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Peng Shuai

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  • soapboxsam
    soapboxsam Posts: 23,229
    Peng Shuai is a professional tennis player and a member of the WTA and the stance they have taken is admirable.

    Some things are more important than money, like the freedom to have a voice which we, even in this Quirky Country of the UK have.  Caring for one of your own seems like a natural human quality and in 2021 no super power like China, Russia or even the USA should be able to use subterfuge to Silence an individual.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    China really is an evil entity and danger to world stability. Oppressive and corrupt. One day just as with the USSR the people will have enough and it will tumble and fall. A way off yet I think but it will happen. The sooner the better.
    You are right in describing actions of the Chinese regime as evil. Certainly oppressive and corrupt. Whether China is any more a danger to world stability than any other superpower is slightly less clear.

    In the case of Peng Shuai I fear she will never feel free to say more, because of pressure on her and her family and associates.

    The thing about the Chinese people having enough and becoming liberated in some way, comes up against the reality that the country has never had much of a libertarian system in the past that the people can reference. There may be a notion that a 'new' China would 'obviously' want to copy one or other versions of traditional Western Democracy, but I am not so sure about that.
    In a country with such an eye-wateringly huge population one of the main drivers people have is survival.
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    seth plum said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    China really is an evil entity and danger to world stability. Oppressive and corrupt. One day just as with the USSR the people will have enough and it will tumble and fall. A way off yet I think but it will happen. The sooner the better.
    You are right in describing actions of the Chinese regime as evil. Certainly oppressive and corrupt. Whether China is any more a danger to world stability than any other superpower is slightly less clear.

    In the case of Peng Shuai I fear she will never feel free to say more, because of pressure on her and her family and associates.

    The thing about the Chinese people having enough and becoming liberated in some way, comes up against the reality that the country has never had much of a libertarian system in the past that the people can reference. There may be a notion that a 'new' China would 'obviously' want to copy one or other versions of traditional Western Democracy, but I am not so sure about that.
    In a country with such an eye-wateringly huge population one of the main drivers people have is survival.
    I think we’re straying too far into politics for this thread seth. 
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    Oh.

  • SantaClaus
    SantaClaus Posts: 7,651
    edited December 2021
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    seth plum said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    China really is an evil entity and danger to world stability. Oppressive and corrupt. One day just as with the USSR the people will have enough and it will tumble and fall. A way off yet I think but it will happen. The sooner the better.
    You are right in describing actions of the Chinese regime as evil. Certainly oppressive and corrupt. Whether China is any more a danger to world stability than any other superpower is slightly less clear.

    In the case of Peng Shuai I fear she will never feel free to say more, because of pressure on her and her family and associates.

    The thing about the Chinese people having enough and becoming liberated in some way, comes up against the reality that the country has never had much of a libertarian system in the past that the people can reference. There may be a notion that a 'new' China would 'obviously' want to copy one or other versions of traditional Western Democracy, but I am not so sure about that.
    In a country with such an eye-wateringly huge population one of the main drivers people have is survival.
    I think we’re straying too far into politics for this thread seth. 
    That's a bit unfair on Seth. I might disagree with Seth regarding the relative threats posed by China and America but I thought it was a reasonable post.
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    SantaClaus said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    seth plum said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    China really is an evil entity and danger to world stability. Oppressive and corrupt. One day just as with the USSR the people will have enough and it will tumble and fall. A way off yet I think but it will happen. The sooner the better.
    You are right in describing actions of the Chinese regime as evil. Certainly oppressive and corrupt. Whether China is any more a danger to world stability than any other superpower is slightly less clear.

    In the case of Peng Shuai I fear she will never feel free to say more, because of pressure on her and her family and associates.

    The thing about the Chinese people having enough and becoming liberated in some way, comes up against the reality that the country has never had much of a libertarian system in the past that the people can reference. There may be a notion that a 'new' China would 'obviously' want to copy one or other versions of traditional Western Democracy, but I am not so sure about that.
    In a country with such an eye-wateringly huge population one of the main drivers people have is survival.
    I think we’re straying too far into politics for this thread seth. 
    That's a bit unfair on Seth. I thought it was a reasonable post.
    So do I and wanted to respond but we’re straying ?
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 35,995
    SuedeAdidas said:
    Kind of puts the ATP in a tricky situation for the men's game....... do they follow suit?
    I think they have to really especially given the world number 1 has come out and backed the WTA's decision
  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 26,835
    It’s hard to separate politics from this issue though. 
  • AddicksAddict
    AddicksAddict Posts: 15,780
    SuedeAdidas said:
    Kind of puts the ATP in a tricky situation for the men's game....... do they follow suit?
    You’d hope so but I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting. 
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,116
    It doesn’t happen often, but on this issue I agree with Seth 100%, I’ve spent the majority of my adult life here and feel the idea that people will have ‘had enough’ anytime soon is very wide of the mark.

    Most people, whilst having some valid complaints on certain issues, are overwhelmingly happy with the progress the country has made. Obviously part of that is down to, erm, certain aspects of the edu. Cation system, but that doesn’t change the result. 
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  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    It doesn’t happen often, but on this issue I agree with Seth 100%, I’ve spent the majority of my adult life here and feel the idea that people will have ‘had enough’ anytime soon is very wide of the mark.

    Most people, whilst having some valid complaints on certain issues, are overwhelmingly happy with the progress the country has made. Obviously part of that is down to, erm, certain aspects of the edu. Cation system, but that doesn’t change the result. 
    If you’re content with subjugation, oppression and tyranny then all’s well and good. Personally I find any regime like China an abomination. I actually said I didn’t see the population having had enough any time soon but I guarantee eventually they will. 
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619

    Did I mention corruption ?
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,116
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    It doesn’t happen often, but on this issue I agree with Seth 100%, I’ve spent the majority of my adult life here and feel the idea that people will have ‘had enough’ anytime soon is very wide of the mark.

    Most people, whilst having some valid complaints on certain issues, are overwhelmingly happy with the progress the country has made. Obviously part of that is down to, erm, certain aspects of the edu. Cation system, but that doesn’t change the result. 
    If you’re content with subjugation, oppression and tyranny then all’s well and good. Personally I find any regime like China an abomination. I actually said I didn’t see the population having had enough any time soon but I guarantee eventually they will. 
    What if the vast majority are oblivious to the reality of the situation? 
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    It doesn’t happen often, but on this issue I agree with Seth 100%, I’ve spent the majority of my adult life here and feel the idea that people will have ‘had enough’ anytime soon is very wide of the mark.

    Most people, whilst having some valid complaints on certain issues, are overwhelmingly happy with the progress the country has made. Obviously part of that is down to, erm, certain aspects of the edu. Cation system, but that doesn’t change the result. 
    Although ive literally only spent 2 days of my life in China and as a tourist, Shanghai specifically (which is a very westernised city), I got the exact same vibe. The country has been utterly transformed by the CCP, why would they want to change it? But like all communist regimes, they’re completely paranoid and corrupt. The only way the ccp would change tact is under mass international pressure. 
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,116
    kentaddick said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    It doesn’t happen often, but on this issue I agree with Seth 100%, I’ve spent the majority of my adult life here and feel the idea that people will have ‘had enough’ anytime soon is very wide of the mark.

    Most people, whilst having some valid complaints on certain issues, are overwhelmingly happy with the progress the country has made. Obviously part of that is down to, erm, certain aspects of the edu. Cation system, but that doesn’t change the result. 
    Although ive literally only spent 2 days of my life in China and as a tourist, Shanghai specifically (which is a very westernised city), I got the exact same vibe. The country has been utterly transformed by the CCP, why would they want to change it? But like all communist regimes, they’re completely paranoid and corrupt. The only way the ccp would change tact is under mass international pressure. 
    The only communist thing is the name.
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    It doesn’t happen often, but on this issue I agree with Seth 100%, I’ve spent the majority of my adult life here and feel the idea that people will have ‘had enough’ anytime soon is very wide of the mark.

    Most people, whilst having some valid complaints on certain issues, are overwhelmingly happy with the progress the country has made. Obviously part of that is down to, erm, certain aspects of the edu. Cation system, but that doesn’t change the result. 
    If you’re content with subjugation, oppression and tyranny then all’s well and good. Personally I find any regime like China an abomination. I actually said I didn’t see the population having had enough any time soon but I guarantee eventually they will. 
    What if the vast majority are oblivious to the reality of the situation? 
    China can’t hide the truth and reality forever. Eventually people will look around and realise something is wrong. It’s happened all around the world to oppressive regimes for hundreds of years. Eventually The Chinese Communist Party will fall. Be a tragedy if it didn’t.
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,116
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    It doesn’t happen often, but on this issue I agree with Seth 100%, I’ve spent the majority of my adult life here and feel the idea that people will have ‘had enough’ anytime soon is very wide of the mark.

    Most people, whilst having some valid complaints on certain issues, are overwhelmingly happy with the progress the country has made. Obviously part of that is down to, erm, certain aspects of the edu. Cation system, but that doesn’t change the result. 
    If you’re content with subjugation, oppression and tyranny then all’s well and good. Personally I find any regime like China an abomination. I actually said I didn’t see the population having had enough any time soon but I guarantee eventually they will. 
    What if the vast majority are oblivious to the reality of the situation? 
    China can’t hide the truth and reality forever. Eventually people will look around and realise something is wrong. It’s happened all around the world to oppressive regimes for hundreds of years. Eventually The Chinese Communist Party will fall. Be a tragedy if it didn’t.
    I doubt it’ll be in our lifetimes, things are too good for too many here, but we’re seriously straying from the original topic. 
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,840
    The Soviet Union didn't collapse because it was authoritarian and undemocratic, it collapsed because it was an economic and technological basket case

    China is very different. While there are issues with the property sector, it's an economic AND technological power house, with strategic investments in many developing countries. I can't see the regime going away anytime soon.
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    killerandflash said:
    The Soviet Union didn't collapse because it was authoritarian and undemocratic, it collapsed because it was an economic and technological basket case

    China is very different. While there are issues with the property sector, it's an economic AND technological power house, with strategic investments in many developing countries. I can't see the regime going away anytime soon.
    Agree. It will be the knock on the door at three in the morning taking your daughter away for saying the President has a bogey up his nose that will slowly eat away at the regime. I’m convinced it will happen. Agree not soon but eventually.
  • SantaClaus
    SantaClaus Posts: 7,651
    edited December 2021
    Totalitarian regimes also collapse because the army and other security services eventually refuse to use violence against their fellow countrymen. With the advent of autonomous military drones, robots and advances in AI that won't be a problem for much longer. We're on the threshold of a dystopian future in that regard.
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  • Todds_right_hook
    Todds_right_hook Posts: 10,878
    soapboxsam said:
    Peng Shuai is a professional tennis player and a member of the WTA and the stance they have taken is admirable.

    Some things are more important than money, like the freedom to have a voice which we, even in this Quirky Country of the UK have.  Caring for one of your own seems like a natural human quality and in 2021 no super power like China, Russia or even the USA should be able to use subterfuge to Silence an individual.
    Or protect a member of its royal family against criminal allegations 
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,761
    kentaddick said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    It doesn’t happen often, but on this issue I agree with Seth 100%, I’ve spent the majority of my adult life here and feel the idea that people will have ‘had enough’ anytime soon is very wide of the mark.

    Most people, whilst having some valid complaints on certain issues, are overwhelmingly happy with the progress the country has made. Obviously part of that is down to, erm, certain aspects of the edu. Cation system, but that doesn’t change the result. 
    Although ive literally only spent 2 days of my life in China and as a tourist, Shanghai specifically (which is a very westernised city), I got the exact same vibe. The country has been utterly transformed by the CCP, why would they want to change it? But like all communist regimes, they’re completely paranoid and corrupt. The only way the ccp would change tact is under mass international pressure. 
    I thank my lucky stars each and every day that we don't live in a country where those in government dictate that the population should do as they say and not as they do. 
  • Raith_C_Chattonell
    Raith_C_Chattonell Posts: 5,674
    Chinese authorities need to send a message to their 1.4 billion people.  Think twice before you cross us, toe the party line.  I'd be very surprised if they back down to the WTA.

    Putin sends the same message every time he takes out a former resident on foreign soil.  He doesn't give a toss for the outrage caused, he does care about keeping control.  
  • Billy_Mix
    Billy_Mix Posts: 2,707
    SuedeAdidas said:
    Kind of puts the ATP in a tricky situation for the men's game....... do they follow suit?
    There's no suggestion, yet, that they will.  ATP's finances would be changed out of all recognition by detaching from China.  Their silence on the matter is telling.  Disappointing how little comment has been forthcoming from high profile male players, it's not as if the men's game lacks opinionated individuals.

    The IOC has again today made appeasing conciliatory noises about having had "another video meeting with Peng".  The facts of this not yet verified by a credible or independent source.  The IOC and China are focussed on the February Winter Olympics & Paralympics going ahead  in Beijing.  Before Peng was silenced the big Beijing 2022 issue was Covid and travel, but with such a stark reminder of the CCP regime's brutality it will be interesting to see how many athletes and national OC's take a stand.

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