Partnership with Mount Pleasant Academy

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds. 

Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.

Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.

Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.

They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds. 

Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth. 

If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008? 

There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that. 

My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.

In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection. 

Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.

Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for? 

Okay how about this:

It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.

Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)

Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)

Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)

Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)

Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)

Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).

Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.

If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move? 

For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches. 

Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?


Anyway the main point is this: 

Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers. 
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers. 
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters. 

That's the difference. 

I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.

Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.

If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no? 

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds. 

Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.

Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.

Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.

They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds. 

Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth. 

If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008? 

There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that. 

My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.

In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection. 

Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.

Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for? 

Okay how about this:

It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.

Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)

Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)

Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)

Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)

Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)

Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).

Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.

If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move? 

For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches. 

Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?


Anyway the main point is this: 

Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers. 
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers. 
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters. 

That's the difference. 

I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.

Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.

If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no? 

No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.

There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.

soapboxsam said:

Chizz said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds. 

Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.

Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.

Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.

They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds. 

Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth. 

If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008? 

There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that. 

My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.

In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection. 

Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.

Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for? 

Okay how about this:

It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.

Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)

Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)

Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)

Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)

Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)

Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).

Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.

If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move? 

For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches. 

Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?


Anyway the main point is this: 

Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers. 
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers. 
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters. 

That's the difference. 

I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.

Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.

If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no? 

No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.

There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.

Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew.  Rachel Yankey. 

Yes, but other than the above what have the Romans ever done for us ?

balham red said:

Chizz said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds. 

Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.

Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.

Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.

They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds. 

Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth. 

If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008? 

There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that. 

My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.

In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection. 

Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.

Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for? 

Okay how about this:

It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.

Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)

Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)

Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)

Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)

Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)

Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).

Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.

If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move? 

For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches. 

Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?


Anyway the main point is this: 

Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers. 
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers. 
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters. 

That's the difference. 

I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.

Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.

If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no? 

No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.

There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.

Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew.  Rachel Yankey. 

Noble effort but if you remove the people that compete in non mainstream sports (let's say, *serious participation*, somewhat global adoption), people that have a significant foreign descent, people involved in sports that aren't athletically focused, and people who were never the best in the world...

I will give you Paula Radcliffe.

Andy Murray I think just about qualifies, but let's be honest, tennis does not have global adoption, just look at the demographics, it's wildly non representative).

Wayne Rooney, he certainly was never the best, but he was briefly there or thereabouts.

Calzaghe is up there.

Ronnie is the GOAT but participation level disqualifies him, neither is it athletic.

The rest dont qualify under the criteria. Tony Bellew 🤣 He was just a grifter and never beat a current champion, when there are umpteenth weight classes and 4 belts. Failed against any real tests. If you wanted to include another boxer there are better candidates.

You'd have been better off saying Joe Root but again global participation is so low.

Chizz said:

balham red said:

Chizz said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds. 

Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.

Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.

Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.

They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds. 

Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth. 

If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008? 

There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that. 

My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.

In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection. 

Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.

Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for? 

Okay how about this:

It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.

Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)

Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)

Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)

Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)

Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)

Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).

Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.

If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move? 

For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches. 

Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?


Anyway the main point is this: 

Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers. 
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers. 
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters. 

That's the difference. 

I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.

Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.

If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no? 

No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.

There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.

Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew.  Rachel Yankey. 

Noble effort but if you remove the people that compete in non mainstream sports (let's say, *serious participation*, somewhat global adoption), people that have a significant foreign descent, people involved in sports that aren't athletically focused, and people who were never the best in the world...

I will give you Paula Radcliffe.

Andy Murray I think just about qualifies, but let's be honest, tennis does not have global adoption, just look at the demographics, it's wildly non representative).

Wayne Rooney, he certainly was never the best, but he was briefly there or thereabouts.

Calzaghe is up there.

Ronnie is the GOAT but participation level disqualifies him, neither is it athletic.

The rest dont qualify under the criteria. Tony Bellew 🤣 He was just a grifter and never beat a current champion, when there are umpteenth weight classes and 4 belts. Failed against any real tests. If you wanted to include another boxer there are better candidates.

You'd have been better off saying Joe Root but again global participation is so low.

You're excluding Lennox Lewis, Laura Kenny, Jessica Ennis-Hill, Dina Asher-Smith, Lewis Hamilton, Kelly Holmes, Amir Khan, Beth Mead, Darren Campbell and Rachel Yankey because..?

Chizz said:

balham red said:

Chizz said:

balham red said:

Chizz said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds. 

Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.

Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.

Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.

They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds. 

Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth. 

If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008? 

There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that. 

My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.

In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection. 

Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.

Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for? 

Okay how about this:

It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.

Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)

Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)

Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)

Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)

Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)

Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).

Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.

If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move? 

For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches. 

Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?


Anyway the main point is this: 

Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers. 
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers. 
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters. 

That's the difference. 

I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.

Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.

If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no? 

No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.

There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.

Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew.  Rachel Yankey. 

Noble effort but if you remove the people that compete in non mainstream sports (let's say, *serious participation*, somewhat global adoption), people that have a significant foreign descent, people involved in sports that aren't athletically focused, and people who were never the best in the world...

I will give you Paula Radcliffe.

Andy Murray I think just about qualifies, but let's be honest, tennis does not have global adoption, just look at the demographics, it's wildly non representative).

Wayne Rooney, he certainly was never the best, but he was briefly there or thereabouts.

Calzaghe is up there.

Ronnie is the GOAT but participation level disqualifies him, neither is it athletic.

The rest dont qualify under the criteria. Tony Bellew 🤣 He was just a grifter and never beat a current champion, when there are umpteenth weight classes and 4 belts. Failed against any real tests. If you wanted to include another boxer there are better candidates.

You'd have been better off saying Joe Root but again global participation is so low.

You're excluding Lennox Lewis, Laura Kenny, Jessica Ennis-Hill, Dina Asher-Smith, Lewis Hamilton, Kelly Holmes, Amir Khan, Beth Mead, Darren Campbell and Rachel Yankey because..?

Well some of them prove the initial point...

Lennox Lewis- born to Jamican parents
Kelly Holmes- her father was Jamaican
Darren Campbell- father of Jamaican heritage
Dina Asher Smith- father from Jamaica
Jessica ennis hill- father is from Jamaica
Lewis Hamilton- father is from Grenada
Rachel Yankey- Ghanaian heritage
Amir Khan- Pakistani parents
Beth Mead- women's football is only taken seriously by a handful of well funded nations.

Wow

KiwiValley said:

Chizz said:

balham red said:

Chizz said:

balham red said:

Chizz said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds. 

Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.

Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.

Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.

They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds. 

Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth. 

If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008? 

There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that. 

My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.

In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection. 

Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.

Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for? 

Okay how about this:

It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.

Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)

Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)

Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)

Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)

Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)

Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).

Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.

If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move? 

For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches. 

Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?


Anyway the main point is this: 

Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers. 
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers. 
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters. 

That's the difference. 

I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.

Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.

If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no? 

No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.

There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.

Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew.  Rachel Yankey. 

Noble effort but if you remove the people that compete in non mainstream sports (let's say, *serious participation*, somewhat global adoption), people that have a significant foreign descent, people involved in sports that aren't athletically focused, and people who were never the best in the world...

I will give you Paula Radcliffe.

Andy Murray I think just about qualifies, but let's be honest, tennis does not have global adoption, just look at the demographics, it's wildly non representative).

Wayne Rooney, he certainly was never the best, but he was briefly there or thereabouts.

Calzaghe is up there.

Ronnie is the GOAT but participation level disqualifies him, neither is it athletic.

The rest dont qualify under the criteria. Tony Bellew 🤣 He was just a grifter and never beat a current champion, when there are umpteenth weight classes and 4 belts. Failed against any real tests. If you wanted to include another boxer there are better candidates.

You'd have been better off saying Joe Root but again global participation is so low.

You're excluding Lennox Lewis, Laura Kenny, Jessica Ennis-Hill, Dina Asher-Smith, Lewis Hamilton, Kelly Holmes, Amir Khan, Beth Mead, Darren Campbell and Rachel Yankey because..?

Well some of them prove the initial point...

Lennox Lewis- born to Jamican parents
Kelly Holmes- her father was Jamaican
Darren Campbell- father of Jamaican heritage
Dina Asher Smith- father from Jamaica
Jessica ennis hill- father is from Jamaica
Lewis Hamilton- father is from Grenada
Rachel Yankey- Ghanaian heritage
Amir Khan- Pakistani parents
Beth Mead- women's football is only taken seriously by a handful of well funded nations.

Wow

The two of you are at cross purposes. @balham_red is talking about ethnicity and genetics. Chizz you are talking about nationality. Ethnicity is a biological actuality. Nationality is an abstract construct that has caused the world's people an abundance of horrors.

To broaden the discussion beyond Jamaica. It is just a fact that African genetics have a higher likelihood of athletic success in excess of let's say Northern Europeans.

But that doesn't always extend to sports/disciplines requiring a certain level of financial resources (African nations have typically less money to burn on sport than Northern European countries). I am not expecting a Liberian Formula One team next year.

Some sports/disciplines also require certain natural resources or safe natural resources. You are not going to get many yachting champions out of Mali or Slalom Ski champs from Angola or kayaking champs from Kenya with its crocodile infested rivers. 

Also overlay the fact that most of the largest global sports and sports that appear in the Olympics are European in origin. Kabiddi is not an established international sport (beyond the Indian dispora). Ki-o-rahi the Maori sport is not appearing at the Olympics any time soon,  nor is the Zulu sport of Nguni stick fighting. 

It is not racist to say on average black people are faster or some other simplistic statement on athleticism. If it were, surely it would be more a racist put down of white people?

Being considered to be athletic does not exclude a people from being clever, artistic, a good orator, loving, moral, or any other qualities that we value.

Perhaps these sorts of debates can be weaponised to support racist ideologies but i think the average person can get past the bullshit.

A bit of a jumbled rant. Have at it.

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

KiwiValley said:

Chizz said:

balham red said:

Chizz said:

balham red said:

Chizz said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

balham red said:

SELR_addicks said:

I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds. 

Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.

Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.

Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.

They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds. 

Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth. 

If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008? 

There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that. 

My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.

In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection. 

Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.

Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for? 

Okay how about this:

It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.

Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)

Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)

Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)

Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)

Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)

Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).

Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.

If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move? 

For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches. 

Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?


Anyway the main point is this: 

Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers. 
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers. 
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters. 

That's the difference. 

I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.

Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.

If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no? 

No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.

There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.

Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew.  Rachel Yankey. 

Noble effort but if you remove the people that compete in non mainstream sports (let's say, *serious participation*, somewhat global adoption), people that have a significant foreign descent, people involved in sports that aren't athletically focused, and people who were never the best in the world...

I will give you Paula Radcliffe.

Andy Murray I think just about qualifies, but let's be honest, tennis does not have global adoption, just look at the demographics, it's wildly non representative).

Wayne Rooney, he certainly was never the best, but he was briefly there or thereabouts.

Calzaghe is up there.

Ronnie is the GOAT but participation level disqualifies him, neither is it athletic.

The rest dont qualify under the criteria. Tony Bellew 🤣 He was just a grifter and never beat a current champion, when there are umpteenth weight classes and 4 belts. Failed against any real tests. If you wanted to include another boxer there are better candidates.

You'd have been better off saying Joe Root but again global participation is so low.

You're excluding Lennox Lewis, Laura Kenny, Jessica Ennis-Hill, Dina Asher-Smith, Lewis Hamilton, Kelly Holmes, Amir Khan, Beth Mead, Darren Campbell and Rachel Yankey because..?

Well some of them prove the initial point...

Lennox Lewis- born to Jamican parents
Kelly Holmes- her father was Jamaican
Darren Campbell- father of Jamaican heritage
Dina Asher Smith- father from Jamaica
Jessica ennis hill- father is from Jamaica
Lewis Hamilton- father is from Grenada
Rachel Yankey- Ghanaian heritage
Amir Khan- Pakistani parents
Beth Mead- women's football is only taken seriously by a handful of well funded nations.

Wow

The two of you are at cross purposes. @balham_red is talking about ethnicity and genetics. Chizz you are talking about nationality. Ethnicity is a biological actuality. Nationality is an abstract construct that has caused the world's people an abundance of horrors.

To broaden the discussion beyond Jamaica. It is just a fact that African genetics have a higher likelihood of athletic success in excess of let's say Northern Europeans.

But that doesn't always extend to sports/disciplines requiring a certain level of financial resources (African nations have typically less money to burn on sport than Northern European countries). I am not expecting a Liberian Formula One team next year.

Some sports/disciplines also require certain natural resources or safe natural resources. You are not going to get many yachting champions out of Mali or Slalom Ski champs from Angola or kayaking champs from Kenya with its crocodile infested rivers. 

Also overlay the fact that most of the largest global sports and sports that appear in the Olympics are European in origin. Kabiddi is not an established international sport (beyond the Indian dispora). Ki-o-rahi the Maori sport is not appearing at the Olympics any time soon,  nor is the Zulu sport of Nguni stick fighting. 

It is not racist to say on average black people are faster or some other simplistic statement on athleticism. If it were, surely it would be more a racist put down of white people?

Being considered to be athletic does not exclude a people from being clever, artistic, a good orator, loving, moral, or any other qualities that we value.

Perhaps these sorts of debates can be weaponised to support racist ideologies but i think the average person can get past the bullshit.

A bit of a jumbled rant. Have at it.

balham_red started the entire conversation defending the idea of Jamaicans specifically having better genes than anywhere else in the world using reductive slavery psuedoscience. He was not talking about ethnicity. 

Then he said Amir Khan is actually genetically gifted because his parents are Pakistani though, so who has a clue what he was on about by the end. 

That is a fucking bullshit summary of what I said. You are a prick who is agitating to be outraged by other people's opinions.

Kiwi valleys post I completely agree with.

You said that Jamaica was better at athletics because of training compared to genetics. That prompted me to explain that it wasn't. And your opinion was blatantly later proved untrue since Chizz listed Britain's finest athletes which turned out to be half of them Jamaican heritage.

What a farce, both of you trying to paint me as "reductive", not believing immigrants can become British, and pro slavery, when ive said nothing of the sort, and plot twist... I am British Carribean heritage myself.

ElfsborgAddick said:

Cam @MillwallFan come on to calm things down.