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Comments
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If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no?balham red said:
I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.SELR_addicks said:
If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move?balham red said:
Okay how about this:SELR_addicks said:
Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for?balham red said:
My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.SELR_addicks said:
Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth.balham red said:
Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.SELR_addicks said:I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds.
Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.
Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.
They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds.
If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008?
There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that.
In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection.
Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.
It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.
For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches.
Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?
Anyway the main point is this:
Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers.
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers.
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters.
That's the difference.
Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.0 -
No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.SELR_addicks said:
If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no?balham red said:
I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.SELR_addicks said:
If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move?balham red said:
Okay how about this:SELR_addicks said:
Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for?balham red said:
My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.SELR_addicks said:
Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth.balham red said:
Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.SELR_addicks said:I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds.
Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.
Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.
They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds.
If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008?
There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that.
In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection.
Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.
It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.
For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches.
Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?
Anyway the main point is this:
Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers.
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers.
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters.
That's the difference.
Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.
There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.2 -
Dixon came from Jamaica but not Mount Pleasant. I do not believe there is anything more than an informal agreement with them.Athletico Charlton said:I wonder how much we paid for our tie up with Mount Pleasant, taking teams there and bring their teams here etc. must have been a fair whack and likely for little reward unless Dixon makes it.
And if we want a further link (not that we do) to the CM slavery nonsense, he once told me that he’d been impressed by some research done by Charlton fans that apparently the Mount Pleasant area originally included a plantation called Charlton. I’ve never shared that before as it seemed like made up rubbish and probably is.3 -
I didn’t use the word elite. Interesting you did.gringo said:
as opposed to your elitism generalisation?The Red Robin said:Went to the same school as Boris Johnson who always loved a racist generalisation. What more do you expect from Eton?0 -
Not untrue from a quick google:Weegie Addick said:
Dixon came from Jamaica but not Mount Pleasant. I do not believe there is anything more than an informal agreement with them.Athletico Charlton said:I wonder how much we paid for our tie up with Mount Pleasant, taking teams there and bring their teams here etc. must have been a fair whack and likely for little reward unless Dixon makes it.
And if we want a further link (not that we do) to the CM slavery nonsense, he once told me that he’d been impressed by some research done by Charlton fans that apparently the Mount Pleasant area originally included a plantation called Charlton. I’ve never shared that before as it seemed like made up rubbish and probably is.
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/estate/view/11703
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/claim/view/20845
"It's not clear why this estate is called Mount Pleasant in the compensation records and Charlton in other sources, but it's clearly the same estate. Possibly there was confusion with another Inglis Ellice estate called Mount Pleasant in St John's."0 -
Well there you go. Thanks for that.0
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hardlyThe Red Robin said:
I didn’t use the word elite. Interesting you did.gringo said:
as opposed to your elitism generalisation?The Red Robin said:Went to the same school as Boris Johnson who always loved a racist generalisation. What more do you expect from Eton?0 -
Why do we want a partnership with Mount Pleasant ?
They will only hit the post !
3 -
We are all homo sapiens with the odd percentage of Neanderthal mixed in. (Millwall fans have a higher %) Watch BBC's series 'Human' which is excellent.
No one liked the Neanderthals but they didn't care.
3 -
Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew. Rachel Yankey.balham red said:
No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.SELR_addicks said:
If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no?balham red said:
I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.SELR_addicks said:
If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move?balham red said:
Okay how about this:SELR_addicks said:
Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for?balham red said:
My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.SELR_addicks said:
Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth.balham red said:
Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.SELR_addicks said:I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds.
Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.
Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.
They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds.
If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008?
There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that.
In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection.
Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.
It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.
For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches.
Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?
Anyway the main point is this:
Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers.
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers.
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters.
That's the difference.
Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.
There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.1 -
Sponsored links:
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Chizz said:
Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew. Rachel Yankey.balham red said:
No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.SELR_addicks said:
If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no?balham red said:
I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.SELR_addicks said:
If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move?balham red said:
Okay how about this:SELR_addicks said:
Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for?balham red said:
My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.SELR_addicks said:
Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth.balham red said:
Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.SELR_addicks said:I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds.
Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.
Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.
They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds.
If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008?
There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that.
In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection.
Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.
It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.
For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches.
Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?
Anyway the main point is this:
Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers.
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers.
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters.
That's the difference.
Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.
There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.
Yes, but other than the above what have the Romans ever done for us ?0 -
Lettucesoapboxsam said:Chizz said:
Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew. Rachel Yankey.balham red said:
No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.SELR_addicks said:
If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no?balham red said:
I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.SELR_addicks said:
If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move?balham red said:
Okay how about this:SELR_addicks said:
Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for?balham red said:
My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.SELR_addicks said:
Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth.balham red said:
Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.SELR_addicks said:I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds.
Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.
Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.
They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds.
If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008?
There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that.
In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection.
Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.
It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.
For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches.
Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?
Anyway the main point is this:
Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers.
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers.
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters.
That's the difference.
Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.
There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.
Yes, but other than the above what have the Romans ever done for us ?0 -
Noble effort but if you remove the people that compete in non mainstream sports (let's say, *serious participation*, somewhat global adoption), people that have a significant foreign descent, people involved in sports that aren't athletically focused, and people who were never the best in the world...Chizz said:
Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew. Rachel Yankey.balham red said:
No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.SELR_addicks said:
If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no?balham red said:
I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.SELR_addicks said:
If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move?balham red said:
Okay how about this:SELR_addicks said:
Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for?balham red said:
My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.SELR_addicks said:
Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth.balham red said:
Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.SELR_addicks said:I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds.
Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.
Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.
They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds.
If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008?
There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that.
In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection.
Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.
It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.
For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches.
Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?
Anyway the main point is this:
Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers.
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers.
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters.
That's the difference.
Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.
There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.
I will give you Paula Radcliffe.
Andy Murray I think just about qualifies, but let's be honest, tennis does not have global adoption, just look at the demographics, it's wildly non representative).
Wayne Rooney, he certainly was never the best, but he was briefly there or thereabouts.
Calzaghe is up there.
Ronnie is the GOAT but participation level disqualifies him, neither is it athletic.
The rest dont qualify under the criteria. Tony Bellew 🤣 He was just a grifter and never beat a current champion, when there are umpteenth weight classes and 4 belts. Failed against any real tests. If you wanted to include another boxer there are better candidates.
You'd have been better off saying Joe Root but again global participation is so low.2 -
You're excluding Lennox Lewis, Laura Kenny, Jessica Ennis-Hill, Dina Asher-Smith, Lewis Hamilton, Kelly Holmes, Amir Khan, Beth Mead, Darren Campbell and Rachel Yankey because..?balham red said:
Noble effort but if you remove the people that compete in non mainstream sports (let's say, *serious participation*, somewhat global adoption), people that have a significant foreign descent, people involved in sports that aren't athletically focused, and people who were never the best in the world...Chizz said:
Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew. Rachel Yankey.balham red said:
No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.SELR_addicks said:
If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no?balham red said:
I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.SELR_addicks said:
If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move?balham red said:
Okay how about this:SELR_addicks said:
Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for?balham red said:
My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.SELR_addicks said:
Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth.balham red said:
Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.SELR_addicks said:I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds.
Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.
Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.
They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds.
If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008?
There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that.
In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection.
Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.
It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.
For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches.
Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?
Anyway the main point is this:
Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers.
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers.
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters.
That's the difference.
Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.
There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.
I will give you Paula Radcliffe.
Andy Murray I think just about qualifies, but let's be honest, tennis does not have global adoption, just look at the demographics, it's wildly non representative).
Wayne Rooney, he certainly was never the best, but he was briefly there or thereabouts.
Calzaghe is up there.
Ronnie is the GOAT but participation level disqualifies him, neither is it athletic.
The rest dont qualify under the criteria. Tony Bellew 🤣 He was just a grifter and never beat a current champion, when there are umpteenth weight classes and 4 belts. Failed against any real tests. If you wanted to include another boxer there are better candidates.
You'd have been better off saying Joe Root but again global participation is so low.4 -
I'm sorry, but this AI summary (which is definitely still reductive) merely serves to express why African Americans as a whole tend to outperform in running disciplines. It does not remotely justify Methven's apparent beliefs that due to preferential choice of slave stock over 200 years ago, Jamaica, more than any other African American community, dominates in disciplines whose physical advantages (speed) are in parallel at best to the apparently selected attributes of size and strength; less so does it excuse his utterly abhorrent slavedriver rhetoric that effectively attempts to post-hoc justify not only slavery itself but a selective formation of closed genetic pools of a slave-class (which nobody may enter or leave, so as to maintain the purity of this lucrative livestock). Culture, diet and so forth are ignored and what we have instead is horrifying eugenicist twaddle, and a true sense of what Methven thinks footballers, and especially black footballers, are: cattle.balham red said:Jamaica's genetic advantage for producing world-class sprinters stems from its unique history, specifically the transatlantic slave trade.The vast majority of the Jamaican population is of West and Central African descent. The people enslaved and brought to the island came from regions where a specific genetic trait, the **ACTN3 R variant**, was already highly prevalent. This gene is crucial for producing a protein that aids in the function of **fast-twitch muscle fibers**, which are essential for explosive movements like sprinting.Due to the **founder effect**, where the genetic traits of a small founding population become amplified over generations, the high frequency of this "sprinter gene" became a dominant feature in the Jamaican gene pool. This gave a larger portion of the population the genetic tools necessary for elite sprinting.3 -
Is this the right place to mention the beneficial effects of porridge for people born north of the border?0
-
Been replaced by deep fried mars bars.swordfish said:Is this the right place to mention the beneficial effects of porridge for people born north of the border?1 -
Well some of them prove the initial point...Chizz said:
You're excluding Lennox Lewis, Laura Kenny, Jessica Ennis-Hill, Dina Asher-Smith, Lewis Hamilton, Kelly Holmes, Amir Khan, Beth Mead, Darren Campbell and Rachel Yankey because..?balham red said:
Noble effort but if you remove the people that compete in non mainstream sports (let's say, *serious participation*, somewhat global adoption), people that have a significant foreign descent, people involved in sports that aren't athletically focused, and people who were never the best in the world...Chizz said:
Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew. Rachel Yankey.balham red said:
No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.SELR_addicks said:
If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no?balham red said:
I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.SELR_addicks said:
If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move?balham red said:
Okay how about this:SELR_addicks said:
Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for?balham red said:
My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.SELR_addicks said:
Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth.balham red said:
Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.SELR_addicks said:I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds.
Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.
Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.
They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds.
If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008?
There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that.
In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection.
Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.
It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.
For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches.
Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?
Anyway the main point is this:
Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers.
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers.
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters.
That's the difference.
Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.
There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.
I will give you Paula Radcliffe.
Andy Murray I think just about qualifies, but let's be honest, tennis does not have global adoption, just look at the demographics, it's wildly non representative).
Wayne Rooney, he certainly was never the best, but he was briefly there or thereabouts.
Calzaghe is up there.
Ronnie is the GOAT but participation level disqualifies him, neither is it athletic.
The rest dont qualify under the criteria. Tony Bellew 🤣 He was just a grifter and never beat a current champion, when there are umpteenth weight classes and 4 belts. Failed against any real tests. If you wanted to include another boxer there are better candidates.
You'd have been better off saying Joe Root but again global participation is so low.
Lennox Lewis- born to Jamican parents
Kelly Holmes- her father was Jamaican
Darren Campbell- father of Jamaican heritage
Dina Asher Smith- father from Jamaica
Jessica ennis hill- father is from Jamaica
Lewis Hamilton- father is from Grenada
Rachel Yankey- Ghanaian heritage
Amir Khan- Pakistani parents
Beth Mead- women's football is only taken seriously by a handful of well funded nations.0 -
I wasn't trying to justify Methven or slavery. It was just explaining why Jamaicans have elite athletic genes.Leuth said:
I'm sorry, but this AI summary (which is definitely still reductive) merely serves to express why African Americans as a whole tend to outperform in running disciplines. It does not remotely justify Methven's apparent beliefs that due to preferential choice of slave stock over 200 years ago, Jamaica, more than any other African American community, dominates in disciplines whose physical advantages (speed) are in parallel at best to the apparently selected attributes of size and strength; less so does it excuse his utterly abhorrent slavedriver rhetoric that effectively attempts to post-hoc justify not only slavery itself but a selective formation of closed genetic pools of a slave-class (which nobody may enter or leave, so as to maintain the purity of this lucrative livestock). Culture, diet and so forth are ignored and what we have instead is horrifying eugenicist twaddle, and a true sense of what Methven thinks footballers, and especially black footballers, are: cattle.balham red said:Jamaica's genetic advantage for producing world-class sprinters stems from its unique history, specifically the transatlantic slave trade.The vast majority of the Jamaican population is of West and Central African descent. The people enslaved and brought to the island came from regions where a specific genetic trait, the **ACTN3 R variant**, was already highly prevalent. This gene is crucial for producing a protein that aids in the function of **fast-twitch muscle fibers**, which are essential for explosive movements like sprinting.Due to the **founder effect**, where the genetic traits of a small founding population become amplified over generations, the high frequency of this "sprinter gene" became a dominant feature in the Jamaican gene pool. This gave a larger portion of the population the genetic tools necessary for elite sprinting.0 -
When the opposition get dangerously near to our goal my twitch mechanism goes into overdrive because I have the **ACTN3 R variant ** gene.
That also explains my natural sense of rhythm.0 -
Sponsored links:
-
Wowbalham red said:
Well some of them prove the initial point...Chizz said:
You're excluding Lennox Lewis, Laura Kenny, Jessica Ennis-Hill, Dina Asher-Smith, Lewis Hamilton, Kelly Holmes, Amir Khan, Beth Mead, Darren Campbell and Rachel Yankey because..?balham red said:
Noble effort but if you remove the people that compete in non mainstream sports (let's say, *serious participation*, somewhat global adoption), people that have a significant foreign descent, people involved in sports that aren't athletically focused, and people who were never the best in the world...Chizz said:
Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew. Rachel Yankey.balham red said:
No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.SELR_addicks said:
If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no?balham red said:
I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.SELR_addicks said:
If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move?balham red said:
Okay how about this:SELR_addicks said:
Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for?balham red said:
My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.SELR_addicks said:
Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth.balham red said:
Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.SELR_addicks said:I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds.
Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.
Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.
They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds.
If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008?
There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that.
In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection.
Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.
It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.
For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches.
Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?
Anyway the main point is this:
Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers.
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers.
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters.
That's the difference.
Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.
There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.
I will give you Paula Radcliffe.
Andy Murray I think just about qualifies, but let's be honest, tennis does not have global adoption, just look at the demographics, it's wildly non representative).
Wayne Rooney, he certainly was never the best, but he was briefly there or thereabouts.
Calzaghe is up there.
Ronnie is the GOAT but participation level disqualifies him, neither is it athletic.
The rest dont qualify under the criteria. Tony Bellew 🤣 He was just a grifter and never beat a current champion, when there are umpteenth weight classes and 4 belts. Failed against any real tests. If you wanted to include another boxer there are better candidates.
You'd have been better off saying Joe Root but again global participation is so low.
Lennox Lewis- born to Jamican parents
Kelly Holmes- her father was Jamaican
Darren Campbell- father of Jamaican heritage
Dina Asher Smith- father from Jamaica
Jessica ennis hill- father is from Jamaica
Lewis Hamilton- father is from Grenada
Rachel Yankey- Ghanaian heritage
Amir Khan- Pakistani parents
Beth Mead- women's football is only taken seriously by a handful of well funded nations.0 -
Wow what?Chizz said:
Wowbalham red said:
Well some of them prove the initial point...Chizz said:
You're excluding Lennox Lewis, Laura Kenny, Jessica Ennis-Hill, Dina Asher-Smith, Lewis Hamilton, Kelly Holmes, Amir Khan, Beth Mead, Darren Campbell and Rachel Yankey because..?balham red said:
Noble effort but if you remove the people that compete in non mainstream sports (let's say, *serious participation*, somewhat global adoption), people that have a significant foreign descent, people involved in sports that aren't athletically focused, and people who were never the best in the world...Chizz said:
Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew. Rachel Yankey.balham red said:
No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.SELR_addicks said:
If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no?balham red said:
I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.SELR_addicks said:
If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move?balham red said:
Okay how about this:SELR_addicks said:
Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for?balham red said:
My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.SELR_addicks said:
Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth.balham red said:
Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.SELR_addicks said:I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds.
Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.
Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.
They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds.
If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008?
There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that.
In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection.
Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.
It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.
For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches.
Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?
Anyway the main point is this:
Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers.
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers.
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters.
That's the difference.
Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.
There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.
I will give you Paula Radcliffe.
Andy Murray I think just about qualifies, but let's be honest, tennis does not have global adoption, just look at the demographics, it's wildly non representative).
Wayne Rooney, he certainly was never the best, but he was briefly there or thereabouts.
Calzaghe is up there.
Ronnie is the GOAT but participation level disqualifies him, neither is it athletic.
The rest dont qualify under the criteria. Tony Bellew 🤣 He was just a grifter and never beat a current champion, when there are umpteenth weight classes and 4 belts. Failed against any real tests. If you wanted to include another boxer there are better candidates.
You'd have been better off saying Joe Root but again global participation is so low.
Lennox Lewis- born to Jamican parents
Kelly Holmes- her father was Jamaican
Darren Campbell- father of Jamaican heritage
Dina Asher Smith- father from Jamaica
Jessica ennis hill- father is from Jamaica
Lewis Hamilton- father is from Grenada
Rachel Yankey- Ghanaian heritage
Amir Khan- Pakistani parents
Beth Mead- women's football is only taken seriously by a handful of well funded nations.1 -
The two of you are at cross purposes. @balham_red is talking about ethnicity and genetics. Chizz you are talking about nationality. Ethnicity is a biological actuality. Nationality is an abstract construct that has caused the world's people an abundance of horrors.Chizz said:
Wowbalham red said:
Well some of them prove the initial point...Chizz said:
You're excluding Lennox Lewis, Laura Kenny, Jessica Ennis-Hill, Dina Asher-Smith, Lewis Hamilton, Kelly Holmes, Amir Khan, Beth Mead, Darren Campbell and Rachel Yankey because..?balham red said:
Noble effort but if you remove the people that compete in non mainstream sports (let's say, *serious participation*, somewhat global adoption), people that have a significant foreign descent, people involved in sports that aren't athletically focused, and people who were never the best in the world...Chizz said:
Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew. Rachel Yankey.balham red said:
No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.SELR_addicks said:
If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no?balham red said:
I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.SELR_addicks said:
If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move?balham red said:
Okay how about this:SELR_addicks said:
Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for?balham red said:
My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.SELR_addicks said:
Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth.balham red said:
Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.SELR_addicks said:I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds.
Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.
Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.
They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds.
If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008?
There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that.
In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection.
Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.
It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.
For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches.
Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?
Anyway the main point is this:
Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers.
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers.
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters.
That's the difference.
Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.
There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.
I will give you Paula Radcliffe.
Andy Murray I think just about qualifies, but let's be honest, tennis does not have global adoption, just look at the demographics, it's wildly non representative).
Wayne Rooney, he certainly was never the best, but he was briefly there or thereabouts.
Calzaghe is up there.
Ronnie is the GOAT but participation level disqualifies him, neither is it athletic.
The rest dont qualify under the criteria. Tony Bellew 🤣 He was just a grifter and never beat a current champion, when there are umpteenth weight classes and 4 belts. Failed against any real tests. If you wanted to include another boxer there are better candidates.
You'd have been better off saying Joe Root but again global participation is so low.
Lennox Lewis- born to Jamican parents
Kelly Holmes- her father was Jamaican
Darren Campbell- father of Jamaican heritage
Dina Asher Smith- father from Jamaica
Jessica ennis hill- father is from Jamaica
Lewis Hamilton- father is from Grenada
Rachel Yankey- Ghanaian heritage
Amir Khan- Pakistani parents
Beth Mead- women's football is only taken seriously by a handful of well funded nations.
To broaden the discussion beyond Jamaica. It is just a fact that African genetics have a higher likelihood of athletic success in excess of let's say Northern Europeans.
But that doesn't always extend to sports/disciplines requiring a certain level of financial resources (African nations have typically less money to burn on sport than Northern European countries). I am not expecting a Liberian Formula One team next year.
Some sports/disciplines also require certain natural resources or safe natural resources. You are not going to get many yachting champions out of Mali or Slalom Ski champs from Angola or kayaking champs from Kenya with its crocodile infested rivers.
Also overlay the fact that most of the largest global sports and sports that appear in the Olympics are European in origin. Kabiddi is not an established international sport (beyond the Indian dispora). Ki-o-rahi the Maori sport is not appearing at the Olympics any time soon, nor is the Zulu sport of Nguni stick fighting.
It is not racist to say on average black people are faster or some other simplistic statement on athleticism. If it were, surely it would be more a racist put down of white people?
Being considered to be athletic does not exclude a people from being clever, artistic, a good orator, loving, moral, or any other qualities that we value.
Perhaps these sorts of debates can be weaponised to support racist ideologies but i think the average person can get past the bullshit.
A bit of a jumbled rant. Have at it.
2 -
balham_red started the entire conversation defending the idea of Jamaicans specifically having better genes than anywhere else in the world using reductive slavery psuedoscience. He was not talking about ethnicity.KiwiValley said:
The two of you are at cross purposes. @balham_red is talking about ethnicity and genetics. Chizz you are talking about nationality. Ethnicity is a biological actuality. Nationality is an abstract construct that has caused the world's people an abundance of horrors.Chizz said:
Wowbalham red said:
Well some of them prove the initial point...Chizz said:
You're excluding Lennox Lewis, Laura Kenny, Jessica Ennis-Hill, Dina Asher-Smith, Lewis Hamilton, Kelly Holmes, Amir Khan, Beth Mead, Darren Campbell and Rachel Yankey because..?balham red said:
Noble effort but if you remove the people that compete in non mainstream sports (let's say, *serious participation*, somewhat global adoption), people that have a significant foreign descent, people involved in sports that aren't athletically focused, and people who were never the best in the world...Chizz said:
Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew. Rachel Yankey.balham red said:
No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.SELR_addicks said:
If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no?balham red said:
I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.SELR_addicks said:
If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move?balham red said:
Okay how about this:SELR_addicks said:
Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for?balham red said:
My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.SELR_addicks said:
Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth.balham red said:
Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.SELR_addicks said:I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds.
Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.
Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.
They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds.
If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008?
There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that.
In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection.
Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.
It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.
For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches.
Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?
Anyway the main point is this:
Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers.
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers.
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters.
That's the difference.
Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.
There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.
I will give you Paula Radcliffe.
Andy Murray I think just about qualifies, but let's be honest, tennis does not have global adoption, just look at the demographics, it's wildly non representative).
Wayne Rooney, he certainly was never the best, but he was briefly there or thereabouts.
Calzaghe is up there.
Ronnie is the GOAT but participation level disqualifies him, neither is it athletic.
The rest dont qualify under the criteria. Tony Bellew 🤣 He was just a grifter and never beat a current champion, when there are umpteenth weight classes and 4 belts. Failed against any real tests. If you wanted to include another boxer there are better candidates.
You'd have been better off saying Joe Root but again global participation is so low.
Lennox Lewis- born to Jamican parents
Kelly Holmes- her father was Jamaican
Darren Campbell- father of Jamaican heritage
Dina Asher Smith- father from Jamaica
Jessica ennis hill- father is from Jamaica
Lewis Hamilton- father is from Grenada
Rachel Yankey- Ghanaian heritage
Amir Khan- Pakistani parents
Beth Mead- women's football is only taken seriously by a handful of well funded nations.
To broaden the discussion beyond Jamaica. It is just a fact that African genetics have a higher likelihood of athletic success in excess of let's say Northern Europeans.
But that doesn't always extend to sports/disciplines requiring a certain level of financial resources (African nations have typically less money to burn on sport than Northern European countries). I am not expecting a Liberian Formula One team next year.
Some sports/disciplines also require certain natural resources or safe natural resources. You are not going to get many yachting champions out of Mali or Slalom Ski champs from Angola or kayaking champs from Kenya with its crocodile infested rivers.
Also overlay the fact that most of the largest global sports and sports that appear in the Olympics are European in origin. Kabiddi is not an established international sport (beyond the Indian dispora). Ki-o-rahi the Maori sport is not appearing at the Olympics any time soon, nor is the Zulu sport of Nguni stick fighting.
It is not racist to say on average black people are faster or some other simplistic statement on athleticism. If it were, surely it would be more a racist put down of white people?
Being considered to be athletic does not exclude a people from being clever, artistic, a good orator, loving, moral, or any other qualities that we value.
Perhaps these sorts of debates can be weaponised to support racist ideologies but i think the average person can get past the bullshit.
A bit of a jumbled rant. Have at it.
Then he said Amir Khan is actually genetically gifted because his parents are Pakistani though, so who has a clue what he was on about by the end.1 -
That is a fucking bullshit summary of what I said. You are a prick who is agitating to be outraged by other people's opinions.SELR_addicks said:
balham_red started the entire conversation defending the idea of Jamaicans specifically having better genes than anywhere else in the world using reductive slavery psuedoscience. He was not talking about ethnicity.KiwiValley said:
The two of you are at cross purposes. @balham_red is talking about ethnicity and genetics. Chizz you are talking about nationality. Ethnicity is a biological actuality. Nationality is an abstract construct that has caused the world's people an abundance of horrors.Chizz said:
Wowbalham red said:
Well some of them prove the initial point...Chizz said:
You're excluding Lennox Lewis, Laura Kenny, Jessica Ennis-Hill, Dina Asher-Smith, Lewis Hamilton, Kelly Holmes, Amir Khan, Beth Mead, Darren Campbell and Rachel Yankey because..?balham red said:
Noble effort but if you remove the people that compete in non mainstream sports (let's say, *serious participation*, somewhat global adoption), people that have a significant foreign descent, people involved in sports that aren't athletically focused, and people who were never the best in the world...Chizz said:
Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew. Rachel Yankey.balham red said:
No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.SELR_addicks said:
If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no?balham red said:
I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.SELR_addicks said:
If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move?balham red said:
Okay how about this:SELR_addicks said:
Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for?balham red said:
My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.SELR_addicks said:
Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth.balham red said:
Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.SELR_addicks said:I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds.
Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.
Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.
They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds.
If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008?
There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that.
In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection.
Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.
It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.
For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches.
Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?
Anyway the main point is this:
Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers.
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers.
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters.
That's the difference.
Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.
There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.
I will give you Paula Radcliffe.
Andy Murray I think just about qualifies, but let's be honest, tennis does not have global adoption, just look at the demographics, it's wildly non representative).
Wayne Rooney, he certainly was never the best, but he was briefly there or thereabouts.
Calzaghe is up there.
Ronnie is the GOAT but participation level disqualifies him, neither is it athletic.
The rest dont qualify under the criteria. Tony Bellew 🤣 He was just a grifter and never beat a current champion, when there are umpteenth weight classes and 4 belts. Failed against any real tests. If you wanted to include another boxer there are better candidates.
You'd have been better off saying Joe Root but again global participation is so low.
Lennox Lewis- born to Jamican parents
Kelly Holmes- her father was Jamaican
Darren Campbell- father of Jamaican heritage
Dina Asher Smith- father from Jamaica
Jessica ennis hill- father is from Jamaica
Lewis Hamilton- father is from Grenada
Rachel Yankey- Ghanaian heritage
Amir Khan- Pakistani parents
Beth Mead- women's football is only taken seriously by a handful of well funded nations.
To broaden the discussion beyond Jamaica. It is just a fact that African genetics have a higher likelihood of athletic success in excess of let's say Northern Europeans.
But that doesn't always extend to sports/disciplines requiring a certain level of financial resources (African nations have typically less money to burn on sport than Northern European countries). I am not expecting a Liberian Formula One team next year.
Some sports/disciplines also require certain natural resources or safe natural resources. You are not going to get many yachting champions out of Mali or Slalom Ski champs from Angola or kayaking champs from Kenya with its crocodile infested rivers.
Also overlay the fact that most of the largest global sports and sports that appear in the Olympics are European in origin. Kabiddi is not an established international sport (beyond the Indian dispora). Ki-o-rahi the Maori sport is not appearing at the Olympics any time soon, nor is the Zulu sport of Nguni stick fighting.
It is not racist to say on average black people are faster or some other simplistic statement on athleticism. If it were, surely it would be more a racist put down of white people?
Being considered to be athletic does not exclude a people from being clever, artistic, a good orator, loving, moral, or any other qualities that we value.
Perhaps these sorts of debates can be weaponised to support racist ideologies but i think the average person can get past the bullshit.
A bit of a jumbled rant. Have at it.
Then he said Amir Khan is actually genetically gifted because his parents are Pakistani though, so who has a clue what he was on about by the end.
Kiwi valleys post I completely agree with.
You said that Jamaica was better at athletics because of training compared to genetics. That prompted me to explain that it wasn't. And your opinion was blatantly later proved untrue since Chizz listed Britain's finest athletes which turned out to be half of them Jamaican heritage.
What a farce, both of you trying to paint me as "reductive", not believing immigrants can become British, and pro slavery, when ive said nothing of the sort, and plot twist... I am British Carribean heritage myself.
3 -
Leuth's post above explains far better than I would myself.balham red said:
That is a fucking bullshit summary of what I said. You are a prick who is agitating to be outraged by other people's opinions.SELR_addicks said:
balham_red started the entire conversation defending the idea of Jamaicans specifically having better genes than anywhere else in the world using reductive slavery psuedoscience. He was not talking about ethnicity.KiwiValley said:
The two of you are at cross purposes. @balham_red is talking about ethnicity and genetics. Chizz you are talking about nationality. Ethnicity is a biological actuality. Nationality is an abstract construct that has caused the world's people an abundance of horrors.Chizz said:
Wowbalham red said:
Well some of them prove the initial point...Chizz said:
You're excluding Lennox Lewis, Laura Kenny, Jessica Ennis-Hill, Dina Asher-Smith, Lewis Hamilton, Kelly Holmes, Amir Khan, Beth Mead, Darren Campbell and Rachel Yankey because..?balham red said:
Noble effort but if you remove the people that compete in non mainstream sports (let's say, *serious participation*, somewhat global adoption), people that have a significant foreign descent, people involved in sports that aren't athletically focused, and people who were never the best in the world...Chizz said:
Ronnie O'Sullivan. Andy Murray. Lennox Lewis. Laura Kenny. Jessica Ennis-Hill. Dina Asher-Smith. Lewis Hamilton. Kelly Holmes. Amir Khan. Wayne Rooney. Paula Radcliffe. Joe Calzaghe. Beth Mead. Darren Campbell. Tony Bellew. Rachel Yankey.balham red said:
No if you look at British successes, many of them are in fields where we had strong advantages in terms of participation, training, funding, opportunity or where the athlete has foreign descent.SELR_addicks said:
If you look at our sporting success over the last couple of hundred years in a multitude of events and disciplines, surely we have a genetic advantage in producing athletes too no?balham red said:
I dunno man, half of your points above match with my points, and some of your others I also agree with.SELR_addicks said:
If they have such a genetic advantage, why did they move?balham red said:
Okay how about this:SELR_addicks said:
Well what do you think a national programme for sprinting and athletics is for?balham red said:
My first comment was from Gemini AI, it wasn't an opinion piece. It says they have advantageous genetics because the founders of the population happened to be blessed with the ACTN3 R variant gene, which promotes fast twitch muscle fibre.SELR_addicks said:
Agree but you are saying specifically Jamaica have an advantage over every other nation because they have genetics that are not prevalent in any other nation on Earth.balham red said:
Being able to run 100m in 10 seconds is an incredible feat, a gift from god. No amount of training will get you there if youre not built with elite genetics.SELR_addicks said:I'm sure professional training and a national programme around sprinting and athletics probably helps a bit more than the assumption that babies are coming out of the womb being able to do 100m in 10 seconds.
Same goes for the strongest weightlifters and the smartest physicists.
Training, education and dedication is required in addition to elite genetics in the specific field to be among the world's best.
They could have taken me as a baby and trained me every day of my life to be a 100m sprinter with the best coaches around and I wouldn't be able to run 100m in 10 seconds.
If that's so, why has only one male Jamaican won an olympic gold in the 100m throughout Olympic history? Or did this natural advantage only occur after 2008?
There are people that will be naturally more gifted than other people at specific sports/talents/crafts, you don't need pseudoscience nonsense about slavery to claim that.
In terms of the 100m winners, the world's best will have the best combination of genetics, training, dedication, and sadly most likely, the best doctors well versed in PED use without detection.
Jamaicas generation of elite runners were most probably aided by PEDs in any case. As you note yourself, it is odd how they suddenly had a handful of dominant athletes at the same time.
It has long been noted that a striking number of elite sprinters from all around the world, including North America and Europe, have genetic ties to the Caribbean and especially Jamaica.Donovan Bailey (Canadian from Jamaica)Bruny Surin (Canadian from Haiti)Ben Johnson (Canadian from Jamaica)Linford Christie (Briton from Jamaica)Ato Boldon (Trinidadian who spend most of his life in the US, mother is Jamaican)Zharnel Hughes (Briton from Anguilla).Not only are the two fastest Canadians (three if you count BJ) from the Caribbean, but also the two fastest Britons, who ran 25 years apart.
For elite training, strength and conditioning work alongside elite coaches.
Natural talent/genetics isn't enough. An Italian won in 2020, do we need to claim he won because there's some genetic advantage to being born in Texas or something? Or is it because he made the most of the talent he was gifted with?
Anyway the main point is this:
Quick youngsters in this country/Europe/South America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wingers/strikers/footballers.
Quick youngsters in America that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become wide receivers/running backs/American footballers.
Quick youngsters in the Carribbean that have physical gifts are more likely than not going to attempt to become sprinters.
That's the difference.
Just think its indisputable that Jamaica has superb athlete genetics, as much as the UK has indisputable manky teeth genetics. Its all in the numbers.
There are of course exceptions, but ill bet that you would struggle to name more than 5 athletes that were the best in the world for a mainstream competitive sport in modern era that dont fall under the advantages I mention.
I will give you Paula Radcliffe.
Andy Murray I think just about qualifies, but let's be honest, tennis does not have global adoption, just look at the demographics, it's wildly non representative).
Wayne Rooney, he certainly was never the best, but he was briefly there or thereabouts.
Calzaghe is up there.
Ronnie is the GOAT but participation level disqualifies him, neither is it athletic.
The rest dont qualify under the criteria. Tony Bellew 🤣 He was just a grifter and never beat a current champion, when there are umpteenth weight classes and 4 belts. Failed against any real tests. If you wanted to include another boxer there are better candidates.
You'd have been better off saying Joe Root but again global participation is so low.
Lennox Lewis- born to Jamican parents
Kelly Holmes- her father was Jamaican
Darren Campbell- father of Jamaican heritage
Dina Asher Smith- father from Jamaica
Jessica ennis hill- father is from Jamaica
Lewis Hamilton- father is from Grenada
Rachel Yankey- Ghanaian heritage
Amir Khan- Pakistani parents
Beth Mead- women's football is only taken seriously by a handful of well funded nations.
To broaden the discussion beyond Jamaica. It is just a fact that African genetics have a higher likelihood of athletic success in excess of let's say Northern Europeans.
But that doesn't always extend to sports/disciplines requiring a certain level of financial resources (African nations have typically less money to burn on sport than Northern European countries). I am not expecting a Liberian Formula One team next year.
Some sports/disciplines also require certain natural resources or safe natural resources. You are not going to get many yachting champions out of Mali or Slalom Ski champs from Angola or kayaking champs from Kenya with its crocodile infested rivers.
Also overlay the fact that most of the largest global sports and sports that appear in the Olympics are European in origin. Kabiddi is not an established international sport (beyond the Indian dispora). Ki-o-rahi the Maori sport is not appearing at the Olympics any time soon, nor is the Zulu sport of Nguni stick fighting.
It is not racist to say on average black people are faster or some other simplistic statement on athleticism. If it were, surely it would be more a racist put down of white people?
Being considered to be athletic does not exclude a people from being clever, artistic, a good orator, loving, moral, or any other qualities that we value.
Perhaps these sorts of debates can be weaponised to support racist ideologies but i think the average person can get past the bullshit.
A bit of a jumbled rant. Have at it.
Then he said Amir Khan is actually genetically gifted because his parents are Pakistani though, so who has a clue what he was on about by the end.
Kiwi valleys post I completely agree with.
You said that Jamaica was better at athletics because of training compared to genetics. That prompted me to explain that it wasn't. And your opinion was blatantly later proved untrue since Chizz listed Britain's finest athletes which turned out to be half of them Jamaican heritage.
What a farce, both of you trying to paint me as "reductive", not believing immigrants can become British, and pro slavery, when ive said nothing of the sort, and plot twist... I am British Carribean heritage myself.
The focus on Jamaica in particular is my point of contention and why they would be so separated to the rest of the nations that also suffered in the Carribean/USA or Africa.0 -
Cam @MillwallFan come on to calm things down.2
-
I wish someone wouldElfsborgAddick said:Cam @MillwallFan come on to calm things down.
The thread has become farcical0 -
ElfsborgAddick said:Cam @MillwallFan come on to calm things down.
Millwall fan is always prepared to throw his cap into the ring !
I truly believe it's pre season nerves why there are so many studs up comments.
CL have never been a good platform for taboo subjects; it always gets ugly.
Thankfully the football starts for real on Saturday.
1
