England v Italy - THE FINAL - Match Thread

MuttleyCAFC said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Mendonca In Asdas said:

Has Southgate over or under achieved with the group of players at his disposal?

I wouldnt say he's over achieved, but dont think he's under achieved either

Are these players as good as the "Golden Generation" that only managed to reach three Quarter-Finals on the trot, I honestly dont think that they are... Not yet anyway yet have gotten further more consistently.

Its only been seven years since that awful display at the 2014 World Cup and only five since the Iceland defeat - Two years on from the latter, a lot of fans had given up on England, yet we suddenly went further than we had for 28-years.

For a country like England, you would say par is a quarter final. So I would say Southgate is about 3 under par so far. The thing is, his tactics have got us to places we don't usually get to. But it is fair to draw an analogy with the WC semi final in that we got an early goal and could see and feel Croatia getting back into it and didn't really counter or try anything different.

Maybe the learning for Southgate is not so much what he should have done, that would be for him and his staff to decide, but more that he should have done something to change the mood music. This is probably a bigger issue when you play better sides. Also getting an early goal against a decent side has been our downfall in the last two tournaments so there must be some learning there surely. Or does it have to happen three times?

Sunday was the 3rd time. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48455034

Dazzler21 said:

Jac_52 said:

Callumcafc said:

Madness. Take the starting elevens of each team last night. The only English players that get into that Italian XI are Kane, Sterling, Shaw and Walker. Some massively overstating the quality in our ranks. 

The English are all very good players and we have probably the best depth in the world at the moment but the Italians are 34 unbeaten because they have probably the best XI in world football.

Donnarumma over Pickford
Walker over Di Lorenzo
Bonucci over Stones
Chiellini over Maguire
Shaw over Emerson
Jorginho over Rice
Verratti over Phillips
Barella over Mount
Sterling over Insigne
Kane over Immobile

I'll give you donnarumma, forgot about him but Pickford was actually very good this tournament.

Mount wouldn't be in my starting 11 after his early performances but he would for sure have got significant game time with Italy and would have actually been utilised properly. He was anonymous for us because of the system we play.

Disagree on the others except veratti and jorginho. Maguire would fit the Italians extremely well with his ability on the ball and Stones has just won the premier league and played in the champions league final so more than good enough for me and I don't see bonucci or chiellini as being a real upgrade. We made it easy for both of them yesterday. 

Sancho, grealish and foden would all walk into that Italian team as well.

You forgot the bloke that saved two of our penalties?

Madness

Too busy remembering the bloke that saved 2 of theirs so didn't even contemplate the keeper position so you can shut the fuck up with your "madness" comments. 

Prick.

Covered End said:

golfaddick said:

Young kids cant hack it.

Need experienced pros to take penalties 

Ah yes like Southgate & Waddle back in the day.

Or Jordan Henderson | Ashley Cole | Ashley Young who were the last three players to miss penalties in shootouts.

Surprisingly prior to Rashford (23) missing his penalty, the last player of a similar age to miss was Vassell who was also 23 in Euro 2004 - The others who all missed, were experienced players, some might have heard of them: Beckham | Gerrard | Lampard | Carragher?

AFKABartram said:

Can’t help feel opportunity lost and that the goal so early just didn’t help us. Italy on balance of play the better team. For a couple of our key players it looked one game too many. 

Gutted. 

I said at the time we've scored too early & the wife was giving me grief for being negative (until they equalised).

orpingtonRED said:

ForeverAddickted said:

https://twitter.com/skysports_bryan/status/1414960638900703239

What is the throwing of object charge for? Is this inside the ground? 

Its for throwing the trophy away

Wasnt there mention of broken glass everywhere outside the stadium from issues throwing bottles?

Wonder if its that

SouthWest_Addicks said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Wasnt there mention of broken glass everywhere outside the stadium from issues throwing bottles?

Wonder if its that

Assumed it was when Italian players celebrated the Saka missed penalty, they decided to give it to the England fans when celebrating. In return, loads of bottles were launched at them. Same thing by the Italians fans, had loads of bottles get launched when they were celebrating. All very typical of what you see at big matches.

Were there charges for throwing objects at the previous matches against Germany, Denmark, Scotland etc?

TEL said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Elthamaddick said:

charltonkeston said:

Rashford did everything right with his penalty and missed by less than 4 inches. Saka's not so good but he stood up to be counted. Good save by the keeper for the other one.
The subs were correct, you need penalty takers on the pitch. The two that came on were not on there to do much other than take a penalty.
Anyone can miss or have a penalty saved. The European champions missed 2 of theirs.
Tactically we were good for the first 30 minutes then Italians were able to exploit our setup. 2nd half we were in danger of having a new arse torn for us, they were that dominant.
By anyone's measure we had a very successful Euros, only one team had better.
Fine margins between success and failure but still a great achievement to finish as runners up to a better team.

The only criticism I have of the players was the taking off the medals as soon as they were put on. Looked a bit childish to me. 

his stupid stuttering run up is ridiculous - he virtually stood still on the spot by the ball. Pick your spot, run up and hit it crisp and clean - it the keeper guesses the right way and saves it then fair play

if he practiced like that in training then I'd have hoped someone would've pulled him up on it

Like Lyle Taylor who has a 100% record with that sort of penalty.

This springs mind, 20,000 mile round trip to see this one

https://youtu.be/KFf1tXs6tdg

That was before he changed his run up to a walk up. He has never missed a penalty since changing his style.

Also how awful did we look there! 

I picked Italy from the very first games to win this(gutted to be right),simply because of the experience they had all over the pitch.Enough has been said about the defenders,but their midfield was simply players at the peak of their careers.Veratti,was everywhere, we had nobody anywhere near as influential as he was,Jorghinio the same(should have gone off).Our midfield was made up of very young players,mostly in the infancy of their international careers.Our defence fully experienced,was excellent,our attack,Kane and Sterling scored 7 ,and could have got more with a bit more forward play.Prior to the world cup,all our young lads will have another season,plus the added competition of James Maddison,Harvey barnes,Mason Greenwood,Out of this superb group of players we have,we must hope that one or more takes the step up from being a star of the future to being a Sergio Busquets or De Bruyne,then we will win .

Chunes said:

Good point about the midfield. I don't think Rice and Phillips will ever be at the level of Verratti and Jorginho. We need Bellingham to grow up fast. 

I think Rice is a fantastic talent. His performance against Italy was arguably his best of the tournament and had an effect on the game of which I’ve seen him do for West Ham this season. He just ran out of steam, took a knock and had to come off. I believe Pep is a very big fan.

North Lower Neil said:

ValleyGary said:

Chunes said:

Good point about the midfield. I don't think Rice and Phillips will ever be at the level of Verratti and Jorginho. We need Bellingham to grow up fast. 

I think Rice is a fantastic talent. His performance against Italy was arguably his best of the tournament and had an effect on the game of which I’ve seen him do for West Ham this season. He just ran out of steam, took a knock and had to come off. I believe Pep is a very big fan.

Rice is a good player and will get better.

Would like us to play a more forward thinking midfielder alongside him than Phillips (or Henderson) in the qualifiers to hopefully play that way in the World Cup, but can almost.guarantee it'll be Henderson.

Personally would like to see him play in a midfield two with Mount, who played there and was Motm (against Brazil in a friendly?). That would allow someone like Grealish or Foden to play in the 10 and have two wingers plus Kane. Our defence has proven it doesn’t need that two man protection.

I love this rhetoric that we apparently sat back to defend as soon as we scored... 

We took the game to Italy for the full first 20 minutes that's at least 17 minutes after the goal, or at lease long enough for Italy to adjust to our game plan.

Once they had us sussed we were limited to sporadic half chances. We came out second half without change to our game plan, that is my only criticism.