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England Cricket 2023
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he's muttering 'fucking Rehan Ahmed' to himself before each delivery1
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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/jun/27/english-cricket-is-racist-sexist-and-elitist-says-landmark-reportEnglish Cricket found to be institutionally racist, sexist and classist. Rafiq was right.0
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Shocking and not surprising that black participation in cricket is so low it’s statistically irrelevant. Playing colts cricket in the 00’s in Kent I can count on one hand the amount of black players I played with or against. It felt like in the 90’s we were really making progress - mark alleyne springs to mind as one of the best one day captains this country’s produced, defreitas, headley, Tudor, Malcolm etc. although there’s lots of south Asian participation at amateur level I can’t help but notice they they're forced to be relatively insular.0
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The report suggests the men and women should receive equal pay at international level 🤷♂️ I don’t agree with that while there is a huge difference in the interest of the sport between men and women on a spectator and commercial level .
cricket is an expensive sport , all the gear is very expensive .
it’s a time consuming game .
One of our kids coaches had a guy who was looking to get his coaching badges came to the local junior school where his daughter is and they offered free cricket coaching after school to 450 kids , two kids turned up and one of them was our coaches daughter , there just isn’t the interest .
kids are more interested in basketball , football etc than cricket
Racism still exists and there are plenty of complete dicks playing cricket , that’s unfortunately still the society we live in .
My club are a multi racial team and we have guys who can speak plenty of dialects and have caught the oppo out a few times when they’ve made untoward comments, it is not just a one way street .
One of the reasons our club changed league was there was a feeling of these quaint little village 90% white playing clubs not wanting to play against our 60% Asian playing squad in our shitty local park . We were looked down upon , apparently
society as well as cricket has a big part to play .
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Here's the report if anyone is interested: HOLDING-UP-A-MIRROR-TO-CRICKET-REPORT-ICEC.pdf (theicec.com)
BTW, agree with what a lot of @oohaahmortimer has to say. You'd think living in Chelmsford the club would go to every school in town, but nope, never. Allied to the fact that cricket is rarely on free TV, I wonder how anyone is going to get interested in it.0 -
No surprise really, cricket has completely ignored state schools for years, and then shock horror, kids from state schools aren't interested when cricket comes to the school.
Counties and clubs have been quite happy milking the line of nice mainly white kids from public/grammar schools to produce mediocre players in the main, and not take the risk elsewhere.7 -
The racism and sexism within the sport is clearly very wrong and a stain on the sport.
The pay disparity between men and women though simply reflects the gap in spectator and commercial interest that currently exists between men's and women's cricket.5 -
On the equal pay point, for those that haven't seen it, here's a clip from a few years ago when a UFC fighter got asked about pay disparity in other sports.killerandflash said:The racism and sexism within the sport is clearly very wrong and a stain on the sport.
The pay disparity between men and women though simply reflects the gap in spectator and commercial interest that currently exists between men's and women's cricket.
(11) Ronda Rousey Shuts Down Women's Soccer Equal Pay Question With Logic - YouTube
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I'm sure it's a question of chicken and egg... If there was more incentive and investment in women's sport, then it's going to attract more and better competitors and spectators. Similarly, I can see how women's football broke through with the Euro win and put more bums on seats.
Having institutional misogyny, classism and racism rife in the system ain't gonna help.
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There's been massive promotion of the women's Ashes this summer, and as much coverage on TV as the men's series.McBobbin said:I'm sure it's a question of chicken and egg... If there was more incentive and investment in women's sport, then it's going to attract more and better competitors and spectators. Similarly, I can see how women's football broke through with the Euro win and put more bums on seats.
Having institutional misogyny, classism and racism rife in the system ain't gonna help.4 - Sponsored links:
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josh tongue in for moeen ali.0
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Without getting into the rights & wrongs of this report, England could've done without this report coming out the day before an Ashes test match.0
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Reports Wood has an elbow injury otherwise you'd presume he'd play - maybe he'll be fit for Headingley?
Big call to go into a Test with Root as your only spinner.0 -
England have included Josh Tongue in an all-pace attack for the second Ashes Test against Australia.
Tongue, 25, comes in as the only change from the team that lost the first Test at Edgbaston to replace off-spinner Moeen Ali.
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Surprised not to see Woakes at Lords if the surface is going to be a bit spicy2
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In non-Ashes related news, the schedule for the 2023 World Cup was released earlier today. A group stage of 10 teams playing every other team once, with top four advancing to the semi final stage.
Full fixture list can be found here: https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/3558110/amp
England fixtures:
New Zealand @ Ahmedabad, 5/10
Bangladesh @ Dharamshala, 10/10
Afghanistan @ Delhi, 14/10
South Africa @ Mumbai, 21/10
Qualifier 2 @ Bengaluru, 26/10
India @ Lucknow, 29/10
Australia @ Ahmedabad, 4/11
Qualifier 1 @ Pune, 8/11
Pakistan @ Kolkata, 12/11Semi Final 1 (1st v 4th) @ Mumbai, 15/11
Semi Final 2 (2nd v 3rd) @ Kolkata, 16/11
Final @ Ahmedabad, 19/111 -
Rothko said:No surprise really, cricket has completely ignored state schools for years, and then shock horror, kids from state schools aren't interested when cricket comes to the school.
Counties and clubs have been quite happy milking the line of nice mainly white kids from public/grammar schools to produce mediocre players in the main, and not take the risk elsewhere.
I've been saying this for a decade on here. There are more kids now coming from the ethnic minorities now but they still do tend to be the ones that attend those private schools. When I've pointed out how many of our England squad have come from those schools, the argument has been that a lot of them didn't start there and received scholarships - but that is rather missing the point. That is the pathway whether the parents have money or not because the coaches at those school have a direct in to the county pathway and they have the best coaches and facilities too. How many have been missed that weren't offered a scholarship? In Seb's first four years at Kent he was one of only four non privately educated boys (albeit went to a grammar school that played cricket) in the 15 man county age group squad and they did not have a single lad of asian or black heritage.
@oohaahmortimer is so right about the cost too. In addition to the cost of kit, parents of kids at Kent actually have to pay for the privilege of trialling. If they make the squad then parents have to pay for the coaching that they get during the course of winter/summer at the County and they have to pay for their playing gear too. Imagine having to do that at a pro football club! So, the question is this - does the ECB actually earmark money that goes to the counties specifically for this and if so what happens to it? If it does I'm not sure that it has ever been passed on in its totality to the parents. If at all. This has been picked up in the report with the appropriate recommendations:
1.5.24 We strongly believe that participation in the talent pathway should be made entirely free of direct costs, so that as of the 2024-25 pathway no player trialling for or participating in the talent pathway needs to pay to participate.
This will also serve to level the playing field:
1.5.25 We believe that selection for representative, inter-County cricket should begin at the Under 14 level and not before. This recommendation will mean that the widely documented challenges associated with talent ID in younger children are removed for the first three years of a typical pathway programme. Placing less emphasis on selection and deselection from Under 10 age groups onwards mitigates the very significant structural advantages that private school children have over their state school counterparts. Coaches, children and parents will be relieved of the pressures and liabilities associated with the current system. Importantly, indirect costs such as travel and parental time will be further reduced, enabling more children to play a high standard of cricket locally, lowering the barriers to participation.
It's not just a question of opportunity. It's about affordability too and the ability to make those that don't come from a privileged background part of the group and for them to feel accepted in that environment.3 -
And so it proved to be the case. Wood needs an extra week and will be in for the third Test all things being equal.Addick Addict said:Who knows with the current set up? If Stokes can't bowl meaningful overs (7 in each of the innings in this Test and looked in agony in the second innings) then we might we have to go in for at least one of the Tests with Root as the sole spinner. Wood is a short, sharp, impact bowler these days so won't bowl meaningful long spells either I wouldn't have thought. That would leave the other two seamers to do the donkey work and that would mean a lot of overs for them if Rehan Ahmed, for example, was regulalrly hit out of the attack.0 -
I will have too bite mnekentaddick said:josh tongue in for moeen ali.0 -
Didnt think much of Tongue in the Ireland game. Have we no decent fast bowlers around anymore.0
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A lot of them are injured or not match fit currentlygolfaddick said:Didnt think much of Tongue in the Ireland game. Have we no decent fast bowlers around anymore.0 -
Archer, Wood, Overton, Stone and Carse injured or not match fit. Mahmood doesn't seem to be the player he was before his injury. Not sure on the status of George Garton or whether he is just not fancied...Addick Addict said:
A lot of them are injured or not match fit currentlygolfaddick said:Didnt think much of Tongue in the Ireland game. Have we no decent fast bowlers around anymore.0 -
Dont understand how despite central contracts and fast bowling programmes and the rest we are so much worse than other countries at protecting out quicks.0
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Garton is a complete shadow of the player he was. Apparently still dealing with the affects of Long Covid.cantersaddick said:
Archer, Wood, Overton, Stone and Carse injured or not match fit. Mahmood doesn't seem to be the player he was before his injury. Not sure on the status of George Garton or whether he is just not fancied...Addick Addict said:
A lot of them are injured or not match fit currentlygolfaddick said:Didnt think much of Tongue in the Ireland game. Have we no decent fast bowlers around anymore.0 -
I can't remember a time when we have had a greater number of fast bowlers, if you include those unfit and those who play all, or most of their games in white-ball cricket.cantersaddick said:
Archer, Wood, Overton, Stone and Carse injured or not match fit. Mahmood doesn't seem to be the player he was before his injury. Not sure on the status of George Garton or whether he is just not fancied...Addick Addict said:
A lot of them are injured or not match fit currentlygolfaddick said:Didnt think much of Tongue in the Ireland game. Have we no decent fast bowlers around anymore.
Anderson
Broad
Robinson
Stokes
Woakes
Potts
Mark Wood
Luke Wood
Archer
Overton
Stone
Tongue
Topley
Curran
Willey
Jordan
Gleeson
Carse
Mahmood
Mills
Garton
All of these have played for England since the start of last year. I think it's rare to have such a large selection.0 -
iirc there's a commission working on why we're terrible at looking after our quicker bowlers compared to other countries.cantersaddick said:Dont understand how despite central contracts and fast bowling programmes and the rest we are so much worse than other countries at protecting out quicks.0 -
I don't expect Ronda Rousey to be aware of the nuance of the debate here given the appalling phrasing of the question, but if I recall correctly, this was about being afforded things like the same proportional split of prize money and TV revenue, not the same AUD figure. Also, business class travel, and such.SidewaysInOz said:
On the equal pay point, for those that haven't seen it, here's a clip from a few years ago when a UFC fighter got asked about pay disparity in other sports.killerandflash said:The racism and sexism within the sport is clearly very wrong and a stain on the sport.
The pay disparity between men and women though simply reflects the gap in spectator and commercial interest that currently exists between men's and women's cricket.
(11) Ronda Rousey Shuts Down Women's Soccer Equal Pay Question With Logic - YouTube
With women's sport - football in particular - match fees are income. Where England's men's footballers can afford to donate their £2,000 appearance fee to charity, the women generally cannot.
Anyway that is very tangential to the whole thing. I think the way the report highlights salary banding of men vs women is actually unfair, too - it is representative of the gap in commercial and spectator interest - but it's a fairly nuanced issue so I wanted to address some more context1 -
big mistake to omit Wood for the first test, he will surely play at :Lords instead of Ali .. Duckett will hopefully make a few runs .. I don't really think he is a 'proper' opener for English conditions .. abroad, like Hick (going back a long time), a bit of a flat track bully .. good luck to him especially as there is no obvious replacement to open ..
just one change then, Wood for Ali, though it would be my choice to have Bairstow opening (not absolutely ideal I know) with Foakes keeping0 -
Pelling1993 said:
Garton is a complete shadow of the player he was. Apparently still dealing with the affects of Long Covid.cantersaddick said:
Archer, Wood, Overton, Stone and Carse injured or not match fit. Mahmood doesn't seem to be the player he was before his injury. Not sure on the status of George Garton or whether he is just not fancied...Addick Addict said:
A lot of them are injured or not match fit currentlygolfaddick said:Didnt think much of Tongue in the Ireland game. Have we no decent fast bowlers around anymore.
Looks nowhere near the player he was 18 months ago. Read an article with him over the winter and it sounds like he's very lucky to be even able to play as much he is.0 -
I think we have to go back to how bowlers build up their ability to bowl long spells. In club cricket in Australia they play all day matches of up to 96 overs duration over consecutive Saturdays. Many fast bowlers will bowl 25 overs plus in a day. Here, most club competitions limit their bowlers to 10 overs so an 18 or 19 year will only build a body capable of bowling long spells at county 2s level. And there aren't enough of those games for them to do so given that white ball plays such a massive part in the programme.cantersaddick said:Dont understand how despite central contracts and fast bowling programmes and the rest we are so much worse than other countries at protecting out quicks.
In the old days we didn't have anywhere near the number of injuries to fast bowlers we have now and I am convinced that's because their bodies weren't constantly being let down, so far as overs are concerned and then having to bowl long spells when the body wasn't ready for it. Anderson and Broad are the exceptions but then they come from a different era too compared to those currently coming through the system and have probably learnt over time what they need to do to allow their bodies to perform at their best.1
