Post-Match Thread: CHARLTON ATHLETIC v CHELTENHAM TOWN / FRIDAY 2nd DECEMBER 2022 7.45pm KO

wmcf123 said:

soapboxsam said:

Having injuries to key players affected Bowyer, Adkins, Jackson and now Garner.
Not having certain positions covered for two years is ridiculous. Left back to name just one !

Ben Garner is trying to get Chas and Dave to perform classical music at the Albert hall when maybe a good old knees up at Albert Square would be more fitting for this Charlton squad bereft of quality and numbers in so many positions.

No I don't mean Hoof effing ball but quality diagonal balls with an ability to increase the tempo. Mix and bloody match.

Who of the injured players would definitely have played last night ? 

CBT (I assume he was ?) and Leaburn would have made a hell of a difference.
Considering I'm a veteran of 1200 plus Cafc game live until the last season when I just saw 9 games at the valley winning 7 under JJ and had enough chances to win all 9.  I never thought we would start a game without one striker ! Play Kanu and Casey who at least will take up better positions in the box as they have been doing that since they were 6 years old.

swordfish said:

We'll not get out of this league playing tippy tappy with average players. Whatever the plan was, rip it up and start again. Time to bring in some big units and play hoofball.

Sort of agree with this. With a Warnock type as manager, I reckon Stockley would get 15-20 goals in a season and quite a few individuals would be quickly jogged on. These players need a few rockets and job simplification, not cotton wool and a coaching exam every time they go on the pitch. 

All moot though. TS ain't got the money for either a Warnock or an overhaul and a Warnock wouldn't touch us with a barge-pole. 

Karim_myBagheri said:

oohaahmortimer said:

We was robbed by the officials again 

erm err no

Kirk is a bloody fool there. I know he had to check back at least once but even so he should of stayed onside. 

Isnt surprising though, Kirk and nearly all our other wingers dont see it as a good game if they're not offside half a dozen times each week - Frustrating as thats been the case all season, and none of them have learnt

Oggy Red said:

Mr_invisible said:

I’m not sure how some people can say  Garner is a good manager and with right backing would do well. On what evidence? 

no doubt he was stitched up by the chairman with thin squad but I’m sorry we should be preforming a lot better than this . I can’t even listen to his post match interviews anymore. Repetitive cringe. 

He has to go imo. 

Garner evidently has a vision of how he wants his teams to play.
But that in itself doesn't make a good manager.

At this level, most clubs' squads are lacking in a couple of positions and of course, a run of injuries will decimate any team.

A good manager, however, will adapt his resources, formation and gameplan ..... we've rarely seen that with Garner though, generally persisting with his system even though he doesn't have sufficient specialist players to do the job.

First definition of madness: doing the same thing over and over again - yet expecting a different outcome.

It's a results business. A good manager sets up to get the results, however the style of football he wishes to play.
For example, look how Chris Powell set up to win the division title, by first making us difficult to beat. 
Imagine a Curbishley type manager coming in, he'd set up straight away for the result first, jam and cream later.

Crikey, even Neil bloody Warnock would come in, grab the dressing room by the throat, and turn things round.

Come on, Ben Garner, for now put your Man City type vision of football on ice.
This is the Third Division, the reality.

You've only got the players you've got.
Get back to basics and just win games.

While I agree with much of this, I don’t think we’ve got the players to play a more physical game. In fact, I’m pretty sure we haven’t.

I feel I've just about recovered from another cold and miserable night down at The Valley. The squad is threadbare at the moment but I really don't know why Garner felt the need to drop AMB, switch to a new formation with 3 central defenders and play two non-strikers up top. Whatever his rationale was, it didn't work and his assertion that some of our play was brilliant is utterly delusional. He really doesn't help himself with some of his post-match comments and to suggest that we played well is an insult to us as supporters.

It was a minor miracle that we were level at half time after Inniss' two madcap minutes, although, sadly, we've become accustomed to such inept defending this season. The only mitigation for Ryan is that he's been asked to play out from the back, which he (and most of our players) are patently unable to do effectively. What we'd give for a younger Jason Pearce - although Garner would doubtless disapprove, what we need now is some no nonsense, old-school defending, with good man-to-man marking at set plays, skilled use of the dark arts and some proper leadership at the back.

We had a strong spell for the first 25 minutes of the second half but the game then entered a lull. My concern then was that Cheltenham might nick a goal late on, despite the fact that they'd abandoned all attacking pretensions, were playing only one man up top and getting everyone else behind the ball. Neither side created any clear chances and the game had 0-0 written all over it until MacGillivray's intervention near the end.

If things don't improve fast, I think that Garner will be receiving his P45 in fairly short order.

The tippy tappy bollocks is suicidal with the sort of senior experienced donkeys we've got at the back
But a straight swap for hoofball is just as daft - we ain't got fit decent strikers either
The answer, plain to all with open eyes and minds, was attempted by the likes of Clare and Sessegnon on Friday night.
They tried more direct football by the wildly revolutionary tactic of running with the ball FFS - and stand by your beds it even worked some of the time!!  Just as if there's a couple of players out there who know their onions!  Unshackled by Garner's inadequacy the squad's not hopeless.
Longer passing and direct football doesn't have to be lumping it straight to a lump.  Longer diagonal passes to wider players give the donkey defenders far bigger margin for error and crucially keep the ball away from our suicide zone.
Garner's ego or idiocy (amounts to the same thing) prevents any such radical thinking tho.
Garner's lumbered with an inadequate, fragile squad and a stubborn lack of vision or pragmatism.  I couldn't give a damn that he's undermining his own career I resent him using Charlton to do it.
Every time he's opened his gob in the last month he's doubled down on what a clown he really is.  That guff about Lavelle a case in point.
He's not even delivering Skintgaard's "high press attacking football" bollocks he's just pratting about achieving precisely naff all.
We've the 2nd worst form in the division, this is not the time for fannying about and giving the halfwit any more time.
There are successful intelligent coaches and managers working for Skintgaard, just look at the Women's team.

swordfish said:

My post about hoofball wasn't based on any sound understanding of the game tbh. Perhaps I should take over the Club 🤣 To me, it always looks as though modern coaches seem to over complicate a simple game.

You're not wrong....they do. 

You can't really flounce in, only out. Returning, eventually, usually involves creeping or sneaking.