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Tokyo Olympics
Comments
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Shoot out in the hockey. I hope Gareth Southgate has chosen the right 53
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Back ya winners and invest in them, hopefully UK Sports (and Sport England's) funding is secure through to Brisbanekillerandflash said:The incredible number of events we now get medals in really impressive. It's not as if we just do well in a small number of sports any more0 -
Sorry, I don't get your point. So being young is an unfair advantage?McBobbin said:PrincessFiona said:
How on earth do you deduce that 'if she had an unfair advantage she would have won'? That is ridiculous logic. She has an unfair advantage but still didn't win.
How do you know that for a fact?
Would have got nowhere near the men's olympics which kind of proves the point. No born female would qualify for the male weightlifting events because of the inherent physiological differences that go deeper than hormone and testosterone.
I sympathise for Hubbard and I am sure she did not want to be thrust into the media spotlight but have far greater sympathy for women who have been hugely and unfairly disadvantaged and missed out on the olympics because of Hubbard's unfair advantage inherent of being born in a male body.
She is training just as hard as all the other female weightlifters around the world. If she did have an unfair advantage she would win.
There a huge amount of stories about how men not at world-level quality manage to beat world-level females. Surely if Laurel was getting so much advantage, she'd do the same after training 24/7 for the event?
Let's see how many 40 year old biological females are competing at the Olympics
I don't think all gold medals are entirely equal though. All amazing and justified in their own way, just not entirely comparable.
I also don't think it is completely fair to compare total of medals won e.g. Charlotte Dujardin compared to Katherine Grainger. I think the 62 year old Australian eventer demonstrates it is possible to compete for longer and at a greater age in some sports than others. Also, some sports such as swimming and gymnastics have the opportunity to compete in multi-events.2 -
Gotta love those hockey penalties.2
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Keep the semi and final to nil nil, and play for the shoot out! Spain didn't look like scoringMrWalker said:Gotta love those hockey penalties.0 -
Because you chose to ignore my last point completely.PrincessFiona said:
How on earth do you deduce that 'if she had an unfair advantage she would have won'? That is ridiculous logic. She has an unfair advantage but still didn't win.
How do you know that for a fact?
Would have got nowhere near the men's olympics which kind of proves the point. No born female would qualify for the male weightlifting events because of the inherent physiological differences that go deeper than hormone and testosterone.
I sympathise for Hubbard and I am sure she did not want to be thrust into the media spotlight but have far greater sympathy for women who have been hugely and unfairly disadvantaged and missed out on the olympics because of Hubbard's unfair advantage inherent of being born in a male body.
She is training just as hard as all the other female weightlifters around the world. If she did have an unfair advantage she would win.
There a huge amount of stories about how men not at world-level quality manage to beat world-level females. Surely if Laurel was getting so much advantage, she'd do the same after training 24/7 for the event?0 -
No I didn't. Just because you have an advantage, unfair or otherwise, doesn't mean you would win.SELR_addicks said:
Because you chose to ignore my last point completely.PrincessFiona said:
How on earth do you deduce that 'if she had an unfair advantage she would have won'? That is ridiculous logic. She has an unfair advantage but still didn't win.
How do you know that for a fact?
Would have got nowhere near the men's olympics which kind of proves the point. No born female would qualify for the male weightlifting events because of the inherent physiological differences that go deeper than hormone and testosterone.
I sympathise for Hubbard and I am sure she did not want to be thrust into the media spotlight but have far greater sympathy for women who have been hugely and unfairly disadvantaged and missed out on the olympics because of Hubbard's unfair advantage inherent of being born in a male body.
She is training just as hard as all the other female weightlifters around the world. If she did have an unfair advantage she would win.
There a huge amount of stories about how men not at world-level quality manage to beat world-level females. Surely if Laurel was getting so much advantage, she'd do the same after training 24/7 for the event?
Have you seen the comments by trans golfer Alison Perkins who doesn't think she should compete against women?
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Genuinely think they'd be better in football than normal penalties (in a shoot-out only). Got.tried in the MLS & dismissed as a daft Americanism, but I think they are more exciting and there's more skill to scoring and saving them.MrWalker said:Gotta love those hockey penalties.
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I enjoyed the shootout, but normally thought they try to hit it early where the goalie isn't set and harder for them to cover all angles. Obviously i am no expert but i was surprised everyone kept trying to trick the keeper, some good penalties by our girls and our keeper done well.
It does seem tough to pass the keeper the nearer you get, or maybe its just different tactics eg. shoot earlier and should be harder for the keeper in theory.0 -
Laurel Hubbard out of the olympics you say? But what happened to her walking all over the competition because of the gender she was born as? 😂😂😂😂😂😂 some people on here have made themselves look silly and bigoted!1
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Rather poor coverage of the athletics then. Yes the BBC is restricted, but weird that on the main channel they only showed 10 seconds of the 3000m steeplechase0
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Here we go.....0
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Was the same with the 100mkillerandflash said:Rather poor coverage of the athletics then. Yes the BBC is restricted, but weird that on the main channel they only showed 10 seconds of the 3000m steeplechase
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But they find time to show an interview with Megan Rapinoe and woffle about herkillerandflash said:Rather poor coverage of the athletics then. Yes the BBC is restricted, but weird that on the main channel they only showed 10 seconds of the 3000m steeplechase3 -
kentaddick said:Laurel Hubbard out of the olympics you say? But what happened to her walking all over the competition because of the gender she was born as? 😂😂😂😂😂😂 some people on here have made themselves look silly and bigoted!
She got there in the first place by virtue of the physiological advantages afforded by being born a man added to a background of competitive weight lifting to the detriment of elite women lifters who lack that inherent advantage.
It's wholly unfair to those women and nothing about bigotry or ignorance.
There is real bigotry in sneering at those who dare to question the fairness and legitimacy of these new ideas that we are all expected to believe unquestionably or be deemed bigots.
Very 1984.
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No, I'm saying that her having grown up as a man is an unfair advantage over biological women, and that only because she's significantly older than the other weightlifters the advantage is diminished. I wasn't clear.PrincessFiona said:
Sorry, I don't get your point. So being young is an unfair advantage?McBobbin said:PrincessFiona said:
How on earth do you deduce that 'if she had an unfair advantage she would have won'? That is ridiculous logic. She has an unfair advantage but still didn't win.
How do you know that for a fact?
Would have got nowhere near the men's olympics which kind of proves the point. No born female would qualify for the male weightlifting events because of the inherent physiological differences that go deeper than hormone and testosterone.
I sympathise for Hubbard and I am sure she did not want to be thrust into the media spotlight but have far greater sympathy for women who have been hugely and unfairly disadvantaged and missed out on the olympics because of Hubbard's unfair advantage inherent of being born in a male body.
She is training just as hard as all the other female weightlifters around the world. If she did have an unfair advantage she would win.
There a huge amount of stories about how men not at world-level quality manage to beat world-level females. Surely if Laurel was getting so much advantage, she'd do the same after training 24/7 for the event?
Let's see how many 40 year old biological females are competing at the Olympics
I don't think all gold medals are entirely equal though. All amazing and justified in their own way, just not entirely comparable.
I also don't think it is completely fair to compare total of medals won e.g. Charlotte Dujardin compared to Katherine Grainger. I think the 62 year old Australian eventer demonstrates it is possible to compete for longer and at a greater age in some sports than others. Also, some sports such as swimming and gymnastics have the opportunity to compete in multi-events.0 -
that is only a 10 second race though tbfSuedeAdidas said:
Was the same with the 100mkillerandflash said:Rather poor coverage of the athletics then. Yes the BBC is restricted, but weird that on the main channel they only showed 10 seconds of the 3000m steeplechase2 -
Looking back, I don't think anyone did. The consensus was she had some unfair advantage not that she would necessarily win. But if she did, it would be unfair on others.kentaddick said:Laurel Hubbard out of the olympics you say? But what happened to her walking all over the competition because of the gender she was born as? 😂😂😂😂😂😂 some people on here have made themselves look silly and bigoted!
It isn't clear how much advantage and it will vary in different sports and whether the transitioning was before or after puberty etc.
Surely the onus is to find a way forward that allows everyone to compete fairly - it seems highly unlikely debating on here is going to change anyone's opinion.1 -
This would of been a much better wind up if you’d posted it an hour ago. You missed your chance.kentaddick said:Laurel Hubbard out of the olympics you say? But what happened to her walking all over the competition because of the gender she was born as? 😂😂😂😂😂😂 some people on here have made themselves look silly and bigoted!1 -
really noticing the lack of coverage the BBC can show now - it's just basically a chat show with some highlights thrown in.
where as the 10 Eurosport channels are showing everything, it's brilliant.
I'm loving the Handball2 - Sponsored links:
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In weight lifting terms she fell at the very first hurdle. So is it an inherent advantage or not? Because the results seem to tell me otherwise.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:kentaddick said:Laurel Hubbard out of the olympics you say? But what happened to her walking all over the competition because of the gender she was born as? 😂😂😂😂😂😂 some people on here have made themselves look silly and bigoted!
She got there in the first place by virtue of the physiological advantages afforded by being born a man added to a background of competitive weight lifting to the detriment of elite women lifters who lack that inherent advantage.
It's wholly unfair to those women and nothing about bigotry or ignorance.
There is real bigotry in sneering at those who dare to question the fairness and legitimacy of these new ideas that we are all expected to believe unquestionably or be deemed bigots.
Very 1984.
Theres real bigotry on not admitting making a ridiculous judgement before seeing the results, then reframing the debate as something else so you don’t look like you were wrong and bigoted from the beginning. “We have always been at war with eastasia”. Very 1984 indeed.2 -
Since when was acknowledging male pubity is a thing bigotry? Classic you don't agree with me so your a bigot.
If only there was another thread where this could be debated to death..... Again.2 -
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Oh for the old days... Each Eastern European female athlete checked for a pair of bollocks before the "On your marks..."8
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Agree with what? You mean you don’t agree Laurel Hubbard has crashed out of the olympics?Cafc43v3r said:Since when was acknowledging male pubity is a thing bigotry? Classic you don't agree with me so your a bigot.
If only there was another thread where this could be debated to death..... Again.0 -
US women knocked out of the football by Canada.Lovely Stuff 🐸 ☕️7
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You know full well what I am talking about. No need to be more obtuse then you already are.kentaddick said:
Agree with what? You mean you don’t agree Laurel Hubbard has crashed out of the olympics?Cafc43v3r said:Since when was acknowledging male pubity is a thing bigotry? Classic you don't agree with me so your a bigot.
If only there was another thread where this could be debated to death..... Again.0 -
I have no idea what you’re talking about, if you’re going to get upset about something at least communicate it clearly please.Cafc43v3r said:
You know full well what I am talking about. No need to be more obtuse then you already are.kentaddick said:
Agree with what? You mean you don’t agree Laurel Hubbard has crashed out of the olympics?Cafc43v3r said:Since when was acknowledging male pubity is a thing bigotry? Classic you don't agree with me so your a bigot.
If only there was another thread where this could be debated to death..... Again.0 -
The BBC could still have shown the whole race or at least the last 2 laps, as it wasn't as if most viewers already knew the result.Elthamaddick said:really noticing the lack of coverage the BBC can show now - it's just basically a chat show with some highlights thrown in.
where as the 10 Eurosport channels are showing everything, it's brilliant.
I'm loving the Handball0 -
kentaddick said:
In weight lifting terms she fell at the very first hurdle. So is it an inherent advantage or not? Because the results seem to tell me otherwise.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:kentaddick said:Laurel Hubbard out of the olympics you say? But what happened to her walking all over the competition because of the gender she was born as? 😂😂😂😂😂😂 some people on here have made themselves look silly and bigoted!
She got there in the first place by virtue of the physiological advantages afforded by being born a man added to a background of competitive weight lifting to the detriment of elite women lifters who lack that inherent advantage.
It's wholly unfair to those women and nothing about bigotry or ignorance.
There is real bigotry in sneering at those who dare to question the fairness and legitimacy of these new ideas that we are all expected to believe unquestionably or be deemed bigots.
Very 1984.
Theres real bigotry on not admitting making a ridiculous judgement before seeing the results, then reframing the debate as something else so you don’t look like you were wrong and bigoted from the beginning. “We have always been at war with eastasia”. Very 1984 indeed.
Bottom line...I don't think it is fair or equitable in the interests of sport that people who spend the vast majority of their life as men before identifying as women be able to compete on a level playing field with women who have been born women and nothing about Hubbard's performance has provided evidence to the contrary.
Many people appear to be of this view despite it unfairly imo raising calls of being transphobic, bigoted etc.
Most people have tried to be very respectful and sensitive in articulating this view from what I've read on here and the other thread that was on this weeks ago so as to not offend or be hurtful to anyone who may be trans and have a constructive debate.
However comments like yours above with the emojis levelled at implying that anyone who has a view on trans issues that impact the mainstream that doesn't chime with what has been decided by a minority to be the "truth" are bigots is very unconstructive and sneering.
Just because Hubbard didn't wipe the floor is not to say she has no unfair advantage from the outset over those athletes she beat in qualifying.
I'll not hijack the thread on this debate but it's not likely to change peoples' minds by being scornful and sneering, particularly when the example you have cited is inconclusive to the point being debated.
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