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Bradford City Possible takeover ( + lots of associated crypto discussion)
Comments
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If business has taught me anything it's that whenever anyone states there's 'very little downside' to any form of deal or transaction you can bet your bottom dollar there is an absolute massive downside for someone.kentaddick said:
to be clear - i think this takeover is a terrible idea. Alarm bells are ringing when in relation to a football club thats been around for a hundred years, that employs people and means a lot to families of supporters that "very little downside" if things dont go well.
As you pointed out in this case its likely the fans who will suffer if it goes wrong because you can bet these new owners won't be hanging round long if it starts to go pear-shaped.
Don't know anything about the takeover other than what I've read on here but if something looks and sounds dodgy then normally it ends up being dodgy.6 -
wait til you find out about how money gets it's value.seth plum said:
I am not saying they’re not here, but the value of Tulips was based on perception too.Jints said:
What's the value of gold based on? Scarcity and perception of value.seth plum said:
So what is cryptocurrency based on? Oil? Coffee? The sweat of honest labour? Sold out concerts?cafcpolo said:
I can't stop laughing at the irony of this. A man who has admitted in the past week that he can barely install an app on his phone questioning the intelligence of another poster whilst thinking a plant is comparable with a type technology.seth plum said:
Oh look one of my pile on stalkers adding nothing beyond a dig.kentaddick said:
oh look, another out-dated and provably wrong comparison.seth plum said:If this were Holland (and not Bradford) in 1635, you would be able to buy the club with Tulips. More actual than crypto currency and prettier than mushrooms.
My point, if you have the intelligence to understand, is that cryptocurrency has as much genuine substance as trading in tulips.
Digital currencies (in one form or anotehr) are here to stay.0 -
sure. Like fundamentals of the internet "computers talking to each other" didn't make sense to most people in the late 80s/early 90s. But eventually it gets simpler - to the point where you wont have to think about it at all. But my point was, to say they don't have any value is provably false in any sense you look at it.WSS said:
The problem is, is that really doesn't make sense to 99.5% of the population. Until that hurdle is overcome or somebody can create a 'Dummies Guide To..." it's always going to be shoulder shrugged.kentaddick said:There are dApps on the ethereum network, If i want to use the ethereum network i have to pay gas fees to miners/stakers - the more eth i own, the more i can use the network - that has intrinsic value. In order for the network to exist, nodes/miners/stakers have to exist to maintain the network - they are then rewarded with gas fees in eth. I can't see how that eth doesn't have value.
And this is coming from somebody who actively tries to learn about it every week.0 -
But "computers talking to each other" makes sense, doesn't it? It may have been hard to comprehend but it was imaginable. Just like time travel/teleportation/mobile phones etc. You can picture it in your headkentaddick said:
sure. Like fundamentals of the internet "computers talking to each other" didn't make sense to most people in the late 80s/early 90s. But eventually it gets simpler - to the point where you wont have to think about it at all. But my point was, to say they don't have any value is provably false in any sense you look at it.WSS said:
The problem is, is that really doesn't make sense to 99.5% of the population. Until that hurdle is overcome or somebody can create a 'Dummies Guide To..." it's always going to be shoulder shrugged.kentaddick said:There are dApps on the ethereum network, If i want to use the ethereum network i have to pay gas fees to miners/stakers - the more eth i own, the more i can use the network - that has intrinsic value. In order for the network to exist, nodes/miners/stakers have to exist to maintain the network - they are then rewarded with gas fees in eth. I can't see how that eth doesn't have value.
And this is coming from somebody who actively tries to learn about it every week.
I think the challenge that crypto/blockchain has is that it seems to be completely 'new'. At the moment it feels more akin to telling somebody in the 1700s that you would be flying on a plane, using engines and petrol.
The language and technology just seem too advanced to 'get' for too many people at the moment. Like you say though, tech moves so fast now that when the accessibility and understanding is there it could fly.0 -
The wellspring for the value of money is connected to things of substance.
An actual piece of paper is valueless in itself.
However if I grow twenty cauliflowers, and want to exchange them (known as barter) for a jar of honey, I might be offered a carved bowl in exchange for my cauliflowers, and knowing the honey producer is after a carved bowl I accept it and use it to get the honey.
If 'money' or some form of tokens exist to facilitate such a palaver more easily then great. But that money or tokens is related or connected to cauliflowers, a bowl, or honey.
Cryptocurrency is connected to what?
Blind faith that it has any meaning?
Or is it that the entire world wide web is 'owned' by Cryptocurrency PLC?
Which would be weird because I had to pay for my VPN in actual pounds sterling.
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I already told you - mathematics. Yet again, the rest of your post I genuinely can’t make heads or tails of. Are you well?seth plum said:The wellspring for the value of money is connected to things of substance.
An actual piece of paper is valueless in itself.
However if I grow twenty cauliflowers, and want to exchange them (known as barter) for a jar of honey, I might be offered a carved bowl in exchange for my cauliflowers, and knowing the honey producer is after a carved bowl I accept it and use it to get the honey.
If 'money' or some form of tokens exist to facilitate such a palaver more easily then great. But that money or tokens is related or connected to cauliflowers, a bowl, or honey.
Cryptocurrency is connected to what?
Blind faith that it has any meaning?
Or is it that the entire world wide web is 'owned' by Cryptocurrency PLC?
Which would be weird because I had to pay for my VPN in actual pounds sterling.The huge advantage is that crypto currencies like bitcoin and ethereum aren’t owned by anybody but their participants. I think you need to do a bit more reading on the subject.3 -
Seth this isnt having a dig at all infact I often admire your tenacity that is shown when having a discussion with people of different viewpoints, however this all reminds me of when I came home in about 1981 with a mobile phone the size of a brick that I had bought on a lease agreement over 5 years as the capital cost was £1800.00 ( a fortune in 1981 ) and my dad went mental saying who the fuck needs to ring you when your out ! He had no understanding of what the future held. Infact now I often look around areas of london when I'm down and think if my old dad could see this he would be speechless lolseth plum said:The wellspring for the value of money is connected to things of substance.
An actual piece of paper is valueless in itself.
However if I grow twenty cauliflowers, and want to exchange them (known as barter) for a jar of honey, I might be offered a carved bowl in exchange for my cauliflowers, and knowing the honey producer is after a carved bowl I accept it and use it to get the honey.
If 'money' or some form of tokens exist to facilitate such a palaver more easily then great. But that money or tokens is related or connected to cauliflowers, a bowl, or honey.
Cryptocurrency is connected to what?
Blind faith that it has any meaning?
Or is it that the entire world wide web is 'owned' by Cryptocurrency PLC?
Which would be weird because I had to pay for my VPN in actual pounds sterling.
I think the likes of you and I should trust in those that understand this stuff and try to set aside traditional thinking as I have realised that if you try to view this in conventional terms you will never make sense of it.
During lockdown I picked 5 crypto currencies and got my son to buy £200 of each for me. I said I wouldnt look at them for 2 years to see what happened and I havent hell I might be a millionaire now or I might have lost it who knows but there it is in a nutshell mate2 -
Thank you for your reply.AndyG said:
Seth this isnt having a dig at all infact I often admire your tenacity that is shown when having a discussion with people of different viewpoints, however this all reminds me of when I came home in about 1981 with a mobile phone the size of a brick that I had bought on a lease agreement over 5 years as the capital cost was £1800.00 ( a fortune in 1981 ) and my dad went mental saying who the fuck needs to ring you when your out ! He had no understanding of what the future held. Infact now I often look around areas of london when I'm down and think if my old dad could see this he would be speechless lolseth plum said:The wellspring for the value of money is connected to things of substance.
An actual piece of paper is valueless in itself.
However if I grow twenty cauliflowers, and want to exchange them (known as barter) for a jar of honey, I might be offered a carved bowl in exchange for my cauliflowers, and knowing the honey producer is after a carved bowl I accept it and use it to get the honey.
If 'money' or some form of tokens exist to facilitate such a palaver more easily then great. But that money or tokens is related or connected to cauliflowers, a bowl, or honey.
Cryptocurrency is connected to what?
Blind faith that it has any meaning?
Or is it that the entire world wide web is 'owned' by Cryptocurrency PLC?
Which would be weird because I had to pay for my VPN in actual pounds sterling.
I think the likes of you and I should trust in those that understand this stuff and try to set aside traditional thinking as I have realised that if you try to view this in conventional terms you will never make sense of it.
During lockdown I picked 5 crypto currencies and got my son to buy £200 of each for me. I said I wouldnt look at them for 2 years to see what happened and I havent hell I might be a millionaire now or I might have lost it who knows but there it is in a nutshell mate
My understanding is you spent a thousand pounds to buy something that exists on the internet.
Not shares in a company that produces something tangible such as Apple does.
Are we on the same page so far?
So where did your thousand pounds come from? Most likely you earned it by working, perhaps for the sake of argument working making pottery.
If that is true the money you put in to the currency has come from somewhere recognisable, the sweat of your brow the skill of your hands.
Which begs the question what exactly is it you’re buying for your thousand pounds?
It seems like you’re buying hope that in two years the cryptocurrency business will buy whatever it is you’re supposed to have back for, say, ten thousand pounds.
Now is that hope based on the cryptocurrency companies themselves increasing production of something, say pottery or whatnot (meaning the money coming from somewhere just like yours did) or using some other technique to sell the mystery they’re selling? What do you base your hope on? That they’re playing the international money markets or something? For that activity wouldn’t they need real money?0 -
Seth I have no deep understanding of this and tbh my hunch is probably the same as yours in that one day the world will wake up to the news that a financial crash in crypto coins has left alot of people skint ! I tell one of my sons that numerous times a week as he earns his living trading them and at 20 years old he does pretty well out of it ( at the moment ) the point I'm trying to make is you and I are looking at this in conventional terms, I make a widget and sell a widget for profit is what makes the world go around. I think we are wrong to look at this stuff like that that's all, although I would still put money on it all going tits up personallyseth plum said:
Thank you for your reply.AndyG said:
Seth this isnt having a dig at all infact I often admire your tenacity that is shown when having a discussion with people of different viewpoints, however this all reminds me of when I came home in about 1981 with a mobile phone the size of a brick that I had bought on a lease agreement over 5 years as the capital cost was £1800.00 ( a fortune in 1981 ) and my dad went mental saying who the fuck needs to ring you when your out ! He had no understanding of what the future held. Infact now I often look around areas of london when I'm down and think if my old dad could see this he would be speechless lolseth plum said:The wellspring for the value of money is connected to things of substance.
An actual piece of paper is valueless in itself.
However if I grow twenty cauliflowers, and want to exchange them (known as barter) for a jar of honey, I might be offered a carved bowl in exchange for my cauliflowers, and knowing the honey producer is after a carved bowl I accept it and use it to get the honey.
If 'money' or some form of tokens exist to facilitate such a palaver more easily then great. But that money or tokens is related or connected to cauliflowers, a bowl, or honey.
Cryptocurrency is connected to what?
Blind faith that it has any meaning?
Or is it that the entire world wide web is 'owned' by Cryptocurrency PLC?
Which would be weird because I had to pay for my VPN in actual pounds sterling.
I think the likes of you and I should trust in those that understand this stuff and try to set aside traditional thinking as I have realised that if you try to view this in conventional terms you will never make sense of it.
During lockdown I picked 5 crypto currencies and got my son to buy £200 of each for me. I said I wouldnt look at them for 2 years to see what happened and I havent hell I might be a millionaire now or I might have lost it who knows but there it is in a nutshell mate
My understanding is you spent a thousand pounds to buy something that exists on the internet.
Not shares in a company that produces something tangible such as Apple does.
Are we on the same page so far?
So where did your thousand pounds come from? Most likely you earned it by working, perhaps for the sake of argument working making pottery.
If that is true the money you put in to the currency has come from somewhere recognisable, the sweat of your brow the skill of your hands.
Which begs the question what exactly is it you’re buying for your thousand pounds?
It seems like you’re buying hope that in two years the cryptocurrency business will buy whatever it is you’re supposed to have back for, say, ten thousand pounds.
Now is that hope based on the cryptocurrency companies themselves increasing production of something, say pottery or whatnot (meaning the money coming from somewhere just like yours did) or using some other technique to sell the mystery they’re selling? What do you base your hope on? That they’re playing the international money markets or something? For that activity wouldn’t they need real money?0 -
And the whole point of me buying them was to try and show my son that it is all bollox, I just picked 5 random low value coins and said buy them and let's see what happens, no skill or research involved, whereas my son spends hours researching the bloody things, imo it's all just a gamble like any form on betting until it all collapses by that I dont think crypto currencies will disappear as it has gone 2 far for that but there certainly wont be as many in a few years like everything else a few will survive and become the market, the luck is picking which ones imo1
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It is so weird.
I couldn't buy your car and say I will pay in Sethcoins that I have just dreamed up, and I will send you an email saying 'I grant you 100 Sethcoins' could I?0 -
Right, @seth plum to use your cauliflower/honey analogy:
say you want to buy cauliflowers, to do that you’d have to use the cauliflower network - so you have to go to the cauliflower network and buy some cauliflowers. This network is made of various groups of cauliflower growers, and in order for you to be recognised as a cauliflower owner they all have to see and acknowledge that you are a cauliflower owner so that it’s recorded on a ledger everyone can see. In order to do this, this takes the cauliflower growers a little bit of work, so you have to pay them a little bit of the cauliflower you want in order to be recognised as a cauliflower owner. This is required for all transactions on the cauliflower network.Say now you don’t want cauliflower, you want to create honey, because you have some utility for that honey. There’s no honey network, but that’s okay, because the cauliflower network will allow you to turn your cauliflower into honey by reconfiguring the dna of the cauliflower into honey and still be able to use the cauliflower network. You still have to pay the cauliflower growers fees because you’re using that network. Other people see your honey and want to buy your honey to use the utility for that honey you’ve created. That honey is now worth something - as people want to trade their cauliflower for some honey. As a result that cauliflower also goes up in value because more people are using the network. Now imagine other people are doing the same thing with the cauliflower and turning it into all sorts of stuff that has utilities or uses, maybe they might even reference the ledger of your honey in their utility, so that it essentially builds on what your honey does.Hell, you might even want to become a cauliflower grower yourself instead of all that and maintain the cauliflower network, so you can collect a share of the cauliflower fees.Now imagine that’s all done in code, and that’s essentially how the ethereum network works.0 -
The crazy thing is, is yes, you probably could!1
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So where do I buy this honey covered cauliflower?5
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When cauliflower on Binance?Off_it said:So where do I buy this honey covered cauliflower?0 -
Further reading on how cryptocurrency works:
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/training/annual-national-training-seminar/2018/Emerging_Tech_Bitcoin_Crypto.pdf
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You can also learn how to code your own smart contracts using solidity here: cryptozombies.io0
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Blockchain Expert Explains One Concept in 5 Levels of Difficulty | WIRED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYip_Vuv8J0 1 -
What you seem to be describing is some kind of force getting a squeeze on transactions off the back of cauliflower growers (and honey producers). Why should that happen when those forces are neither growing nor consuming any cauliflowers?kentaddick said:Right, @seth plum to use your cauliflower/honey analogy:
say you want to buy cauliflowers, to do that you’d have to use the cauliflower network - so you have to go to the cauliflower network and buy some cauliflowers. This network is made of various groups of cauliflower growers, and in order for you to be recognised as a cauliflower owner but I am buying cauliflower expressly because I am no a cauliflower owner they all have to see and acknowledge that you are a cauliflower owner so that it’s recorded on a ledger everyone can see so after I buy a cauliflower I am obliged in some way to tell the world I have a cauliflower, why? In order to do this do what, write it down in a book that I have bought a cauliflower?, this takes the cauliflower growers a little bit of work, so you have to pay them a little bit of the cauliflower you want in order to be recognised as a cauliflower owner why on earth would I have to be recognised as a cauliflower owner?. This is required for all transactions on the cauliflower network to save all this faff I would buy my cauliflowers elsewhere, like Lewisham market or somewhere.Say now you don’t want cauliflower, you want to create honey, because you have some utility for that honey. There’s no honey network, but that’s okay, because the cauliflower network will allow you to turn your cauliflower into honey by reconfiguring the dna of the cauliflower into honey eh? and still be able to use the cauliflower network. You still have to pay the cauliflower growers fees because you’re using that network I paid the cauliflower growers fee the first time I bought the cauliflower, I paid it because they took the trouble to grow it an harvest it, once that's done the cauliflower is mine free and clear.. Other people see your honey eh? again, honey that has been made out of cauliflowers by altering its dna? and want to buy your honey to use the utility for that honey you’ve created. That honey is now worth something isn't it worth a cauliflower? - as people want to trade their cauliflower for some honey. As a result that cauliflower also goes up in value I can understand my cauliflower goes up in value because there's a shortage, and mine is still good to eat, but see no other reason because more people are using the network. Now imagine other people are doing the same thing with the cauliflower and turning it into all sorts of stuff that has utilities or uses, maybe they might even reference the ledger of your honey in their utility, so that it essentially builds on what your honey does as i asked earlier why do I need to pay somebody for writing down in a ledger that I have just bought a cauliflower with pounds shillings and pence?Hell, you might even want to become a cauliflower grower yourself instead of all that and maintain the cauliflower network, so you can collect a share of the cauliflower fees.
So money is made by somebody somewhere putting a tax on cauliflowers?Now imagine that’s all done in code, and that’s essentially how the ethereum network works.0 -
Is this something to do with cryptocurrency?Callumcafc said:Blockchain Expert Explains One Concept in 5 Levels of Difficulty | WIRED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYip_Vuv8J0
Sounds like upgraded technology that somebody expects you to pay for to use, like a vpn or a word programme or something.
I see no purpose for it.
Incidentally the lady in the video does not explain or define trade or trading in any detail, and that is the word the whole video seemingly depends on.0 - Sponsored links:
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Except, you know, all the purposes they mention in the video. She does go over what trade is - she literally talks about it with the 5 year old lmaoseth plum said:
Is this something to do with cryptocurrency?Callumcafc said:Blockchain Expert Explains One Concept in 5 Levels of Difficulty | WIRED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYip_Vuv8J0
Sounds like upgraded technology that somebody expects you to pay for to use, like a vpn or a word programme or something.
I see no purpose for it.
Incidentally the lady in the video does not explain or define trade or trading in any detail, and that is the word the whole video seemingly depends on.
You’re wilfully trolling now, nobody is this genuinely dense.0 -
No what I’m describing is literally the ethereum network and why ethereum (and other layer one cryptos) have value. In fact, you’ve highlighted exactly why there are other networks and cryptos, not just ethereum - why should you pay such high fees? Maybe you could use another network, the drawback is not as many people would be using that network. So the value might not be as high.seth plum said:
What you seem to be describing is some kind of force getting a squeeze on transactions off the back of cauliflower growers (and honey producers). Why should that happen when those forces are neither growing nor consuming any cauliflowers?kentaddick said:Right, @seth plum to use your cauliflower/honey analogy:
say you want to buy cauliflowers, to do that you’d have to use the cauliflower network - so you have to go to the cauliflower network and buy some cauliflowers. This network is made of various groups of cauliflower growers, and in order for you to be recognised as a cauliflower owner but I am buying cauliflower expressly because I am no a cauliflower owner they all have to see and acknowledge that you are a cauliflower owner so that it’s recorded on a ledger everyone can see so after I buy a cauliflower I am obliged in some way to tell the world I have a cauliflower, why? In order to do this do what, write it down in a book that I have bought a cauliflower?, this takes the cauliflower growers a little bit of work, so you have to pay them a little bit of the cauliflower you want in order to be recognised as a cauliflower owner why on earth would I have to be recognised as a cauliflower owner?. This is required for all transactions on the cauliflower network to save all this faff I would buy my cauliflowers elsewhere, like Lewisham market or somewhere.Say now you don’t want cauliflower, you want to create honey, because you have some utility for that honey. There’s no honey network, but that’s okay, because the cauliflower network will allow you to turn your cauliflower into honey by reconfiguring the dna of the cauliflower into honey eh? and still be able to use the cauliflower network. You still have to pay the cauliflower growers fees because you’re using that network I paid the cauliflower growers fee the first time I bought the cauliflower, I paid it because they took the trouble to grow it an harvest it, once that's done the cauliflower is mine free and clear.. Other people see your honey eh? again, honey that has been made out of cauliflowers by altering its dna? and want to buy your honey to use the utility for that honey you’ve created. That honey is now worth something isn't it worth a cauliflower? - as people want to trade their cauliflower for some honey. As a result that cauliflower also goes up in value I can understand my cauliflower goes up in value because there's a shortage, and mine is still good to eat, but see no other reason because more people are using the network. Now imagine other people are doing the same thing with the cauliflower and turning it into all sorts of stuff that has utilities or uses, maybe they might even reference the ledger of your honey in their utility, so that it essentially builds on what your honey does as i asked earlier why do I need to pay somebody for writing down in a ledger that I have just bought a cauliflower with pounds shillings and pence?Hell, you might even want to become a cauliflower grower yourself instead of all that and maintain the cauliflower network, so you can collect a share of the cauliflower fees.
So money is made by somebody somewhere putting a tax on cauliflowers?Now imagine that’s all done in code, and that’s essentially how the ethereum network works.0 -
You may think I am trolling, I have explained what I see as creating, buying and selling, and how actual money comes into it.kentaddick said:
Except, you know, all the purposes they mention in the video.seth plum said:
Is this something to do with cryptocurrency?Callumcafc said:Blockchain Expert Explains One Concept in 5 Levels of Difficulty | WIRED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYip_Vuv8J0
Sounds like upgraded technology that somebody expects you to pay for to use, like a vpn or a word programme or something.
I see no purpose for it.
Incidentally the lady in the video does not explain or define trade or trading in any detail, and that is the word the whole video seemingly depends on.
You’re wilfully trolling now, nobody is this genuinely dense.
You have described some kind of mysterious wonderland that gets in the way of the simplicity of what I have described, gets in the way for no good purpose.
Would you accept an email from me of 100 Sethcoins for your car? I bet you wouldn't.1 -
I don't have much of a clue what you're on about, but what I do know is that Bradford City are, and always will be, far more significant than wanky PSf-ingGcafcpolo said:
I can't see it working at all. Taking all emotions out of it and the risk it is to yet another football it's just not going to work for clubs of that size.AndyG said:@kentaddick
I really appreciate your explanations of all things crypto and now NFT's so this isnt a dig in anyway at either the technology or you mate but if your explanation of how Bradford fans can be buying their tickets it is a good job it isnt us as I think I would have to ask you to buy mine as I had know idea wtf you was on about lol
Huge clubs, I could see the use of NFTs as a huge revenue stream. Global fans across the world buying into it, sure. However, outside of the fans of Bradford / Bedford, whoever it is, who gives a shit? Realistically is some multi millionaire from the UAE or Singapore going to drop a load of money on something related to a largely insignificant club? Nope.
Now imagine it's PSG and they have a dedicated player cam for Messi. He scores the winning goal in the CL final. This cam provides a one off, never seen before angle of his movement & finish for said goal. Is someone going to drop a bucket load of money on it? I wouldn't as for me NFTs as they are now are a crock but absolutely it'd get snapped up.1 -
Wasting your time fella.kentaddick said:
No what I’m describing is literally the ethereum network and why ethereum (and other layer one cryptos) have value. In fact, you’ve highlighted exactly why there are other networks and cryptos, not just ethereum - why should you pay such high fees? Maybe you could use another network, the drawback is not as many people would be using that network. So the value might not be as high.seth plum said:
What you seem to be describing is some kind of force getting a squeeze on transactions off the back of cauliflower growers (and honey producers). Why should that happen when those forces are neither growing nor consuming any cauliflowers?kentaddick said:Right, @seth plum to use your cauliflower/honey analogy:
say you want to buy cauliflowers, to do that you’d have to use the cauliflower network - so you have to go to the cauliflower network and buy some cauliflowers. This network is made of various groups of cauliflower growers, and in order for you to be recognised as a cauliflower owner but I am buying cauliflower expressly because I am no a cauliflower owner they all have to see and acknowledge that you are a cauliflower owner so that it’s recorded on a ledger everyone can see so after I buy a cauliflower I am obliged in some way to tell the world I have a cauliflower, why? In order to do this do what, write it down in a book that I have bought a cauliflower?, this takes the cauliflower growers a little bit of work, so you have to pay them a little bit of the cauliflower you want in order to be recognised as a cauliflower owner why on earth would I have to be recognised as a cauliflower owner?. This is required for all transactions on the cauliflower network to save all this faff I would buy my cauliflowers elsewhere, like Lewisham market or somewhere.Say now you don’t want cauliflower, you want to create honey, because you have some utility for that honey. There’s no honey network, but that’s okay, because the cauliflower network will allow you to turn your cauliflower into honey by reconfiguring the dna of the cauliflower into honey eh? and still be able to use the cauliflower network. You still have to pay the cauliflower growers fees because you’re using that network I paid the cauliflower growers fee the first time I bought the cauliflower, I paid it because they took the trouble to grow it an harvest it, once that's done the cauliflower is mine free and clear.. Other people see your honey eh? again, honey that has been made out of cauliflowers by altering its dna? and want to buy your honey to use the utility for that honey you’ve created. That honey is now worth something isn't it worth a cauliflower? - as people want to trade their cauliflower for some honey. As a result that cauliflower also goes up in value I can understand my cauliflower goes up in value because there's a shortage, and mine is still good to eat, but see no other reason because more people are using the network. Now imagine other people are doing the same thing with the cauliflower and turning it into all sorts of stuff that has utilities or uses, maybe they might even reference the ledger of your honey in their utility, so that it essentially builds on what your honey does as i asked earlier why do I need to pay somebody for writing down in a ledger that I have just bought a cauliflower with pounds shillings and pence?Hell, you might even want to become a cauliflower grower yourself instead of all that and maintain the cauliflower network, so you can collect a share of the cauliflower fees.
So money is made by somebody somewhere putting a tax on cauliflowers?Now imagine that’s all done in code, and that’s essentially how the ethereum network works.0 -
Why would anybody want to use an ethereum network (whatever that is) for anything?kentaddick said:
No what I’m describing is literally the ethereum network and why ethereum (and other layer one cryptos) have value. In fact, you’ve highlighted exactly why there are other networks and cryptos, not just ethereum - why should you pay such high fees? Maybe you could use another network, the drawback is not as many people would be using that network. So the value might not be as high.seth plum said:
What you seem to be describing is some kind of force getting a squeeze on transactions off the back of cauliflower growers (and honey producers). Why should that happen when those forces are neither growing nor consuming any cauliflowers?kentaddick said:Right, @seth plum to use your cauliflower/honey analogy:
say you want to buy cauliflowers, to do that you’d have to use the cauliflower network - so you have to go to the cauliflower network and buy some cauliflowers. This network is made of various groups of cauliflower growers, and in order for you to be recognised as a cauliflower owner but I am buying cauliflower expressly because I am no a cauliflower owner they all have to see and acknowledge that you are a cauliflower owner so that it’s recorded on a ledger everyone can see so after I buy a cauliflower I am obliged in some way to tell the world I have a cauliflower, why? In order to do this do what, write it down in a book that I have bought a cauliflower?, this takes the cauliflower growers a little bit of work, so you have to pay them a little bit of the cauliflower you want in order to be recognised as a cauliflower owner why on earth would I have to be recognised as a cauliflower owner?. This is required for all transactions on the cauliflower network to save all this faff I would buy my cauliflowers elsewhere, like Lewisham market or somewhere.Say now you don’t want cauliflower, you want to create honey, because you have some utility for that honey. There’s no honey network, but that’s okay, because the cauliflower network will allow you to turn your cauliflower into honey by reconfiguring the dna of the cauliflower into honey eh? and still be able to use the cauliflower network. You still have to pay the cauliflower growers fees because you’re using that network I paid the cauliflower growers fee the first time I bought the cauliflower, I paid it because they took the trouble to grow it an harvest it, once that's done the cauliflower is mine free and clear.. Other people see your honey eh? again, honey that has been made out of cauliflowers by altering its dna? and want to buy your honey to use the utility for that honey you’ve created. That honey is now worth something isn't it worth a cauliflower? - as people want to trade their cauliflower for some honey. As a result that cauliflower also goes up in value I can understand my cauliflower goes up in value because there's a shortage, and mine is still good to eat, but see no other reason because more people are using the network. Now imagine other people are doing the same thing with the cauliflower and turning it into all sorts of stuff that has utilities or uses, maybe they might even reference the ledger of your honey in their utility, so that it essentially builds on what your honey does as i asked earlier why do I need to pay somebody for writing down in a ledger that I have just bought a cauliflower with pounds shillings and pence?Hell, you might even want to become a cauliflower grower yourself instead of all that and maintain the cauliflower network, so you can collect a share of the cauliflower fees.
So money is made by somebody somewhere putting a tax on cauliflowers?Now imagine that’s all done in code, and that’s essentially how the ethereum network works.
A base principle is I go to the person down the road, and fix their roof in exchange for a basket of apples they have grown.
Hey presto they have an actual thing, and I have an actual thing.
Take that scenario as a starting point and explain where the imaginary currencies fit in.1 -
@kentaddick the whole point of analogies is that they're supposed to enable you to use your existing knowledge to help you understand unfamiliar scenarios. Go back and read that with the mindset of someone who knows nothing about crypto, but does know a little about cauliflowers and honey, such as you can't convert the DNA of cauliflowers into honey. It's not enlightening, it just sounds mental.kentaddick said:
6 -
But it isn’t simple, under the bonnet, is it? You have to get money from the bank, who’s invested your money, who then have to have the liquidity to pay your cauliflower salesman through a transfer provided by some one like visa or MasterCard a currency that’s managed by a nation state and their central bank who are literally printing new bits of this currency everyday who are then taxing the transaction. Blockchain networks eliminate these middle men who are taking their cut with mathematics, you would understand this, if you watched the video @Callumcafc posted, but you haven’t.seth plum said:
You may think I am trolling, I have explained what I see as creating, buying and selling, and how actual money comes into it.kentaddick said:
Except, you know, all the purposes they mention in the video.seth plum said:
Is this something to do with cryptocurrency?Callumcafc said:Blockchain Expert Explains One Concept in 5 Levels of Difficulty | WIRED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYip_Vuv8J0
Sounds like upgraded technology that somebody expects you to pay for to use, like a vpn or a word programme or something.
I see no purpose for it.
Incidentally the lady in the video does not explain or define trade or trading in any detail, and that is the word the whole video seemingly depends on.
You’re wilfully trolling now, nobody is this genuinely dense.
You have described some kind of mysterious wonderland that gets in the way of the simplicity of what I have described, gets in the way for no good purpose.
Would you accept an email from me of 100 Sethcoins for your car? I bet you wouldn't.aliwibble said:
@kentaddick the whole point of analogies is that they're supposed to enable you to use your existing knowledge to help you understand unfamiliar scenarios. Go back and read that with the mindset of someone who knows nothing about crypto, but does know a little about cauliflowers and honey, such as you can't convert the DNA of cauliflowers into honey. It's not enlightening, it just sounds mental.kentaddick said:
I established it was an insane analogy - i was literally just using seth’s insane and difficult to decipher analogy.Yes, if you had the technology, you could technically change the dna of a cauliflower to honey. In this instance though the cauliflower is code, so is the honey. So it is obviously possible.0 -
Right, so you create a contract in which once the work is completed, you receive the basket of apples. Usually you’d have to go to lawyers to draw up a contract, contact a bank and set up an escrow for the apples, or you’re relying on your client to supply the apples to you, through a delivery service or delivered by them themselves. If you do the work and don’t receive the apples (which any freelancer will tell you is a possibility) you’ll call the police, or take the case to small claims court to get your apples. Using a blockchain network like ethereum this can all be done much more efficiently in code with no middle men. The apples you want will be held in a smart contract that will release the apples to you once work has been seen to be completed. Not receiving the apples upon completion or receiving the apples before you’ve completed work is an impossibility - because it’s written in the code of the smart contract. You’ve now replaced all the middle men who are ensuring trust with code - which is much more efficient. All that this takes is for you to pay a “gas” fee to the network who are witnessing your transaction and smart contract by paying in ETH tokens.seth plum said:
Why would anybody want to use an ethereum network (whatever that is) for anything?kentaddick said:
No what I’m describing is literally the ethereum network and why ethereum (and other layer one cryptos) have value. In fact, you’ve highlighted exactly why there are other networks and cryptos, not just ethereum - why should you pay such high fees? Maybe you could use another network, the drawback is not as many people would be using that network. So the value might not be as high.seth plum said:
What you seem to be describing is some kind of force getting a squeeze on transactions off the back of cauliflower growers (and honey producers). Why should that happen when those forces are neither growing nor consuming any cauliflowers?kentaddick said:Right, @seth plum to use your cauliflower/honey analogy:
say you want to buy cauliflowers, to do that you’d have to use the cauliflower network - so you have to go to the cauliflower network and buy some cauliflowers. This network is made of various groups of cauliflower growers, and in order for you to be recognised as a cauliflower owner but I am buying cauliflower expressly because I am no a cauliflower owner they all have to see and acknowledge that you are a cauliflower owner so that it’s recorded on a ledger everyone can see so after I buy a cauliflower I am obliged in some way to tell the world I have a cauliflower, why? In order to do this do what, write it down in a book that I have bought a cauliflower?, this takes the cauliflower growers a little bit of work, so you have to pay them a little bit of the cauliflower you want in order to be recognised as a cauliflower owner why on earth would I have to be recognised as a cauliflower owner?. This is required for all transactions on the cauliflower network to save all this faff I would buy my cauliflowers elsewhere, like Lewisham market or somewhere.Say now you don’t want cauliflower, you want to create honey, because you have some utility for that honey. There’s no honey network, but that’s okay, because the cauliflower network will allow you to turn your cauliflower into honey by reconfiguring the dna of the cauliflower into honey eh? and still be able to use the cauliflower network. You still have to pay the cauliflower growers fees because you’re using that network I paid the cauliflower growers fee the first time I bought the cauliflower, I paid it because they took the trouble to grow it an harvest it, once that's done the cauliflower is mine free and clear.. Other people see your honey eh? again, honey that has been made out of cauliflowers by altering its dna? and want to buy your honey to use the utility for that honey you’ve created. That honey is now worth something isn't it worth a cauliflower? - as people want to trade their cauliflower for some honey. As a result that cauliflower also goes up in value I can understand my cauliflower goes up in value because there's a shortage, and mine is still good to eat, but see no other reason because more people are using the network. Now imagine other people are doing the same thing with the cauliflower and turning it into all sorts of stuff that has utilities or uses, maybe they might even reference the ledger of your honey in their utility, so that it essentially builds on what your honey does as i asked earlier why do I need to pay somebody for writing down in a ledger that I have just bought a cauliflower with pounds shillings and pence?Hell, you might even want to become a cauliflower grower yourself instead of all that and maintain the cauliflower network, so you can collect a share of the cauliflower fees.
So money is made by somebody somewhere putting a tax on cauliflowers?Now imagine that’s all done in code, and that’s essentially how the ethereum network works.
A base principle is I go to the person down the road, and fix their roof in exchange for a basket of apples they have grown.
Hey presto they have an actual thing, and I have an actual thing.
Take that scenario as a starting point and explain where the imaginary currencies fit in.The more ETH tokens you have, the more you can use the network and more complex transactions you can make. The network is maintained by “miners” who witness the transaction. They are rewarded for witnessing these transactions with the “gas” fee you’ve paid, plus new ethereum tokens that they have been awarded for maintaining the network.The network cannot go down, because it’s maintained by thousands of completely separate computers. Nobody has a controlling stake in the network, so it is completely decentralised, not run by a company or nation state.0 -
I did watch the video though. I commented on it. I commented on the constant use of the word 'trade' without it being defined.kentaddick said:
But it isn’t simple, under the bonnet, is it? You have to get money from the bank, who’s invested your money, who then have to have the liquidity to pay your cauliflower salesman through a transfer provided by some one like visa or MasterCard a currency that’s managed by a nation state and their central bank who are literally printing new bits of this currency everyday who are then taxing the transaction. Blockchain networks eliminate these middle men who are taking their cut with mathematics, you would understand this, if you watched the video @Callumcafc posted, but you haven’t.seth plum said:
You may think I am trolling, I have explained what I see as creating, buying and selling, and how actual money comes into it.kentaddick said:
Except, you know, all the purposes they mention in the video.seth plum said:
Is this something to do with cryptocurrency?Callumcafc said:Blockchain Expert Explains One Concept in 5 Levels of Difficulty | WIRED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYip_Vuv8J0
Sounds like upgraded technology that somebody expects you to pay for to use, like a vpn or a word programme or something.
I see no purpose for it.
Incidentally the lady in the video does not explain or define trade or trading in any detail, and that is the word the whole video seemingly depends on.
You’re wilfully trolling now, nobody is this genuinely dense.
You have described some kind of mysterious wonderland that gets in the way of the simplicity of what I have described, gets in the way for no good purpose.
Would you accept an email from me of 100 Sethcoins for your car? I bet you wouldn't.aliwibble said:
@kentaddick the whole point of analogies is that they're supposed to enable you to use your existing knowledge to help you understand unfamiliar scenarios. Go back and read that with the mindset of someone who knows nothing about crypto, but does know a little about cauliflowers and honey, such as you can't convert the DNA of cauliflowers into honey. It's not enlightening, it just sounds mental.kentaddick said:
I established it was an insane analogy - i was literally just using seth’s insane and difficult to decipher analogy.Yes, if you had the technology, you could technically change the dna of a cauliflower to honey. In this instance though the cauliflower is code, so is the honey. So it is obviously possible.
So yes I watched the video and to me it was gobbledegook.
Now your expected response to that comment is that I am too dense or too trolling to understand what elite intellectuals (like you?) find straightforward.
If I went to Lewisham market and bought a cauliflower with money (yes sterling) I have earned from the sweat of my brow then that 'trade' (is that a trade?) is comprehensible because I was paid in sterling for my initial sweat of the brow work.
You will accuse me of being dense if I tell you I can't see how cryptocurrency fits into all that.
To me cryptocurrency is totally based on faith, the same as the Dutch people of years ago decided to have faith in Tulips as currency.
Here is something for you to read that mentions cryptocurrencies, if you take the trouble to read it you will see why I, and many other incredibly stupid people like me, have doubts. Not trolling, but pushing back by enquiring.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/tulipmania.asp
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