Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)

Airman Brown said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

I would say that we have been criminally mismanaged in the last 15 years. Sandgaard would IMO be best ensuring he is not part of the continuation of that but part of the end of it. Then he can play his music on a loop at the Valley and say what he likes without any criticism from me. 

Whatever mistakes were made 2006-11, and they were, the word “criminally” isn’t accurate or useful in describing the continuing PL board. It normalises the scum in the boardroom under ESI and indeed what happened 2012-14. 

Plenty of good Charlton supporters putting in their own money and wanting the best for the club following relegation in 2007.

Fair point. We have clearly had our share of criminals, but there have also been honest incompetents and those who just made some wrong calls at key times. It all adds up to where we are now though.

MuttleyCAFC said:

Airman Brown said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

I would say that we have been criminally mismanaged in the last 15 years. Sandgaard would IMO be best ensuring he is not part of the continuation of that but part of the end of it. Then he can play his music on a loop at the Valley and say what he likes without any criticism from me. 

Whatever mistakes were made 2006-11, and they were, the word “criminally” isn’t accurate or useful in describing the continuing PL board. It normalises the scum in the boardroom under ESI and indeed what happened 2012-14. 

Plenty of good Charlton supporters putting in their own money and wanting the best for the club following relegation in 2007.

Fair point. We have clearly had our share of criminals, but there have also been honest incompetents and those who just made some wrong calls at key times. It all adds up to where we are now though.

It does. I think we shouldn’t fall into the trap of forgetting that everything we do have was achieved by the board in place in the early and later 2000s. The club may not own The Valley now but it wouldn’t exist without them. That’s why I won’t allow TS to position things otherwise without challenge.

But criminally seems somewhat over the top.

We’re cool 🤓

catfordmorry said:

But criminally seems somewhat over the top.

Not when it comes to Southall and company 

blackpool72 said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Criminally wasn't meant literaly but as we have been run by criminals it was an unfortunate choice. Sandgaard seems to me to be a decent man and I do like him believe it or not. But I think he listens to the wrong people and I think getting rid of Jacko was misguided. As a Charlton legend, I think he deserved a bit more respect and time. I am not sure where I am with him and I think by now I should be. 

Like your good self I also believe Sandgaard is basically a decent man with good intentions. 

The reason I continue to have a pop at him is because I don't believe he knows anywhere near enough about running a football club.

Instead of appointing a CEO  with the experience needed to advise him he has given his son and girlfriend positions within the club for what they are not experienced in.

When asked about getting promotion and becoming successful as a club he says things like. 
You just need common sense 
Or 
You just need to be smarter than everyone else. 

I don't believe we will ever be successful unless he completely changes tack and starts employing the right people to advise him. 

This is of course just my opinion and if people like Paulfox or others disagree that's fine by me.

They can disagree but the results speak for themselves.

We have had a bottom half season in League One. We ended the previous season just outside the play offs. Adkins was not able to change anything as he was appointed to deliver this brilliant new system which would see us storm the league. It took Jacko to throw it in the bin and this season we seem to have come up with this new magic system and appointed a manager committed to play it. It feels like the same mistake to me.

I think we have been in League One long enough so I am expecting us to get out or at least have a bloody good go at it this season. I didn't see anything to suggest this is going to happen on Saturday but it is still early days. I'm not allowed to say there are not enough goals in the team so I won't. You can either see the obvious or you can't. Mind you, ditching one up front and bringing in a Stockton and it all changes potentially so you could argue we are not far off. But if nobody gets it, we might as well be a million miles away.

swordfish said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

We have had a bottom half season in League One. We ended the previous season just outside the play offs. Adkins was not able to change anything as he was appointed to deliver this brilliant new system which would see us storm the league. It took Jacko to throw it in the bin and this season we seem to have come up with this new magic system and appointed a manager committed to play it. It feels like the same mistake to me.

I think we have been in League One long enough so I am expecting us to get out or at least have a bloody good go at it this season. I didn't see anything to suggest this is going to happen on Saturday but it is still early days. I'm not allowed to say there are not enough goals in the team so I won't. You can either see the obvious or you can't. Mind you, ditching one up front and bringing in a Stockton and it all changes potentially so you could argue we are not far off. But if nobody gets it, we might as well be a million miles away.

Can I presume you would like to have seen Jacko given the chance to build a new squad, in which case, had he been given the same budget, do you think it likely you're expectations would be markedly different by now?

I must admit, I'm still holding out for a couple of new faces to add a sprinkle of magic dust, but I think if we could land this Palace guy, it could change the mindset of a few, myself included. We need to get from likely improvement to promotion potential, and fast.

Yes, I think it is easier for Jacko to try to address the weaknesses he will have worked out than the owner decide on a new system of play that he decides to fund with the same budget and consequently a lot of the same players, free transfers from lower ranked sides and a new manager. No disrespect to Ben Garner.

What Guardiola does is he has a system and buys players that fit it. He can. Or a manager might inherit a team with a lot of the right type of players that may open up the system as an option but for the owner just to decide is crazy. Well it is what happened last season. We had this idea of a Charlton way of playing, but whose idea was it? Roddy's? I am just calling what I see. If we make some good signings that make it all work I can't complain. I'm not sure we have yet.

MuttleyCAFC said:

swordfish said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

We have had a bottom half season in League One. We ended the previous season just outside the play offs. Adkins was not able to change anything as he was appointed to deliver this brilliant new system which would see us storm the league. It took Jacko to throw it in the bin and this season we seem to have come up with this new magic system and appointed a manager committed to play it. It feels like the same mistake to me.

I think we have been in League One long enough so I am expecting us to get out or at least have a bloody good go at it this season. I didn't see anything to suggest this is going to happen on Saturday but it is still early days. I'm not allowed to say there are not enough goals in the team so I won't. You can either see the obvious or you can't. Mind you, ditching one up front and bringing in a Stockton and it all changes potentially so you could argue we are not far off. But if nobody gets it, we might as well be a million miles away.

Can I presume you would like to have seen Jacko given the chance to build a new squad, in which case, had he been given the same budget, do you think it likely you're expectations would be markedly different by now?

I must admit, I'm still holding out for a couple of new faces to add a sprinkle of magic dust, but I think if we could land this Palace guy, it could change the mindset of a few, myself included. We need to get from likely improvement to promotion potential, and fast.

Yes, I think it is easier for Jacko to try to address the weaknesses he will have worked out than the owner decide on a new system of play that he decides to fund with the same budget and consequently a lot of the same players, free transfers from lower ranked sides and a new manager. No disrespect to Ben Garner.

What Guardiola does is he has a system and buys players that fit it. He can. Or a manager might inherit a team with a lot of the right type of players that may open up the system as an option but for the owner just to decide is crazy. Well it is what happened last season. We had this idea of a Charlton way of playing, but whose idea was it? Roddy's? I am just calling what I see. If we make some good signings that make it all work I can't complain. I'm not sure we have yet.

The difference between this season and last is at least we are signing players that make sense to the system.

A lot of the players we signed last summer have already left or are the players people have question marks about, in this system, which is the system we signed them for in the first place.

I think it is fair to say that Murray did a great job realising that Curbs was a fantastic manager and running the club around that. Where he went wrong was to change things when Curbs left to a new system that took a lot of power and responsibility away from the manager.

My belief is that the best owners find the best manager, often through chance which is why I like the idea of caretakers until you find the right one. Curbs was the cheap option, Bowyer was the cheap option. Let them show what they can do and if they can't try somebody else.

It feels to me that the club is Sandgaards toy and it is very much down to his whims and judgement and sadly I don't have much faith in that. I want to, I wish I did but I haven't got the rose tint feature which can hide what I have seen and am seeing. He isn't a crook and wants to succeed and he has invested, but I fear he has wasted a lot of it because his model is too tight and controlling. It is always going to be a manager that brings you success, but it is such an important job for the owner to create the conditions for that success. The most important job of all really.

All my hopes are on Garner has he has as much chance of success as any other we might bring in. It is just if it doesn't work out, Jacko or Euell could have been given until October. Like Adkins, it might take longer and be more expensive if Garner is not a success and that is the season finished. I have a strong belief that interviews in football are for the egos of those doing them. 

I would say, and it is my firm belief, that the team we had up to the point Parker was sold was the fourth best in the country. That falls just within two decades. And of course, whilst we never matched that height, we had success after that too.

What has upset me in that time is the small windows of opportunity that have not been snatched. We can go back to selling Andy Reid and bringing in Andy Gray which pretty much cost us a play off place at a key time IMO. Then you have something special happening with Powell and him having the rug pulled when we were clearly on to something. Even then we could have rebuilt but Yellow Tooth undermined him and instead of building on what we still had (Yann and Morrison to name but two) followed a path which was flawed and sadly what he bought the club for. And as Katrien said, if we didn't like it, tough. After that, we had Bowyer who was not supported at all after his fantastic achievement in getting us promoted. We only just missed out on staying up due to an incompetent ref at Barnsley despite a weak squad and the club being sold to crooks without any care.

Last season, our summer was chaotic and delusional IMO and that was under this owner. Yes, this summer has been slightly better but the bar is about as low as you can get. And I am not happy at our striking options going into the season. It is great that Leaburn is looking good, but unfair to stake so much on him. I see Sandgaard happily blaming everybody else when he hasn't exactly been great so far. And that is a fact seeing as he is on his 4th manager and we are still in this league and looking likely to stay there.

Well 2000 to 2004 were the best years I have experienced as a Charlton fan in terms of the ability of the team/quality of players. If Sandgaard ever gets us to a similar level we will worship him as our God. Can't see it myself and somebody should give the bloke a history lesson.

thenewbie said:

The main issue I have with Sandgaard's approach and a lot of his media/press stuff is that it very much strikes me as someone chucking bricks from inside a house of glass.

If we had seen/were seeing a big improvement either on the pitch or in terms of revenue etc then maybe him decrying past regimes would be easier to swallow, but for all his criticism and ambition, we've stood still AT BEST under his leadership this far.

Maybe we were badly run before, maybe we weren't but it strikes me that RIGHT NOW, under the sole management of Sandgaard and associates, we're middling league one and probably not likely to change that in the immediate future. Hardly a sign of revolutionary good management, IMO.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts entirely, yet we seem to be content with it