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Italy vs England - Euro 2024 Qualifier
Comments
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A lot of people just simply don’t know how to react to someone who is actually doing a good job for England. There always has to be some sort of mental gymnastics to discredit any achievement.Cafc43v3r said:
Apart from the France game where he went 433, we had over 50% of the possession and lost because we missed a penalty? Plus he made 3 or 4 attacking substitutions.North Lower Neil said:
Didn't we best Spain etc in that first Nations League? The one tome Southgate went really attacking for a week or so?ForeverAddickted said:First team we've beaten in the FIFA top 10 rankings under Southgate?
Or the world cup games we scored 6 in?
But that was the one week?
I am convinced a lot of people are so down on Southgate and most of them don't even know why. Not winning the world cup is hardly a reason.For some reason, the England national team brings out the most irrational thought processes of football fans. We’re a weird country with this stuff.9 -
Yeah, we should just go back to doing what we did before when we let Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney and the rest play to their strengths. Oh wait. The problem with England fans is they always want the thing that's different to what they're getting. We haven't won anything since 1966 and I swear it's karma for the kind of fans we have. Southgate has now won 50 games as England manager, reached the World Cup semi-finals for the first time since 1990 and only the third time in the country's history, reached the final of the Euros for the first time ever, narrowly losing on penalties and has never done worse than a quarter final. The facts are there, no-one has been more successful than Southgate since Sir Alf Ramsey, but there's this idiotic idea that all the things we do to get to these late-stage matches don't count for anything (anyone could have done that!) and then when we don't win there's these hilarious, genuinely pathetic tantruming that a fictional manager could have won it with the apparently genius players at his disposal. There's a reason Southgate plays a consistent way with a consistent team and that's because it consistently gets results. We've done the best we've done since the 60s, we've just beaten Italy away from home but AndyG(!) thinks Southgate is 'braindead' because he had to be all sad when Saka missed that penalty. I honestly hope we sack Southgate and go back to picking flavour of the month players, playing random tactical styles and bombing out of tournaments early every year after a fraught qualifying period. It will be hilarious. There's a lack of logic attached to seeing someone take England further than they've gone in decades and somehow convincing yourself that it had nothing to do with the manager and if Steve Evans had had that mighty Jordan Pickford and John Stones he would have done the same that I just can't help you with. I hope Southgate takes the millions he's earned from making England quite good for once, sticks his feet up in front of a TV ahead of the next tournament he's not in charge of and laughs and laughs and laughs.AndyG said:
You really think that ?Garrymanilow said:
DerangedAndyG said:
Nope but if had any brain or bravery he wouldn't revert everytime to trying to defend a lead when literally everyone knows defending isnt exactly our strong suit, if he hadnt done that and just let the team.play to its strengths I would say the sudden death penalties wouldnt have happened. Oh and I suspect we would also have won atleast 1 WC and 1 Euros.Cafc43v3r said:
Bloke is a numb skull and just wont learn
Look at the players he has had at his disposal ? How anyone can say he hasnt cost us tournies is beyond me.he is tactically braindead and will always revert to a defensive mindset when in a winning position relying on our weaknesses made even worse by insanely starting players who have played more minutes for England than they have their clubs. Yes we will qualify for the Euros but I bet we will lose it from being in a winning position and in control of the game. I give the bloke credit for sorting out the shitshow he inherited and creating the morale that exists now but he will never win anything
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In some positions but by no means all, far from it.MuttleyCAFC said:
I agree with you. I knew the second half would follow that pattern. Italy lack quality in front of goal but we did score two and should have got three and if a team like England do that, they will beat them. You have to see a pattern with the negativity which could cost us in tournaments. It isn't as if Southgate has poor players to pick from. We probably have as good as anybody in that respect.AndyG said:
Yes ofcourse it is a great result I just dont get the Southgate love in. I appreciate I'm in the minority on here but I just think the last few years performances have been in spite of him and when the chips are down he costs us actually winning tournamentsValleyGary said:AndyG said:
Nope but if had any brain or bravery he wouldn't revert everytime to trying to defend a lead when literally everyone knows defending isnt exactly our strong suit, if he hadnt done that and just let the team.play to its strengths I would say the sudden death penalties wouldnt have happened. Oh and I suspect we would also have won atleast 1 WC and 1 Euros.Cafc43v3r said:
Bloke is a numb skull and just wont learn
You know we just won right. Away from home against the other good team in the group.0 -
Really? I think that we are pretty limited, especially when you look at central defence.AndyG said:
You really think that ?Garrymanilow said:
DerangedAndyG said:
Nope but if had any brain or bravery he wouldn't revert everytime to trying to defend a lead when literally everyone knows defending isnt exactly our strong suit, if he hadnt done that and just let the team.play to its strengths I would say the sudden death penalties wouldnt have happened. Oh and I suspect we would also have won atleast 1 WC and 1 Euros.Cafc43v3r said:
Bloke is a numb skull and just wont learn
Look at the players he has had at his disposal ? How anyone can say he hasnt cost us tournies is beyond me.he is tactically braindead and will always revert to a defensive mindset when in a winning position relying on our weaknesses made even worse by insanely starting players who have played more minutes for England than they have their clubs. Yes we will qualify for the Euros but I bet we will lose it from being in a winning position and in control of the game. I give the bloke credit for sorting out the shitshow he inherited and creating the morale that exists now but he will never win anything
It's not as if top English players are that numerous in Premier League. I do think that he should consider some other players we have playing in the other leagues overseas though.1 -
The country evaluation over club is ridiculous. I don’t know if it’s an affiliation thing or what, but it definitely clouds expectation and performance review. If Charlton went to Barnsley at did that we’d all be fucking delighted.6
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Offensively and in midfield we have genuine riches.0
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Can we get a promote. Absolutely nailed.Garrymanilow said:
Yeah, we should just go back to doing what we did before when we let Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney and the rest play to their strengths. Oh wait. The problem with England fans is they always want the thing that's different to what they're getting. We haven't won anything since 1966 and I swear it's karma for the kind of fans we have. Southgate has now won 50 games as England manager, reached the World Cup semi-finals for the first time since 1990 and only the third time in the country's history, reached the final of the Euros for the first time ever, narrowly losing on penalties and has never done worse than a quarter final. The facts are there, no-one has been more successful than Southgate since Sir Alf Ramsey, but there's this idiotic idea that all the things we do to get to these late-stage matches don't count for anything (anyone could have done that!) and then when we don't win there's these hilarious, genuinely pathetic tantruming that a fictional manager could have won it with the apparently genius players at his disposal. There's a reason Southgate plays a consistent way with a consistent team and that's because it consistently gets results. We've done the best we've done since the 60s, we've just beaten Italy away from home but AndyG(!) thinks Southgate is 'braindead' because he had to be all sad when Saka missed that penalty. I honestly hope we sack Southgate and go back to picking flavour of the month players, playing random tactical styles and bombing out of tournaments early every year after a fraught qualifying period. It will be hilarious. There's a lack of logic attached to seeing someone take England further than they've gone in decades and somehow convincing yourself that it had nothing to do with the manager and if Steve Evans had had that mighty Jordan Pickford and John Stones he would have done the same that I just can't help you with. I hope Southgate takes the millions he's earned from making England quite good for once, sticks his feet up in front of a TV ahead of the next tournament he's not in charge of and laughs and laughs and laughs.AndyG said:
You really think that ?Garrymanilow said:
DerangedAndyG said:
Nope but if had any brain or bravery he wouldn't revert everytime to trying to defend a lead when literally everyone knows defending isnt exactly our strong suit, if he hadnt done that and just let the team.play to its strengths I would say the sudden death penalties wouldnt have happened. Oh and I suspect we would also have won atleast 1 WC and 1 Euros.Cafc43v3r said:
Bloke is a numb skull and just wont learn
Look at the players he has had at his disposal ? How anyone can say he hasnt cost us tournies is beyond me.he is tactically braindead and will always revert to a defensive mindset when in a winning position relying on our weaknesses made even worse by insanely starting players who have played more minutes for England than they have their clubs. Yes we will qualify for the Euros but I bet we will lose it from being in a winning position and in control of the game. I give the bloke credit for sorting out the shitshow he inherited and creating the morale that exists now but he will never win anything3 -
The one element I do struggle with the concept that we have players in our team who aren't regular starters for their clubs. We are virtually three quarters of the way through the season and yet Maguire, with just 5 PL starts and Phillips with 56 minutes in total in the PL played the full game. How can they be expected to be up with the pace for 90 minutes when they aren't trusted to do that for their club at the highest level of football available to them?2
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It's a brilliant post and would be promoted worthy if he could find theValleyGary said:
Can we get a promote. Absolutely nailed.Garrymanilow said:
Yeah, we should just go back to doing what we did before when we let Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney and the rest play to their strengths. Oh wait. The problem with England fans is they always want the thing that's different to what they're getting. We haven't won anything since 1966 and I swear it's karma for the kind of fans we have. Southgate has now won 50 games as England manager, reached the World Cup semi-finals for the first time since 1990 and only the third time in the country's history, reached the final of the Euros for the first time ever, narrowly losing on penalties and has never done worse than a quarter final. The facts are there, no-one has been more successful than Southgate since Sir Alf Ramsey, but there's this idiotic idea that all the things we do to get to these late-stage matches don't count for anything (anyone could have done that!) and then when we don't win there's these hilarious, genuinely pathetic tantruming that a fictional manager could have won it with the apparently genius players at his disposal. There's a reason Southgate plays a consistent way with a consistent team and that's because it consistently gets results. We've done the best we've done since the 60s, we've just beaten Italy away from home but AndyG(!) thinks Southgate is 'braindead' because he had to be all sad when Saka missed that penalty. I honestly hope we sack Southgate and go back to picking flavour of the month players, playing random tactical styles and bombing out of tournaments early every year after a fraught qualifying period. It will be hilarious. There's a lack of logic attached to seeing someone take England further than they've gone in decades and somehow convincing yourself that it had nothing to do with the manager and if Steve Evans had had that mighty Jordan Pickford and John Stones he would have done the same that I just can't help you with. I hope Southgate takes the millions he's earned from making England quite good for once, sticks his feet up in front of a TV ahead of the next tournament he's not in charge of and laughs and laughs and laughs.AndyG said:
You really think that ?Garrymanilow said:
DerangedAndyG said:
Nope but if had any brain or bravery he wouldn't revert everytime to trying to defend a lead when literally everyone knows defending isnt exactly our strong suit, if he hadnt done that and just let the team.play to its strengths I would say the sudden death penalties wouldnt have happened. Oh and I suspect we would also have won atleast 1 WC and 1 Euros.Cafc43v3r said:
Bloke is a numb skull and just wont learn
Look at the players he has had at his disposal ? How anyone can say he hasnt cost us tournies is beyond me.he is tactically braindead and will always revert to a defensive mindset when in a winning position relying on our weaknesses made even worse by insanely starting players who have played more minutes for England than they have their clubs. Yes we will qualify for the Euros but I bet we will lose it from being in a winning position and in control of the game. I give the bloke credit for sorting out the shitshow he inherited and creating the morale that exists now but he will never win anything
Button.1 -
Not in the 3 we don't. We don't have any serious competition for Rice and it's either Phillips or Henderson or move Bellingham back, which would be a mistake, to fit a "10" in.MuttleyCAFC said:Offensively and in midfield we have genuine riches.
Full back and wide forwards we have an embarrassment of riches. Keeper, center half, center mid and even center foward we are a bit lacking in either quality or depth.4 - Sponsored links:
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You can only beat what’s in front of you and we did comfortably with a little wobble (cheers Ref)
This is a pony Italy who got beaten at home by North Macedonia to fail to make the World Cup last year .
We are a top top team who could win the Euros or World Cup but so far have fallen short but not by much .
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Stating the obvious but there are probably 4 or 5 other European countries that feel the same and 3 or 4, maybe all 5, won't win the euros. Add Brazil and Argentina on for a world cup and that's basically the quater finals.oohaahmortimer said:You can only beat what’s in front of you and we did comfortably with a little wobble (cheers Ref)
This is a pony Italy who got beaten at home by North Macedonia to fail to make the World Cup last year .
We are a top top team who could win the Euros or World Cup but so far have fallen short but not by much .
Not winning a tournament isn't a failer.0 -
We haven’t won a match in a major tourney for over 20 odd years when we weren’t favourites , we have lost a few when we were favourite to win them0
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I assume most of the team probably think Maguire should not be playing; may be allowing Phillips a bit more of a free.
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Would you say we were "really attacking" v France?Cafc43v3r said:
Apart from the France game where he went 433, we had over 50% of the possession and lost because we missed a penalty? Plus he made 3 or 4 attacking substitutions.North Lower Neil said:
Didn't we best Spain etc in that first Nations League? The one tome Southgate went really attacking for a week or so?ForeverAddickted said:First team we've beaten in the FIFA top 10 rankings under Southgate?
Or the world cup games we scored 6 in?
But that was the one week?
I am convinced a lot of people are so down on Southgate and most of them don't even know why. Not winning the world cup is hardly a reason.
That first Nations league we had two away games when we were really attacking and exciting, was the best I'd seen us play in years, and we beat teams in the top 10 in the rankings which I was saying a positive thing.0 -
When did we win a knock out game we weren't favourites for?oohaahmortimer said:We haven’t won a match in a major tourney for over 20 odd years when we weren’t favourites , we have lost a few when we were favourite to win them
Maybe Belgium or Cameroon in 90? Certainly not 88, 86, 82, 82, the 70s, 66 or 62.
The penalty shootout outs, the absolute freak goals, the stupid 82 format and us not turning up at all. Have contributed far more to us not winning anything than Southgate has.
With Southgate we have never won the lottery but we have bought 3, almost certainly 4, tickets. That's more than any other manager in most of life times.
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We 100% have to improve our knockout record. That’s an absolute given. However, knockout football rests on such small margins and there is no standout teams.4
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North Lower Neil said:
Would you say we were "really attacking" v France?Cafc43v3r said:
Apart from the France game where he went 433, we had over 50% of the possession and lost because we missed a penalty? Plus he made 3 or 4 attacking substitutions.North Lower Neil said:
Didn't we best Spain etc in that first Nations League? The one tome Southgate went really attacking for a week or so?ForeverAddickted said:First team we've beaten in the FIFA top 10 rankings under Southgate?
Or the world cup games we scored 6 in?
But that was the one week?
I am convinced a lot of people are so down on Southgate and most of them don't even know why. Not winning the world cup is hardly a reason.
That first Nations league we had two away games when we were really attacking and exciting, was the best I'd seen us play in years, and we beat teams in the top 10 in the rankings which I was saying a positive thing.
The 4 subs that came on were Grealish, Mount, Rashford and Sterling
I am not sure what else you expect the manager to do, other than score the Pen, so that's probably not a good idea.
The way that game went England win that 7/10 times.8 -
Just a thought on Harry Kane's penalty.
Given the circumstances and the significance of his last International penalty, to dispatch it with such aplomb and self-belief.
It seems easy to take it for granted after the event, but I don't think I would have trusted any other English striker in the same situation.
He really is something else6 -
If you are negatively minded you have a point. I think both Henderson and Rice are good enough not to need a Phillips. Eice first choice for me and if he is injured Henderson.Cafc43v3r said:
Not in the 3 we don't. We don't have any serious competition for Rice and it's either Phillips or Henderson or move Bellingham back, which would be a mistake, to fit a "10" in.MuttleyCAFC said:Offensively and in midfield we have genuine riches.
Full back and wide forwards we have an embarrassment of riches. Keeper, center half, center mid and even center foward we are a bit lacking in either quality or depth.0 - Sponsored links:
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We were favourites v Croatia and lost in the semiCafc43v3r said:
When did we win a knock out game we weren't favourites for?oohaahmortimer said:We haven’t won a match in a major tourney for over 20 odd years when we weren’t favourites , we have lost a few when we were favourite to win them
Maybe Belgium or Cameroon in 90? Certainly not 88, 86, 82, 82, the 70s, 66 or 62.
The penalty shootout outs, the absolute freak goals, the stupid 82 format and us not turning up at all. Have contributed far more to us not winning anything than Southgate has.
With Southgate we have never won the lottery but we have bought 3, almost certainly 4, tickets. That's more than any other manager in most of life times.
favourites against Italy in the final and lost albeit in a shootout but they were there for the taking
we done what we had to with more than favourable draws in both those competitions
France wasn’t a surprise and expected
we have had our chances but didn’t take them
Southgate has done well with a decent bunch and some favourable draws , no more than I’d have expected and yes we have failed miserably in the past , so kudos for Southgate for not falling in to that trap .
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Yeah so your playing Bellingham and Rice OR Henderson and who?MuttleyCAFC said:
If you are negatively minded you have a point. I think both Henderson and Rice are good enough not to need a Phillips. Eice first choice for me and if he is injured Henderson.Cafc43v3r said:
Not in the 3 we don't. We don't have any serious competition for Rice and it's either Phillips or Henderson or move Bellingham back, which would be a mistake, to fit a "10" in.MuttleyCAFC said:Offensively and in midfield we have genuine riches.
Full back and wide forwards we have an embarrassment of riches. Keeper, center half, center mid and even center foward we are a bit lacking in either quality or depth.0 -
The best five teams in world football currently are Argentina, France, Brazil, England and the Netherlands.
I’d say we’re in quite a good place.0 -
The thing I really like about this generation (and this photo epitomises it for me) is that they genuinely seem to enjoy playing for England and all like each other. Southgate has to take some credit for fostering that.
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We are in a good place and the players are maturing all the time.Callumcafc said:The best five teams in world football currently are Argentina, France, Brazil, England and the Netherlands.
I’d say we’re in quite a good place.
It will be a crying shame if this group and Gareth don't win a tournament, but sometimes you need a bit of luck to pull off the main prize (eg the Dutch of 74/78).
At least watching England is fun again.
I don't ever remember us dominating an Italian team like we did in that first half in all my 70 odd years.
Have that!4 -
A mentality 100% created by Southgate. The FA put a lot of effort into St George’s Park and it’s been a total success. When you look at the players in the U21 this isn’t just a generation, it’s a conveyor belt of talent.The_Organiser said:The thing I really like about this generation (and this photo epitomises it for me) is that they genuinely seem to enjoy playing for England and all like each other. Southgate has to take some credit for fostering that.13 -
Personally, I'd play Grealish there. He puts in a shift and wins lots of fouls. Then you can fit in Rashford or Foden.Cafc43v3r said:
Yeah so your playing Bellingham and Rice OR Henderson and who?MuttleyCAFC said:
If you are negatively minded you have a point. I think both Henderson and Rice are good enough not to need a Phillips. Eice first choice for me and if he is injured Henderson.Cafc43v3r said:
Not in the 3 we don't. We don't have any serious competition for Rice and it's either Phillips or Henderson or move Bellingham back, which would be a mistake, to fit a "10" in.MuttleyCAFC said:Offensively and in midfield we have genuine riches.
Full back and wide forwards we have an embarrassment of riches. Keeper, center half, center mid and even center foward we are a bit lacking in either quality or depth.1 -
When has Grealish played centre mid at any level?MuttleyCAFC said:
Personally, I'd play Grealish there. He puts in a shift and wins lots of fouls. Then you can fit in Rashford or Foden.Cafc43v3r said:
Yeah so your playing Bellingham and Rice OR Henderson and who?MuttleyCAFC said:
If you are negatively minded you have a point. I think both Henderson and Rice are good enough not to need a Phillips. Eice first choice for me and if he is injured Henderson.Cafc43v3r said:
Not in the 3 we don't. We don't have any serious competition for Rice and it's either Phillips or Henderson or move Bellingham back, which would be a mistake, to fit a "10" in.MuttleyCAFC said:Offensively and in midfield we have genuine riches.
Full back and wide forwards we have an embarrassment of riches. Keeper, center half, center mid and even center foward we are a bit lacking in either quality or depth.3 -
Personally, I think we’re blessed with a really good group of players. Look how England performed in the younger age groups over the past few years as a lot of these players were coming through. You could see the quality just oozing through.Today was very similar to the Euro final a couple of years ago. Strolling it at HT and struggling in the 2nd. In both cases we played differently in the 2nd half. More negative. More cautious. Does this come from the Management or players? I would say the Management.I would hate to lose this opportunity of, possibly, being the best in the World for a while. I do believe we have the players. I’m not sure if we have the coach.2
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We just beat the current European champions away from home, where they very very rarely get turned over.
We did it with 10 men, and limited them to 1 shot on target.
What do people want ffs?15
