are in place to alert MI5 if the CSOI begins to
pose a threat that might justify renewed investigation. To assist with efficiently managing this
pool of CSOIs, a new system of sub-categories has been applied so that each CSOI is allocated
to a specific category depending on the potential risk of them re-engaging. In the sub-categories
where MI5 judges there to be some risk of re-engaging in terrorist activity (this risk varies
dependent on the sub-category), there are currently over 40,000 CSOIs.
In 2017, the public figure for the number of CSOIs was 20,000. A substantial element of the
increase to over 40,000 is the inclusion of individuals who have never travelled to the UK but
whose details have been passed to MI5 by foreign intelligence services, in order that MI5 be
alerted should they enter the UK. This new figure is not, therefore, directly comparable to the
previous 20,000 figure and it does not mean there are now over twice as many CSOIs at risk of
re-engagement.
Nevertheless, by its very nature, the CSOI figure will always increase year on year. MI5 is
constantly opening new investigations into individuals who come to its attention and then
closing SOIs when it is confident it has mitigated any threat they pose. Individuals generally
remain in a CSOI category unless they re-engage in terrorist activity (in which case they are
moved back into a priority investigation), or until a substantial amount of time has passed. This inevitably means that more individuals enter the CSOI pool than leave it.
I'm glad that we agree that the 40,000 claim is valid.
It's a cumulative total and most of those are closed cases, not currently being 'watched' and many not even in the UK,. The 40K figure is being portrayed as people being currently watched and in the UK, which is incorrect.
That certainly hasn't been suggested on this forum.
It's worth remembering that three of the four 5th July terrorists weren't on any watch list. One was but was determined as not being a threat. Two of the three London Bridge terrorists were not known to the authorities. etc etc ...
RodneyCharltontTrotter said:
40K plus on watch lists already and unknown/ undocumented people entering illegally by the hundreds each day/ week must only increase the risk.
MI5 does not publish an exact number of individuals on its watch list, but publicly available figures offer insight into the scale of counter-terrorism operations and the number of subjects of interest. Public figures indicate a multi-tiered approach to tracking individuals of concern.
Here is a breakdown of the numbers involved, based on figures from MI5 and Counter Terrorism Policing (CTP):
MI5 investigations (3,000 suspects): As of early 2025, MI5 and CTP were running more than 800 live counter-terrorism investigations involving approximately 3,000 subjects of interest. These are individuals suspected of being directly involved in terrorism, from planning attacks to sharing extremist content.
Individuals under close surveillance (3,000): A 2017 BBC report cited a counter-terrorism expert who said MI5 was "very concerned" about about 3,000 names on its watch list, with these people under "pretty regular surveillance". This figure aligns with the number of suspects involved in live operations mentioned above.
Wider extremist watch list (20,000+): The same 2017 report described a broader list of over 20,000 "extremists" in the UK who are not under constant surveillance but would be investigated if they exhibited suspicious behavior.
Individuals at risk of re-engaging in terrorism (40,000+): A 2020 Home Office statement revealed there were over 40,000 people that MI5 assessed as posing "some risk of them re-engaging in terrorist activity". This figure is part of a public petition to remove individuals on the terror watch list from the UK
"quoted by certain groups with an agenda to publicise". That'll be the Home Office then...
NOTE ; THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL STATEMENT NOR AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE THE THREAD A POLITICAL ONE. THE EXCHANGE AND CLARIFICATION OF DATA IS NOT POLITICAL. IT WILL ONLY GO THAT WAY IF ANYONE CHOOSES TO DO SO.
I think it probably needs the MI5 section posting in full as it contains some context. The distinction between 'subjects of interest' (SOI) and 'closed subjects of interest' (CSOI) is crucial to the 40k claim, as many of those are no longer subjects of interest and many of them are overseas anyway. The following can be found on page 31 of the document HM Government Transparency Report: Disruptive Powers 2018/19 for which you kindly provided a link:
6 – MI5 Investigations and Closed SOI’s
MI5 is investigating approximately 3000 subjects of interest (SOIs) across 600 priority
investigations. Each SOI will have a different amount of investigative resource allocated to them
depending on the threat they are judged to post. A significant number of these 3,000 SOIs are
located overseas.
MI5 only investigates SOIs when it believes the individual may pose a threat. As soon as MI5
judges that an SOI no longer poses a threat, that SOI is downgraded and placed in a ‘Closed’
category (called ‘CSOI’, or Closed Subject of Interest). This does not mean these SOIs will
never pose a threat again, but merely that their current level of threat is not judged to be
sufficient to prioritise allocating investigative resource against them. This situation could change
at any time requiring MI5 to re-assess the threat they pose and, where necessary, begin
investigating them again. For example, a CSOI might re-engage in their previous terrorist activity.
Since 2017, as part of the joint MI5-Counter-Terrorism Policing Operational Improvement
Review following the 2017 terrorist attacks, MI5 has reviewed the way it manages this pool of
CSOIs to ensure the right monitoring measures are in place to alert MI5 if the CSOI begins to
pose a threat that might justify renewed investigation. To assist with efficiently managing this
pool of CSOIs, a new system of sub-categories has been applied so that each CSOI is allocated
to a specific category depending on the potential risk of them re-engaging. In the sub-categories
where MI5 judges there to be some risk of re-engaging in terrorist activity (this risk varies
dependent on the sub-category), there are currently over 40,000 CSOIs.
In 2017, the public figure for the number of CSOIs was 20,000. A substantial element of the
increase to over 40,000 is the inclusion of individuals who have never travelled to the UK but
whose details have been passed to MI5 by foreign intelligence services, in order that MI5 be
alerted should they enter the UK. This new figure is not, therefore, directly comparable to the
previous 20,000 figure and it does not mean there are now over twice as many CSOIs at risk of
re-engagement.
Nevertheless, by its very nature, the CSOI figure will always increase year on year. MI5 is
constantly opening new investigations into individuals who come to its attention and then
closing SOIs when it is confident it has mitigated any threat they pose. Individuals generally
remain in a CSOI category unless they re-engage in terrorist activity (in which case they are
moved back into a priority investigation), or until a substantial amount of time has passed. This inevitably means that more individuals enter the CSOI pool than leave it.
I'm glad that we agree that the 40,000 claim is valid.
It's a cumulative total and most of those are closed cases, not currently being 'watched' and many not even in the UK,. The 40K figure is being portrayed as people being currently watched and in the UK, which is incorrect.
That certainly hasn't been suggested on this forum.
It's worth remembering that three of the four 5th July terrorists weren't on any watch list. One was but was determined as not being a threat. Two of the three London Bridge terrorists were not known to the authorities. etc etc ...
RodneyCharltontTrotter said:
40K plus on watch lists already and unknown/ undocumented people entering illegally by the hundreds each day/ week must only increase the risk.
And where does he state in that sentence that he's referring to them actively watching all 40k?
MI5 does not publish an exact number of individuals on its watch list, but publicly available figures offer insight into the scale of counter-terrorism operations and the number of subjects of interest. Public figures indicate a multi-tiered approach to tracking individuals of concern.
Here is a breakdown of the numbers involved, based on figures from MI5 and Counter Terrorism Policing (CTP):
MI5 investigations (3,000 suspects): As of early 2025, MI5 and CTP were running more than 800 live counter-terrorism investigations involving approximately 3,000 subjects of interest. These are individuals suspected of being directly involved in terrorism, from planning attacks to sharing extremist content.
Individuals under close surveillance (3,000): A 2017 BBC report cited a counter-terrorism expert who said MI5 was "very concerned" about about 3,000 names on its watch list, with these people under "pretty regular surveillance". This figure aligns with the number of suspects involved in live operations mentioned above.
Wider extremist watch list (20,000+): The same 2017 report described a broader list of over 20,000 "extremists" in the UK who are not under constant surveillance but would be investigated if they exhibited suspicious behavior.
Individuals at risk of re-engaging in terrorism (40,000+): A 2020 Home Office statement revealed there were over 40,000 people that MI5 assessed as posing "some risk of them re-engaging in terrorist activity". This figure is part of a public petition to remove individuals on the terror watch list from the UK
"quoted by certain groups with an agenda to publicise". That'll be the Home Office then...
NOTE ; THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL STATEMENT NOR AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE THE THREAD A POLITICAL ONE. THE EXCHANGE AND CLARIFICATION OF DATA IS NOT POLITICAL. IT WILL ONLY GO THAT WAY IF ANYONE CHOOSES TO DO SO.
I think it probably needs the MI5 section posting in full as it contains some context. The distinction between 'subjects of interest' (SOI) and 'closed subjects of interest' (CSOI) is crucial to the 40k claim, as many of those are no longer subjects of interest and many of them are overseas anyway. The following can be found on page 31 of the document HM Government Transparency Report: Disruptive Powers 2018/19 for which you kindly provided a link:
6 – MI5 Investigations and Closed SOI’s
MI5 is investigating approximately 3000 subjects of interest (SOIs) across 600 priority
investigations. Each SOI will have a different amount of investigative resource allocated to them
depending on the threat they are judged to post. A significant number of these 3,000 SOIs are
located overseas.
MI5 only investigates SOIs when it believes the individual may pose a threat. As soon as MI5
judges that an SOI no longer poses a threat, that SOI is downgraded and placed in a ‘Closed’
category (called ‘CSOI’, or Closed Subject of Interest). This does not mean these SOIs will
never pose a threat again, but merely that their current level of threat is not judged to be
sufficient to prioritise allocating investigative resource against them. This situation could change
at any time requiring MI5 to re-assess the threat they pose and, where necessary, begin
investigating them again. For example, a CSOI might re-engage in their previous terrorist activity.
Since 2017, as part of the joint MI5-Counter-Terrorism Policing Operational Improvement
Review following the 2017 terrorist attacks, MI5 has reviewed the way it manages this pool of
CSOIs to ensure the right monitoring measures are in place to alert MI5 if the CSOI begins to
pose a threat that might justify renewed investigation. To assist with efficiently managing this
pool of CSOIs, a new system of sub-categories has been applied so that each CSOI is allocated
to a specific category depending on the potential risk of them re-engaging. In the sub-categories
where MI5 judges there to be some risk of re-engaging in terrorist activity (this risk varies
dependent on the sub-category), there are currently over 40,000 CSOIs.
In 2017, the public figure for the number of CSOIs was 20,000. A substantial element of the
increase to over 40,000 is the inclusion of individuals who have never travelled to the UK but
whose details have been passed to MI5 by foreign intelligence services, in order that MI5 be
alerted should they enter the UK. This new figure is not, therefore, directly comparable to the
previous 20,000 figure and it does not mean there are now over twice as many CSOIs at risk of
re-engagement.
Nevertheless, by its very nature, the CSOI figure will always increase year on year. MI5 is
constantly opening new investigations into individuals who come to its attention and then
closing SOIs when it is confident it has mitigated any threat they pose. Individuals generally
remain in a CSOI category unless they re-engage in terrorist activity (in which case they are
moved back into a priority investigation), or until a substantial amount of time has passed. This inevitably means that more individuals enter the CSOI pool than leave it.
I'm glad that we agree that the 40,000 claim is valid.
It's a cumulative total and most of those are closed cases, not currently being 'watched' and many not even in the UK,. The 40K figure is being portrayed as people being currently watched and in the UK, which is incorrect.
That certainly hasn't been suggested on this forum.
It's worth remembering that three of the four 5th July terrorists weren't on any watch list. One was but was determined as not being a threat. Two of the three London Bridge terrorists were not known to the authorities. etc etc ...
RodneyCharltontTrotter said:
40K plus on watch lists already and unknown/ undocumented people entering illegally by the hundreds each day/ week must only increase the risk.
And where does he state in that sentence that he's referring to them actively watching all 40k?
When someone writes that there are 40k on watch lists already, the implication is that this is current, why else would they mention it? The truth is that most of those are not persons of concern any longer.
To be fair to @ME14addick I had assumed/ thought there was 40k being watched/ people of concern and my post did probably imply it.
Regardless of the exact number it's of great concern that there are many among us who wish us harm and thankful that the security services do such a sterling job to keep the warped lunatics at bay to the extent they do.
To be fair to @ME14addick I had assumed/ thought there was 40k being watched/ people of concern and my post did probably imply it.
Regardless of the exact number it's of great concern that there are many among us who wish us harm and thankful that the security services do such a sterling job to keep the warped lunatics at bay to the extent they do.
Quite remarkable really.
Thanks for the clarification.
Unfortunately the claim of 40K people being on a watch list is frequently shared on social media, as is the claim that people are coming here to harm us. There are good and bad people in every society. We live in a dangerous world with threats from many diverse ideologies.
To be fair to @ME14addick I had assumed/ thought there was 40k being watched/ people of concern and my post did probably imply it.
Regardless of the exact number it's of great concern that there are many among us who wish us harm and thankful that the security services do such a sterling job to keep the warped lunatics at bay to the extent they do.
Quite remarkable really.
Thanks for the clarification.
Unfortunately the claim of 40K people being on a watch list is frequently shared on social media, as is the claim that people are coming here to harm us. There are good and bad people in every society. We live in a dangerous world with threats from many diverse ideologies.
The primary threat in terms of terrorist threat in most of western Europe/ UK is, and has been for the past 20 years, from warped Islamist inspired ideology regardless of how that perception is often recently attempted to be skewed as "diverse ideologies" e.g. "far right" (whatever that even means these days by the way it's use has proliferate as a label ) being as prominent or prolific. (Not to say it doesn't exist of course)
We should not be letting undocumented people enter illegally into our country, and certainly not allow them to be roaming free when their background and identity is unknown particularly when they're coming from regions of the world where islamist ideologies may be prominent. This is of course not to say that a significant number of those illegally entering the UK each day are of such ideology....I don't believe that for one minute..but even one in every 1000 is one too many in respect of the potential atrocities one warped individual could unleash.
Comments
I think it probably needs the MI5 section posting in full as it contains some context. The distinction between 'subjects of interest' (SOI) and 'closed subjects of interest' (CSOI) is crucial to the 40k claim, as many of those are no longer subjects of interest and many of them are overseas anyway. The following can be found on page 31 of the document HM Government Transparency Report: Disruptive Powers 2018/19 for which you kindly provided a link:
6 – MI5 Investigations and Closed SOI’s
MI5 is investigating approximately 3000 subjects of interest (SOIs) across 600 priority investigations. Each SOI will have a different amount of investigative resource allocated to them depending on the threat they are judged to post. A significant number of these 3,000 SOIs are located overseas.
MI5 only investigates SOIs when it believes the individual may pose a threat. As soon as MI5 judges that an SOI no longer poses a threat, that SOI is downgraded and placed in a ‘Closed’ category (called ‘CSOI’, or Closed Subject of Interest). This does not mean these SOIs will never pose a threat again, but merely that their current level of threat is not judged to be sufficient to prioritise allocating investigative resource against them. This situation could change at any time requiring MI5 to re-assess the threat they pose and, where necessary, begin investigating them again. For example, a CSOI might re-engage in their previous terrorist activity.
Since 2017, as part of the joint MI5-Counter-Terrorism Policing Operational Improvement Review following the 2017 terrorist attacks, MI5 has reviewed the way it manages this pool of CSOIs to ensure the right monitoring measures are in place to alert MI5 if the CSOI begins to pose a threat that might justify renewed investigation. To assist with efficiently managing this pool of CSOIs, a new system of sub-categories has been applied so that each CSOI is allocated to a specific category depending on the potential risk of them re-engaging. In the sub-categories where MI5 judges there to be some risk of re-engaging in terrorist activity (this risk varies dependent on the sub-category), there are currently over 40,000 CSOIs. In 2017, the public figure for the number of CSOIs was 20,000. A substantial element of the increase to over 40,000 is the inclusion of individuals who have never travelled to the UK but whose details have been passed to MI5 by foreign intelligence services, in order that MI5 be alerted should they enter the UK. This new figure is not, therefore, directly comparable to the previous 20,000 figure and it does not mean there are now over twice as many CSOIs at risk of re-engagement.
Nevertheless, by its very nature, the CSOI figure will always increase year on year. MI5 is constantly opening new investigations into individuals who come to its attention and then closing SOIs when it is confident it has mitigated any threat they pose. Individuals generally remain in a CSOI category unless they re-engage in terrorist activity (in which case they are moved back into a priority investigation), or until a substantial amount of time has passed. This inevitably means that more individuals enter the CSOI pool than leave it.
https://www.icmec.org/global-missing-childrens-center/child-alerts/
It's worth remembering that three of the four 5th July terrorists weren't on any watch list. One was but was determined as not being a threat. Two of the three London Bridge terrorists were not known to the authorities. etc etc ...
40K plus on watch lists already and unknown/ undocumented people entering illegally by the hundreds each day/ week must only increase the risk.
Regardless of the exact number it's of great concern that there are many among us who wish us harm and thankful that the security services do such a sterling job to keep the warped lunatics at bay to the extent they do.
Quite remarkable really.
Perhaps my sound was turned down.
Unfortunately the claim of 40K people being on a watch list is frequently shared on social media, as is the claim that people are coming here to harm us. There are good and bad people in every society. We live in a dangerous world with threats from many diverse ideologies.
The primary threat in terms of terrorist threat in most of western Europe/ UK is, and has been for the past 20 years, from warped Islamist inspired ideology regardless of how that perception is often recently attempted to be skewed as "diverse ideologies" e.g. "far right" (whatever that even means these days by the way it's use has proliferate as a label ) being as prominent or prolific. (Not to say it doesn't exist of course)
We should not be letting undocumented people enter illegally into our country, and certainly not allow them to be roaming free when their background and identity is unknown particularly when they're coming from regions of the world where islamist ideologies may be prominent. This is of course not to say that a significant number of those illegally entering the UK each day are of such ideology....I don't believe that for one minute..but even one in every 1000 is one too many in respect of the potential atrocities one warped individual could unleash.