Breaking down the Euro 2020 final shoot-out by Ben Lyttleton
Let’s get one thing clear here. This is not a return of England’s penalty curse. This is not England ‘reverting to type’ by losing another shoot-out. If anything, the events of the Euro 2020 final are the total opposite. Let me explain…
Gareth has become 'Saint Gareth' in the eyes of many (not necessarily for football reasons) and is thus considered by some to be above criticism.
Did he do well to get us further in an international tournament than we have done for 55 years, absolutely.
However, anyone who knew anything about football could see the elephant sized flaw in his plan for the final, i.e sit back to defend a lead for more than two thirds of the game. The result was utterly predictable. Was it a shit plan? Absolutely.
Penalties are a disaster waiting to happen, as it proved. No blame should be attached to the takers, because they should not have been put in that position. If we had continued the early momentum and tried to go for more goals rather than shutting up shop with a quarter of the game played, then we could have avoided the situation entirely. For England to be playing for a penalty shootout with our history and the age of many of our players is insane.
If he shows that he can learn from this, then great. But if his overly defensive mindset means that we squander a generation of attacking players that are the envy of much of the world because of his tactical limitations and inability to react to the changing conditions of football games, then we need to thank him and move on to someone else with more courage and tactical nous.
I do question how much the long periods of defence were pre-planned opposed to Southgate coming up against an experienced and crafty manager with an excellent squad. Mancini's no mug and the Italian squad is top drawer, if lacking pace.
I'm not saying that Southgate is (or should be immune to criticism) entirely but I do think the quality of opposition both in terms of players and manager is being downplayed in some quarters.
Look at the Italian record before the game - yes there are a lot of smaller, weaker teams in there but you don't go thirty-plus games unbeaten just by being lucky.
Has Southgate over or under achieved with the group of players at his disposal?
I wouldnt say he's over achieved, but dont think he's under achieved either
Are these players as good as the "Golden Generation" that only managed to reach three Quarter-Finals on the trot, I honestly dont think that they are... Not yet anyway yet have gotten further more consistently.
Its only been seven years since that awful display at the 2014 World Cup and only five since the Iceland defeat - Two years on from the latter, a lot of fans had given up on England, yet we suddenly went further than we had for 28-years.
Has Southgate over or under achieved with the group of players at his disposal?
Putting aside the fact that I think France, Italy and Spain have better players, I don’t think you can ever say a semi final and a final from two major tournaments is an underachievement.
Even if you had the best squad in the world, it can still go wrong in 90 minutes and you’re gone. Look at France.
At the end of the day, you can have the best squad and the best players in the world and still not win a knockout tournament.
Has Southgate over or under achieved with the group of players at his disposal?
I wouldnt say he's over achieved, but dont think he's under achieved either
Are these players as good as the "Golden Generation" that only managed to reach three Quarter-Finals on the trot, I honestly dont think that they are... Not yet anyway yet have gotten further more consistently.
Its only been seven years since that awful display at the 2014 World Cup and only five since the Iceland defeat - Two years on from the latter, a lot of fans had given up on England, yet we suddenly went further than we had for 28-years.
For a country like England, you would say par is a quarter final. So I would say Southgate is about 3 under par so far. The thing is, his tactics have got us to places we don't usually get to. But it is fair to draw an analogy with the WC semi final in that we got an early goal and could see and feel Croatia getting back into it and didn't really counter or try anything different.
Maybe the learning for Southgate is not so much what he should have done, that would be for him and his staff to decide, but more that he should have done something to change the mood music. This is probably a bigger issue when you play better sides. Also getting an early goal against a decent side has been our downfall in the last two tournaments so there must be some learning there surely. Or does it have to happen three times?
Has Southgate over or under achieved with the group of players at his disposal?
I wouldnt say he's over achieved, but dont think he's under achieved either
Are these players as good as the "Golden Generation" that only managed to reach three Quarter-Finals on the trot, I honestly dont think that they are... Not yet anyway yet have gotten further more consistently.
Its only been seven years since that awful display at the 2014 World Cup and only five since the Iceland defeat - Two years on from the latter, a lot of fans had given up on England, yet we suddenly went further than we had for 28-years.
For a country like England, you would say par is a quarter final. So I would say Southgate is about 3 under par so far. The thing is, his tactics have got us to places we don't usually get to. But it is fair to draw an analogy with the WC semi final in that we got an early goal and could see and feel Croatia getting back into it and didn't really counter or try anything different.
Maybe the learning for Southgate is not so much what he should have done, that would be for him and his staff to decide, but more that he should have done something to change the mood music. This is probably a bigger issue when you play better sides. Also getting an early goal against a decent side has been our downfall in the last two tournaments so there must be some learning there surely. Or does it have to happen three times?
Madness. Take the starting elevens of each team last night. The only English players that get into that Italian XI are Kane, Sterling, Shaw and Walker. Some massively overstating the quality in our ranks.
The English are all very good players and we have probably the best depth in the world at the moment but the Italians are 34 unbeaten because they have probably the best XI in world football.
Donnarumma over Pickford Walker over Di Lorenzo Bonucci over Stones Chiellini over Maguire Shaw over Emerson Jorginho over Rice Verratti over Phillips Barella over Mount Sterling over Insigne Kane over Immobile
I'll give you donnarumma, forgot about him but Pickford was actually very good this tournament.
Mount wouldn't be in my starting 11 after his early performances but he would for sure have got significant game time with Italy and would have actually been utilised properly. He was anonymous for us because of the system we play.
Disagree on the others except veratti and jorginho. Maguire would fit the Italians extremely well with his ability on the ball and Stones has just won the premier league and played in the champions league final so more than good enough for me and I don't see bonucci or chiellini as being a real upgrade. We made it easy for both of them yesterday.
Sancho, grealish and foden would all walk into that Italian team as well.
You forgot the bloke that saved two of our penalties?
Madness
Too busy remembering the bloke that saved 2 of theirs so didn't even contemplate the keeper position so you can shut the fuck up with your "madness" comments.
Or Jordan Henderson | Ashley Cole | Ashley Young who were the last three players to miss penalties in shootouts.
Surprisingly prior to Rashford (23) missing his penalty, the last player of a similar age to miss was Vassell who was also 23 in Euro 2004 - The others who all missed, were experienced players, some might have heard of them: Beckham | Gerrard | Lampard | Carragher?
Grealish gives it the big one all the time, playing up to the fans and thinking he is Gazza 1990. Comes to the crunch and fucks right off like a fucking coward and let’s Saka step up in his place.
Can’t help feel opportunity lost and that the goal so early just didn’t help us. Italy on balance of play the better team. For a couple of our key players it looked one game too many.
Gutted.
I said at the time we've scored too early & the wife was giving me grief for being negative (until they equalised).
Can’t help feel opportunity lost and that the goal so early just didn’t help us. Italy on balance of play the better team. For a couple of our key players it looked one game too many.
Gutted.
I said at the time we've scored too early & the wife was giving me grief for being negative (until they equalised).
What is the throwing of object charge for? Is this inside the ground?
Its for throwing the trophy away
Ha I hadn't heard of any throwing objects during the match but if there's a charge I'm guessing there's evidence it happened. I've never seen it when I've been at Wembley before.
Wasnt there mention of broken glass everywhere outside the stadium from issues throwing bottles?
Wonder if its that
Assumed it was when Italian players celebrated the Saka missed penalty, they decided to give it to the England fans when celebrating. In return, loads of bottles were launched at them. Same thing by the Italians fans, had loads of bottles get launched when they were celebrating. All very typical of what you see at big matches.
Wasnt there mention of broken glass everywhere outside the stadium from issues throwing bottles?
Wonder if its that
Assumed it was when Italian players celebrated the Saka missed penalty, they decided to give it to the England fans when celebrating. In return, loads of bottles were launched at them. Same thing by the Italians fans, had loads of bottles get launched when they were celebrating. All very typical of what you see at big matches.
Were there charges for throwing objects at the previous matches against Germany, Denmark, Scotland etc?
Rashford did everything right with his penalty and missed by less than 4 inches. Saka's not so good but he stood up to be counted. Good save by the keeper for the other one. The subs were correct, you need penalty takers on the pitch. The two that came on were not on there to do much other than take a penalty. Anyone can miss or have a penalty saved. The European champions missed 2 of theirs. Tactically we were good for the first 30 minutes then Italians were able to exploit our setup. 2nd half we were in danger of having a new arse torn for us, they were that dominant. By anyone's measure we had a very successful Euros, only one team had better. Fine margins between success and failure but still a great achievement to finish as runners up to a better team.
The only criticism I have of the players was the taking off the medals as soon as they were put on. Looked a bit childish to me.
his stupid stuttering run up is ridiculous - he virtually stood still on the spot by the ball. Pick your spot, run up and hit it crisp and clean - it the keeper guesses the right way and saves it then fair play
if he practiced like that in training then I'd have hoped someone would've pulled him up on it
Like Lyle Taylor who has a 100% record with that sort of penalty.
This springs mind, 20,000 mile round trip to see this one
Rashford did everything right with his penalty and missed by less than 4 inches. Saka's not so good but he stood up to be counted. Good save by the keeper for the other one. The subs were correct, you need penalty takers on the pitch. The two that came on were not on there to do much other than take a penalty. Anyone can miss or have a penalty saved. The European champions missed 2 of theirs. Tactically we were good for the first 30 minutes then Italians were able to exploit our setup. 2nd half we were in danger of having a new arse torn for us, they were that dominant. By anyone's measure we had a very successful Euros, only one team had better. Fine margins between success and failure but still a great achievement to finish as runners up to a better team.
The only criticism I have of the players was the taking off the medals as soon as they were put on. Looked a bit childish to me.
his stupid stuttering run up is ridiculous - he virtually stood still on the spot by the ball. Pick your spot, run up and hit it crisp and clean - it the keeper guesses the right way and saves it then fair play
if he practiced like that in training then I'd have hoped someone would've pulled him up on it
Like Lyle Taylor who has a 100% record with that sort of penalty.
This springs mind, 20,000 mile round trip to see this one
I picked Italy from the very first games to win this(gutted to be right),simply because of the experience they had all over the pitch.Enough has been said about the defenders,but their midfield was simply players at the peak of their careers.Veratti,was everywhere, we had nobody anywhere near as influential as he was,Jorghinio the same(should have gone off).Our midfield was made up of very young players,mostly in the infancy of their international careers.Our defence fully experienced,was excellent,our attack,Kane and Sterling scored 7 ,and could have got more with a bit more forward play.Prior to the world cup,all our young lads will have another season,plus the added competition of James Maddison,Harvey barnes,Mason Greenwood,Out of this superb group of players we have,we must hope that one or more takes the step up from being a star of the future to being a Sergio Busquets or De Bruyne,then we will win .
Pretty sure we'll have to play a couple of matches behind closed doors, similar to the punishment Hungary got for their fans racist and homophobic chants. Especially coming off the back of the fine for incidents at the Denmark game.
The ban won't affect the WC qualifiers though as the Euro's are sanctioned by UEFA, so won't affect any games until the Nations league starts in 2022.
Speaking of midfield, what do you think of Grealish? I didn't watch much Premier League football last season. I remember reading negative news about him before Villa went down and never saw anything or watched him play until this tournament. He did alright in the limited time he was given I think. I was actually quite surprised that he had improved in the past couple of seasons and got to the level of being chosen into the national squad, considering his off pitch bad boy image in previous years...
Comments
England, Southgate and penalties
Let’s get one thing clear here. This is not a return of England’s penalty curse. This is not England ‘reverting to type’ by losing another shoot-out. If anything, the events of the Euro 2020 final are the total opposite. Let me explain…
Did he do well to get us further in an international tournament than we have done for 55 years, absolutely.
However, anyone who knew anything about football could see the elephant sized flaw in his plan for the final, i.e sit back to defend a lead for more than two thirds of the game. The result was utterly predictable. Was it a shit plan? Absolutely.
Penalties are a disaster waiting to happen, as it proved. No blame should be attached to the takers, because they should not have been put in that position. If we had continued the early momentum and tried to go for more goals rather than shutting up shop with a quarter of the game played, then we could have avoided the situation entirely. For England to be playing for a penalty shootout with our history and the age of many of our players is insane.
If he shows that he can learn from this, then great. But if his overly defensive mindset means that we squander a generation of attacking players that are the envy of much of the world because of his tactical limitations and inability to react to the changing conditions of football games, then we need to thank him and move on to someone else with more courage and tactical nous.
He is England manager, but he is not England.
I'm not saying that Southgate is (or should be immune to criticism) entirely but I do think the quality of opposition both in terms of players and manager is being downplayed in some quarters.
Look at the Italian record before the game - yes there are a lot of smaller, weaker teams in there but you don't go thirty-plus games unbeaten just by being lucky.
Are these players as good as the "Golden Generation" that only managed to reach three Quarter-Finals on the trot, I honestly dont think that they are... Not yet anyway yet have gotten further more consistently.
Its only been seven years since that awful display at the 2014 World Cup and only five since the Iceland defeat - Two years on from the latter, a lot of fans had given up on England, yet we suddenly went further than we had for 28-years.
At the end of the day, you can have the best squad and the best players in the world and still not win a knockout tournament.
Maybe the learning for Southgate is not so much what he should have done, that would be for him and his staff to decide, but more that he should have done something to change the mood music. This is probably a bigger issue when you play better sides. Also getting an early goal against a decent side has been our downfall in the last two tournaments so there must be some learning there surely. Or does it have to happen three times?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48455034
Prick.
Surprisingly prior to Rashford (23) missing his penalty, the last player of a similar age to miss was Vassell who was also 23 in Euro 2004 - The others who all missed, were experienced players, some might have heard of them: Beckham | Gerrard | Lampard | Carragher?
I hadn't heard of any throwing objects during the match but if there's a charge I'm guessing there's evidence it happened.
I've never seen it when I've been at Wembley before.
Wonder if its that
Also how awful did we look there!
The ban won't affect the WC qualifiers though as the Euro's are sanctioned by UEFA, so won't affect any games until the Nations league starts in 2022.