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Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)

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Comments

  • benjest1989
    benjest1989 Posts: 390
    I understand that Sandgaard sacked long standing employees for 'cost cutting' reasons. But why did he also ban these people from watching games? 
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,447
    Made me think of TS.
  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,499
    Airman Brown said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him. 

    Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested. 
    Until and unless he is willing to get out of the way we won’t find out whether that is a possibility.
     You make it sound like Sandgaard is the main stumbling block here?
    If he's a stumbling block then surely Duchatelet is a huge f**k off brick wall?
    When did he become someone that just needs his tummy tickled all of a sudden??
  • The Red Robin
    The Red Robin Posts: 26,150
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    valleynick66 said:
    Airman Brown said:
    LonelyNorthernAddick said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him. 

    Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested. 
    Until and unless he is willing to get out of the way we won’t find out whether that is a possibility.
    In your opinion, if someone came to TS and offered him a sum he deemed a reasonable amount to buy the club, do you think TS would genuinely entertain it? Or is he too committed/invested in being the power that be in SE7? 
    I don't know what he would deem a reasonable amount and I doubt his opening position is where he would end up, but he's going to have to come to terms with the fact that this is only going to end one way, which I'm sure is difficult for him. 
    How does this align with your previous observation there are potential bidders in the background?

    There is always a 'price' but surely that's only identified when parties start talking to each other. Are there 'talks' however tentative / high level?
    There is interest, but these things are always a dance. 
    Problem with our waltz is that there are three people in it. Sandgaard, Duchatelet and buyer. 
    And what are they actually getting for their money from Sandgaard?
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,061
    benjest1989 said:
    I understand that Sandgaard sacked long standing employees for 'cost cutting' reasons. But why did he also ban these people from watching games? 
    Dan Burke I think got a job with a club sponsor who work / were working at The Valley and Charlton presumably didn't want him continuing to work at The Valley.
    I don't believe he's banned from attending as a fan. 
  • thenewbie
    thenewbie Posts: 11,018
    carly burn said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him. 

    Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested. 
    Until and unless he is willing to get out of the way we won’t find out whether that is a possibility.
     You make it sound like Sandgaard is the main stumbling block here?
    If he's a stumbling block then surely Duchatelet is a huge f**k off brick wall?
    When did he become someone that just needs his tummy tickled all of a sudden??
    Because until someone can deal with Sandgaard Duchatalet isn't part of the equation. You have to get some sort of agreement with TS before Roly's demands even become relevant.
  • StrikerFirmani
    StrikerFirmani Posts: 2,745
    The Red Robin said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    valleynick66 said:
    Airman Brown said:
    LonelyNorthernAddick said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him. 

    Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested. 
    Until and unless he is willing to get out of the way we won’t find out whether that is a possibility.
    In your opinion, if someone came to TS and offered him a sum he deemed a reasonable amount to buy the club, do you think TS would genuinely entertain it? Or is he too committed/invested in being the power that be in SE7? 
    I don't know what he would deem a reasonable amount and I doubt his opening position is where he would end up, but he's going to have to come to terms with the fact that this is only going to end one way, which I'm sure is difficult for him. 
    How does this align with your previous observation there are potential bidders in the background?

    There is always a 'price' but surely that's only identified when parties start talking to each other. Are there 'talks' however tentative / high level?
    There is interest, but these things are always a dance. 
    Problem with our waltz is that there are three people in it. Sandgaard, Duchatelet and buyer. 
    And what are they actually getting for their money from Sandgaard?
    FL membership, playing squad (put your own value on that if any) a lease agreement for The Valley & SL and the cherry on top is a massive big debt. 
  • T_C_E
    T_C_E Posts: 16,424
    "Not welcome in any capacity" was the phrase Dan used I believe, I know of at least two others that have said it privately and I'd guess Nathan and myself would probably fall into that category too.
    Although banning myself out of respect to Mick E was probably a wise move.  :D  
  • Dave2l
    Dave2l Posts: 8,880
    He should write a song titled: "Bullshit,  banned and fired"

    Chorus: 

    Saving money and telling lies with

    Considerate respect, I despise 

    Get out of my club and you are now banned 

    This Danish waffle and or no Charlton fan!

    ...

    Outro solo 

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  • Hornchurch
    Hornchurch Posts: 902
    StrikerFirmani said:
    The Red Robin said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    valleynick66 said:
    Airman Brown said:
    LonelyNorthernAddick said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him. 

    Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested. 
    Until and unless he is willing to get out of the way we won’t find out whether that is a possibility.
    In your opinion, if someone came to TS and offered him a sum he deemed a reasonable amount to buy the club, do you think TS would genuinely entertain it? Or is he too committed/invested in being the power that be in SE7? 
    I don't know what he would deem a reasonable amount and I doubt his opening position is where he would end up, but he's going to have to come to terms with the fact that this is only going to end one way, which I'm sure is difficult for him. 
    How does this align with your previous observation there are potential bidders in the background?

    There is always a 'price' but surely that's only identified when parties start talking to each other. Are there 'talks' however tentative / high level?
    There is interest, but these things are always a dance. 
    Problem with our waltz is that there are three people in it. Sandgaard, Duchatelet and buyer. 
    And what are they actually getting for their money from Sandgaard?
    FL membership, playing squad (put your own value on that if any) a lease agreement for The Valley & SL and the cherry on top is a massive big debt. 
    And an academy with a proven track record of producing sellable assets, on a regular basis. Which makes it all the more mystifying that he has cut their funding.
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,658
    The Red Robin said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    valleynick66 said:
    Airman Brown said:
    LonelyNorthernAddick said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him. 

    Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested. 
    Until and unless he is willing to get out of the way we won’t find out whether that is a possibility.
    In your opinion, if someone came to TS and offered him a sum he deemed a reasonable amount to buy the club, do you think TS would genuinely entertain it? Or is he too committed/invested in being the power that be in SE7? 
    I don't know what he would deem a reasonable amount and I doubt his opening position is where he would end up, but he's going to have to come to terms with the fact that this is only going to end one way, which I'm sure is difficult for him. 
    How does this align with your previous observation there are potential bidders in the background?

    There is always a 'price' but surely that's only identified when parties start talking to each other. Are there 'talks' however tentative / high level?
    There is interest, but these things are always a dance. 
    Problem with our waltz is that there are three people in it. Sandgaard, Duchatelet and buyer. 
    And what are they actually getting for their money from Sandgaard?
    A money pit and average third teir players. Virtually nothing to be honest apart from the lottery ticket of success.
  • The Red Robin
    The Red Robin Posts: 26,150
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    The Red Robin said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    valleynick66 said:
    Airman Brown said:
    LonelyNorthernAddick said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him. 

    Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested. 
    Until and unless he is willing to get out of the way we won’t find out whether that is a possibility.
    In your opinion, if someone came to TS and offered him a sum he deemed a reasonable amount to buy the club, do you think TS would genuinely entertain it? Or is he too committed/invested in being the power that be in SE7? 
    I don't know what he would deem a reasonable amount and I doubt his opening position is where he would end up, but he's going to have to come to terms with the fact that this is only going to end one way, which I'm sure is difficult for him. 
    How does this align with your previous observation there are potential bidders in the background?

    There is always a 'price' but surely that's only identified when parties start talking to each other. Are there 'talks' however tentative / high level?
    There is interest, but these things are always a dance. 
    Problem with our waltz is that there are three people in it. Sandgaard, Duchatelet and buyer. 
    And what are they actually getting for their money from Sandgaard?
    A money pit and average third teir players. Virtually nothing to be honest apart from the lottery ticket of success.
    Yep. I suppose the academy like @Hornchurch says too. Duchatelet is the one any buyer really needs to engage with. 
  • Kap10
    Kap10 Posts: 15,592
    .
  • SoundAsa£
    SoundAsa£ Posts: 22,502
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    God this is a depressing thread. What is it with our effing club that we just keep attracting spivs, crooks, nutters and egomaniacs for owners. Next time lucky ?
    Life is like a chicken coop ladder.
    Short and full of shit.
  • rananegra
    rananegra Posts: 3,695
    Eventually these issues will attract media attention outside of the Charlton-focused local stuff. 
  • SomervilleAddick
    SomervilleAddick Posts: 3,581
    thenewbie said:
    carly burn said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him. 

    Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested. 
    Until and unless he is willing to get out of the way we won’t find out whether that is a possibility.
     You make it sound like Sandgaard is the main stumbling block here?
    If he's a stumbling block then surely Duchatelet is a huge f**k off brick wall?
    When did he become someone that just needs his tummy tickled all of a sudden??
    Because until someone can deal with Sandgaard Duchatalet isn't part of the equation. You have to get some sort of agreement with TS before Roly's demands even become relevant.
    Not necessarily - why not buy the physical assets first? It might even be easier to deal with Roland if you don’t own the club. 
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,753
    edited November 2022
    SomervilleAddick said:
    thenewbie said:
    carly burn said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him. 

    Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested. 
    Until and unless he is willing to get out of the way we won’t find out whether that is a possibility.
     You make it sound like Sandgaard is the main stumbling block here?
    If he's a stumbling block then surely Duchatelet is a huge f**k off brick wall?
    When did he become someone that just needs his tummy tickled all of a sudden??
    Because until someone can deal with Sandgaard Duchatalet isn't part of the equation. You have to get some sort of agreement with TS before Roly's demands even become relevant.
    Not necessarily - why not buy the physical assets first? It might even be easier to deal with Roland if you don’t own the club. 
    The problem is that unless you make one conditional on the other you are always putting one selling party or the other in a stronger bargaining position. It makes no sense to pay for the ground without securing the football club, which TS can then try to ransom, or vice versa. 

    This is also why TS's original deal was one no serious bidder would entertain.

    The caveat is that TS is more likely to run out of road, as unlike RD he is facing repeated losses.
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,753
    edited November 2022

    The following is from Saturday's Guardian writing about Coventry City. It's not precisely applicable to Charlton, but the overall message is.

    For Dr Dan Plomley, a specialist in sports finance at Sheffield Hallam University, owning your own ground is crucial for professional sports clubs, especially those outside the Premier League. “The ground is the main asset a club uses to generate money,” he says. “Clubs don’t have a lot of physical assets: it’s pretty much training ground and stadium for the most part. So for a club to be in control of that is always the number one thing. Coventry City have been playing second fiddle [to] Wasps since they took it over in 2014. The minute you become a tenant in your own home it’s a problem.”

    Perhaps the one thing worse than being a tenant in your own home is not having a home at all. Wasps’ owners uprooted a club that had a century-long history in London, taking them first to High Wycombe before landing in Coventry where the team, in their latter years especially, have played fixtures to banks of empty sky blue seats. Meanwhile, over the period of Sisu’s ownership, Coventry City have endured two periods of exile, first in Northampton, then in Birmingham. A return to the CBS Arena, under whatever terms, was celebrated by fans.

    The full article is here: 

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/oct/28/coventry-city-wasps-cbs-arena


  • cabbles
    cabbles Posts: 15,261
    rananegra said:
    Eventually these issues will attract media attention outside of the Charlton-focused local stuff. 
    I don’t think it will.  I think that unless TS pulls his cash (he may well do), the working conditions for the non playing staff aren’t that hot a topic for anyone outside of here and those affected, aside from a bit of local coverage.  I’m not dismissing the stress and experiences those affected have gone through, more highlighting that unless we run into the sorts of issues Wigan are going through re: players being paid late, who cares? 

    Again, that’s not to sound harsh to those impacted, but we’re so far off being a story on any other level than the SLP at the moment.  Maybe TalkSPORT and Jim White might circle if he thinks TS is showing signs of poor ownership, but I think outside of the however many on here that discuss this thread, I reckon the interest among our own fans is pretty non existent 

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  • BDL
    BDL Posts: 6,001
    AFKABartram said:
    Airman Brown said:
    valleynick66 said:
    Airman Brown said:
    LonelyNorthernAddick said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him. 

    Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested. 
    Until and unless he is willing to get out of the way we won’t find out whether that is a possibility.
    In your opinion, if someone came to TS and offered him a sum he deemed a reasonable amount to buy the club, do you think TS would genuinely entertain it? Or is he too committed/invested in being the power that be in SE7? 
    I don't know what he would deem a reasonable amount and I doubt his opening position is where he would end up, but he's going to have to come to terms with the fact that this is only going to end one way, which I'm sure is difficult for him. 
    How does this align with your previous observation there are potential bidders in the background?

    There is always a 'price' but surely that's only identified when parties start talking to each other. Are there 'talks' however tentative / high level?
    There is interest, but these things are always a dance. 
    Blimey, that Nicko from the Sun has taken over Airman’s account
    Bloody hope not, he blocked me on Twitter 😁😁
  • CAFCTrev
    CAFCTrev Posts: 6,005
    edited November 2022
    cabbles said:
    rananegra said:
    Eventually these issues will attract media attention outside of the Charlton-focused local stuff. 
    I don’t think it will.  I think that unless TS pulls his cash (he may well do), the working conditions for the non playing staff aren’t that hot a topic for anyone outside of here and those affected, aside from a bit of local coverage.  I’m not dismissing the stress and experiences those affected have gone through, more highlighting that unless we run into the sorts of issues Wigan are going through re: players being paid late, who cares? 

    Again, that’s not to sound harsh to those impacted, but we’re so far off being a story on any other level than the SLP at the moment.  Maybe TalkSPORT and Jim White might circle if he thinks TS is showing signs of poor ownership, but I think outside of the however many on here that discuss this thread, I reckon the interest among our own fans is pretty non existent 
    Exactly, and its easy to fall into the trap of assuming that your average Charlton fan is as engaged with the inner runnings of the club as we are in the CharltonLife bubble. You're average Charlton fan just gets his or her Charlton news from the local paper, the matchday programme and the OWS. They probably couldn't name anyone working at the club outside of the 1st team manager and assistant. 
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,753
    CAFCTrev said:
    cabbles said:
    rananegra said:
    Eventually these issues will attract media attention outside of the Charlton-focused local stuff. 
    I don’t think it will.  I think that unless TS pulls his cash (he may well do), the working conditions for the non playing staff aren’t that hot a topic for anyone outside of here and those affected, aside from a bit of local coverage.  I’m not dismissing the stress and experiences those affected have gone through, more highlighting that unless we run into the sorts of issues Wigan are going through re: players being paid late, who cares? 

    Again, that’s not to sound harsh to those impacted, but we’re so far off being a story on any other level than the SLP at the moment.  Maybe TalkSPORT and Jim White might circle if he thinks TS is showing signs of poor ownership, but I think outside of the however many on here that discuss this thread, I reckon the interest among our own fans is pretty non existent 
    Exactly, and its easy to fall into the trap of assuming that your average Charlton is as engaged with the inner runnings of the club as we are in the CharltonLife bubble. You're average Charlton fan just gets his or her Charlton news from the local paper, the matchday programme and the OWS. They probably couldn't name anyone working at the club outside of the 1st team manager and assistant. 
    I suspect more people could name Tracey Leaburn and Mick Everett than the assistant manager, although some might be under the misapprehension that Mick has left!




  • SomervilleAddick
    SomervilleAddick Posts: 3,581
    Airman Brown said:r
    SomervilleAddick said:
    thenewbie said:
    carly burn said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him. 

    Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested. 
    Until and unless he is willing to get out of the way we won’t find out whether that is a possibility.
     You make it sound like Sandgaard is the main stumbling block here?
    If he's a stumbling block then surely Duchatelet is a huge f**k off brick wall?
    When did he become someone that just needs his tummy tickled all of a sudden??
    Because until someone can deal with Sandgaard Duchatalet isn't part of the equation. You have to get some sort of agreement with TS before Roly's demands even become relevant.
    Not necessarily - why not buy the physical assets first? It might even be easier to deal with Roland if you don’t own the club. 
    The problem is that unless you make one conditional on the other you are always putting one selling party or the other in a stronger bargaining position. It makes no sense to pay for the ground without securing the football club, which TS can then try to ransom, or vice versa. 

    This is also why TS's original deal was one no serious bidder would entertain.

    The caveat is that TS is more likely to run out of road, as unlike RD he is facing repeated losses.
    I don’t disagree entirely, but if what we’re seeing is related to cash flow, Sandgards leverage dwindles as his cash dries up. Roland’s leverage on the club owner is a constant, unless the buyer is willing to move the club. 
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,195
    SoundAsa£ said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    God this is a depressing thread. What is it with our effing club that we just keep attracting spivs, crooks, nutters and egomaniacs for owners. Next time lucky ?
    Life is like a chicken coop ladder.
    Short and full of shit.
    A bit like you mate :p
  • Bailey
    Bailey Posts: 3,280
    I think it's a waiting game with Sandgaard. There is probably still part of him that thinks this might work out, but he probably knows that's a long shot. His comment about cost reductions would not bring a break-even situation on its own was interesting, then how does he think he'll reach cost neutral then or has he now woken up to the fact that he has come out with another dopey statement to add to his list of dopey statements.
  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 5,926
    Bailey said:
    I think it's a waiting game with Sandgaard. There is probably still part of him that thinks this might work out, but he probably knows that's a long shot. His comment about cost reductions would not bring a break-even situation on its own was interesting, then how does he think he'll reach cost neutral then or has he now woken up to the fact that he has come out with another dopey statement to add to his list of dopey statements.
    I think that means selling players at a profit in order to break even, that's the only option available to him isnt it. I suspect we might see some outgoing in January. For example what did Dobson cost us ? I'm certain he is pretty sure to have interested parties in January, CBT ? Some of our youngsters? I think TS is starting to think he can pick up free agents and put them in the shop window. 
  • swordfish
    swordfish Posts: 4,236
    Bailey said:
    I think it's a waiting game with Sandgaard. There is probably still part of him that thinks this might work out, but he probably knows that's a long shot. His comment about cost reductions would not bring a break-even situation on its own was interesting, then how does he think he'll reach cost neutral then or has he now woken up to the fact that he has come out with another dopey statement to add to his list of dopey statements.
    With increased revenue from hospitality, ticket sales and sponsorship is what I read in the CAST article, but assuming he's estimated how much he expects to generate from each source, well that isn't stated.
  • valleynick66
    valleynick66 Posts: 4,902
    edited November 2022
    If there is a serious bidder waiting in the wings a deal can always  be done. 

    TS needs an out with a little dignity,  ie make good some of his losses and he can say ‘passing the reigns on to those with deep pockets’ etc.

    RD can negotiate with whoever and again if the price is right will sell - as each month passes the numbers for him potentially change as his age becomes more of a factor. He no longer has the challenge of passing the loss making football club on to someone. 
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,658
    valleynick66 said:
    If there is a serious bidder waiting in the wings a deal can always  be done. 

    TS needs an out with a little dignity,  ie make good some of his losses and he can say ‘passing the reigns on to those with deep pockets’ etc.

    RD can negotiate with whoever and again if the price is right will sell - as each month passes the numbers for him potentially change as his age becomes more of a factor. He no longer has the challenge of passing the loss making football club on to someone. 
    I don’t buy into Duchatelets age being a factor. He has more money than he could ever need and what he owns in terms of The Valley and Sparrows is money in the bank anyway. He’ll pass on his wealth regardless, whether that’s money, business or real estate is probably immaterial to him. 

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