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Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)

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  • If you are content, happily watch the club decline even more.
    Cast your mind back 2 years that’s a club in decline a club close to closing its doors …. Where we are now is years ahead from then .. there still work to do you can’t undo 6/8 years of neglect in two years 
    Has anyone seen RonnieMoore and Thomas in the same room?
  • edited August 2022
    We were run by a bunch of crooks. I am grateful for Sandgaard prising the club from them but critical of a lot of his decisions as an owner. I have the Danish Flag behind Muttley which shows my gratitude. I think he is making poor calls now though so should I just be happy about it? 
    Nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe, but we keep going round round baby right round on here. What we need is a good old CL pitch battle to resolve our differences followed by a knees up and a beer. As the saying goes, especially here, there's far more unites us than divides us.

    If it came down to it, A pound to a penny says we'd go straight to the knees up or the beer. Well I would, but I'm just a keyboard warrior 🥊🕺🍻 😎 
  • shirty5 said:
    If you are content, happily watch the club decline even more.
    Cast your mind back 2 years that’s a club in decline a club close to closing its doors …. Where we are now is years ahead from then .. there still work to do you can’t undo 6/8 years of neglect in two years 
    It would not have closed its doors. First it would have gone into administration. That’s not closing the doors 
    Who would buy the club out of administration after the points deduction?

    HMRC don't care about clubs. They want their pound of flesh.


  • edited August 2022
    Crusty54 said:
    shirty5 said:
    If you are content, happily watch the club decline even more.
    Cast your mind back 2 years that’s a club in decline a club close to closing its doors …. Where we are now is years ahead from then .. there still work to do you can’t undo 6/8 years of neglect in two years 
    It would not have closed its doors. First it would have gone into administration. That’s not closing the doors 
    Who would buy the club out of administration after the points deduction?

    HMRC don't care about clubs. They want their pound of flesh.


    Wigan survived, Crusty. And look at them now. 

    Another club in Derby as well. See what they are like on Saturday 
  • shirty5 said:
    Crusty54 said:
    shirty5 said:
    If you are content, happily watch the club decline even more.
    Cast your mind back 2 years that’s a club in decline a club close to closing its doors …. Where we are now is years ahead from then .. there still work to do you can’t undo 6/8 years of neglect in two years 
    It would not have closed its doors. First it would have gone into administration. That’s not closing the doors 
    Who would buy the club out of administration after the points deduction?

    HMRC don't care about clubs. They want their pound of flesh.


    Wigan survived, Crusty. And look at them now. 

    Another club in Derby as well. See what they are like on Saturday 
    If we draw/lose  -that’s a good point /we were unlucky , they’ll be up there in the mix and we’re just starting to gel after a lot of personnel changes 
    If we win- they’re in financial difficulty and have made a lot of changes with new players yet to gel 
  • Crusty54 said:
    shirty5 said:
    If you are content, happily watch the club decline even more.
    Cast your mind back 2 years that’s a club in decline a club close to closing its doors …. Where we are now is years ahead from then .. there still work to do you can’t undo 6/8 years of neglect in two years 
    It would not have closed its doors. First it would have gone into administration. That’s not closing the doors 
    Who would buy the club out of administration after the points deduction?

    HMRC don't care about clubs. They want their pound of flesh.


    How many professional football clubs have been in administration in the last 20 years? How many of them then ceased to exist? 
  • Crusty54 said:
    shirty5 said:
    If you are content, happily watch the club decline even more.
    Cast your mind back 2 years that’s a club in decline a club close to closing its doors …. Where we are now is years ahead from then .. there still work to do you can’t undo 6/8 years of neglect in two years 
    It would not have closed its doors. First it would have gone into administration. That’s not closing the doors 
    Who would buy the club out of administration after the points deduction?

    HMRC don't care about clubs. They want their pound of flesh.


    How many professional football clubs have been in administration in the last 20 years? How many of them then ceased to exist? 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administration_(British_football)#List_of_clubs_in_England_and_Wales_that_have_entered_administration_or_CVA
  • edited August 2022
    Nobody can say what would have happened in 2020 and few wanted to find out. However, it is correct in my view that the point of maximum jeopardy - certainly since the war - was 1984, because as I understand it the option of administration did not exist in English insolvency law at that time. In addition, football generally was in the doldrums. 

    I will say that I don’t think the prospect of a points deduction was the significant problem to the people in the wings in 2020. The issue was The Valley and Sparrows Lane. Administration would have posed some interesting questions for RD, who was on the hook for the ex-director loans and would not easily have got his loan to CAFC back if he found himself without a tenant.
  • Crusty54 said:
    shirty5 said:
    If you are content, happily watch the club decline even more.
    Cast your mind back 2 years that’s a club in decline a club close to closing its doors …. Where we are now is years ahead from then .. there still work to do you can’t undo 6/8 years of neglect in two years 
    It would not have closed its doors. First it would have gone into administration. That’s not closing the doors 
    Who would buy the club out of administration after the points deduction?

    HMRC don't care about clubs. They want their pound of flesh.


    How many professional football clubs have been in administration in the last 20 years? How many of them then ceased to exist? 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administration_(British_football)#List_of_clubs_in_England_and_Wales_that_have_entered_administration_or_CVA
    So most survive. Of course it was a worrying time and I’m not going to suggest going into administration would have been a positive, but I’m confident we’d have survived 



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  • edited August 2022
    We should still be grateful to Sandgaard. There was a chance we could have ceased to exist and he removed it. Also, he has invested in the club and in my view, wiser investment of the same scale and we would be in a much better place.

    Behind the scenes it has been a bit chaotic as well as in front of them as 4 managers testify to. Stability seems to be a word Sandgaard doesn't understand. He has bought and owns this expensive toy and wants to play with it. The problem is, we have an emotional attachment to it and the fans, lets face it, area a big reason why people buy into a loss making business like football. Well lower league football at least. For the adulation and triumph when you get it right.
  • edited August 2022
    Fair play to TS for saving the club from the spivs for which I am grateful. I also understand there is a limit to how many millions he wants to invest and his hopes to achieve success in his own way.

    However, it feels like it is getting increasingly tougher to get out of L1. You probably do need to spend more than he is apparently willing, or able to, in order bring that little bit of extra quality into the squad to have a team that matches his ambitions. I watched the 10 minute highlights of Saturday's game on Charlton TV yesterday and that, together with what I have seen of the pre-season games, did not fill me with much optimism we will achieve a top six position this season.

    As ever, we will have to wait and see what happens between now and the closing of the transfer window but I suspect we will already be in a catch up situation by 1st September. If our remaining signings are primarily young loanees then they need to be of the quality of a Cullen/Bielik/Gallagher as opposed to some of the others we have seen in the last couple of years. Plus of course, we need more options up front.
  • Without getting into the weeds of this, I do think that the idea that 'we have had four managers in two years which means we have been chaotically run' does not really hold water. As we all know, one of those resigned to move up a division, one was sacked after being given far more time than most fans wanted, one he obviously never wanted but buckled to fan and media pressure, and the other we still have.
    I would not want to see this turnover rate continue, but neither do I think his past performance really suggests that it will.
    I think that is probably a fair comment and certainly the high turnover management wise isn't COMPLETELY his fault.

    That said, when you consider that off the field appointments are also coming in and out at a very high rate and with no particular discernible success then at the very least he needs to be a bit more circumspect about slinging mud at other owners past or present. 

    I don't doubt that his intentions and enthusiasm are genuine and I'm sure he truly wants and believes he will be successful but he's not actually delivered in terms of results just yet. He's taken a midtable League One side and at considerable expense transformed it into... Well, a midtable League One side. 

    Yes he's had to unravel and undo damage done before but there's only so long that remains a valid reason/excuse.
  • thenewbie said:

    I think that is probably a fair comment and certainly the high turnover management wise isn't COMPLETELY his fault.

    That said, when you consider that off the field appointments are also coming in and out at a very high rate and with no particular discernible success then at the very least he needs to be a bit more circumspect about slinging mud at other owners past or present. 

    I don't doubt that his intentions and enthusiasm are genuine and I'm sure he truly wants and believes he will be successful but he's not actually delivered in terms of results just yet. He's taken a midtable League One side and at considerable expense transformed it into... Well, a midtable League One side. 

    Yes he's had to unravel and undo damage done before but there's only so long that remains a valid reason/excuse.

    No doubt there is a lot of truth in what you say. I tend to feel that takeovers are likely to be somewhat chaotic times and now is the time to really put a firm plan in place, plus my take is that the division as a whole is just getting better, but I can certainly see what you mean.
  • thenewbie said:

    I think that is probably a fair comment and certainly the high turnover management wise isn't COMPLETELY his fault.

    That said, when you consider that off the field appointments are also coming in and out at a very high rate and with no particular discernible success then at the very least he needs to be a bit more circumspect about slinging mud at other owners past or present. 

    I don't doubt that his intentions and enthusiasm are genuine and I'm sure he truly wants and believes he will be successful but he's not actually delivered in terms of results just yet. He's taken a midtable League One side and at considerable expense transformed it into... Well, a midtable League One side. 

    Yes he's had to unravel and undo damage done before but there's only so long that remains a valid reason/excuse.

    No doubt there is a lot of truth in what you say. I tend to feel that takeovers are likely to be somewhat chaotic times and now is the time to really put a firm plan in place, plus my take is that the division as a whole is just getting better, but I can certainly see what you mean.
    The takeover was two years ago now. I would like to think that firm plans would have been in place well before now. It's possible that plans have changed (by necessity or choice) but that's implying that the original plan did not work - which is why I am sticking with my stance that Sandgaard is better off reining in the bravado and braggadocio until he's got something to actually boast about.

    I think you probably have a point that the division as a whole is getting better/harder but my concern is that Sandgaard doesn't seem to be adjusting accordingly.
  • edited August 2022

    The LOL button every time @paulfox sees a post that isnt overwhelmingly positive......

    Hammer Boom GIFs  Tenor

    Can I just say a very big thank you for making me laugh like child on what has been a f*cking awful day work-wise  :D
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  • Crusty54 said:
    We should still be grateful to Sandgaard. There was a chance we could have ceased to exist and he removed it. Also, he has invested in the club and in my view, wiser investment of the same scale and we would be in a much better place.

    Behind the scenes it has been a bit chaotic as well as in front of them as 4 managers testify to. Stability seems to be a word Sandgaard doesn't understand. He has bought and owns this expensive toy and wants to play with it. The problem is, we have an emotional attachment to it and the fans, lets face it, area a big reason why people buy into a loss making business like football. Well lower league football at least. For the adulation and triumph when you get it right.
    Sandgaard needs to remove his son and wife from the club and bring in experience,  people who know what they are doing.
    After that we can move forward, behind the scenes anyway.
    Can you provide any evidence that Martyn is not carrying out his duties correctly?

    Have you any idea what Raelynn Maloney is working on? I have spoken her and she is doing some trouble shooting like identifying why season tickets to the same address are posted separately. This is down to old computer systems. Changes happening for next season. She knows and understands the internal set up pretty well.
    RM seems to be helping out TS whenever he needs support. For example, TS was running late for the international fans meeting and RM stepped in to run the meeting until TS arrived about 15mins late. Alternative, was just to start the meeting whenever TS was available.
  • edited August 2022
    Crusty54 said:
    We should still be grateful to Sandgaard. There was a chance we could have ceased to exist and he removed it. Also, he has invested in the club and in my view, wiser investment of the same scale and we would be in a much better place.

    Behind the scenes it has been a bit chaotic as well as in front of them as 4 managers testify to. Stability seems to be a word Sandgaard doesn't understand. He has bought and owns this expensive toy and wants to play with it. The problem is, we have an emotional attachment to it and the fans, lets face it, area a big reason why people buy into a loss making business like football. Well lower league football at least. For the adulation and triumph when you get it right.
    Sandgaard needs to remove his son and wife from the club and bring in experience,  people who know what they are doing.
    After that we can move forward, behind the scenes anyway.
    Can you provide any evidence that Martyn is not carrying out his duties correctly?

    Have you any idea what Raelynn Maloney is working on? I have spoken her and she is doing some trouble shooting like identifying why season tickets to the same address are posted separately. This is down to old computer systems. Changes happening for next season. She knows and understands the internal set up pretty well.
    RM seems to be helping out TS whenever he needs support. For example, TS was running late for the international fans meeting and RM stepped in to run the meeting until TS arrived about 15mins late. Alternative, was just to start the meeting whenever TS was available.
    I think Raelynn's work experience was listed somewhere on the old Sandgaard thread. I thought digging it out was a bit OTT at the time, but when it appeared, it did seem to  me to take the heat out of the debate as to whether she had any qualities that could be of benefit to the Club for a while, but for some those doubts are still there. However, Tony Keohane's reputation indicates that he's the bigger problem, besides which, anyone thinking that Thomas is going to remove Martin and Raelynn from the Club is living in cloud cuckoo land. It's not going to happen. End of!

      
  • swordfish said:
    Crusty54 said:
    We should still be grateful to Sandgaard. There was a chance we could have ceased to exist and he removed it. Also, he has invested in the club and in my view, wiser investment of the same scale and we would be in a much better place.

    Behind the scenes it has been a bit chaotic as well as in front of them as 4 managers testify to. Stability seems to be a word Sandgaard doesn't understand. He has bought and owns this expensive toy and wants to play with it. The problem is, we have an emotional attachment to it and the fans, lets face it, area a big reason why people buy into a loss making business like football. Well lower league football at least. For the adulation and triumph when you get it right.
    Sandgaard needs to remove his son and wife from the club and bring in experience,  people who know what they are doing.
    After that we can move forward, behind the scenes anyway.
    Can you provide any evidence that Martyn is not carrying out his duties correctly?

    Have you any idea what Raelynn Maloney is working on? I have spoken her and she is doing some trouble shooting like identifying why season tickets to the same address are posted separately. This is down to old computer systems. Changes happening for next season. She knows and understands the internal set up pretty well.
    RM seems to be helping out TS whenever he needs support. For example, TS was running late for the international fans meeting and RM stepped in to run the meeting until TS arrived about 15mins late. Alternative, was just to start the meeting whenever TS was available.
    I think Raelynn's work experience was listed somewhere on the old Sandgaard thread. I thought digging it out was a bit OTT at the time, but when it appeared, it did seem to  me to take the heat out of the debate as to whether she had any qualities that could be of benefit to the Club for a while, but for some those doubts are still there. However, Tony Keohane's reputation indicates that he's the bigger problem, besides which, anyone thinking that Thomas is going to remove Martin and Raelynn from the Club is living in cloud cuckoo land. It's not going to happen. End of!

      
    I think this is the cause of almost all of the circular arguments that go round and round, make people with both points of view angry with each other and escalate things needlessly.

    It's perfectly reasonable for TS to have Martin here full time and to utilise Raelynn's skills while she is here, assuming she accompanies him.

    I have come to the conclusion that Martin’s input, and ability, has been massively over egged by TS.  I just think that's the way he is.  The story is never consistent and every now and then he credits Martin with stuff thats massively over hyped.

    Raelynn, as far as I know, has no official role other than being the partner of the owner.  Yet she obviously does "stuff" above and beyond that.

    I don't believe people should make on the record statements every 5 minutes, like some people demand, but a bit of clarity about Raelynn and consistency and honesty about Martin would stop half the criticism/arguing in an instant.
  • Crusty54 said:
    shirty5 said:
    If you are content, happily watch the club decline even more.
    Cast your mind back 2 years that’s a club in decline a club close to closing its doors …. Where we are now is years ahead from then .. there still work to do you can’t undo 6/8 years of neglect in two years 
    It would not have closed its doors. First it would have gone into administration. That’s not closing the doors 
    Who would buy the club out of administration after the points deduction?

    HMRC don't care about clubs. They want their pound of flesh.


    Wigan did ok.
  • CafcSCP said:
    Crusty54 said:
    shirty5 said:
    If you are content, happily watch the club decline even more.
    Cast your mind back 2 years that’s a club in decline a club close to closing its doors …. Where we are now is years ahead from then .. there still work to do you can’t undo 6/8 years of neglect in two years 
    It would not have closed its doors. First it would have gone into administration. That’s not closing the doors 
    Who would buy the club out of administration after the points deduction?

    HMRC don't care about clubs. They want their pound of flesh.


    Wigan did ok.
    So did Palace and Southampton.
  • edited August 2022
    CafcSCP said:
    Crusty54 said:
    shirty5 said:
    If you are content, happily watch the club decline even more.
    Cast your mind back 2 years that’s a club in decline a club close to closing its doors …. Where we are now is years ahead from then .. there still work to do you can’t undo 6/8 years of neglect in two years 
    It would not have closed its doors. First it would have gone into administration. That’s not closing the doors 
    Who would buy the club out of administration after the points deduction?

    HMRC don't care about clubs. They want their pound of flesh.


    Wigan did ok.
    So did Palace and Southampton.
    Wigan & Derby were both relegated after their points deductions, so administration does seem to have a downside even if few Club's ever become extinct as a result, historically speaking. 
     
    Each case is different. We're as vulnerable as Derby having failed to rid ourselves of a former owner, only in our case one who has no love for the Club.

    Still, if Thomas was to tire of fannying about here and put us into administration, unlikely though that is, no doubt a rich white knight will save us and propel us upwards. And if not, well we'll just start up again as a phoenix Club lower down the League structure, playing who knows where. We'd get to see some new grounds too.

    It couldn't happen though could it, because we're Charlton.
  • swordfish said:
    CafcSCP said:
    Crusty54 said:
    shirty5 said:
    If you are content, happily watch the club decline even more.
    Cast your mind back 2 years that’s a club in decline a club close to closing its doors …. Where we are now is years ahead from then .. there still work to do you can’t undo 6/8 years of neglect in two years 
    It would not have closed its doors. First it would have gone into administration. That’s not closing the doors 
    Who would buy the club out of administration after the points deduction?

    HMRC don't care about clubs. They want their pound of flesh.


    Wigan did ok.
    So did Palace and Southampton.
    Wigan & Derby were both relegated after their points deductions, so administration does seem to have a downside even if few Club's ever become extinct as a result, historically speaking. 
     
    Each case is different. We're as vulnerable as Derby having failed to rid ourselves of a former owner, only in our case one who has no love for the Club.

    Still, when Thomas finally tires of fannying about here and puts us into administration, no doubt a rich white knight will save us and propel us upwards. And if not, well we'll just start up again as a phoenix Club lower down the League structure, playing who knows where. We'd get to see some new grounds too.

    It couldn't happen though could it, because we're Charlton.
    Why would Thomas put us in administration?  He is the only creditor and there is nothing to administer.
  • Crusty54 said:
    We should still be grateful to Sandgaard. There was a chance we could have ceased to exist and he removed it. Also, he has invested in the club and in my view, wiser investment of the same scale and we would be in a much better place.

    Behind the scenes it has been a bit chaotic as well as in front of them as 4 managers testify to. Stability seems to be a word Sandgaard doesn't understand. He has bought and owns this expensive toy and wants to play with it. The problem is, we have an emotional attachment to it and the fans, lets face it, area a big reason why people buy into a loss making business like football. Well lower league football at least. For the adulation and triumph when you get it right.
    Sandgaard needs to remove his son and wife from the club and bring in experience,  people who know what they are doing.
    After that we can move forward, behind the scenes anyway.
    Can you provide any evidence that Martyn is not carrying out his duties correctly?

    Have you any idea what Raelynn Maloney is working on? I have spoken her and she is doing some trouble shooting like identifying why season tickets to the same address are posted separately. This is down to old computer systems. Changes happening for next season. She knows and understands the internal set up pretty well.
    Oh please, you are not telling me they are suitable for the job and that Sandgaard has not deliberately given them posts because of who they are.
    My Branch Manager was given the post because of his dad being the owner of the company, it's an absolute mess and the poor fella does not know what day of the week it is.
    Was you a supporter of Meire btw?
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