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Savings and Investments thread
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Let's not forget that Starmer has a tax free pension arrangement and probably a considerable net worth while the rest of us are trying to look after our hard earned. IHT really boils my piss.
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"Prime Minister Keir Starmer on Thursday faced a Cabinet backlash over planned spending cuts, with several ministers writing to the Prime Minister directly to express concern about proposals to reduce their departmental spending by as much as 20%." (Alliance News)
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Nothing wrong with IHT imo. Lots of ways you can give or invest your wealth before you die. Ime people dont want to let go of it, even if it's in Trust to named beneficiaries.red10 said:Let's not forget that Starmer has a tax free pension arrangement and probably a considerable net worth while the rest of us are trying to look after our hard earned. IHT really boils my piss.
However, most wealth is tied up in property. (Old) people need to realise this & downsize before they die. Release equity & then give this away to their heirs.
What would be fair in the Budget would be an increasing level of tax based on property values. First £500k no tax. Next £500k 20%, anything over £1m then 40%.1 -
Just in case anyone is not aware and would benefit from this, there is currently an additional relief from inheritance tax if you are able to gift monies on a regular basis out of after tax surplus income, i.e. more than the £3,000 annual exemption.
I am currently putting money each year into Junior ISAs for three grandchildren and until I became aware of this a couple of years thought there was a potential IHT exposure on any excess over and above the £3k per annum I was contributing to these ISAs. However, if you can compile records for each tax year demonstrating you can afford to gift these monies out of surplus after tax income (including that from investment income), then those monies are not subject to IHT. The attached link outlines the record-keeping required. I just wait until I have submitted my tax return each year and then update a spreadsheet showing my income, expenditures (best estimate) and annual gifts for the tax year and keep this in a file along with my will in order my executors can use it when the time comes.
Obviously, I hope this relief isn't changed in the forthcoming budget!
https://www.gabyhardwicke.co.uk/briefing-notes-and-faqs/inheritance-tax-exemption-for-gifts-out-of-surplus-income/
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golfaddick said:
Nothing wrong with IHT imo. Lots of ways you can give or invest your wealth before you die. Ime people dont want to let go of it, even if it's in Trust to named beneficiaries.red10 said:Let's not forget that Starmer has a tax free pension arrangement and probably a considerable net worth while the rest of us are trying to look after our hard earned. IHT really boils my piss.
However, most wealth is tied up in property. (Old) people need to realise this & downsize before they die. Release equity & then give this away to their heirs.
What would be fair in the Budget would be an increasing level of tax based on property values. First £500k no tax. Next £500k 20%, anything over £1m then 40%.Sorry, I don't agree. Paid tax on income to buy a house and gain some assets. Concept of tax on capital gains is fair as the gain is free money, but to pay 40% in IHT so that your child for example can continue to live in their family home is wrong. It's 40% of the estate above and beyond what ever limits are in place at the time. It should be about gain and the only time that gain is realised is when you sell. You bought it, paid for it so why should the state get anything from it when you die? Daylight robbery imo.
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I worked for Lloyds Banking Group, a company which employees across the UK. Following the demise of the old “London Allowance” , employees across the country doing the same job at the same grade, can pretty much expect the same salary. I have no direct problem with that.However, my 4 bed Bexley Semi is £650,000. Whilst a similar property in Halifax is £325,000. So on a comparison my work colleague in Yorkshire has had less of his income spent on his house purchase, a therefore more disposable income for a good life. An his £325,000 home is under the IHT limit.
i have had to spend far more income on property purchase to live in a comparable home. Have had less disposable income for a good life. And then when I die my kids can currently have £500,000 tax free, and the state wants 40% of the other £150,000.I just don’t see this is fair…… I am penalised by my geographical location in the UK.7 -
Fully understand where you are coming from.RaplhMilne said:I worked for Lloyds Banking Group, a company which employees across the UK. Following the demise of the old “London Allowance” , employees across the country doing the same job at the same grade, can pretty much expect the same salary. I have no direct problem with that.However, my 4 bed Bexley Semi is £650,000. Whilst a similar property in Halifax is £325,000. So on a comparison my work colleague in Yorkshire has had less of his income spent on his house purchase, a therefore more disposable income for a good life. An his £325,000 home is under the IHT limit.
i have had to spend far more income on property purchase to live in a comparable home. Have had less disposable income for a good life. And then when I die my kids can currently have £500,000 tax free, and the state wants 40% of the other £150,000.I just don’t see this is fair…… I am penalised by my geographical location in the UK.
Wages in the Fire Brigade are exactly the same no matter what part of the country live and work in ( London waiting aside ).
House prices in the London area compared to somewhere like Middlesbrough meant that on a firefighter wage some could afford to buy a house easily while others could not.3 -
This would be great if we knew when we going to die and what care we would need later in life. My wife is 68 and therefore her life expectancy is still another 20 years but who knows! Also there are potential care costs to consider. A friend of mine who has suddenly developed dementia at something like 68 has moved into a very nice care home which is costing him something approaching £10k a month. Yes you can cheaper but this is top class. If he'd given his money away goodness where he would be.golfaddick said:
Nothing wrong with IHT imo. Lots of ways you can give or invest your wealth before you die. Ime people dont want to let go of it, even if it's in Trust to named beneficiaries.red10 said:Let's not forget that Starmer has a tax free pension arrangement and probably a considerable net worth while the rest of us are trying to look after our hard earned. IHT really boils my piss.
However, most wealth is tied up in property. (Old) people need to realise this & downsize before they die. Release equity & then give this away to their heirs.
What would be fair in the Budget would be an increasing level of tax based on property values. First £500k no tax. Next £500k 20%, anything over £1m then 40%.1 -
I worked for Lloyds too. Benefit is that house prices in the South East usually increase far more than Halifax. I also would not want to live in Halifax!!RaplhMilne said:I worked for Lloyds Banking Group, a company which employees across the UK. Following the demise of the old “London Allowance” , employees across the country doing the same job at the same grade, can pretty much expect the same salary. I have no direct problem with that.However, my 4 bed Bexley Semi is £650,000. Whilst a similar property in Halifax is £325,000. So on a comparison my work colleague in Yorkshire has had less of his income spent on his house purchase, a therefore more disposable income for a good life. An his £325,000 home is under the IHT limit.
i have had to spend far more income on property purchase to live in a comparable home. Have had less disposable income for a good life. And then when I die my kids can currently have £500,000 tax free, and the state wants 40% of the other £150,000.I just don’t see this is fair…… I am penalised by my geographical location in the UK.1 -
He could put money into either a Discounted Gift Trust or a Loan Trust. Both allow access to some of the money during his Lifetime.redman said:
This would be great if we knew when we going to die and what care we would need later in life. My wife is 68 and therefore her life expectancy is still another 20 years but who knows! Also there are potential care costs to consider. A friend of mine who has suddenly developed dementia at something like 68 has moved into a very nice care home which is costing him something approaching £10k a month. Yes you can cheaper but this is top class. If he'd given his money away goodness where he would be.golfaddick said:
Nothing wrong with IHT imo. Lots of ways you can give or invest your wealth before you die. Ime people dont want to let go of it, even if it's in Trust to named beneficiaries.red10 said:Let's not forget that Starmer has a tax free pension arrangement and probably a considerable net worth while the rest of us are trying to look after our hard earned. IHT really boils my piss.
However, most wealth is tied up in property. (Old) people need to realise this & downsize before they die. Release equity & then give this away to their heirs.
What would be fair in the Budget would be an increasing level of tax based on property values. First £500k no tax. Next £500k 20%, anything over £1m then 40%.
Or he could invest into an Investment Bond. Because these contain an element of life assurance they are not assessed as capital for care costs.
As usual.......speak to your friendly financial adviser for your investment needs 😉😄.1 - Sponsored links:
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In cases where a lot of the money subject to IHT is tied up in property - how do the inheriting children pay off that bill without selling the house immediately? Particularly in cases if they are inheriting a large property - what if they don't have hundreds of thousands of pounds sitting around to pay off 40% over the 500k limit? Is there some sort of time allowance to let them do it?2
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https://www.gov.uk/guidance/applying-for-a-grant-on-credit-for-inheritance-taxcafctom said:In cases where a lot of the money subject to IHT is tied up in property - how do the inheriting children pay off that bill without selling the house immediately? Particularly in cases if they are inheriting a large property - what if they don't have hundreds of thousands of pounds sitting around to pay off 40% over the 500k limit? Is there some sort of time allowance to let them do it?
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Yep, you struggle to get the grant of probate unless you settle the tax bill, chicken and egg when it's all tied up in assets to dispose of and you can't do a thing without it without going through hoops. Fantastic when you have just lost your nearest and dearest !! as I said, if any tax is to be levied it should be on the growth of the assets NOT the value of the estate. If you paid 2 mil for the assets and they end up being worth 3 mil then it's the 1 mil uplift that should be taxed as the 2 mil has already been income taxed.
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Be aware it really has to be true surplus income. If you give some of your income away but you are drawing on any other cash (i.e. savings) to buy a new car periodically, pay for a holiday each year etc then it's not surplus income. You pretty much have to be fully living just on your incomes. EDIT, don;t forget as well as the £3k you can gift £250 each to as many people as you like - bank details to follow ;-)robinofottershaw said:Just in case anyone is not aware and would benefit from this, there is currently an additional relief from inheritance tax if you are able to gift monies on a regular basis out of after tax surplus income, i.e. more than the £3,000 annual exemption.
I am currently putting money each year into Junior ISAs for three grandchildren and until I became aware of this a couple of years thought there was a potential IHT exposure on any excess over and above the £3k per annum I was contributing to these ISAs. However, if you can compile records for each tax year demonstrating you can afford to gift these monies out of surplus after tax income (including that from investment income), then those monies are not subject to IHT. The attached link outlines the record-keeping required. I just wait until I have submitted my tax return each year and then update a spreadsheet showing my income, expenditures (best estimate) and annual gifts for the tax year and keep this in a file along with my will in order my executors can use it when the time comes.
Obviously, I hope this relief isn't changed in the forthcoming budget!
https://www.gabyhardwicke.co.uk/briefing-notes-and-faqs/inheritance-tax-exemption-for-gifts-out-of-surplus-income/
cafctom said:
My mum and her siblings had to come to come up with over £300k back in 2001 to part settle my grandads estates IHT bill before they would release probate. Not sure if the grants are new, as don't recall it at the time although there wouldn't have been the cash to draw on anyway.In cases where a lot of the money subject to IHT is tied up in property - how do the inheriting children pay off that bill without selling the house immediately? Particularly in cases if they are inheriting a large property - what if they don't have hundreds of thousands of pounds sitting around to pay off 40% over the 500k limit? Is there some sort of time allowance to let them do it?0 -
I have invested a substantial part of my capital in loan trusts whereby any interest gained is not subjected to IHT and cannot Iñbe used to pay for care.1
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Do you take loan repayments out of interest? My understanding was that the OS loan still forms part of your estate for IHT but yes any gain is free of IHT.Solidgone said:I have invested a substantial part of my capital in loan trusts whereby any interest gained is not subjected to IHT and cannot Iñbe used to pay for care.
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Thanks Rob7Lee, that's a good reminder. I am including holidays in my annual expenditures out of surplus income. However, I am pondering whether or not to buy a new car sometime in the next year or so. I normally keep cars for several years but am not yet ready to move over to an electric vehicle. So I was thinking of potentially leasing an ICE car for say 3 years, instead of buying this time around. Given your reminder, an added incentive would be that I could cover the leasing cost out of income rather than funding a purchase out of savings and therefore could continue to evidence I can cover these gift monies out of surplus income.Rob7Lee said:
Be aware it really has to be true surplus income. If you give some of your income away but you are drawing on any other cash (i.e. savings) to buy a new car periodically, pay for a holiday each year etc then it's not surplus income. You pretty much have to be fully living just on your incomes. EDIT, don;t forget as well as the £3k you can gift £250 each to as many people as you like - bank details to follow ;-)robinofottershaw said:Just in case anyone is not aware and would benefit from this, there is currently an additional relief from inheritance tax if you are able to gift monies on a regular basis out of after tax surplus income, i.e. more than the £3,000 annual exemption.
I am currently putting money each year into Junior ISAs for three grandchildren and until I became aware of this a couple of years thought there was a potential IHT exposure on any excess over and above the £3k per annum I was contributing to these ISAs. However, if you can compile records for each tax year demonstrating you can afford to gift these monies out of surplus after tax income (including that from investment income), then those monies are not subject to IHT. The attached link outlines the record-keeping required. I just wait until I have submitted my tax return each year and then update a spreadsheet showing my income, expenditures (best estimate) and annual gifts for the tax year and keep this in a file along with my will in order my executors can use it when the time comes.
Obviously, I hope this relief isn't changed in the forthcoming budget!
https://www.gabyhardwicke.co.uk/briefing-notes-and-faqs/inheritance-tax-exemption-for-gifts-out-of-surplus-income/
cafctom said:
My mum and her siblings had to come to come up with over £300k back in 2001 to part settle my grandads estates IHT bill before they would release probate. Not sure if the grants are new, as don't recall it at the time although there wouldn't have been the cash to draw on anyway.In cases where a lot of the money subject to IHT is tied up in property - how do the inheriting children pay off that bill without selling the house immediately? Particularly in cases if they are inheriting a large property - what if they don't have hundreds of thousands of pounds sitting around to pay off 40% over the 500k limit? Is there some sort of time allowance to let them do it?1 -
I must admit I’ve only had the loan trust x 3 for one year and interest has returned for the first year of investments at 11%. I don’t plan on touching the money unless I absolutely need to. Yes the amounts invested in the loan trust is subject to IHT but the interest escapes the clutches of the Government’s IHT.Rob7Lee said:
Do you take loan repayments out of interest? My understanding was that the OS loan still forms part of your estate for IHT but yes any gain is free of IHT.Solidgone said:I have invested a substantial part of my capital in loan trusts whereby any interest gained is not subjected to IHT and cannot Iñbe used to pay for care.0 -
The whole point of a Loan Trust is that you try to use some or even all of the money in it. Be that the 5% withdrawal allowance (if in an Investment Bond) or as ad hoc lump sums.Solidgone said:
I must admit I’ve only had the loan trust x 3 for one year and interest has returned for the first year of investments at 11%. I don’t plan on touching the money unless I absolutely need to. Yes the amounts invested in the loan trust is subject to IHT but the interest escapes the clutches of the Government’s IHT.Rob7Lee said:
Do you take loan repayments out of interest? My understanding was that the OS loan still forms part of your estate for IHT but yes any gain is free of IHT.Solidgone said:I have invested a substantial part of my capital in loan trusts whereby any interest gained is not subjected to IHT and cannot Iñbe used to pay for care.
In your case you could have simply put the money in a non-interest bearing account if all you are doing is avoiding any growth being part of your Estate.2 -
Not really clear of what you are achieving by the trusts. The original amounts remain subject to IHT, the interest isn't, but then if you spend the income, or if not and it's surplus income you gave it away, it wouldn't attract IHT either?Solidgone said:
I must admit I’ve only had the loan trust x 3 for one year and interest has returned for the first year of investments at 11%. I don’t plan on touching the money unless I absolutely need to. Yes the amounts invested in the loan trust is subject to IHT but the interest escapes the clutches of the Government’s IHT.Rob7Lee said:
Do you take loan repayments out of interest? My understanding was that the OS loan still forms part of your estate for IHT but yes any gain is free of IHT.Solidgone said:I have invested a substantial part of my capital in loan trusts whereby any interest gained is not subjected to IHT and cannot Iñbe used to pay for care.
I'm never convinced these trusts will work to avoid the care home fee's in most instances as can easily be challenged.
Also are they not akin to offshore trusts we bemoan the rich having to avoid tax?0 - Sponsored links:
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https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/24/tesla-shares-elon-muskFurther to discussion further up the thread. Best day in a decade for Tesla share price. Adds close to 150 bn dollars to value. Musk cult ?0
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Good for anyone riding that wave, but I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole (other than as part of some wider funds I hold). And they're only up 1.4% over the last month, though I appreciate you can pick a time frame to support whatever point you might want to make.
What would happen to the price if anything happened to Elon?5 -
Got a mate who thinks the sun shines out of Musk’s arse! He has basically lumped all his savings into Tesla shares and is banking on them to see him through as a pension substitute. As you suggest without Musk what would be left.IdleHans said:Good for anyone riding that wave, but I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole (other than as part of some wider funds I hold). And they're only up 1.4% over the last month, though I appreciate you can pick a time frame to support whatever point you might want to make.
What would happen to the price if anything happened to Elon?
https://www.ft.com/content/b49d53e4-631a-402f-9dc1-d22f708f97fe
Good background in this FT piece.2 -
Depending on where you get your data from, 40-47% of Tesla shares are owned by retail investors, compared with 13.9% of the S&P 500 as an average....
Calling it a meme stock would be unfair but there is definitely a cult of personality surrounding Musk that has put Tesla where it is in terms of share value. I suppose the key question is if that translates into sales.
Personally, I feel like the Chinese will eventually conquer the EV market and we are pissing into the wind trying to stop them.3 -
i see little Tommy Sandgaard's Zynex results for Q3 are just out and the price has risen 8% on the back of them. I'm still a small holder, but well under water on those.
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anybody use the trading212 app and can recommend or advise against?
not looking to invest, just put a bit of money form an expired savings account somewhere earning a bit of interest.
The headline rate is 5.1% and wondered if this is accurate0 -
I considered this last week and looked at their reviews, some of which were dreadful, so decided against.Phantom_User said:anybody use the trading212 app and can recommend or advise against?
not looking to invest, just put a bit of money form an expired savings account somewhere earning a bit of interest.
The headline rate is 5.1% and wondered if this is accurate1 -
Thank you. May I ask if you decided on an alternative place for your investment?Covered End said:
I considered this last week and looked at their reviews which were dreadful, so decided against.Phantom_User said:anybody use the trading212 app and can recommend or advise against?
not looking to invest, just put a bit of money form an expired savings account somewhere earning a bit of interest.
The headline rate is 5.1% and wondered if this is accurate0 -
Not used the trading part but have a cash ISA with them. Current rate is 5.1% with interest paid daily.Phantom_User said:anybody use the trading212 app and can recommend or advise against?
not looking to invest, just put a bit of money form an expired savings account somewhere earning a bit of interest.
The headline rate is 5.1% and wondered if this is accurate
So far so good and have found the App works fine although not tried to transfer or draw any money out so can't comment on that aspect.1 -
Use it for trading shares and such as there's 0 fees and only doing it with pocket money, quite like the app though not used it for the same purposes as you are intending to.fat man on a moped said:
Not used the trading part but have a cash ISA with them. Current rate is 5.1% with interest paid daily.Phantom_User said:anybody use the trading212 app and can recommend or advise against?
not looking to invest, just put a bit of money form an expired savings account somewhere earning a bit of interest.
The headline rate is 5.1% and wondered if this is accurate
So far so good and have found the App works fine although not tried to transfer or draw any money out so can't comment on that aspect.0
