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England Cricket 2023
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LOL @ Cummins. More of this in the Ashes please0
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Ben Stokes isn't looking like he'll be fit to bowl anywhere near as much as we need.
So of course you'd pick Green out of the two given a choice.1 -
If Stokes is unable to bowl (even if he does it won't be many overs) then Green all day long.Chizz said:
I obviously rate Stokes far higher than you do!Addick Addict said:
If they were both 23 then it would be a coin toss. Now it's not a contest.Chizz said:
Would you choose Green ahead of Stokes?Addick Addict said:The Ashes could well be decided by the balance of the two sides. Green, a 23 year old, with his ability to bowl up to 90mph, gives the Aussies that. Stokes, at almost a decade older and a dodgy knee, almost certainly won't. Add to that they can perm any fit three from four other world class seamers and they have one of the best spinners around too whereas our front line spinner is out for the duration and I'm genuinely concerned that we won't even get the drawn series previously predicted.1 -
Which brings up the argument again, if Stokes can't bowl much, should we go into the game with a 4 man attack (including Moeen who may well be very rusty)?
The elephant in the room is Crawley, again, as the weakest batsman. And the lack of an opener - Stokes, Bairstow, Pope? Otherwise you could have Bairstow at say 6, Moeen at 7, and Wood or Woakes at 8.
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Open with Moeen, solves all the problems!!North Lower Neil said:Which brings up the argument again, if Stokes can't bowl much, should we go into the game with a 4 man attack (including Moeen who may well be very rusty)?
The elephant in the room is Crawley, again, as the weakest batsman. And the lack of an opener - Stokes, Bairstow, Pope? Otherwise you could have Bairstow at say 6, Moeen at 7, and Wood or Woakes at 8.4 -
It's dangerous to write Stokes off but I even wonder, if that knee is as bad as it appears, whether he might retire after the Ashes from Test cricket. If that happens it would give Sam Curran the opportunity to step in as that fourth seamer especially as his batting has improved so much since he last played in Tests. He could even open the bowling in the right conditions (and that would only be when the ball is hooping).
So far as the captaincy is concerned, whilst Pope is vice captain, I would prefer the job to go to Brook, assuming the latter has a decent Ashes, for three reasons - one because Pope as skipper and batting at 3 is a lot of pressure, two because Brook is more in the Stokes/McCullum mode of "in your face" cricket and three because it might commit Brook to playing in the IPL only and not every other T20 competition going.
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On a helpful pitch the Aussie attack much less dangerous when the ball's lost its freshness
That attack's stats enhanced by Indian batsmen leaving straight balls but undermined by butter fingered fielders and no balls for overstepping
A shame that the Indian bowling "attack" served up such an opulent buffet on day 1 for the Aussie batters to get a lovely long net
Plenty of simple lessons for England's makeshift lineup for Edgbaston next week0 -
We've got tickets to Day 4 at Edgbaston, Stanley Barnes stand, considering getting Day 5 tickets just in case it gets that far, noticed there's a few still available.
Any recommendations on where to sit from the regulars? Hollies for the atmosphere or somewhere else for the best view?0 -
Hopefully the dropped catches and no balls carry on throughout the summer.2
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This is an interesting view.Addick Addict said:
Perhaps because we can't afford to have a Brearley type captain. Brearley wasn't expected to deliver with the ball and the balance is all wrong when Stokes cannot do that. Stokes last 6 Tests since the end of our domestic season - 2 wickets @ 89 apiece and 282 runs scored at an average of 31.33. He bowled one over in the whole of the IPL.Chizz said:
Interesting. Would you care to summarise why?Leuth said:
Absolutely, 100%, with fucking bells on. Silly question tbhChizz said:
Would you choose Green ahead of Stokes?Addick Addict said:The Ashes could well be decided by the balance of the two sides. Green, a 23 year old, with his ability to bowl up to 90mph, gives the Aussies that. Stokes, at almost a decade older and a dodgy knee, almost certainly won't. Add to that they can perm any fit three from four other world class seamers and they have one of the best spinners around too whereas our front line spinner is out for the duration and I'm genuinely concerned that we won't even get the drawn series previously predicted.
I wouldn't, because Stokes is too valuable as an inspirational captain, has scored five times as many runs and seven times as many wickets as Green, is a spectacular fielder when called on, has a spectacular record as captain, is only eight years older than Green, has won everything - ODI World Cup, T20 World Cup, Ashes - and is the team's talisman. Whereas Green (at the time of writing) has a batting average of 6.00 and a bowling average of 37.00 in England.
Why would you put Green so far ahead of Stokes?0 -
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Here, from my experience are the only two places you should consider watching an Edgbaston Test from:North Lower Neil said:We've got tickets to Day 4 at Edgbaston, Stanley Barnes stand, considering getting Day 5 tickets just in case it gets that far, noticed there's a few still available.
Any recommendations on where to sit from the regulars? Hollies for the atmosphere or somewhere else for the best view?
1. The Hollies Stand (unless it's a day-night game, in which case, don't bother, because you won't see anything while the sun's setting)
2. On TV
If you sit anywhere other than in the Holiies Stand, you will spend the whole time wishing you were in there.0 -
I'm happy to sit elsewhere than the Hollies! I like the newish stand at one end.0
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I think if you reach 360-3 in the first innings of a Test, you should expect to put yourself in a position to have the choice to enforce a follow-on.
To that extent, I'm glad to see Australia failing to exploit that start.0 -
As is the view that Green can be a spectacular fielder when called on too as evidenced by that unbelievable catch at gully from a ball that came from the full face of the bat. He can also chase a ball to the boundary without fear of breaking down.Chizz said:
This is an interesting view.Addick Addict said:
Perhaps because we can't afford to have a Brearley type captain. Brearley wasn't expected to deliver with the ball and the balance is all wrong when Stokes cannot do that. Stokes last 6 Tests since the end of our domestic season - 2 wickets @ 89 apiece and 282 runs scored at an average of 31.33. He bowled one over in the whole of the IPL.Chizz said:
Interesting. Would you care to summarise why?Leuth said:
Absolutely, 100%, with fucking bells on. Silly question tbhChizz said:
Would you choose Green ahead of Stokes?Addick Addict said:The Ashes could well be decided by the balance of the two sides. Green, a 23 year old, with his ability to bowl up to 90mph, gives the Aussies that. Stokes, at almost a decade older and a dodgy knee, almost certainly won't. Add to that they can perm any fit three from four other world class seamers and they have one of the best spinners around too whereas our front line spinner is out for the duration and I'm genuinely concerned that we won't even get the drawn series previously predicted.
I wouldn't, because Stokes is too valuable as an inspirational captain, has scored five times as many runs and seven times as many wickets as Green, is a spectacular fielder when called on, has a spectacular record as captain, is only eight years older than Green, has won everything - ODI World Cup, T20 World Cup, Ashes - and is the team's talisman. Whereas Green (at the time of writing) has a batting average of 6.00 and a bowling average of 37.00 in England.
Why would you put Green so far ahead of Stokes?0 -
Green has to be ahead of Stokes at the moment, because Stokes can barely bowl. Indeed at the moment Root is more of an all-rounder than Stokes.2
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They wouldn't want to exploit it anyway because they don't want to be batting last when spin, as well as the existing uneven bounce for the seamers, might come into play. So, to that extent, nothing has been lost. But they will be disappointed that they didn't score more and concede less.Chizz said:I think if you reach 360-3 in the first innings of a Test, you should expect to put yourself in a position to have the choice to enforce a follow-on.
To that extent, I'm glad to see Australia failing to exploit that start.0 -
Yes, that last sentence was the point I was making. If you get such a good start, you should expect to dominate the succeeding sessions far more than they have.Addick Addict said:
They wouldn't want to exploit it anyway because they don't want to be batting last when spin, as well as the existing uneven bounce for the seamers, might come into play. So, to that extent, nothing has been lost. But they will be disappointed that they didn't score more and concede less.Chizz said:I think if you reach 360-3 in the first innings of a Test, you should expect to put yourself in a position to have the choice to enforce a follow-on.
To that extent, I'm glad to see Australia failing to exploit that start.0 -
Green's bowling average in England is 22 (at the time of writing)Addick Addict said:
Perhaps because we can't afford to have a Brearley type captain. Brearley wasn't expected to deliver with the ball and the balance is all wrong when Stokes cannot do that. Stokes last 6 Tests since the end of our domestic season - 2 wickets @ 89 apiece and 282 runs scored at an average of 31.33. He bowled one over in the whole of the IPL.Chizz said:
Interesting. Would you care to summarise why?Leuth said:
Absolutely, 100%, with fucking bells on. Silly question tbhChizz said:
Would you choose Green ahead of Stokes?Addick Addict said:The Ashes could well be decided by the balance of the two sides. Green, a 23 year old, with his ability to bowl up to 90mph, gives the Aussies that. Stokes, at almost a decade older and a dodgy knee, almost certainly won't. Add to that they can perm any fit three from four other world class seamers and they have one of the best spinners around too whereas our front line spinner is out for the duration and I'm genuinely concerned that we won't even get the drawn series previously predicted.
I wouldn't, because Stokes is too valuable as an inspirational captain, has scored five times as many runs and seven times as many wickets as Green, is a spectacular fielder when called on, has a spectacular record as captain, is only eight years older than Green, has won everything - ODI World Cup, T20 World Cup, Ashes - and is the team's talisman. Whereas Green (at the time of writing) has a batting average of 6.00 and a bowling average of 37.00 in England.
Why would you put Green so far ahead of Stokes?
I'm sure you can also do better than to use a sample size of one innings as a comparative too so far as Green is concerned. If England can pick a batsman based on 63 innings at an average of 28.26 then I think we can give Green a bit more of the benefit of the doubt than using that one innings with the bat and half an innings with the ball as defining evidence of his ability in England even if that wicket at 37 is infinitely better than the form Stokes has shown in the last eight months.1 -
Good lad! Let's see if he can improve on his paltry batting average later.Addick Addict said:
Green's bowling average in England is 22 (at the time of writing)Addick Addict said:
Perhaps because we can't afford to have a Brearley type captain. Brearley wasn't expected to deliver with the ball and the balance is all wrong when Stokes cannot do that. Stokes last 6 Tests since the end of our domestic season - 2 wickets @ 89 apiece and 282 runs scored at an average of 31.33. He bowled one over in the whole of the IPL.Chizz said:
Interesting. Would you care to summarise why?Leuth said:
Absolutely, 100%, with fucking bells on. Silly question tbhChizz said:
Would you choose Green ahead of Stokes?Addick Addict said:The Ashes could well be decided by the balance of the two sides. Green, a 23 year old, with his ability to bowl up to 90mph, gives the Aussies that. Stokes, at almost a decade older and a dodgy knee, almost certainly won't. Add to that they can perm any fit three from four other world class seamers and they have one of the best spinners around too whereas our front line spinner is out for the duration and I'm genuinely concerned that we won't even get the drawn series previously predicted.
I wouldn't, because Stokes is too valuable as an inspirational captain, has scored five times as many runs and seven times as many wickets as Green, is a spectacular fielder when called on, has a spectacular record as captain, is only eight years older than Green, has won everything - ODI World Cup, T20 World Cup, Ashes - and is the team's talisman. Whereas Green (at the time of writing) has a batting average of 6.00 and a bowling average of 37.00 in England.
Why would you put Green so far ahead of Stokes?
I'm sure you can also do better than to use a sample size of one innings as a comparative too so far as Green is concerned. If England can pick a batsman based on 63 innings at an average of 28.26 then I think we can give Green a bit more of the benefit of the doubt than using that one innings with the bat and half an innings with the ball as defining evidence of his ability in England even if that wicket at 37 is infinitely better than the form Stokes has shown in the last eight months.0 -
Has Stokes ever actually been a proper test all rounder?
In England Woakes averages 35 with the bat and 22 with the ball, I don't think anyone would consider him a genuine all rounder, more a bowler that can bat.
In England Stokes averages 39 with the bat and 30 ball. More of a batsman that can bowl?0 -
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Question for anyone that knows...
Does the DRS countdown timer start before the third umpire determines whether the delivery was a no ball? And, if not, should it?0 -
I would definitely have him down as more of a batter that bowls, than an all-rounder.Cafc43v3r said:Has Stokes ever actually been a proper test all rounder?
In England Woakes averages 35 with the bat and 22 with the ball, I don't think anyone would consider him a genuine all rounder, more a bowler that can bat.
In England Stokes averages 39 with the bat and 30 ball. More of a batsman that can bowl?0 -
Australia are currently odds on to win the Ashes series:
Australia 1.99
England 2.68
Draw 8.000 -
I suppose if you have the definition of an "all rounder" as someone who would get in your best team as a batsman AND as a bowler he isn't and not many people ever are.Chizz said:
I would definitely have him down as more of a batter that bowls, than an all-rounder.Cafc43v3r said:Has Stokes ever actually been a proper test all rounder?
In England Woakes averages 35 with the bat and 22 with the ball, I don't think anyone would consider him a genuine all rounder, more a bowler that can bat.
In England Stokes averages 39 with the bat and 30 ball. More of a batsman that can bowl?
Flintoff spent more time as a batsman that could bowl then a bowler that could bat than as a genuine all rounder.
But then the opposite argument of would Stokes have played almost 100 tests if he couldn't bowl at all comes into play.1 -
This is a proper Test match2
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The way these two are running together you wouldn't think that they have batted together so many times for Australia, Queensland and the Brisbane Heat0
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yep been shaping up very nicely, although australia do look like they've pulled too far ahead... we shall see!Addick Addict said:This is a proper Test match0 -
Why was it a stupid question?Leuth said:
Absolutely, 100%, with fucking bells on. Silly question tbhChizz said:
Would you choose Green ahead of Stokes?Addick Addict said:The Ashes could well be decided by the balance of the two sides. Green, a 23 year old, with his ability to bowl up to 90mph, gives the Aussies that. Stokes, at almost a decade older and a dodgy knee, almost certainly won't. Add to that they can perm any fit three from four other world class seamers and they have one of the best spinners around too whereas our front line spinner is out for the duration and I'm genuinely concerned that we won't even get the drawn series previously predicted.
has green ever paced an innings and seen a team over the line in an ashes test match like stoakes has?
Can green motivate and lift a team like stokes has?
Im in the green over stokes club but it wasn't a silly question1 -
That's a dick response. Just because someone has a different view to you, they are not automatically wrong and do not deserve the level of rudeness in your replies.Leuth said:*drums fingers, patiently waiting for the people who actually watch cricket to show up*1 -
I wouldn't have been this rude to any other poster, but Chizz gives easily as good as he getsTodds_right_hook said:
That's a dick response. Just because someone has a different view to you, they are not automatically wrong and do not deserve the level of rudeness in your replies.Leuth said:*drums fingers, patiently waiting for the people who actually watch cricket to show up*1
