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Where does Darren Pratley rank in the last 15 years?

Garrymanilow
Garrymanilow Posts: 13,169
in General Charlton
I've decided this needed its own thread because it's going to take up so much space and it's not really relevant to the Rumours thread. In many ways that makes it perfect for the Rumours thread, but still here we are. I'd like to apologise in advance to the admins, the formatting on my laptop is weird and this is likely to use up more internet than a Grapevine opinion. The question is whether Darren Pratley is a top half midfielder for Charlton in the last 15 years. https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/93897/summer-2022-transfer-rumours#latest I've gone from the 2008/09 season, also known as the worst season in living memory, and listed every midfielder we've had in that period. It was not fun and I have triggered some stuff that was best laid buried in the recesses of my mind.
A few words on the methodology. Firstly, thank you to @Pelling1993 for making it 15 years. Couldn’t have been 5 or 10 could it? Secondly, we might be the worst team to ever exist. The first question is what counts as a midfielder? At first I only included central midfielders as they realistically are the kind of players Pratley was competing with. But then I realised that a. under Bowyer we regularly played wide midfielders in what you might call a central role and b. the original point only specified midfielders and I couldn’t take doing all this and fielding moaning that Pratley had sneaked either side because Jordan bloody Cook was missing. I made this decision at about 2013/14 and had to go back and add the wingers from previous years in, so you can imagine my mood. I’ve counted any player who played a bit in midfield. That means Dervite makes it for starting off at holding midfield under Powell but Billy Clarke doesn’t despite Bowyer being weird and playing him at holding midfield for half a game. Forwards are a philosophical question. What does Aneke count as when played in the 10 role? For the sake of this I’ve separated wingers/10s who are forwards from wingers/10s who are midfielders.
Also, what is our definition of best? Best for us? Best overall as a player? Can you really compare Jerome Thomas to Darren Pratley? For the sake of this, I’ve based it on whether or not they were good for Charlton and the effect they had on the team while they were there. The baseline question ultimately is ‘were they better for Charlton than Darren Pratley?’ Astrit might have been a better footballer than Pratley but he did about 6 sprints his entire Charlton career and is the reason we have a defibrillator on the side of the pitch. Good player in theory, not so much for us across his time at the club. It’s also averaged out; Mark Gower was good one half season and then so bad the next it was impossible. He’s judged down the middle. There’s 112 midfielders there, so you only have to be the 56th best midfielder we’ve had to be top half, which doesn’t sound that hard to be honest. It’s not an exact science. It’s not even science.
Also, the players aren’t in any order other than top half/bottom half. Don’t come at me with your Frimpong was better than Razak opinions.

FAQS:

How did you decide who made the list and who didn’t? Arbitrarily.

Evina played in midfield one game in 2012/13 but he’s not on the list? I don’t care.

Rashid Yussuff was a midfielder and actually played one league cup game but he’s not on the list? Cool.

You forgot x player. If he’s not there then I didn’t include him on purpose. Unless it’s a really obvious player in which case yes, I forgot him.

Why did you include Bally Smart (1 cup appearance) but not Abraham Odoh (1 cup appearance)? Spite.

Why did you do this? No-one asked you to. Also spite.

Why is Buyens in the bottom half? To annoy Leuth.

Do you regret doing this? Every second of it.

Here’s the list, starting with people who were probably better than Darren Pratley and ending with people who were definitely worse:

Nicky Bailey

Zheng Zhi

Jonjo Shelvey

Matt Holland

Darren Ambrose

Johnnie Jackson

Michael Stewart

Andy Hughes

Dale Stephens

Bradley Pritchard

Danny Hollands

Ahmed Kashi

Ricky Holmes

JFC

Joe Aribo

Jordan Cousins

Sean Clare

George Dobson

Scott Fraser

CBT

Conor McGrandles

Jack Payne

Freddy Bulot

Johann Gudmundsson

Jerome Thomas

Lloyd Sam

Scott Wagstaff

Danny Green

Krystian Bielik

Tarique Fosu

Jonny Williams

Josh Cullen

Alfie Doughty

Conor Gallagher

Therry Racon

Francis Coquelin

Alou Diarra

Kyel Reid

Nathan Byrne

Sam Field

Jose Semedo

Charlie Kirk

Diego Poyet (twice)

Albie Morgan

Andrew Shinnie

Darel Russell

Astrit Ajdarevic

Milos Veljkovic

Cameron Stewart

Chris Eagles

Elliot Lee

Beram Kayal

Ben Reeves

Jamie Ward

DARREN PRATLEY

Dorian Dervite - HALFWAY POINT!


Yoni Buyens

Matt Spring

Josh Wright

Dean Sinclair

Tom Soares

Keith Gillespie

Alex Stavrinou

Alan McCormack

Dean Parrett

Lee Martin

Bally Smart

Ruben Bover

Mikel Alonso

Mark Gower (twice)

Eggert Jonsson

Abdul Razak

Emmanuel Frimpong

Davide Petrucci

Franck Moussa

Harry Arter (both times)

Aaron Henry

Aiden McGeady

Alex Gilbey

Andrew Crofts

Ben Dempsey

Ben Watson

Charles Clayden

Christophe Lepoint

Cristian Ceballos

David Davis

DJ

Dylan Levitt

El-Hadji Ba

Erhun Oztumer

Fred Ulvestad

George Lapslie

Hogan Ephraim

James Vennings

Callum Harriott

Joe Ledley

Jordan Botaka

Jordan Cook

Kevin Foley

Lawrie Wilson

Lee Cook (twice)

Luke Holden

Marcus Maddison

Mark Marshall

Matt Smith v1.0

Matt Smith v2.0

Ollie Muldoon

Regan Charles-Cook

Salim Kerkar

Taylor Maloney

Wade Small

Zak Bergdich

Conclusions: Darren Pratley is a top half midfielder from the last 15 years. He might not be the best footballer ever, but my god we’ve had some bad players. Also I need to get more hobbies.

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Comments

  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,673
    Top half just.
    And definitely above Ben Reeves who you have above him.
  • SOTF
    SOTF Posts: 1,149
    He was perfect for the system Bowyer wanted to play and gave 100% to the cause. It’s really as simple as that.
  • Macronate
    Macronate Posts: 12,892
    I know it’s a Pratley thread but Buyens should be higher.
  • Richard J
    Richard J Posts: 8,032
    If this is about the best they were for Charlton and the effect that they had on the team then surely the way Darren pulled us back into the Doncaster playoff match alone would at least put him above someone like Michael Stewart.

    Buyens should be top half as well although I appreciate that you are on a wind up.
  • mendonca
    mendonca Posts: 9,405
    Hard to be so dismissive of Pratley as he got us through the Doncaster semi final and a big contribution in the final v Sunderland. As he had energy and leadership, (alongside a dodgy transfer policy), we over relied on him being our "general" for too long.
  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 13,169
    Macronate said:
    I know it’s a Pratley thread but Buyens should be higher.
    Please refer to the FAQs re Buyens
  • sam3110
    sam3110 Posts: 21,265
    JBG is top 10, maybe even top 5
  • balham red
    balham red Posts: 1,278
    Don't see how Clare is so high up for midfielders, has he done anything of note as a midfielder for us?
  • Jac_52
    Jac_52 Posts: 1,460
    "I’ve based it on whether or not they were good for Charlton and the effect they had on the team while they were there."

    I don't think you did. 

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  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 26,853
    balham red said:
    Don't see how Clare is so high up for midfielders, has he done anything of note as a midfielder for us?
    Probably more than MacGrandles…
  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 13,169
    balham red said:
    Don't see how Clare is so high up for midfielders, has he done anything of note as a midfielder for us?
    The main thing I learned from doing this is that it's really not that hard to be top half in this time period. All you have to do is be better than El-Hadji Ba, Kevin Foley or Alan McCormack. Not doing much of note is actually a plus point compared to a lot of the clownshoes we've had turning out for us
  • Starinnaddick
    Starinnaddick Posts: 4,342
    It's impossible to come to a fair assessment but you need to compare like for like to get anywhere near. 

  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,955
    balham red said:
    Don't see how Clare is so high up for midfielders, has he done anything of note as a midfielder for us?
    So what?  @Garrymanilow won't give a toss.  :smile:


  • Macronate
    Macronate Posts: 12,892
    Garrymanilow said:
    Macronate said:
    I know it’s a Pratley thread but Buyens should be higher.
    Please refer to the FAQs re Buyens
    Missed that, duly noted.
  • AddicksAddict
    AddicksAddict Posts: 15,790
    I can’t believe we’ve had only two Matt Smiths. 
  • Themightyath2
    Themightyath2 Posts: 930
    Lepoint should not be included on the list as he was not a footballer! 
  • Hal1x
    Hal1x Posts: 4,265
    edited August 2022
    Really, who the Fuck cares? Is it because theres a train strike, or the platforms are too hot today for anoraks?
  • Marriott110
    Marriott110 Posts: 1,528
    Hal1x said:
    Really, who the Fuck cares? Is it because theres a train strike, or the platforms are too hot today for anoraks?
    Odd behaviour to criticise Charlton fans for discussing Charlton players on a Charlton forum


  • Hal1x
    Hal1x Posts: 4,265
    edited August 2022
    Marriott110 said:
    Hal1x said:
    Really, who the Fuck cares? Is it because theres a train strike, or the platforms are too hot today for anoraks?
    Odd behaviour to criticise Charlton fans for discussing Charlton players on a Charlton forum


    More curious than the in depth analysis of a bit part player, no longer with the club, in comparison with his fellow players. I would question the need for such a discussion, not on a day when paint must surely be drying faster than normal, and theres a game on.

    Perhaps you would like another discussion point, how does Paul Bacon stand comparison with all the other full backs since? Don't say I don't contribute.
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  • Addicktion
    Addicktion Posts: 384
    I think Kirk and Fraser being above Pratters is a bit generous, I'm sure they will be in time but they haven't added more value than him yet. 
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,315
    KIRK?! 
  • aliwibble
    aliwibble Posts: 26,290
    This post gets a promote
    1. for being considerate enough to move a Rumours thread derailment into its own thread
    2. in recognition of the sheer amount of effort (and I suspect absolute bloodymindedness) it must've taken to pull together
    3. and as a small degree of compensation for dredging up the memories of some of those players.
    That said, McGrandles above Cullen and Gallagher, ARE YOU MENTAL???
  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 13,169
    Thanks Ali, you're my favourite mod.
    The players aren't in any order other than being top half/bottom half, with Pratley near the middle for effect. If there seems to be some semblance of order there it's because, unfortunately, I started writing them down from the first year, so there's former Premier League players at the top and then we got progressively worse, and there's a massive, massive gap until 2011, then the wingers come in and then I got tired or whatever. The only order is those who Pratley, and those who cannot hope to Pratley.
  • bellz2002
    bellz2002 Posts: 1,361
    I had forgotten about so many of these players, e.g. Keith Gillespie, at least 10 years after he was any good!
  • West2003
    West2003 Posts: 386
    Absolutely gutted that I missed this but please do give us a heads up when you’re ranking Pawel Abbott among our previous centre forwards 
  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,955
    West2003 said:
    Absolutely gutted that I missed this but please do give us a heads up when you’re ranking Pawel Abbott among our previous centre forwards 
    Haha ....  nice one. It's probably your turn to compile the 'Where does Pawel Abbott rank in the last 15 years?'  thread? 

    It's probably fair to say that Garymanilow is just about done. :smile:


  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 13,169
    Oggy Red said:
    West2003 said:
    Absolutely gutted that I missed this but please do give us a heads up when you’re ranking Pawel Abbott among our previous centre forwards 
    Haha ....  nice one. It's probably your turn to compile the 'Where does Pawel Abbott rank in the last 15 years?'  thread? 

    It's probably fair to say that Garymanilow is just about done. :smile:


    I've seen too much.
  • Pelling1993
    Pelling1993 Posts: 6,673
    Jesus I was only defending Pratley from being labelled as awful :D
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,348
    Pelling1993 said:
    Jesus I was only defending Pratley from being labelled as awful :D
    Tbf, you were responding to my post, and I said the partnership with Watson was awful!

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