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The English football cup comps are a blight on the game - here's an idea for reform
Comments
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To be clear I am not suggesting for one minute that we “align” with any European country. I thought, and it looks wrongly, that our League Cup - Europa place is an extra place, granted because it was a precedent establised way back - possibly the Fairs Cup but again I havent checked. If we would still have the same total number of places, without the League Cup then fair enough, but I have read rumblings about it.@Stig point is reasonable although someone could verify whether it works out in practice that more L1 etc teams reach the last 16 here than in Germany. But the point would still stand that the German way creates more really attractive home ties for more lower league clubs. And these are the games that we remember even though we soon learnt that Charlton will never make it beyond the 5th round ( until SCP came along anyway)
@Lewis Coaches funny you mention Sheff Utd because they were the first Div 1 opponents I saw at the Valley. But it was the FA Cup. Around 67. I think, we were shite and lost 1-0 but the crowd -26k - was the biggeat I had been in. Almost certainly biggest of the season. I dont remember Sheff U in the League Cup at all. There was no romance about the League Cup. The FA cup final was a must watch TV event for half the nation. The League Cup? Dont remember any coverage at all until the Sky era.
I’m surprised how much support there seems to be for the League Cup’s existence . I do wonder though how solid it is in practice. Suppose we had drawn, say, Everton at home. Gate? I reckon no more than 15k inc 2k Everton…0 -
The League Cup Final was shown live on terrestrial television from 1984 to 1996. It only went Sky from 1997 and in some years since had been back on terrestrial televisionPragueAddick said:To be clear I am not suggesting for one minute that we “align” with any European country. I thought, and it looks wrongly, that our League Cup - Europa place is an extra place, granted because it was a precedent establised way back - possibly the Fairs Cup but again I havent checked. If we would still have the same total number of places, without the League Cup then fair enough, but I have read rumblings about it.@Stig point is reasonable although someone could verify whether it works out in practice that more L1 etc teams reach the last 16 here than in Germany. But the point would still stand that the German way creates more really attractive home ties for more lower league clubs. And these are the games that we remember even though we soon learnt that Charlton will never make it beyond the 5th round ( until SCP came along anyway)
@Lewis Coaches funny you mention Sheff Utd because they were the first Div 1 opponents I saw at the Valley. But it was the FA Cup. Around 67. I think, we were shite and lost 1-0 but the crowd -26k - was the biggeat I had been in. Almost certainly biggest of the season. I dont remember Sheff U in the League Cup at all. There was no romance about the League Cup. The FA cup final was a must watch TV event for half the nation. The League Cup? Dont remember any coverage at all until the Sky era.
I’m surprised how much support there seems to be for the League Cup’s existence . I do wonder though how solid it is in practice. Suppose we had drawn, say, Everton at home. Gate? I reckon no more than 15k inc 2k Everton…1 -
https://www.uefa.com/nationalassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2022
We get 7 European places, the same as Spain, Germany and Italy because we top the coefficient.0 -
Forgot Wimbledon at selhurst and zThe Valley Bowyer played sure he scored .JohnnyH2 said:
The 2 legs against Wimbledon in 95/96PragueAddick said:
Nice one. But here's the thing. I'm an old git with many memories, and an awful lot of them are FA Cup memories. Selhurst 68, (had flu so I missed Highbury in the next round). Being one of the 5,000 that went to Ipswich when Paul Walsh was emerging. 3-0 at Portsmouth when i was a student there. Spurs away, and the replay.ForeverAddickted said:
For starters... The League Cup is three years older than the Bundesliga.se9addick said:Why do we need the rest of European football to agree with how we run our cup competitions?!
I haven't got a League Cup memory. Not a single one. How about you?
The game against Liverpool at The Valley 96/97
The win at Chelsea in 05/061 -
Tremendous LC match 7 Sep 71 CAFC 3-1 Leicester City
Leicester were a force to be reckoned with in those distant days. Charlton, on the other hand, went down at the end of season 71/72. On this night, though, we played superbly, with KP scoring our last two goals. A truly wonderful game!!0 -
Now I am either cracking up or that 3 games with Sheffield Utd in league cup we loss the toss for the 3rd game. Finally went out in the 120 minute of 3rd game.PragueAddick said:To be clear I am not suggesting for one minute that we “align” with any European country. I thought, and it looks wrongly, that our League Cup - Europa place is an extra place, granted because it was a precedent establised way back - possibly the Fairs Cup but again I havent checked. If we would still have the same total number of places, without the League Cup then fair enough, but I have read rumblings about it.@Stig point is reasonable although someone could verify whether it works out in practice that more L1 etc teams reach the last 16 here than in Germany. But the point would still stand that the German way creates more really attractive home ties for more lower league clubs. And these are the games that we remember even though we soon learnt that Charlton will never make it beyond the 5th round ( until SCP came along anyway)
@Lewis Coaches funny you mention Sheff Utd because they were the first Div 1 opponents I saw at the Valley. But it was the FA Cup. Around 67. I think, we were shite and lost 1-0 but the crowd -26k - was the biggeat I had been in. Almost certainly biggest of the season. I dont remember Sheff U in the League Cup at all. There was no romance about the League Cup. The FA cup final was a must watch TV event for half the nation. The League Cup? Dont remember any coverage at all until the Sky era.
I’m surprised how much support there seems to be for the League Cup’s existence . I do wonder though how solid it is in practice. Suppose we had drawn, say, Everton at home. Gate? I reckon no more than 15k inc 2k Everton…
As for Sheffield game you mentioned Mick Jones scored penalty in front of the covered end that afternoon Jan 67.
Afew months before my first game but sitting next to a Charlton but at school I remember it well.0 -
Nut at school0
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Bowyer scored a hat trick at SelhurstLewis Coaches said:
Forgot Wimbledon at selhurst and zThe Valley Bowyer played sure he scored .JohnnyH2 said:
The 2 legs against Wimbledon in 95/96PragueAddick said:
Nice one. But here's the thing. I'm an old git with many memories, and an awful lot of them are FA Cup memories. Selhurst 68, (had flu so I missed Highbury in the next round). Being one of the 5,000 that went to Ipswich when Paul Walsh was emerging. 3-0 at Portsmouth when i was a student there. Spurs away, and the replay.ForeverAddickted said:
For starters... The League Cup is three years older than the Bundesliga.se9addick said:Why do we need the rest of European football to agree with how we run our cup competitions?!
I haven't got a League Cup memory. Not a single one. How about you?
The game against Liverpool at The Valley 96/97
The win at Chelsea in 05/060 -
QPR H in the mid 70's 0-3 in front of 30,000 when they were arguably the best team in the country.
I can still "see" Dave Thomas ripping us apart down the left wing.
W Ham H in the 70's in front of a large crowd?
Colchester H early 70's, had to leave Margate earlyish to get back in time.
Middelsborough A - operation Riverside.
Wycombe H - never been so angry with the Charlton players.0 -
So mad and radical that I like it, lol.BowSelecta said:I’d scrap the JPT and make the League Cup just the Football League (no PL teams). Winner of the League Cup gets promoted to premier league
We could just skip past the Championship with a few lucky cup draws. The League Cup would become a massive competition.0 - Sponsored links:
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Wasn't operation Riverside FA Cup?Covered End said:QPR H in the mid 70's 0-3 in front of 30,000 when they were arguably the best team in the country.
I can still "see" Dave Thomas ripping us apart down the left wing.
W Ham H in the 70's in front of a large crowd?
Colchester H early 70's, had to leave Margate earlyish to get back in time.
Middelsborough A - operation Riverside.
Wycombe H - never been so angry with the Charlton players.3 -
The league cup should be scrapped, no one cares about it. The lower half PL clubs rest players for the league games as staying in the league is more important and even the big PL clubs don't care unless they get to the semi's.
If the FA cup was the only cup then you'd probably find a few more clubs taking it more seriously. I like the idea of having the draw so that the sides who get through to round 3 get a home draw against a side from the PL. Pretty sure this is how it works in the Spanish cup.
Papa Johns trophy, i actually don't see an issue with having a cup for leagues 1 & 2, but i'd chuck all the premier league U21 sides out, replace them with the top 16 sides from the National league to get to 64 clubs, do away with the group stage and make it a straight knock out cup.1 -
Yes...and that was shit too.Croydon said:
Wasn't operation Riverside FA Cup?Covered End said:QPR H in the mid 70's 0-3 in front of 30,000 when they were arguably the best team in the country.
I can still "see" Dave Thomas ripping us apart down the left wing.
W Ham H in the 70's in front of a large crowd?
Colchester H early 70's, had to leave Margate earlyish to get back in time.
Middelsborough A - operation Riverside.
Wycombe H - never been so angry with the Charlton players.0 -
I think the simplest option is usually the best. Make the FA Cup a free for all, 1st round everyone's in the draw, why do the better teams get to enter last? FC Dog and Duck have to play about 6 games before Man City even have to think about the cup.
In France the Cup sometimes throws up mental games, like a team from Réunion Island flying 11 hours for a cup game on mainland France, that's magic we need, Chelsea having to show up on a pitch in Cornwall to play an 11th tier team etc.
And make it mean something, fuck off the semi finals being at Wembley, that devalues getting to Wembley in the final.
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I think these ideas make good sense. I do wonder whether the reason the league cup is so unappealing to us is our lack of success in it though. If we were to go and win it 🤣, we might feel differently, but it leaves me cold I'm afraid, thinking "Oh no, not that again. I hope we don't pick up any injuries" every time we have to play in it.Chris_from_Sidcup said:The league cup should be scrapped, no one cares about it. The lower half PL clubs rest players for the league games as staying in the league is more important and even the big PL clubs don't care unless they get to the semi's.
If the FA cup was the only cup then you'd probably find a few more clubs taking it more seriously. I like the idea of having the draw so that the sides who get through to round 3 get a home draw against a side from the PL. Pretty sure this is how it works in the Spanish cup.
Papa Johns trophy, i actually don't see an issue with having a cup for leagues 1 & 2, but i'd chuck all the premier league U21 sides out, replace them with the top 16 sides from the National league to get to 64 clubs, do away with the group stage and make it a straight knock out cup.0 -
I don't have a problem with the staggered start for clubs given how many hundreds enter the comp ... but that should be the extent of the advantage you have for being higher up the pyramid.sam3110 said:I think the simplest option is usually the best. Make the FA Cup a free for all, 1st round everyone's in the draw, why do the better teams get to enter last? FC Dog and Duck have to play about 6 games before Man City even have to think about the cup.
But once clubs are in the draw it should be an open draw, that's the fun of the FA Cup, you do have the possibility of two big clubs drawn against each other at any stage.
It shouldn't be a 'manufactured' draw that keeps the bigger clubs apart. That's one of the downsides of the Champions League compared to the old European Cup where you had early round clashes (may even have been the first round) such as reigning European champions, Nottingham Forest, drawn against previous winners and current English champions, Liverpool. If you start seeding clubs so that they can't meet each other until the latter stages it makes the early rounds a bit 'false'.
Chelsea wouldn't even play their full first team against another top-flight side in the 3rd or 4th Round of the FA Cup so the chances of them putting out anything other than the U12s against an 11th-tier club is fanciful. I wouldn't be calling that "the magic of the Cup".sam3110 said:
In France the Cup sometimes throws up mental games, like a team from Réunion Island flying 11 hours for a cup game on mainland France, that's magic we need, Chelsea having to show up on a pitch in Cornwall to play an 11th tier team etc.
Agree, 100%. Unfortunately it's never going to happen because they need as many games there as possible to pay for the bloody thing.sam3110 said:
And make it mean something, fuck off the semi finals being at Wembley, that devalues getting to Wembley in the final.0
