....and even if there isn't, it's hardly a good comparison is it?
I think it is the comparison between powerful men and vulnerable young people that is appropriate. Like what happened to Nadia Comaneci, or Simone Biles and many others. Would the issue be about male power more than nationality?
I think the most concerning issue is the censorship and the fact that she has disappeared - I'm sure you know that.
....and even if there isn't, it's hardly a good comparison is it?
I think it is the comparison between powerful men and vulnerable young people that is appropriate. Like what happened to Nadia Comaneci, or Simone Biles and many others. Would the issue be about male power more than nationality?
No, because in the west the accuser (like Simone Biles) won't disappear in the middle of the night, and be taken for re-education
Is that what’s happened in this case? ’The West’ covers a lot of places.
....and even if there isn't, it's hardly a good comparison is it?
I think it is the comparison between powerful men and vulnerable young people that is appropriate. Like what happened to Nadia Comaneci, or Simone Biles and many others. Would the issue be about male power more than nationality?
I think the most concerning issue is the censorship and the fact that she has disappeared - I'm sure you know that.
Of course her disappearance and any cover up by a section of the authorities is of immediate concern. In the background is the risk that this incident will be conflated into general anti Chinese predjudice.
To be fair some accusers in the West have had to make public statements about not being suicidal when they seek justice against powerful men. What's worse is that nobody thinks they're being paranoid to do so.
....and even if there isn't, it's hardly a good comparison is it?
I think it is the comparison between powerful men and vulnerable young people that is appropriate. Like what happened to Nadia Comaneci, or Simone Biles and many others. Would the issue be about male power more than nationality?
I think the most concerning issue is the censorship and the fact that she has disappeared - I'm sure you know that.
Of course her disappearance and any cover up by a section of the authorities is of immediate concern. In the background is the risk that this incident will be conflated into general anti Chinese predjudice.
People are attacking the Chinese government
The victim is a Chinese person
When China bullies Taiwan or Hong Kong, they are bullying ethnically Chinese people
Chinese ethnicity is a complex concept. Especially when considering that the Chinese state claims authority over 1.4 billion people with diverse languages and cultural norms. The dominant group are the Hans.
....and even if there isn't, it's hardly a good comparison is it?
I think it is the comparison between powerful men and vulnerable young people that is appropriate. Like what happened to Nadia Comaneci, or Simone Biles and many others. Would the issue be about male power more than nationality?
I think the most concerning issue is the censorship and the fact that she has disappeared - I'm sure you know that.
Of course her disappearance and any cover up by a section of the authorities is of immediate concern. In the background is the risk that this incident will be conflated into general anti Chinese predjudice.
I don't think anyone is coming anywhere close to doing that, thankfully
does anything the despotic Chinese government does to it's people still shock us? .. criticism and sanctions run off the back of these robotic like rulers like water from a slanted roof. It's great that famous non political people are still prepared to speak out to show the rest of the world what is really going on, let's hope against hope that there might be some miniscule effect
....and even if there isn't, it's hardly a good comparison is it?
I think it is the comparison between powerful men and vulnerable young people that is appropriate. Like what happened to Nadia Comaneci, or Simone Biles and many others. Would the issue be about male power more than nationality?
No, because in the west the accuser (like Simone Biles) won't disappear in the middle of the night, and be taken for re-education
In the west, people who whistleblow government atrocities end up living happily ever after with no repercussions
....and even if there isn't, it's hardly a good comparison is it?
I think it is the comparison between powerful men and vulnerable young people that is appropriate. Like what happened to Nadia Comaneci, or Simone Biles and many others. Would the issue be about male power more than nationality?
No, because in the west the accuser (like Simone Biles) won't disappear in the middle of the night, and be taken for re-education
In the west, people who whistleblow government atrocities end up living happily ever after with no repercussions
good point .. it's pretty undeniable that no government anywhere likes to be shown up as corrupt or inefficient by a whistleblower, especially perhaps in the UK where it's all too easy to fall foul of the Official Secrets Acts
The WTA's response is surprising and pleasing Hearing anything remotely like that from IOC would be truly staggering, they're as addicted to the gravy train and as tone deaf as Blatter-era FIFA
....and even if there isn't, it's hardly a good comparison is it?
I think it is the comparison between powerful men and vulnerable young people that is appropriate. Like what happened to Nadia Comaneci, or Simone Biles and many others. Would the issue be about male power more than nationality?
No, because in the west the accuser (like Simone Biles) won't disappear in the middle of the night, and be taken for re-education
In the west, people who whistleblow government atrocities end up living happily ever after with no repercussions
Think you're comparing people blowing state secrets in the West, to people voicing an opinion in China.
When did the last Eurpean / American journalist, celebrity or sports star go missing for voicing an option?
....and even if there isn't, it's hardly a good comparison is it?
I think it is the comparison between powerful men and vulnerable young people that is appropriate. Like what happened to Nadia Comaneci, or Simone Biles and many others. Would the issue be about male power more than nationality?
No, because in the west the accuser (like Simone Biles) won't disappear in the middle of the night, and be taken for re-education
In the west, people who whistleblow government atrocities end up living happily ever after with no repercussions
Think you're comparing people blowing state secrets in the West, to people voicing an opinion in China.
When did the last Eurpean / American journalist, celebrity or sports star go missing for voicing an option?
....and even if there isn't, it's hardly a good comparison is it?
I think it is the comparison between powerful men and vulnerable young people that is appropriate. Like what happened to Nadia Comaneci, or Simone Biles and many others. Would the issue be about male power more than nationality?
No, because in the west the accuser (like Simone Biles) won't disappear in the middle of the night, and be taken for re-education
In the west, people who whistleblow government atrocities end up living happily ever after with no repercussions
Think you're comparing people blowing state secrets in the West, to people voicing an opinion in China.
When did the last Eurpean / American journalist, celebrity or sports star go missing for voicing an option?
She wasn’t “voicing an opinion”
exactly .. she accused a high ranking politician (ex politician ?) of sexual assault .. and voicing an opinion is not whistleblowing .. stating a highly embarrassing fact or situation about 'the state', a major company / corporation or a 'celebrity'/'high ranking' person which would sooner be kept hidden right under the carpet is blowing the whistle
....and even if there isn't, it's hardly a good comparison is it?
I think it is the comparison between powerful men and vulnerable young people that is appropriate. Like what happened to Nadia Comaneci, or Simone Biles and many others. Would the issue be about male power more than nationality?
No, because in the west the accuser (like Simone Biles) won't disappear in the middle of the night, and be taken for re-education
In the west, people who whistleblow government atrocities end up living happily ever after with no repercussions
Think you're comparing people blowing state secrets in the West, to people voicing an opinion in China.
When did the last Eurpean / American journalist, celebrity or sports star go missing for voicing an option?
I’m well aware China is a cut above in terms of silencing the population, I’m just pointing out that the West is perfectly capable of committing their own crimes in the pursuit of maintaining their own power.
The US and UK aren’t as nonchalant as China in terms of killing people just for speaking out, so it’s harder to point to blatant murders as it’s so easily covered up. Jeffery Epstein is the most recent example of false suicide, but there are others where the government looks like they had a part to play. Who knows what would have happened to Snowden or Assange if they stayed in the US?
There’s also declassified plans like Operation Northwoods where the CIA planned to murder American civilians in order to justify a war with Cuba. Long story short, people will do whatever is necessary to maintain power, China aren’t unique in that respect.
....and even if there isn't, it's hardly a good comparison is it?
I think it is the comparison between powerful men and vulnerable young people that is appropriate. Like what happened to Nadia Comaneci, or Simone Biles and many others. Would the issue be about male power more than nationality?
No, because in the west the accuser (like Simone Biles) won't disappear in the middle of the night, and be taken for re-education
In the west, people who whistleblow government atrocities end up living happily ever after with no repercussions
Think you're comparing people blowing state secrets in the West, to people voicing an opinion in China.
When did the last Eurpean / American journalist, celebrity or sports star go missing for voicing an option?
I’m well aware China is a cut above in terms of silencing the population, I’m just pointing out that the West is perfectly capable of committing their own crimes in the pursuit of maintaining their own power.
The US and UK aren’t as nonchalant as China in terms of killing people just for speaking out, so it’s harder to point to blatant murders as it’s so easily covered up. Jeffery Epstein is the most recent example of false suicide, but there are others where the government looks like they had a part to play. Who knows what would have happened to Snowden or Assange if they stayed in the US?
There’s also declassified plans like Operation Northwoods where the CIA planned to murder American civilians in order to justify a war with Cuba. Long story short, people will do whatever is necessary to maintain power, China aren’t unique in that respect.
People should quite rightly cast aspersions about the Chinese authorities. There are many areas of life in China controlled by the Chinese authorities that are quite frankly appalling. The accusation of assault is against the deputy leader. In the west there are similar accusations against well known figures. All need confronting. There needs to be an equality of reaction towards all such cases. Given the distorted reaction towards some other areas of Chinese life, one must hope forensic realism triumphs over distorted prejudice, so as ordinary Chinese people are not tarred with the same brush as their corrupt leaders.
....and even if there isn't, it's hardly a good comparison is it?
I think it is the comparison between powerful men and vulnerable young people that is appropriate. Like what happened to Nadia Comaneci, or Simone Biles and many others. Would the issue be about male power more than nationality?
No, because in the west the accuser (like Simone Biles) won't disappear in the middle of the night, and be taken for re-education
In the west, people who whistleblow government atrocities end up living happily ever after with no repercussions
Think you're comparing people blowing state secrets in the West, to people voicing an opinion in China.
When did the last Eurpean / American journalist, celebrity or sports star go missing for voicing an option?
She wasn’t “voicing an opinion”
I weren't referring to her specifically, just the general state of affairs in one part of the world, versus that in another as far as civil liberty is concerned.
Conflating the nonce in Buck House with the situation with this young girl is a gross false equivalence. Andrew's accuser has certainly not disappeared, quite the opposite as she has been given a platform to speak either directly or through her lawyers and he has been pretty much vilified by the media. Neither of which would be tolerated by the Chinese authorities in a similar scenario, as would appear to be the case here.
Criticising the Chinese regime in relation to their human rights record IS NOT RACIST and is not directed to or at the Chinese people, who have my sympathy when it comes to their lack of freedom.
Nobody on this thread as far as I can tell has been racist towards the Chinese people. Call it 'Regimist' if you like, not racist.
Conflating the nonce in Buck House with the situation with this young girl is a gross false equivalence. Andrew's accuser has certainly not disappeared, quite the opposite as she has been given a platform to speak either directly or through her lawyers and he has been pretty much vilified by the media. Neither of which would be tolerated by the Chinese authorities in a similar scenario, as would appear to be the case here.
Criticising the Chinese regime in relation to their human rights record IS NOT RACIST and is not directed to or at the Chinese people, who have my sympathy when it comes to their lack of freedom.
Nobody on this thread as far as I can tell has been racist towards the Chinese people. Call it 'Regimist' if you like, not racist.
It isn't quite what has been written by me today. My initial comment was that there have been similar accusations against well known figures. Then in response to a question about who has disappeared I said I didn't know, but mentioned the son of the Queen as a high up person who has or is facing similar accusations. I did not mention for instance Harvey Weinstein, or Rolf Harris, or religious leaders but maybe should have done so. My passing attempt to introduce the nature of maleness as the central problem (I mentioned Comaneci and Biles in that regard) was to indicate that there is a broader problem here rather than it only being a Chinese one. However I want to say the Chinese authorities are reprehensible, and making a noted athlete disappear in these circumstances is a terrible situation and quite quite wrong. Yes I am sensitive to racism, and anti Chinese racism in particular, and I have not accused any poster of direct anti Chinese racism on this thread. To me there is a problem regarding authoritarian maleness exaggerated when allied to totalitarian male power. And yes indeed, cases such as Weinstein or Harris, or Nassar have been rightly prosecuted, where it looks like that won't happen under this Chinese regime. But it won't be because they are Chinese people, but powerful men who feel they can get away with it, as happens to differing degrees everywhere. Incidentally I am participating in this conversation in a polite manner, not with the intention of 'helping myself' in any way.
She has made the accusation and disappeared. That wouldn't happen in the West. What is worrying is what is the endgame for the Chinese here? Will she ever appear?
Comments
’The West’ covers a lot of places.
In the background is the risk that this incident will be conflated into general anti Chinese predjudice.
The victim is a Chinese person
When China bullies Taiwan or Hong Kong, they are bullying ethnically Chinese people
The dominant group are the Hans.
Hearing anything remotely like that from IOC would be truly staggering, they're as addicted to the gravy train and as tone deaf as Blatter-era FIFA
When did the last Eurpean / American journalist, celebrity or sports star go missing for voicing an option?
The US and UK aren’t as nonchalant as China in terms of killing people just for speaking out, so it’s harder to point to blatant murders as it’s so easily covered up. Jeffery Epstein is the most recent example of false suicide, but there are others where the government looks like they had a part to play. Who knows what would have happened to Snowden or Assange if they stayed in the US?
Conflating the nonce in Buck House with the situation with this young girl is a gross false equivalence. Andrew's accuser has certainly not disappeared, quite the opposite as she has been given a platform to speak either directly or through her lawyers and he has been pretty much vilified by the media. Neither of which would be tolerated by the Chinese authorities in a similar scenario, as would appear to be the case here.
Criticising the Chinese regime in relation to their human rights record IS NOT RACIST and is not directed to or at the Chinese people, who have my sympathy when it comes to their lack of freedom.
Nobody on this thread as far as I can tell has been racist towards the Chinese people. Call it 'Regimist' if you like, not racist.
My initial comment was that there have been similar accusations against well known figures.
Then in response to a question about who has disappeared I said I didn't know, but mentioned the son of the Queen as a high up person who has or is facing similar accusations.
I did not mention for instance Harvey Weinstein, or Rolf Harris, or religious leaders but maybe should have done so.
My passing attempt to introduce the nature of maleness as the central problem (I mentioned Comaneci and Biles in that regard) was to indicate that there is a broader problem here rather than it only being a Chinese one.
However I want to say the Chinese authorities are reprehensible, and making a noted athlete disappear in these circumstances is a terrible situation and quite quite wrong.
Yes I am sensitive to racism, and anti Chinese racism in particular, and I have not accused any poster of direct anti Chinese racism on this thread.
To me there is a problem regarding authoritarian maleness exaggerated when allied to totalitarian male power. And yes indeed, cases such as Weinstein or Harris, or Nassar have been rightly prosecuted, where it looks like that won't happen under this Chinese regime.
But it won't be because they are Chinese people, but powerful men who feel they can get away with it, as happens to differing degrees everywhere.
Incidentally I am participating in this conversation in a polite manner, not with the intention of 'helping myself' in any way.