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Another academy prospect poached
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I’ve banged on about this loads of times before but a simple rule of restricting the number of players any one club can send out on loan to 5 or 7 would make a difference.
I haven’t checked this season but the big clubs like Chelsea and Arsenal often have 20-30 players out on loan and as far as I’m aware, they still fulfil all their academy fixtures.
Even if putting a restriction in place made a quarter of those ‘poached on promises of loaning out’ think twice, then that would filter down the pyramid and benefit smaller clubs*
*that is why it isn’t going to happen.2 -
Beadle, a Charlton fan, signed a contract to ensure we got a fee - about £500k which for an untested kid seemed decent value at the time. I just hope we have a sell on fee too because he's going to be worth a shit ton more than thatfenaddick said:
Gomez did I think but Beadle was just poached. The Bellingham scenario worked because not only is he a great player he is a Birmingham fan. Our academy players are more likely to be Chelsea fans than Charlton ones so we’ve got little chance of keeping them around if Chelsea/Arsenal come sniffingAddick Addict said:
Not sure that us sticking a £25m release clause for all our youngsters would work or, for that matter, any would be silly enough to sign such a contract. Didn't Joe Gomez sign a new contract to help us and James Beadle do likewise?killerandflash said:
Down to Bellingham though, as he signed a contract to make sure Birmingham got a big fee. Hence why he is so worshipped thereAddick Addict said:
But then he went for £25m as a 17 year old to a German club and with probable add ons it is difficult to argue that Birmingham didn't get some valueChunes said:Quite ironic that Bellingham came out of a Category 2 academy.8 -
As I've said, the irony is that he is in goal for one of our rivals but wouldn't be in our first team had he stayed. The likes of Pope, Elliott and Randolph didn't become regulars 'til they were 22 and we would have had two senior keepers in front of him. The difference is that when a PL club loans out an 18/19 year old they play in the Championship/League 1. When we do that it is non league.Swisdom said:
Beadle, a Charlton fan, signed a contract to ensure we got a fee - about £500k which for an untested kid seemed decent value at the time. I just hope we have a sell on fee too because he's going to be worth a shit ton more than thatfenaddick said:
Gomez did I think but Beadle was just poached. The Bellingham scenario worked because not only is he a great player he is a Birmingham fan. Our academy players are more likely to be Chelsea fans than Charlton ones so we’ve got little chance of keeping them around if Chelsea/Arsenal come sniffingAddick Addict said:
Not sure that us sticking a £25m release clause for all our youngsters would work or, for that matter, any would be silly enough to sign such a contract. Didn't Joe Gomez sign a new contract to help us and James Beadle do likewise?killerandflash said:
Down to Bellingham though, as he signed a contract to make sure Birmingham got a big fee. Hence why he is so worshipped thereAddick Addict said:
But then he went for £25m as a 17 year old to a German club and with probable add ons it is difficult to argue that Birmingham didn't get some valueChunes said:Quite ironic that Bellingham came out of a Category 2 academy.1 -
Should be in place now... Unfortunately the rules only apply to players over 21paulbaconsarnie said:I’ve banged on about this loads of times before but a simple rule of restricting the number of players any one club can send out on loan to 5 or 7 would make a difference.
I haven’t checked this season but the big clubs like Chelsea and Arsenal often have 20-30 players out on loan and as far as I’m aware, they still fulfil all their academy fixtures.
Even if putting a restriction in place made a quarter of those ‘poached on promises of loaning out’ think twice, then that would filter down the pyramid and benefit smaller clubs*
*that is why it isn’t going to happen.
Transfer news: FIFA announces radical new loan plans that will limit clubs to six loan exits per season | Transfer Centre News | Sky Sports
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I don’t quite get that mention of the trial at Cobham. Did he score his 6 goals against first team players or other 15 year old kids ?1
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Players should be made to pay for their football education. Not at the time when they are potless of course but through their career IF they make it as a pro. Would be easy for the FA to implement wouldn't it and on a sliding scale. So if you play L1/L2 it is minimal but if you are earning £200K a week in the PL it would be meaningful to the club that produced you.
Clubs would then be rewarded for bringing players through, meaning Cat 2 academies could become closer to self funding. Players shouldn't begrudge it as it is how they got on the gravy train.
Sell on clauses through EPPP should also have been a thing.
The idiot that created it didn't even make it inflation proof however.
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The whole process is called "Defoeism"2
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Pfffft no ambition, Andy Scott said he's changing the way this club operates but clearly this is his fault, he's all talk no action.
I bet Bremer came over this week just to see what assets in the youth he could sell for a quick buck and Chizzy was the first one off the production line.
Heart's being ripped out of the academy, if we're not going to be Cat 1 we may as well close the whole thing down.
A must win game.
The next 2 weeks are crucial.
Think I covered all the bases there?11 -
What are u going on about?sam3110 said:Pfffft no ambition, Andy Scott said he's changing the way this club operates but clearly this is his fault, he's all talk no action.
I bet Bremer came over this week just to see what assets in the youth he could sell for a quick buck and Chizzy was the first one off the production line.
Heart's being ripped out of the academy, if we're not going to be Cat 1 we may as well close the whole thing down.
A must win game.
The next 2 weeks are crucial.
Think I covered all the bases there?2 - Sponsored links:
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How long was this kid at our academy for ?
I remember finding out Defoe wasn’t here long. so there are others who may have contributed more to his development0 -
That’s because those that are good enough are in and around the first team at that age. Mitchell at Colchester is a rare exception, and that was helped by Garner managing them.Addick Addict said:
As I've said, the irony is that he is in goal for one of our rivals but wouldn't be in our first team had he stayed. The likes of Pope, Elliott and Randolph didn't become regulars 'til they were 22 and we would have had two senior keepers in front of him. The difference is that when a PL club loans out an 18/19 year old they play in the Championship/League 1. When we do that it is non league.Swisdom said:
Beadle, a Charlton fan, signed a contract to ensure we got a fee - about £500k which for an untested kid seemed decent value at the time. I just hope we have a sell on fee too because he's going to be worth a shit ton more than thatfenaddick said:
Gomez did I think but Beadle was just poached. The Bellingham scenario worked because not only is he a great player he is a Birmingham fan. Our academy players are more likely to be Chelsea fans than Charlton ones so we’ve got little chance of keeping them around if Chelsea/Arsenal come sniffingAddick Addict said:
Not sure that us sticking a £25m release clause for all our youngsters would work or, for that matter, any would be silly enough to sign such a contract. Didn't Joe Gomez sign a new contract to help us and James Beadle do likewise?killerandflash said:
Down to Bellingham though, as he signed a contract to make sure Birmingham got a big fee. Hence why he is so worshipped thereAddick Addict said:
But then he went for £25m as a 17 year old to a German club and with probable add ons it is difficult to argue that Birmingham didn't get some valueChunes said:Quite ironic that Bellingham came out of a Category 2 academy.0 -
Nothing to do with the current SMT seeing it as a priority or notHenry Irving said:As a Cat 2 academy we're powerless to stop Cat 1 academies signing our kids when they choose.
We get a few hundred thousand. The maximum at 17 is £400k IIRC but we'll probably get less as he is younger.
The system is deliberately loaded to favour the bigger, richer Cat 1 clubs and there is nothing we can do about it other than becoming one ourselves which the current SMT don't see as a priority as it costs too much and we have a productive academy anyway.
And he, or his parents, may have been offered some "inducements" but look at Mason Burstow. On more money, better facilities and played in the Chelsea first time this season even if he's been loaned out now.
It was said at a Bromley Addicks meeting not long ago, that we were extremely unlikely to get CAT 1, the football league don't like giving CAT 1 status to a league 1 football club, so even if we paid for the extra staff and work to be done to meet CAT 1 standards chances are we still wouldn't get it due to being in League 1, so there was no point even considering it until we got out of this league.
That was obviously under the previous owner and I have no idea how the new owners feel about CAT 1, but if they have been told, its extremely unlikely to get it whilst in League 1 then you can understand why their priority would be on other things first.
Almost like saying if you owned a home would you spend money on a nursery in your spare room, because you might have a baby in 2/3 years, or would you spend that money on the urgent repairs that need doing right now (not the best example i know, but easiest i could think)4 -
I struggle to get angry about this anymore. It's the nature of the footballing beast. We're now an established league 1 club who happen to have a very successful cat 2 academy. I imagine the likes of Chelsea are very aware of our better prospects and know a toss up between us and them for a 15 year old is more than likely to go in their favour.2
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From the EFL clubs' point of view, the answer is simple. Just stop borrowing players from the EPL. As soon as Chelsea's player farm stopped being viable, they'd stop nicking other club's players.1
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That is something the EFL could do as a group. It would probably be very hard to get 100% agreement on such a policy though. And maybe, foreign leagues would replace the EFL as customers.cafcfan said:From the EFL clubs' point of view, the answer is simple. Just stop borrowing players from the EPL. As soon as Chelsea's player farm stopped being viable, they'd stop nicking other club's players.1 -
Firstly, that was under the old owner and we were never given the full reasons for the club not getting it. Easy for TS to say that it was because we were league 1 as that excuses his failure but even Anthony Hayes said at the Bromley Addicks meeting you mention that there were other factors.paulie8290 said:
Nothing to do with the current SMT seeing it as a priority or notHenry Irving said:As a Cat 2 academy we're powerless to stop Cat 1 academies signing our kids when they choose.
We get a few hundred thousand. The maximum at 17 is £400k IIRC but we'll probably get less as he is younger.
The system is deliberately loaded to favour the bigger, richer Cat 1 clubs and there is nothing we can do about it other than becoming one ourselves which the current SMT don't see as a priority as it costs too much and we have a productive academy anyway.
And he, or his parents, may have been offered some "inducements" but look at Mason Burstow. On more money, better facilities and played in the Chelsea first time this season even if he's been loaned out now.
It was said at a Bromley Addicks meeting not long ago, that we were extremely unlikely to get CAT 1, the football league don't like giving CAT 1 status to a league 1 football club, so even if we paid for the extra staff and work to be done to meet CAT 1 standards chances are we still wouldn't get it due to being in League 1, so there was no point even considering it until we got out of this league.
That was obviously under the previous owner and I have no idea how the new owners feel about CAT 1, but if they have been told, its extremely unlikely to get it whilst in League 1 then you can understand why their priority would be on other things first.
Almost like saying if you owned a home would you spend money on a nursery in your spare room, because you might have a baby in 2/3 years, or would you spend that money on the urgent repairs that need doing right now (not the best example i know, but easiest i could think)
Secondly, only last week Bromley Addicks had another meeting and this is what Paul Elliott said:
Q: Academy achieving Cat 1
There are costs. it's remarkable to have had the success we have without Cat 1
Our academy is very attractive because there is a pathway to the first team.
There are priorities, somewhere in that is Cat 1 but we're not a EPL club
So it's not a top priority for the SMT.0 -
There is a solidarity mechanism as well as training compensation that filters down to all a player's previous clubs that held his registration since they turned 12 years old. So effectively any club that plays a part in the training of a player that goes on to "make it" will ensure money goes back to the previous clubs. If there are sell ons they are separate.Athletico Charlton said:Players should be made to pay for their football education. Not at the time when they are potless of course but through their career IF they make it as a pro. Would be easy for the FA to implement wouldn't it and on a sliding scale. So if you play L1/L2 it is minimal but if you are earning £200K a week in the PL it would be meaningful to the club that produced you.
Clubs would then be rewarded for bringing players through, meaning Cat 2 academies could become closer to self funding. Players shouldn't begrudge it as it is how they got on the gravy train.
Sell on clauses through EPPP should also have been a thing.
The idiot that created it didn't even make it inflation proof however.0 -
perhaps Chelsea will be a bit more positive in giving us loans0
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We have had loads of 18/19 year olds that have been regulars over the years but I was talking specifically about goalkeepers. I cannot recall the last time we had a home grown keeper of that age that was a fixture in the first team as Beadle is. Graham Tutt? But that was almost 50 years ago. The modern day keeper has to be able to do so much more in terms of being a footballer and being able to play the ball out. Some of the ones from a former era literally had the first touch of an elephant!!!Scoham said:
That’s because those that are good enough are in and around the first team at that age. Mitchell at Colchester is a rare exception, and that was helped by Garner managing them.Addick Addict said:
As I've said, the irony is that he is in goal for one of our rivals but wouldn't be in our first team had he stayed. The likes of Pope, Elliott and Randolph didn't become regulars 'til they were 22 and we would have had two senior keepers in front of him. The difference is that when a PL club loans out an 18/19 year old they play in the Championship/League 1. When we do that it is non league.Swisdom said:
Beadle, a Charlton fan, signed a contract to ensure we got a fee - about £500k which for an untested kid seemed decent value at the time. I just hope we have a sell on fee too because he's going to be worth a shit ton more than thatfenaddick said:
Gomez did I think but Beadle was just poached. The Bellingham scenario worked because not only is he a great player he is a Birmingham fan. Our academy players are more likely to be Chelsea fans than Charlton ones so we’ve got little chance of keeping them around if Chelsea/Arsenal come sniffingAddick Addict said:
Not sure that us sticking a £25m release clause for all our youngsters would work or, for that matter, any would be silly enough to sign such a contract. Didn't Joe Gomez sign a new contract to help us and James Beadle do likewise?killerandflash said:
Down to Bellingham though, as he signed a contract to make sure Birmingham got a big fee. Hence why he is so worshipped thereAddick Addict said:
But then he went for £25m as a 17 year old to a German club and with probable add ons it is difficult to argue that Birmingham didn't get some valueChunes said:Quite ironic that Bellingham came out of a Category 2 academy.
It's a gamble because it is the one position that a player will make mistakes and will, as a result, get the most abuse for doing so. Look at the amount that Pope received when he first came into the team. Pope, Elliott and Randolph all became internationals but we weren't prepared to allow them to make those mistakes with us. I very much doubt that Beadle would have been our number one this season but if we really believed in him then why did we not try to get him back on loan? He loves the club, he used to follow us all round the country with his dad and brother and would probably have jumped at the chance but that would mean placing him in front of AMB who has had to serve his apprenticeship on loan in the same way as Pope, Elliott and Randolph had to. Beadle would have at best been number two but more likely on loan elsewhere. Whereas Brighton have probably insisted he is first team keeper at Oxford albeit not permanently if his form was poor (which it hasn't been - he's let in two goals in his last five matches). And that's without the other perks of being at a PL club.0 - Sponsored links:
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Does this mean the 8 million pound losses are wiped out for the next year?0
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U16 Nduka to Arsenal?
https://x.com/scoutingindoors/status/1948319787739763114?s=46&t=ynww82GMl7VKBjthBflU0g
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It’s a shame, but it is what it is now. Must be getting a good compensation for him..0
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So maybe £100k. Honestly, the short-sightedness by EFL clubs in agreeing to this is mind-boggling.msomerton said:
It looks like £25,000 per year registered with category 2 academy for U12 to U16 players.cazo said:It’s a shame, but it is what it is now. Must be getting a good compensation for him..11 -
Because the Premier League threatened to shaft them with how the money drip fed down into the EFL if they didn't agree to the way compensation works.MrLargo said:
So maybe £100k. Honestly, the short-sightedness by EFL clubs in agreeing to this is mind-boggling.msomerton said:
It looks like £25,000 per year registered with category 2 academy for U12 to U16 players.cazo said:It’s a shame, but it is what it is now. Must be getting a good compensation for him..
Pretty much held the EFL to ransom.7 -
Has he been getting lessons for Scott Parker?Chizz said:
I wanted to stay. But Chelsea's offer was too good to turn down.lawhite said:In 2/3 years he could of been playing men’s football, but instead he will be stuck in the reserve and sent out on loan until he’s 26 and probably wasted his best years. 🤷🏻♂️
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Football is broken. One for the regulator to consider.Henry Irving said:As a Cat 2 academy we're powerless to stop Cat 1 academies signing our kids when they choose.
We get a few hundred thousand. The maximum at 17 is £400k IIRC but we'll probably get less as he is younger.
The system is deliberately loaded to favour the bigger, richer Cat 1 clubs and there is nothing we can do about it other than becoming one ourselves which the current SMT don't see as a priority as it costs too much and we have a productive academy anyway.
And he, or his parents, may have been offered some "inducements" but look at Mason Burstow. On more money, better facilities and played in the Chelsea first time this season even if he's been loaned out now.4 -
When the position is filled ... David Kogan is favourite, but there doesn't seem to be a rush.The Red Robin said:
Football is broken. One for the regulator to consider.Henry Irving said:As a Cat 2 academy we're powerless to stop Cat 1 academies signing our kids when they choose.
We get a few hundred thousand. The maximum at 17 is £400k IIRC but we'll probably get less as he is younger.
The system is deliberately loaded to favour the bigger, richer Cat 1 clubs and there is nothing we can do about it other than becoming one ourselves which the current SMT don't see as a priority as it costs too much and we have a productive academy anyway.
And he, or his parents, may have been offered some "inducements" but look at Mason Burstow. On more money, better facilities and played in the Chelsea first time this season even if he's been loaned out now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOh125Hpn3M 0
