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European Super League - clubs withdrawing p42 onwards.
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I imagine they will let them get away with it also, people will be pissed off but at the end of the day, they're still gonna make a shit load of money and the audience will barely shrink. Legacy fans will stop going but rich tourists will still fill out the stadiums every week. Overseas fans with no real link to the club will keep paying for merchandise and watching the games. Give it a few years and people will get over thisElliotCAFC said:
It simply has to happen, unless there’s a seismic shift in the way our culture relates to consumerism or realigns our values towards community’s rather than corporate greed - it’s too good a deal to turn down.jacob_CAFC said:
Yeah I think even if this doesn't go through in the way it is being proposed, the fact that they have gone this far is not a good omen for the future.ElliotCAFC said:This will be a resounding success for those involved. The market in the east means clubs no longer need the Premier League, if anything, the Premier League is a stumbling block on the road to a financial utopia. They control the rules, revenue and ultimately football.In 50 years time younger generations won’t understand what all the fuss was about. You can see it now, 12 year olds saying Messi was overrated because he never did it in the Super League.Seriously concerning for the rest of the football pyramid. Owners now have clubs with massive losses and now a glass ceiling on where they can go.
Unless something big happens to stop this, e.g legislature then it'll eventually happen exactly how they want itFully expect UEFA, FIFA and the domestic leagues to bottle it and allow them to do what they want. They can’t afford to lose those teams.0 -
Peter Varney's views:
https://www.integralsportsmanagement.co.uk/a-battle-for-our-football-soul/I sat at the monthly Premier League meetings for many years and there were regular debates around increasing the amounts paid to the so called big six. It is no coincidence you need to secure 14 votes to change anything at the Premier League. The big six don’t like that rule and never have. They have been appeased for a long time now with changes to the revenue distribution arrangements but now I say enough is enough.
UEFA and the Premier League and fan groups up and down the country need to take a firm stance. Drop these proposals or risk elimination from all football in this country, UEFA must not recognise this competition under any circumstances.
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Yeah I posted after that I thought he still played for them. Should've checked first, not watched a premier league game for ages.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Can't disagree with his words, but he plays for PSG who've opted not to take part, most likely only because of their Qatari owners not wanting to rock the boat ahead of the Qatar world cup. I've no doubt once that world cup is over PSG will be signing up.Talal said:
It'll mean a lot more when top players at the 12 clubs come out against the ESL.1 -
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Talal said:
Yeah I posted after that I thought he still played for them. Should've checked first, not watched a premier league game for ages.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Can't disagree with his words, but he plays for PSG who've opted not to take part, most likely only because of their Qatari owners not wanting to rock the boat ahead of the Qatar world cup. I've no doubt once that world cup is over PSG will be signing up.Talal said:
It'll mean a lot more when top players at the 12 clubs come out against the ESL.
You haven't missed much.0 -
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Yeah I can't see the players coming out against it, they will surely be getting more money and certain to be playing against the best teams each week.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Can't disagree with his words, but he plays for PSG who've opted not to take part, most likely only because of their Qatari owners not wanting to rock the boat ahead of the Qatar world cup. I've no doubt once that world cup is over PSG will be signing up.Talal said:
It'll mean a lot more when top players at the 12 clubs come out against the ESL.0 -
I imagine the players at the 12 clubs are discussing amongst themselves what to do, and presenting a unified approach as they know they'll be asked about this.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Can't disagree with his words, but he plays for PSG who've opted not to take part, most likely only because of their Qatari owners not wanting to rock the boat ahead of the Qatar world cup. I've no doubt once that world cup is over PSG will be signing up.Talal said:
It'll mean a lot more when top players at the 12 clubs come out against the ESL.
Ditto the coaches - Leeds play Liverpool tonight, Bielsa and especially Klopp will have to say something0 -
Just looked at he format for the tournament and predict it will be the most boring sporting competition in the world.8
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They can afford to lose them if they are cut off. Over time other clubs will become 'the big clubs' in the existing competitions, and within a fair qualifying system there is the strong hope that the public's interest will sway towards these traditional competitions.ElliotCAFC said:
It simply has to happen, unless there’s a seismic shift in the way our culture relates to consumerism or realigns our values towards community’s rather than corporate greed - it’s too good a deal to turn down.jacob_CAFC said:
Yeah I think even if this doesn't go through in the way it is being proposed, the fact that they have gone this far is not a good omen for the future.ElliotCAFC said:This will be a resounding success for those involved. The market in the east means clubs no longer need the Premier League, if anything, the Premier League is a stumbling block on the road to a financial utopia. They control the rules, revenue and ultimately football.In 50 years time younger generations won’t understand what all the fuss was about. You can see it now, 12 year olds saying Messi was overrated because he never did it in the Super League.Seriously concerning for the rest of the football pyramid. Owners now have clubs with massive losses and now a glass ceiling on where they can go.
Unless something big happens to stop this, e.g legislature then it'll eventually happen exactly how they want itFully expect UEFA, FIFA and the domestic leagues to bottle it and allow them to do what they want. They can’t afford to lose those teams.
It would be even more interesting if the fans of the Big Six form their own clubs and work their way up the leagues.
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Sky, having being highly critical last night (guessing Neville's script wasn't vetted), are now whitewashing their coverage with Mourinho. No coincidence that this has happened immediately after the Super League announcement to allow potential broadcasters to switch their criticism. Top 10 minutes of the hour it doesn't get a mention. Even what they're covering is overlaid by Mourinho banners.0
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It really doesn't matter what anyone thinks, money talks and is the driving factor. Talk of banning them from other competions or banning their players from representing their countries is nonsense, it would end in court and EUFA would lose and they don't have the money to match the ESL's legal team anyway or indeed the desire.
Best anyone can hope for is that they leave all competions in this country for good, with the hope that with a drop in TV revenue because the big boys ain't playing anymore, a serious revaluation of football finances takes place, bringing a proper regulatory body on board and getting rid of the awful FA. Still, fat chance of any of that happening as they are probably just angling for a bigger cut of the pie and more control of a game that they firmly believe is theirs to control.0 -
Lordflashheart said:I guess the burning question is will the ESL have a positive effect on the amount of chips in a portion of chips at ESL games 🤷
Their customers don't eat chips.0 -
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could be the best thing to happen to our football leagues for 30 years - let them all f**k off and slowly die3
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The difference is the counties are collecting a metric fuck ton of cash, have control when the ECB could have easily gone around them, and they will benefit as will the sport as a whole. The ESL isn't that, it's a cash grab by people used to collecting easy money through the franchise system in the US or desperate gamblers in Madrid, Milan and Barcelonakentaddick said:
If you call having a gun pointed at your head and being told “take this wad of cash or you’ll go out of existence” as “supported” then yes. It’s an ecb cash grab that’s throwing millions upon millions into a cricket competition designed for people who don’t like cricket... go figure.Rothko said:
The Hundred is a governing body driven competition supported by the Counties.kentaddick said:this is the football equivalent of the hundred, isnt it? no doubt they'll be scheduled games in the USA and china. Doomed to fail imo.
I also find the Premier League comparison a bit flaky0 -
Have any of the players said anything yet? I wonder how much they knew about it0
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I managed to last 10yrs before I finally succumbed to a Sky subscription.
It’ll happen.
Fans are loyal to their teams and they know it, the barstewards.
Lets see how long I last this time when I have a Spurs supporting husband.0 -
I work in IT. I love it when my bosses refer to our "legacy systems" and wax lyrical about f**** Microsoft Office 365: try running anything without your key business systems, regardless of what platform they are on and you'll see how useful Office is. Idiots.WSS said:According to source, some of those involved in ESL call traditional supporters of clubs “legacy fans” while they are focused instead on the “fans of the future” who want superstar names
The Super League bollox sounds a bit like the Harlem Globetrotters, with a format mirroring the massively successful Scottish Prem because there aren't enough teams for a full programme.1 - Sponsored links:
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Not sure why you say uefa will lose if this goes to court.Bailey said:It really doesn't matter what anyone thinks, money talks and is the driving factor. Talk of banning them from other competions or banning their players from representing their countries is nonsense, it would end in court and EUFA would lose and they don't have the money to match the ESL's legal team anyway or indeed the desire.
Best anyone can hope for is that they leave all competions in this country for good, with the hope that with a drop in TV revenue because the big boys ain't playing anymore, a serious revaluation of football finances takes place, bringing a proper regulatory body on board and getting rid of the awful FA. Still, fat chance of any of that happening as they are probably just angling for a bigger cut of the pie and more control of a game that they firmly believe is theirs to control.
Daily telegraph has a good article saying the new league could be against EU law.0 -
Spurs! Super League! My Arse!
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Spurs are changing their name to the Washington Generalsrananegra said:
I work in IT. I love it when my bosses refer to our "legacy systems" and wax lyrical about f**** Microsoft Office 365: try running anything without your key business systems, regardless of what platform they are on and you'll see how useful Office is. Idiots.WSS said:According to source, some of those involved in ESL call traditional supporters of clubs “legacy fans” while they are focused instead on the “fans of the future” who want superstar names
The Super League bollox sounds a bit like the Harlem Globetrotters, with a format mirroring the massively successful Scottish Prem because there aren't enough teams for a full programme.5 -
Here's my perspective as a football supporter in the slipstream of exported UK football.
When working to plan how to achieve this super league, the executive strategists will have focused primarily on capital opportunities and then the messaging that supports that. Drunk on the opportunity to achieve a lock on profits from "sports entertainment" they will have had a "if you build it they will come" approach to solving the issue with objecting supporters (i.e. "legacy supporters") in domestic leagues. This is a coup d'état of sorts and they will have prepared a strategy, probably along these lines: attract the causal but aspiring supporter in key demographic markets across the globe. Spend furiously on positioning the league as the pinnacle football. The ultimate spectacle. Slowly erode away at opposition until a tipping point is achieved, where some portion of "legacy supporters" succumb to participating on a "might as well join them" basis. If successful, evolve away entirely from domestic leagues.
They will have seen anticipated opposition as primarily a communications and branding issue. Weather the initial storm and press on until the seductive forces of the super league's money machine take root.
And, though it's scary to contemplate, that could very well work.
However, it's not inevitable.
I have seen first hand how fans in regions outside of the UK sometimes awkwardly perform their club affiliations, aspiring to meaningful emotional connections to some imagined versions of "their club". And one of the often overlooked aspects of this is the search (need?) for authenticity.
I think what has made English football popular all around the world is a strong sense of authenticity that comes from long histories and regional diversities. Many of the supporters here on our little (and I should say historically British) island will plod down to the local dive bar in their shirts and scarves to watch their teams in the Premier League and the European competitions. They'll occasionally break out into a little song together, five or six deep, signalling to the others there that they are proper supporters. They'll drink Heinekens. They'll do stadium tours when they travel to England and buy the most expensive tickets to say they've been to Anfield, or Old Trafford. Nine out of ten couldn't find Liverpool or Manchester on a map! But, what they want to find is a connection to the root of it all. It's a mirror of the process of football growing out of it's working class origins and into a broader economic force (i.e. gentrification) in the 90s within the UK. I could go on about British football culture overseas, but I won't! Suffice to say, I think that this is where the bankers have gotten out over their skis. They'll need a lot more capital than they think if they're going to be successful in papering over the gaping cultural hole that leaving behind historical ties will create, particularly if organised supporters can counteract the shiny branding with an appeal to authenticity.
If English football is going to survive in any meaningful way to continue to evolve within its own historical parameters, supporters will need to poison the well of this experiment. It must be clear to the "replacement fan" across the globe, and to the executive banker class, that this league is hollow and empty. That it's meaningless. That it's not worth investing in emotionally. That it's not fit for consumption. That it's embarrassing that you'd understand it as anything other than that. It's a pariah.15 -
Juve and the Milan twins, plus Barca and Real may be right in thinking they have their domestic leagues over a barrel. The so called "big 6" are fooling themselves if they think they have the same necessity here.
Let's not kids ourselves, pre-Abromovic, Chelsea were a nothing club, languishing in mid-table, reminiscing over their brief 70s hey day. Man City were a 3rd division clubs, Liverpool hadn't won the league in 30 years, Arsenal and Tottenham are mid-table, Tottenham haven't been that much better than that in decades and Arsenal were that pre-George Graham. The league didn't fall apart when Man Utd were a second division team, nor when they were finishing mid-table in the 80s and last decade.
Equally, the domestic game didn't fall apart when Leicester, Blackburn, Leeds, Everton, Villa or Forest won the top flight. The game will continue unabated, there are plenty of big clubs and big clubs in waiting. The things that make the English game successful will remain, and many of those things won't be replicated in the Super League. The money may be less, but after a painful readjustment I don't think it will be fatally less.
What these owners don't understand is that the big European nights are special because they're not every week. The more you try to make them every week the less special they become. The champions league group stage viewing figures have been declining. Increasing the number of group games (either via new champs league format or super league) won't reverse that trend, it will only accelerate it (there will probably be a short term increase, but that will disappear once the novelty has worn off).
Lived experience tells us that the most hyped games between the supposed best teams are usually fairly poor. The pressure is too much, the teams too closely matched. The best games are often surprises, and any attempt to artificially generate more better games usually has the opposite effect.39 -
Yep. Same teams year after year, and after probably 5 of the league games you'll have 2-3 sides in each section who can't qualify or make the play offs. So they'll just be travelling about Europe playing meaningless games knowing they can't get relegated.Macronate said:Just looked at he format for the tournament and predict it will be the most boring sporting competition in the world.
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will be interesting because FIFA have previously said that anyone playing in breakaway leagues wouldn't be recognised and thus ineligible for world cups.McBobbin said:Have any of the players said anything yet? I wonder how much they knew about it
will players turn their backs on their country in order to double their money? (unfortunately i think most would)2 -
There are many fans, like us, who are content not to see the very best players in the world play. They support their club and want them to beat the team they are facing up against and do well in the league they are playing in.19
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It's unlikely that EUFA could win this battle Fortune, we are assuming that this would break EU laws when quite simply they could take the competition outside European juristriction, remember a few years back the aborted attempt to house a Premier league game in the states? As I say I still feel this is brinkmanship to gain more control and more money, sadly the rest of football suffers and especially in our leagues, everybody has to try and keep up, it's creating huge black holes in finances for championship clubs and there is a knock on effect throughout the league.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Not sure why you say uefa will lose if this goes to court.Bailey said:It really doesn't matter what anyone thinks, money talks and is the driving factor. Talk of banning them from other competions or banning their players from representing their countries is nonsense, it would end in court and EUFA would lose and they don't have the money to match the ESL's legal team anyway or indeed the desire.
Best anyone can hope for is that they leave all competions in this country for good, with the hope that with a drop in TV revenue because the big boys ain't playing anymore, a serious revaluation of football finances takes place, bringing a proper regulatory body on board and getting rid of the awful FA. Still, fat chance of any of that happening as they are probably just angling for a bigger cut of the pie and more control of a game that they firmly believe is theirs to control.
Daily telegraph has a good article saying the new league could be against EU law.0 -
I hope you’re right. I don’t see any reality where the likes of Leicester and Everton dominating a league where there’s zero of the world’s top players in can possibly compete with the huge spectacle that the Super League wants to create.jimmymelrose said:
They can afford to lose them if they are cut off. Over time other clubs will become 'the big clubs' in the existing competitions, and within a fair qualifying system there is the strong hope that the public's interest will sway towards these traditional competitions.ElliotCAFC said:
It simply has to happen, unless there’s a seismic shift in the way our culture relates to consumerism or realigns our values towards community’s rather than corporate greed - it’s too good a deal to turn down.jacob_CAFC said:
Yeah I think even if this doesn't go through in the way it is being proposed, the fact that they have gone this far is not a good omen for the future.ElliotCAFC said:This will be a resounding success for those involved. The market in the east means clubs no longer need the Premier League, if anything, the Premier League is a stumbling block on the road to a financial utopia. They control the rules, revenue and ultimately football.In 50 years time younger generations won’t understand what all the fuss was about. You can see it now, 12 year olds saying Messi was overrated because he never did it in the Super League.Seriously concerning for the rest of the football pyramid. Owners now have clubs with massive losses and now a glass ceiling on where they can go.
Unless something big happens to stop this, e.g legislature then it'll eventually happen exactly how they want itFully expect UEFA, FIFA and the domestic leagues to bottle it and allow them to do what they want. They can’t afford to lose those teams.
It would be even more interesting if the fans of the Big Six form their own clubs and work their way up the leagues.Leicester could win the new Premier League 100
times in a row and they’d still not be as big a franchise as any of the clubs that have left.While the revenue in the pyramid drastically decreases, overheads remain the same. To me, this really does look like a disaster for everyone but the few who are leaving.1
