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Les Ferdinand- Hypocrite
WayneK
Posts: 639
Been on SSN moaning about the lack of black managers and , in the next breath, says QPR cannot guarantee Chris Ramsey will be manager next season.
That's the point Les, managers should be picked on ability rather than the colour of their skin whether it's white, black or lilac.
That's the point Les, managers should be picked on ability rather than the colour of their skin whether it's white, black or lilac.
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Exactly right.WayneK said:Been on SSN moaning about the lack of black managers and , in the next breath, says QPR cannot guarantee Chris Ramsey will be manager next season.
That's the point Les, managers should be picked on ability rather than the colour of their skin whether it's white, black or lilac.
People like Les Ferdinand, Sol Campbell think they should be able just to walk into top jobs, not the way to do it!!!! Lets look at our old favourite Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, he went abroad to manage and then wanted a job in England and has had to go to Burton Albion to cut his teeth. I can't imagine Sol or Les doing that.3 -
people desperately looking for an opportunity to be "offended" on other people's behalf again.6
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Campbell would go to Notts County, club legend there...I-SAW-POUSO-PLAY said:
Exactly right.WayneK said:Been on SSN moaning about the lack of black managers and , in the next breath, says QPR cannot guarantee Chris Ramsey will be manager next season.
That's the point Les, managers should be picked on ability rather than the colour of their skin whether it's white, black or lilac.
People like Les Ferdinand, Sol Campbell think they should be able just to walk into top jobs, not the way to do it!!!! Lets look at our old favourite Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, he went abroad to manage and then wanted a job in England and has had to go to Burton Albion to cut his teeth. I can't imagine Sol or Les doing that.2 -
When Sol becomes Mayor of London he will take over every club in the capital. It's happening.1
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The irony is that Ferdinand is 'black' .. BUT .. he is the 'Director of Football' for a premier league club .. soooo, he aint done so bad, yet he bemoans the plight of the black man in football management/professional coaching ? .. as to the job that he's doing ? .. QPR are in dire straits .. get on with your day job Les and perhaps your club will be more successful0
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Like he is at all his former clubs...Talal said:
Campbell would go to Notts County, club legend there...I-SAW-POUSO-PLAY said:
Exactly right.WayneK said:Been on SSN moaning about the lack of black managers and , in the next breath, says QPR cannot guarantee Chris Ramsey will be manager next season.
That's the point Les, managers should be picked on ability rather than the colour of their skin whether it's white, black or lilac.
People like Les Ferdinand, Sol Campbell think they should be able just to walk into top jobs, not the way to do it!!!! Lets look at our old favourite Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, he went abroad to manage and then wanted a job in England and has had to go to Burton Albion to cut his teeth. I can't imagine Sol or Les doing that.
Considering he is doing just as good a job as the favourite for the formerly vacant England job, I would've thought they'd have kept him on in a heartbeat. There's a severe lack of British managers in the premier league, let alone britsh black managers.WayneK said:Been on SSN moaning about the lack of black managers and , in the next breath, says QPR cannot guarantee Chris Ramsey will be manager next season.
That's the point Les, managers should be picked on ability rather than the colour of their skin whether it's white, black or lilac.0 -
The jobs his .....if he keeps them up.
No sh1t Sherlock.0 -
It's clear that there is a disparity between the number of black players and the number of black managers, but I'm not convinced at all that it's down to racism.
- I would have thought that the hiring decision would always be looking for the best candidate for the job as money is involved
- There's clearly no similar issue when you look at playing staff, coaches or even punditry
- Where are the out of work black managers that aren't getting a look in?
I'd like to see the race stats surrounding % of training badges completed compared with the % that manage to get a job with a club utilising that badge. Perhaps more should be done to encourage and feed in other races at the lower end (training) to create more candidates?
I mean, you wouldnt want 50% of qualified black coaches getting management jobs compared with 10% of white coaches based purely on skin colour because that would be... oh1 -
He used to appear on kick it out adverts talking about how abuse really upset him.
He's currently on an FA charge for abusing a match official.3 -
Les Ferdinand has stepped down from his role as Director of Football at QPR after more than eight years at the club.
https://www.qpr.co.uk/news/club-news/les-ferdinand-steps-down-160123/
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I mean Sol did a pretty good job at maccielsfield and did as well as could be expected at southend with their problems. EDIT - just seen this originally was posted in 2015I-SAW-POUSO-PLAY said:Been on SSN moaning about the lack of black managers and , in the next breath, says QPR cannot guarantee Chris Ramsey will be manager next season. That's the point Les, managers should be picked on ability rather than the colour of their skin whether it's white, black or lilac.
Exactly right. People like Les Ferdinand, Sol Campbell think they should be able just to walk into top jobs, not the way to do it!!!! Lets look at our old favourite Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, he went abroad to manage and then wanted a job in England and has had to go to Burton Albion to cut his teeth. I can't imagine Sol or Les doing that.
Genuine question though to anyone though, why is it black football players make the transition to management as much as white players ? Im sure as with most complex issues there is more than just one reason and it cant solely be racism/discrimination but i dont think it can be compeltely eliminated either as a cause.0 -
Lampard walked straight into Derby, didn't succeed there and got a chance at Chelsea. He got sacked there (maybe unfairly) and ends up at Everton, does a poor job and ends up back at Chelsea where he is abysmal. Steven Gerrard walks straight into Rangers.I-SAW-POUSO-PLAY said:Been on SSN moaning about the lack of black managers and , in the next breath, says QPR cannot guarantee Chris Ramsey will be manager next season. That's the point Les, managers should be picked on ability rather than the colour of their skin whether it's white, black or lilac.
Exactly right. People like Les Ferdinand, Sol Campbell think they should be able just to walk into top jobs, not the way to do it!!!! Lets look at our old favourite Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, he went abroad to manage and then wanted a job in England and has had to go to Burton Albion to cut his teeth. I can't imagine Sol or Les doing that.
The likes of Sol Campbell and Paul Ince start at a lower league club. There is something not quite right.15 -
It's hardly improved since 2015 either.talalsrightfoot said:
I mean Sol did a pretty good job at maccielsfield and did as well as could be expected at southend with their problems. EDIT - just seen this originally was posted in 2015
Genuine question though to anyone though, why is it black football players make the transition to management as much as white players ? Im sure as with most complex issues there is more than just one reason and it cant solely be racism/discrimination but i dont think it can be compeltely eliminated either as a cause.
The whole hire the best man for the job always makes me laugh. Although maybe not wholly applicable to football the best man for the job tends to be the upper class white man who was sent to private school and had access to ample opportunities people from different backgrounds didn't have. Although at least this is steadily improving.
With the controversy at both Yorkshire cricket and Crawley Town in the last few years racism can definitely not be ruled out. At the moment there isn't a massive culture of black players going to get their coaching badges (maybe this is because they feel they won't have opportunities if they do), with time that'll hopefully pick up.2 -
I'm in agreement that the number of black managers is low but I think the reasons that Sol Campbell and Paul Ince are overlooked is because they are not very good.
darren Moore is an interesting one. If he gets a mid table finish next year, will premier league yo-yo clubs take a punt on him1 -
Darren Moore only got an opportunity because Pardew was utterly useless and has done very well as a manager IMO. Was a victim of racism last season.
That's the Pardew who was awful with us and Saints and then landed the Newcastle job.0 -
Although I agree that barriers exist and the racial balance is not being reflected in progression to management, there are examples of high profile black players moving straight into high profile management roles.Friend Or Defoe said:
Lampard walked straight into Derby, didn't succeed there and got a chance at Chelsea. He got sacked there (maybe unfairly) and ends up at Everton, does a poor job and ends up back at Chelsea where he is abysmal. Steven Gerrard walks straight into Rangers.I-SAW-POUSO-PLAY said:Been on SSN moaning about the lack of black managers and , in the next breath, says QPR cannot guarantee Chris Ramsey will be manager next season. That's the point Les, managers should be picked on ability rather than the colour of their skin whether it's white, black or lilac.
Exactly right. People like Les Ferdinand, Sol Campbell think they should be able just to walk into top jobs, not the way to do it!!!! Lets look at our old favourite Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, he went abroad to manage and then wanted a job in England and has had to go to Burton Albion to cut his teeth. I can't imagine Sol or Les doing that.
The likes of Sol Campbell and Paul Ince start at a lower league club. There is something not quite right.
One such player was in charge & even generated one of the most famous newspaper headlines of all time
"Super Caley go ballistic, Celtic are atrocious"
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Darren Moore has a very good career win rate, I like him and hope he does well (in his next job).
I wasn't aware that he was abused last year, disappointing to hear0 -
John Barnes openly gives the opinion that racism is the problem.Oakster2 said:
Although I agree that barriers exist and the racial balance is not being reflected in progression to management, there are examples of high profile black players moving straight into high profile management roles.Friend Or Defoe said:
Lampard walked straight into Derby, didn't succeed there and got a chance at Chelsea. He got sacked there (maybe unfairly) and ends up at Everton, does a poor job and ends up back at Chelsea where he is abysmal. Steven Gerrard walks straight into Rangers.I-SAW-POUSO-PLAY said:Been on SSN moaning about the lack of black managers and , in the next breath, says QPR cannot guarantee Chris Ramsey will be manager next season. That's the point Les, managers should be picked on ability rather than the colour of their skin whether it's white, black or lilac.
Exactly right. People like Les Ferdinand, Sol Campbell think they should be able just to walk into top jobs, not the way to do it!!!! Lets look at our old favourite Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, he went abroad to manage and then wanted a job in England and has had to go to Burton Albion to cut his teeth. I can't imagine Sol or Les doing that.
The likes of Sol Campbell and Paul Ince start at a lower league club. There is something not quite right.
One such player was in charge & even generated one of the most famous newspaper headlines of all time
"Super Caley go ballistic, Celtic are atrocious"0 -
About where I am.Todds_right_hook said:I'm in agreement that the number of black managers is low but I think the reasons that Sol Campbell and Paul Ince are overlooked is because they are not very good.
darren Moore is an interesting one. If he gets a mid table finish next year, will premier league yo-yo clubs take a punt on himTo add, I don’t believe there’s anyone (worth listening to) stating black managers should be given jobs because they’re black, they’re saying they should be in the running. And that points to structural problem rather than owners being racist.3 -
I think sometimes we hear racism in football and our go to is that its people using the n word or saying black whatever, when in reality it can also be stereotypes like an owner or MD not appointing a black manager because they were maybe a fast winger and therefore not considered an intelligent enough player to succeed as a manager. Which in itself may not obtusely racist but can fall in to sterotypes that hold people back.
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Superb headline, but you're going back a long time.Oakster2 said:
Although I agree that barriers exist and the racial balance is not being reflected in progression to management, there are examples of high profile black players moving straight into high profile management roles.Friend Or Defoe said:
Lampard walked straight into Derby, didn't succeed there and got a chance at Chelsea. He got sacked there (maybe unfairly) and ends up at Everton, does a poor job and ends up back at Chelsea where he is abysmal. Steven Gerrard walks straight into Rangers.I-SAW-POUSO-PLAY said:Been on SSN moaning about the lack of black managers and , in the next breath, says QPR cannot guarantee Chris Ramsey will be manager next season. That's the point Les, managers should be picked on ability rather than the colour of their skin whether it's white, black or lilac.
Exactly right. People like Les Ferdinand, Sol Campbell think they should be able just to walk into top jobs, not the way to do it!!!! Lets look at our old favourite Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, he went abroad to manage and then wanted a job in England and has had to go to Burton Albion to cut his teeth. I can't imagine Sol or Les doing that.
The likes of Sol Campbell and Paul Ince start at a lower league club. There is something not quite right.
One such player was in charge & even generated one of the most famous newspaper headlines of all time
"Super Caley go ballistic, Celtic are atrocious"0 -
Darren Moore Leaves Wednesday by Mutual Consent. Bit odd for a playoff winning manager who achieved over 90 points last season.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65956639
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wow, odd one!0
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When I look back at all the people I have hired during a recruitment process it's clear that I must have some level of bias. And I say this as someone who likes to think I don't have a racist bone in my body.
The people I have gone for largely reflect my own world. People that come from similar backgrounds and have had similar experiences to me. I don't think I have hired a single person who wasn't white.
That wasn't remotely intentional, and I don't know how many non-white people even applied for jobs I was advertising. I am sure many must have. Perhaps I didn't even select the CVs of people with names that weren't the kind I would expect to see on my Facebook friend list.
The point I am making here is that racism doesn't have to be overt or intentional. The disparity in the numbers between black players turning into managers is stark, and while prejudice and racism might not be exactly the right words given the way we use them elsewhere, I do believe a heavy degree of bias is at play here, conscious or otherwise.11 -
It’s called unconscious bias. Training courses are available.JiMMy 85 said:When I look back at all the people I have hired during a recruitment process it's clear that I must have some level of bias. And I say this as someone who likes to think I don't have a racist bone in my body.
The people I have gone for largely reflect my own world. People that come from similar backgrounds and have had similar experiences to me. I don't think I have hired a single person who wasn't white.
That wasn't remotely intentional, and I don't know how many non-white people even applied for jobs I was advertising. I am sure many must have. Perhaps I didn't even select the CVs of people with names that weren't the kind I would expect to see on my Facebook friend list.
The point I am making here is that racism doesn't have to be overt or intentional. The disparity in the numbers between black players turning into managers is stark, and while prejudice and racism might not be exactly the right words given the way we use them elsewhere, I do believe a heavy degree of bias is at play here, conscious or otherwise.0 -
There likely is an element of unconscious bias at play……but it does not appear to extend to the hiring of players. Or if it does it does seem to cause the same kind of accusation of racism.0
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Well your really helped the conversation there, nice one.Solidgone said:
It’s called unconscious bias. Training courses are available.JiMMy 85 said:When I look back at all the people I have hired during a recruitment process it's clear that I must have some level of bias. And I say this as someone who likes to think I don't have a racist bone in my body.
The people I have gone for largely reflect my own world. People that come from similar backgrounds and have had similar experiences to me. I don't think I have hired a single person who wasn't white.
That wasn't remotely intentional, and I don't know how many non-white people even applied for jobs I was advertising. I am sure many must have. Perhaps I didn't even select the CVs of people with names that weren't the kind I would expect to see on my Facebook friend list.
The point I am making here is that racism doesn't have to be overt or intentional. The disparity in the numbers between black players turning into managers is stark, and while prejudice and racism might not be exactly the right words given the way we use them elsewhere, I do believe a heavy degree of bias is at play here, conscious or otherwise.2 -
Something to do with leadership or strategy levels I think. I don’t think there’s a problem at say entry for jobs but at board/senior management level there is so I guess that’s how it translates to football.SuedeAdidas said:There likely is an element of unconscious bias at play……but it does not appear to extend to the hiring of players. Or if it does it does seem to cause the same kind of accusation of racism.
Be sure to bring this up at the boozer next time my old man is there I’m sure he’ll enlighten you on the subject..1 -
Because usually that player has a great deal of history to prove that they're an excellent player, more difficult when you're looking for a first managerial position with no experience.SuedeAdidas said:There likely is an element of unconscious bias at play……but it does not appear to extend to the hiring of players. Or if it does it does seem to cause the same kind of accusation of racism.
I think I read something once about the NFL where there was a higher bias towards positions (and coaching) that focused on a player being deemed 'intelligent' (such as quarterback or coach) than positions that focused more on physical attributes (such as linebacker or defensive end). This led to the introduction of the Rooney rule.0 -
I think this is a powerful point . There is evidence that humans instinctively feel more comfortable around people who look and sound like themselves. It’s also true that disparities in numbers in jobs or any minority will be multi- faceted. One of a number of reasons will almost certainly be racism .JiMMy 85 said:When I look back at all the people I have hired during a recruitment process it's clear that I must have some level of bias. And I say this as someone who likes to think I don't have a racist bone in my body.
The people I have gone for largely reflect my own world. People that come from similar backgrounds and have had similar experiences to me. I don't think I have hired a single person who wasn't white.
That wasn't remotely intentional, and I don't know how many non-white people even applied for jobs I was advertising. I am sure many must have. Perhaps I didn't even select the CVs of people with names that weren't the kind I would expect to see on my Facebook friend list.
The point I am making here is that racism doesn't have to be overt or intentional. The disparity in the numbers between black players turning into managers is stark, and while prejudice and racism might not be exactly the right words given the way we use them elsewhere, I do believe a heavy degree of bias is at play here, conscious or otherwise.I have leadership team of 30 with 8 BAME staff and 3-8 of the Exec team are black and women. I have never hired someone on the basis of the colour of their skin .I.E. positive discrimination
what I am told by my black colleagues is that seeing black faces in the leadership encourages applicants to apply and people can kind of sense often wether an organisation or team is a place where “ people like me” can flourish
I am a white man but I am explicit to all staff that it’s my role as leader to ensure we are a diverse and inclusive organisation. In doing this I am well read on the subject , I have used a reverse mentor and I’m not afraid to have difficult conversations even when I’m sharing that I feel identity politics is damaging to all., One thing I have found more than anything is that ( just like white folk) black people are not a homogeneous group with the same views and opinions. And most black colleagues and friends do not much like white liberals fighting on their behalf in cheesy ways
Most importantly I have found the richness of a diverse community of staff across all aspects , race gender, faith , sexuality , disability etc to be one of the most fulfilling aspects of my career.4
