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Has Bowyer lost it?
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This is league 1, an awful league one at that. On current former, bowyer is taking us to our worst league position in most Charlton supporters life times.ForeverAddickted said:Its potentially an interesting discussion for another thread
But is it a sign of how Technology has changed since 1992 what with the introduction of Internet Forums etc.
My point is in 1991/92 we finished 7th under Curbs and Gritt
The following year we had a period were we got 14-points from seventeen games, ended up 12th in the League
This season we're going through a period of 18-points from seventeen games
Should Curbs and Gritt have gone?Can’t really compare to grit and curbs in a league above4 -
I don’t want him calling players out in publicesseffect said:
I just think give him until the end of the season.Bolderhumphreyreid said:
We know he’s your love child but you can’t defend it any more surely?esseffect said:Hahahahhaha you guys gave it a week!On the post-match thread I called what I thought were mistakes.
He even said tonight the squad is good enough so if they don’t make play offs that’s a lot of pressure on him.
I think the squads good enough but there are still some individual errors.I’m disappointed he didn’t call out Watson for not clearing the ball, but people here don’t want him calling players out so..1 -
It gives a new manager time to assess the squad and plan for next seasonse9addick said:Bowyer won’t be sacked this season, certainly not now, would be crazy to make that decision the day after the transfer window closes.
Not saying I agree with it, but that’s how I see it.2 -
We were a piss poor club with no money compared to others at that point, with money being put in to returning to The Valley and it was in the second tier .ForeverAddickted said:Its potentially an interesting discussion for another thread
But is it a sign of how Technology has changed since 1992 what with the introduction of Internet Forums etc.
My point is in 1991/92 we finished 7th under Curbs and Gritt
The following year we had a period were we got 14-points from seventeen games, ended up 12th in the League
This season we're going through a period of 18-points from seventeen games
Should Curbs and Gritt have gone?
Even with a salary cap we are one of the bigger fish in this shit heap of a pond called League One and we are so underperforming it's shocking .11 -
Another it's only League one quote.Todds_right_hook said:
This is league 1, an awful league one at that. On current former, bowyer is taking us to our worst league position in most Charlton supporters life times.ForeverAddickted said:Its potentially an interesting discussion for another thread
But is it a sign of how Technology has changed since 1992 what with the introduction of Internet Forums etc.
My point is in 1991/92 we finished 7th under Curbs and Gritt
The following year we had a period were we got 14-points from seventeen games, ended up 12th in the League
This season we're going through a period of 18-points from seventeen games
Should Curbs and Gritt have gone?Can’t really compare to grit and curbs in a league above0 -
Yes I don't and won't disagree with that but it highlights the issue doesn't just refer to this season it started around October 19.ForeverAddickted said:
To be fair Bowyer's run of games has been Championship - League OneDazzler21 said:23 wins from 72 games.
Also known as worse than Karl Robinson's record with us 27 in 74.
Robinson's was League One - League One2 -
Yep , Curbs and Gritt were Championship Championship ChampionshipForeverAddickted said:
To be fair Bowyer's run of games has been Championship - League OneDazzler21 said:23 wins from 72 games.
Also known as worse than Karl Robinson's record with us 27 in 74.
Robinson's was League One - League One0 -
Bowyer has regressed in the last two years.ForeverAddickted said:
Was Bowyer a mediorce manager when we went up two years ago?hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
No point sticking with a mediocre manager.agim said:Stick with him. We've had too many managers over the last 10 years and the club needs stability. It looks like we have it with TS so let's back him and build something. THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. We had our best periods under Curbs after giving him time.
the bowyer we have now is not the same bowyer as two years ago, he didn’t tinker, he didn’t make stupid team selections.
I don’t think he can get back to two years ago18 -
Yep it would be a good idea, but much like signing a centre back this January, it’s a good idea that won’t be acted upon.Todds_right_hook said:
It gives a new manager time to assess the squad and plan for next seasonse9addick said:Bowyer won’t be sacked this season, certainly not now, would be crazy to make that decision the day after the transfer window closes.
Not saying I agree with it, but that’s how I see it.0 -
Lee has been a moody bugger since he sat at that press conference with Southall looking like he didn't want to be there and saying he was being forced to overplay Gallagher. OK, knowing what we know about Southall, you might be able to excuse him, but he has been in that mode for most of the time since.
Do you recall when he started and we had given up on the play offs. We will make them. We are good enough - all positivity. It was a different bloke FFS!.
He has tried not to dig players out publicly of late (I assume after strong words) and to be a bit more cheerful. BTW, doing this to three players is extremely unprofessional. His press conferences have been negativity personified. Five subs is bad and I didn't vote for it (that's right, put a negative spin on something you could have been positive about). We have to look after Smyth as he is a QPR player. WTF!!!! Wage cap this, wage cap that. It isn't the same bloke FFS!3 -
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It wouldn't be acceptable if we had to sell our best player to build a stand? It wouldn't be acceptable if we had to rebuild a squad after losing all our major players? The 90-91 to 92-93 squads had continuity, only forced to sell Rob Lee: Can't think of many others moving on to better things. Andy Peake and Gordon Watson? From 18-19 to 20-21 we have none of our main players left barring Pearce.
Jackett's had four seasons to build a squad in League One. Sunderland three. Robinson had two and got nowhere near. We should be better, but expecting everything to click in one season without anywhere near proper planning is crazy.7 -
Okay, let’s pretend we aren’t currently in league 1agim said:
Another it's only League one quote.Todds_right_hook said:
This is league 1, an awful league one at that. On current former, bowyer is taking us to our worst league position in most Charlton supporters life times.ForeverAddickted said:Its potentially an interesting discussion for another thread
But is it a sign of how Technology has changed since 1992 what with the introduction of Internet Forums etc.
My point is in 1991/92 we finished 7th under Curbs and Gritt
The following year we had a period were we got 14-points from seventeen games, ended up 12th in the League
This season we're going through a period of 18-points from seventeen games
Should Curbs and Gritt have gone?Can’t really compare to grit and curbs in a league above0 -
Curbs and Gritt (and then Curbs) also had a flurry of seasons where it wasnt always just a case of marching up the Championship thoughoohaahmortimer said:
Yep , Curbs and Gritt were Championship Championship ChampionshipForeverAddickted said:
To be fair Bowyer's run of games has been Championship - League OneDazzler21 said:23 wins from 72 games.
Also known as worse than Karl Robinson's record with us 27 in 74.
Robinson's was League One - League One
7th | 12th | 11th | 15th | 6th | 15th | 4th...
You're right though in your other post... Curbs did have a shoestring budget at times... I cant argue with that point0 -
Agree, I’d be interested to know how many of the top teams are tinkering like bowyer does. If they are why is it working for them,?, if they’re not it proves bowyers approach is flawed and may need to pick a team and stick with it. It may even give players confidence knowing they are going to get a run of games unless they play there selves out of the team.Scoham said:
Any benefit Bowyer thinks we're getting by tweaking the team and formation almost every game is lost by the negatives it brings.Covered_End_Lad said:My main issue is that I don’t see any clear system, style or tactic in the way we play. I genuinely couldn’t tell you what style of football we play. Constant tinkering of first 11 and formation just creates really messy and incoherent performances.0 -
Did Curbs and Gritt make baffling decisions? Like continuingly resting someone who has put in a MoM performance the next game?12
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Probably at times if you think back far enoughFishCostaFortune said:Did Curbs and Gritt make baffling decisions? Like continuingly resting someone who has put in a MoM performance the next game?
Lets not completely re-write history as imagine there were games where the fans got fed up with them
It wouldnt have been a bed of roses on the way from 1991 - 19981 -
It is odd.FishCostaFortune said:Did Curbs and Gritt make baffling decisions? Like continuingly resting someone who has put in a MoM performance the next game?
Players really don't know where they stand with Bowyer at the moment. And it shows.2 -
You were saying it like we have the right to automatically get promoted. We don't and some of our fans need to be realistic.Todds_right_hook said:
Okay, let’s pretend we aren’t currently in league 1agim said:
Another it's only League one quote.Todds_right_hook said:
This is league 1, an awful league one at that. On current former, bowyer is taking us to our worst league position in most Charlton supporters life times.ForeverAddickted said:Its potentially an interesting discussion for another thread
But is it a sign of how Technology has changed since 1992 what with the introduction of Internet Forums etc.
My point is in 1991/92 we finished 7th under Curbs and Gritt
The following year we had a period were we got 14-points from seventeen games, ended up 12th in the League
This season we're going through a period of 18-points from seventeen games
Should Curbs and Gritt have gone?Can’t really compare to grit and curbs in a league above1 -
Just chucked Phil Chapple up front for bants...FishCostaFortune said:Did Curbs and Gritt make baffling decisions? Like continuingly resting someone who has put in a MoM performance the next game?5 -
I think like everyone thought before he took us over, bowyer just isn’t made out to be a manager, in the playoff season we had a steady team far too good for that league. Since we’ve had a very unstable team and consistently made 3/4 changes a game without fail, that’s just not a recipe for success. He doesn’t know his best 11 or how to play and hasn’t since the start of last season.2
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Agreed. The time to do it would have been well before the end of the transfer window, it's madness to do it 1 day after the window closesSouthWest_Addicks said:Would have made the decision after the Rochdale game. Think it would have been the time to make the decision. However, didn’t happen and I respect TS decision for sticking with Bowyer. Would be shocked if Bowyer didn’t last the season.
Robbo went 4 wins in 19 before resigning in 2018. Bowyer is now 4 wins in 17.
I'd give it until say 6 games before the end, long enough for Bowyer to have a decent crack at the playoffs now. If we're out of contention by this point, it would make sense to make the change then to give the new person all summer to change things (and decide which players to retain etc)
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This is bang on the money. Everyone wants everything instantly in this day and age - it doesn't work like that I'm afraid. Bowyer has earned the opportunity to get a proper season with backing from a proper owner. And no, that earned season is not this season. Putting together a squad in two weeks in the middle of a pandemic does not constitute a proper crack at it.ColinTat said:It wouldn't be acceptable if we had to sell our best player to build a stand? It wouldn't be acceptable if we had to rebuild a squad after losing all our major players? The 90-91 to 92-93 squads had continuity, only forced to sell Rob Lee: Can't think of many others moving on to better things. Andy Peake and Gordon Watson? From 18-19 to 20-21 we have none of our main players left barring Pearce.
Jackett's had four seasons to build a squad in League One. Sunderland three. Robinson had two and got nowhere near. We should be better, but expecting everything to click in one season without anywhere near proper planning is crazy.
If it looks like we're getting nowhere by Christmas, then let's reassess. It took us three seasons to get out of this league on the last two occasions we were down here. I'm still expecting us to do it sooner than that but to bounce straight back up was always going to be a tall order. I think people have been a bit spoiled by that stupendous run of form through October/November.11 -
I think questioning Bows achievement to get us promoted is harsh to be honest when you consider the mess going on around him at the time. My concern is that he is looking like a great manager when in the trenches fighting but now things have settled down is clearly struggling.
I don't get the constant tinkering, and he needs to find his first choice 11 fast but given the backing he has just had I think he has a bit longer to turn things around. If we miss the playoffs then it's time for a change of approach.
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Can we afford to fail both this season and next?Callumcafc said:
This is bang on the money. Everyone wants everything instantly in this day and age - it doesn't work like that I'm afraid. Bowyer has earned the opportunity to get a proper season with backing from a proper owner. And no, that earned season is not this season. Putting together a squad in two weeks in the middle of a pandemic does not constitute a proper crack at it.ColinTat said:It wouldn't be acceptable if we had to sell our best player to build a stand? It wouldn't be acceptable if we had to rebuild a squad after losing all our major players? The 90-91 to 92-93 squads had continuity, only forced to sell Rob Lee: Can't think of many others moving on to better things. Andy Peake and Gordon Watson? From 18-19 to 20-21 we have none of our main players left barring Pearce.
Jackett's had four seasons to build a squad in League One. Sunderland three. Robinson had two and got nowhere near. We should be better, but expecting everything to click in one season without anywhere near proper planning is crazy.
If it looks like we're getting nowhere by Christmas, then let's reassess.1 -
So we shouldn't be allowed to have a manager who can achieve it. Be realistic and put up with shite!agim said:
You were saying it like we have the right to automatically get promoted. We don't and some of our fans need to be realistic.Todds_right_hook said:
Okay, let’s pretend we aren’t currently in league 1agim said:
Another it's only League one quote.Todds_right_hook said:
This is league 1, an awful league one at that. On current former, bowyer is taking us to our worst league position in most Charlton supporters life times.ForeverAddickted said:Its potentially an interesting discussion for another thread
But is it a sign of how Technology has changed since 1992 what with the introduction of Internet Forums etc.
My point is in 1991/92 we finished 7th under Curbs and Gritt
The following year we had a period were we got 14-points from seventeen games, ended up 12th in the League
This season we're going through a period of 18-points from seventeen games
Should Curbs and Gritt have gone?Can’t really compare to grit and curbs in a league above1 -
Of course we don’t have an automatic right to get promoted but it would be nice to see some semblance of a settled team, some semblance of a game plan, some idea of tactics. I don’t have a problem losing but at least give them a game. I’m done with Bowyer.agim said:
You were saying it like we have the right to automatically get promoted. We don't and some of our fans need to be realistic.Todds_right_hook said:
Okay, let’s pretend we aren’t currently in league 1agim said:
Another it's only League one quote.Todds_right_hook said:
This is league 1, an awful league one at that. On current former, bowyer is taking us to our worst league position in most Charlton supporters life times.ForeverAddickted said:Its potentially an interesting discussion for another thread
But is it a sign of how Technology has changed since 1992 what with the introduction of Internet Forums etc.
My point is in 1991/92 we finished 7th under Curbs and Gritt
The following year we had a period were we got 14-points from seventeen games, ended up 12th in the League
This season we're going through a period of 18-points from seventeen games
Should Curbs and Gritt have gone?Can’t really compare to grit and curbs in a league above3 -
How did you get to that conclusion from me saying you can’t compare a league 1 season with a championship season?agim said:
You were saying it like we have the right to automatically get promoted. We don't and some of our fans need to be realistic.Todds_right_hook said:
Okay, let’s pretend we aren’t currently in league 1agim said:
Another it's only League one quote.Todds_right_hook said:
This is league 1, an awful league one at that. On current former, bowyer is taking us to our worst league position in most Charlton supporters life times.ForeverAddickted said:Its potentially an interesting discussion for another thread
But is it a sign of how Technology has changed since 1992 what with the introduction of Internet Forums etc.
My point is in 1991/92 we finished 7th under Curbs and Gritt
The following year we had a period were we got 14-points from seventeen games, ended up 12th in the League
This season we're going through a period of 18-points from seventeen games
Should Curbs and Gritt have gone?Can’t really compare to grit and curbs in a league above
very weird1 -
We might not have a choice... Whether Bowyer goes or stays, there is no guarantee we'll go up under the next manDazzler21 said:
Can we afford to fail both this season and next?Callumcafc said:
This is bang on the money. Everyone wants everything instantly in this day and age - it doesn't work like that I'm afraid. Bowyer has earned the opportunity to get a proper season with backing from a proper owner. And no, that earned season is not this season. Putting together a squad in two weeks in the middle of a pandemic does not constitute a proper crack at it.ColinTat said:It wouldn't be acceptable if we had to sell our best player to build a stand? It wouldn't be acceptable if we had to rebuild a squad after losing all our major players? The 90-91 to 92-93 squads had continuity, only forced to sell Rob Lee: Can't think of many others moving on to better things. Andy Peake and Gordon Watson? From 18-19 to 20-21 we have none of our main players left barring Pearce.
Jackett's had four seasons to build a squad in League One. Sunderland three. Robinson had two and got nowhere near. We should be better, but expecting everything to click in one season without anywhere near proper planning is crazy.
If it looks like we're getting nowhere by Christmas, then let's reassess.
Said it before but its taken: Parkinson | Peacock | Powell | Slade | Nugent | Robinson | Bowyer (Yup I've added the caretakers for dramatic effect) to get us out of this league - Absolutely no guarantee the next bloke whoever he is wont put us even further behind schedule0 -
We weren't a mess 2 years ago. Yes Roland wanted out, but that had been drifting on for an eternity without really affecting anything. He was given a budget to bring in players, and he and Gallen were left along to assemble a decent team.IanJRO said:I think questioning Bows achievement to get us promoted is harsh to be honest when you consider the mess going on around him at the time. My concern is that he is looking like a great manager when in the trenches fighting but now things have settled down is clearly struggling.
I don't get the constant tinkering, and he needs to find his first choice 11 fast but given the backing he has just had I think he has a bit longer to turn things around. If we miss the playoffs then it's time for a change of approach.
The mess only really started with ESI. If Roland had owned us throughout 2019/20 I suspect we would have made a better fist of the second half of the season than what ESI caused3 -
Since Charlton entered League football they have spentagim said:
Another it's only League one quote.Todds_right_hook said:
This is league 1, an awful league one at that. On current former, bowyer is taking us to our worst league position in most Charlton supporters life times.ForeverAddickted said:Its potentially an interesting discussion for another thread
But is it a sign of how Technology has changed since 1992 what with the introduction of Internet Forums etc.
My point is in 1991/92 we finished 7th under Curbs and Gritt
The following year we had a period were we got 14-points from seventeen games, ended up 12th in the League
This season we're going through a period of 18-points from seventeen games
Should Curbs and Gritt have gone?Can’t really compare to grit and curbs in a league above
26 seasons in the top flight
46 seasons in the 2nd tier
21 seasons in the 3rd tier
Of the 21 seasons in the 3rd tier 8 were our first 8 seasons of league football
In the time we left the third tier for the first time in 1929 till 11 seasons ago we spent 6 seasons out of 74 in the third tier
These last 11 seasons we have spent 7 in League One
Make no mistake these are the shittiest seasons in our footballing history .
Call me a football snob or whatever but I'm not accepting of us being in the third tier and one as shit as this , no thanks10
This discussion has been closed.
