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Soccer Saturday shakeup
Comments
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Indeed. Currently, one of the lowest attaining sections of society in education is white working class males. It always makes me laugh when wealthy white university 'educated' liberals (because it's usually them, rather than anyone from any actual minorities) lecture them about white privilege...and by that, I mean it shows it for the lunacy it is as a concept.
The 'diversity' industry is largely a scam, albeit a recent one. It has to keep driving resentment, victimhood and division in order to continue to justify its own existence. They simply have to conjure up victims and then offer to remedy the situation, for a small fee, of course. Oldest trick in the book.
We could do a lot worse than rewind a bit to the teachings of MLK, IMHO, because we appear to have lost the plot somewhere along the way.7 -
White working class males don't make it to the top because they are lazy though....
Change the first or fourth word in that sentence and you're cancelled.1 -
Lots of scared people on this thread0
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I am seeing gentle push back from many white people who are getting fed up with BLM. I think this is sad as these people are not your EDL types and are mostly decent people. An example is, 'It is starting to annoy me that I can't call them coloured' (which really shocked me) or 'it is going too far now'. I think a big reason is it is difficult to put yourself in the shoes of black people. It worries me as the wrong sort of people may seek to use this.2
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I quite like Stelling and Merson but couldn’t really care about the others.
And if one is replaced by the lovely Alex Scott it would be a bonus.
However, I do think that there may be a bit of Ageism going on here.
Although that -ism is hardly ever recognised.0 -
If the whole diversity argument is handled badly which invariably it will be it will cause a huge amount of resentment and ultimately make things worse. I wish for a diverse society where everyone gets a fair chance but to achieve this you need 'intelligent' people in charge and clear goals.bigstemarra said:Indeed. Currently, one of the lowest attaining sections of society in education is white working class males. It always makes me laugh when wealthy white university 'educated' liberals (because it's usually them, rather than anyone from any actual minorities) lecture them about white privilege...and by that, I mean it shows it for the lunacy it is as a concept.
The 'diversity' industry is largely a scam, albeit a recent one. It has to keep driving resentment, victimhood and division in order to continue to justify its own existence. They simply have to conjure up victims and then offer to remedy the situation, for a small fee, of course. Oldest trick in the book.
We could do a lot worse than rewind a bit to the teachings of MLK, IMHO, because we appear to have lost the plot somewhere along the way.
It's easy enough to identify a problem and bang on about it but ultimately much harder to identify to find a solution.
Some of the grandstanding on this issue from figures on both the left and the right seems designed to me to make things worse.
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They had to keep Merson in order to
maintain the correct diversity/thick as pig shit balance with Clinton O’Morrison.2 -
There are stupid people everywhere.SuedeAdidas said:They had to keep Merson in order to
maintain the correct diversity/thick as pig shit balance with Clinton O’Morrison.0 -
Merson takes it to a new level. Morrison is dreadful too btw.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
There are stupid people everywhere.SuedeAdidas said:They had to keep Merson in order to
maintain the correct diversity/thick as pig shit balance with Clinton O’Morrison.0 -
Lazy and unnecessary.se9addick said:Lots of scared people on this thread
Address people's points and concerns rather than insult them.
This is partly my point. If people are scared or fearful they may make bad choices out of fear and that is how populism and far right political parties flourish as they have throughout history. That is very bad for what is trying to be achieved and counterproductive to it.
It is not helpful to mock people who feel fear that they will be discriminated against and leaves many feeling disenfranchised or marginalised and seeking a voice or understanding and is actually very counterproductive to what we should be trying to achieve as progressive societies.
The implication that white, straight, middle aged, males are anywhere on the spectrum from privileged to the enemy of mankind as it appears in the mindset of many vocal loons has the danger of knocking the self esteem of those who fall into that category and making them feel unrccessary guilt at best and create resentment and marginalisation leading to dangerous political choices at worst particularly if they do not perceive any of the privilege they so possess in their day to day lives.
Certain "politicians" like Trump and right wing in Europe have capitalised on and cynically exploited this in recent years whilst many on the left instead of addressing the fears and explaining things to bring people together have unintentionally contributed to the alienation by talking down to people, insulting them and just belittling their views and concerns which whilst misguided may be very real to them and their circumstances.
It is a recipe for disaster to alienate and marginalise people whatever walk of life they're from when trying to strive for a progressive, harmonious and happy society.10 - Sponsored links:
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Really? Three mediocre football pundits have been given the boot and people have lost their minds over it. Have Sky even said who the replacements will be?RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
Lazy and unnecessary.se9addick said:Lots of scared people on this thread
Address people's points and concerns rather than insult them.
This is partly my point. If people are scared or fearful they may make bad choices out of fear and that is how populism and far right political parties flourish as they have throughout history. That is very bad for what is trying to be achieved and counterproductive to it.
It is not helpful to mock people who feel fear that they will be discriminated against and leaves many feeling disenfranchised or marginalised and seeking a voice or understanding and is actually very counterproductive to what we should be trying to achieve as progressive societies.
The implication that white, straight, middle aged, males are anywhere on the spectrum from privileged to the enemy of mankind as it appears in the mindset of many vocal loons has the danger of knocking the self esteem of those who fall into that category and making them feel unrccessary guilt at best and create resentment and marginalisation leading to dangerous political choices at worst particularly if they do not perceive any of the privilege they so possess in their day to day lives.
Certain "politicians" like Trump and right wing in Europe have capitalised on and cynically exploited this in recent years whilst many on the left instead of addressing the fears and explaining things to bring people together have unintentionally contributed to the alienation by talking down to people, insulting them and just belittling their views and concerns which whilst misguided may be very real to them and their circumstances.
It is a recipe for disaster to alienate and marginalise people whatever walk of life they're from when trying to strive for a progressive, harmonious and happy society.5 -
Jeff Stelling reported as 'contemplating his future'' with sky0
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Ok, my apologies @se9addick I thought it was in reference to the stuff about positive discrimination. I will stop derailing the thread now!se9addick said:
Really? Three mediocre football pundits have been given the boot and people have lost their minds over it. Have Sky even said who the replacements will be?RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
Lazy and unnecessary.se9addick said:Lots of scared people on this thread
Address people's points and concerns rather than insult them.
This is partly my point. If people are scared or fearful they may make bad choices out of fear and that is how populism and far right political parties flourish as they have throughout history. That is very bad for what is trying to be achieved and counterproductive to it.
It is not helpful to mock people who feel fear that they will be discriminated against and leaves many feeling disenfranchised or marginalised and seeking a voice or understanding and is actually very counterproductive to what we should be trying to achieve as progressive societies.
The implication that white, straight, middle aged, males are anywhere on the spectrum from privileged to the enemy of mankind as it appears in the mindset of many vocal loons has the danger of knocking the self esteem of those who fall into that category and making them feel unrccessary guilt at best and create resentment and marginalisation leading to dangerous political choices at worst particularly if they do not perceive any of the privilege they so possess in their day to day lives.
Certain "politicians" like Trump and right wing in Europe have capitalised on and cynically exploited this in recent years whilst many on the left instead of addressing the fears and explaining things to bring people together have unintentionally contributed to the alienation by talking down to people, insulting them and just belittling their views and concerns which whilst misguided may be very real to them and their circumstances.
It is a recipe for disaster to alienate and marginalise people whatever walk of life they're from when trying to strive for a progressive, harmonious and happy society.1 -
With Saturday 3 o’clock kick offs live on tv now perhaps the whole format needs changing.0
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Strange as he tweeted the other day when the news came out saying that he had no intention of leaving - Unless he knows who their replacements are and doesnt like who it isPrincessFiona said:Jeff Stelling reported as 'contemplating his future'' with sky0 -
I think Amazon showed the way when they had their two rounds of PL fixtures. The most fun I've had watching Prem football in ages, because they zipped around between games, showing the latest goals going in. It meant I got the excitement and drama without having to sit through the dross. And as a neutral, which the vast majority of viewers are one way or another, that is a big thing.kentred2 said:With Saturday 3 o’clock kick offs live on tv now perhaps the whole format needs changing.2 -
It kinda was, but agree that we should leave it there.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
Ok, my apologies @se9addick I thought it was in reference to the stuff about positive discrimination. I will stop derailing the thread now!se9addick said:
Really? Three mediocre football pundits have been given the boot and people have lost their minds over it. Have Sky even said who the replacements will be?RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
Lazy and unnecessary.se9addick said:Lots of scared people on this thread
Address people's points and concerns rather than insult them.
This is partly my point. If people are scared or fearful they may make bad choices out of fear and that is how populism and far right political parties flourish as they have throughout history. That is very bad for what is trying to be achieved and counterproductive to it.
It is not helpful to mock people who feel fear that they will be discriminated against and leaves many feeling disenfranchised or marginalised and seeking a voice or understanding and is actually very counterproductive to what we should be trying to achieve as progressive societies.
The implication that white, straight, middle aged, males are anywhere on the spectrum from privileged to the enemy of mankind as it appears in the mindset of many vocal loons has the danger of knocking the self esteem of those who fall into that category and making them feel unrccessary guilt at best and create resentment and marginalisation leading to dangerous political choices at worst particularly if they do not perceive any of the privilege they so possess in their day to day lives.
Certain "politicians" like Trump and right wing in Europe have capitalised on and cynically exploited this in recent years whilst many on the left instead of addressing the fears and explaining things to bring people together have unintentionally contributed to the alienation by talking down to people, insulting them and just belittling their views and concerns which whilst misguided may be very real to them and their circumstances.
It is a recipe for disaster to alienate and marginalise people whatever walk of life they're from when trying to strive for a progressive, harmonious and happy society.1 -
Ok fair enough. Agreed.se9addick said:
It kinda was, but agree that we should leave it there.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
Ok, my apologies @se9addick I thought it was in reference to the stuff about positive discrimination. I will stop derailing the thread now!se9addick said:
Really? Three mediocre football pundits have been given the boot and people have lost their minds over it. Have Sky even said who the replacements will be?RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
Lazy and unnecessary.se9addick said:Lots of scared people on this thread
Address people's points and concerns rather than insult them.
This is partly my point. If people are scared or fearful they may make bad choices out of fear and that is how populism and far right political parties flourish as they have throughout history. That is very bad for what is trying to be achieved and counterproductive to it.
It is not helpful to mock people who feel fear that they will be discriminated against and leaves many feeling disenfranchised or marginalised and seeking a voice or understanding and is actually very counterproductive to what we should be trying to achieve as progressive societies.
The implication that white, straight, middle aged, males are anywhere on the spectrum from privileged to the enemy of mankind as it appears in the mindset of many vocal loons has the danger of knocking the self esteem of those who fall into that category and making them feel unrccessary guilt at best and create resentment and marginalisation leading to dangerous political choices at worst particularly if they do not perceive any of the privilege they so possess in their day to day lives.
Certain "politicians" like Trump and right wing in Europe have capitalised on and cynically exploited this in recent years whilst many on the left instead of addressing the fears and explaining things to bring people together have unintentionally contributed to the alienation by talking down to people, insulting them and just belittling their views and concerns which whilst misguided may be very real to them and their circumstances.
It is a recipe for disaster to alienate and marginalise people whatever walk of life they're from when trying to strive for a progressive, harmonious and happy society.0 -
I am confident that Sky will continue to deal with this in a half-arsed way which will just generate more trouble.
I didn't realise the three pundits had a year left on their contracts so I'm curious what they have been sacked for? Sky could have just waited a year and then made the changes in a more timely manner.
It looks like an ill thought out knee jerk reaction to something made by incompetent managers.2 -
Till the interview and then they come back strongly.bigstemarra said:Impersonal it may be, but I would imagine removing names and identifying material from job applications is probably the best way that we currently have to remove bias. Bring it on.0 - Sponsored links:
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I know you’re intelligent, but it baffles me that you can write something like this and apparently actually believe it.bigstemarra said:PaddyP17 said:
This sort of thing is probably for the politics board so I will keep my response as short as possible. However, as your man bigstemarra has produced this gambit I feel I should respond and address a few things:bigstemarra said:
Does anyone at any of these organisations have a brain, let alone a spine? Is being called racist by a tiny minority of social media half wits who consider everything from cereal to correct grammar to also be racist so bad that you have to cave in and do everything that they say? Anyone with any intelligence knows that if you appease the mob, then they will demand more and more until you are destroyed anyway. You can NEVER satisfy the woke mob. For them, you can never be pure enough - witness the Puritans turn on each other when they can't find any other easy victims for their pious witch-hunt. These people are pathetic, idiotic bullies and should be told where to go, IMHO.Garrymanilow said:Sky have got rid of Scott Minto now. That one is mystifying to me. He's articulate, knowledgeable and works well with the guests. Plus he was actually pro-Charlton which was nice to see
Change may be needed, but it is done in such a sweeping, cack-handed manner that it only serves to alienate the majority (remember, 90% odd people in this country still have the skin colour that is now openly despised by many British institutions, judging by their actions). How is 'I hate you whitey, please buy my product' a remotely sensible business strategy, let alone in a majority white country?
Ian Wright (a man that I have a lot of respect and affection for) is correct. He is replying to those who are showing a knee jerk reaction to the predictable 'diversity' (aka less white people) narrative that has become all consuming in the last few months. There is real anger now - the BBC appears to be a turkey voting for Christmas with its latest Proms debacle, for example. However, being a racist prick on Twitter is hardly an appropriate response in any situation, as if IW needed to point this out. I agree that Alex Scott and Micah Richards are good at their jobs, but if others such as Clinton Morrison get the gig, then it is clear that this is another ill judged, knee jerk response and the argument that positions have been filled due to talent rather than tokenism will be obliterated. Sacking Minto due to his skin colour (which is obviously the case, no matter what pathetic excuse is offered) means that whoever fills his shoes will be perceived, rightly or wrongly, to only have been hired due their skin colour. Hooray for racism!
All decisions made by British institutions right now appear to be about supinely bowing to a Twitter online woke hate mob so that this tiny minority does not take aim at them and looks for someone else to bully. It may be an effective short-term strategy, but long term it is likely to be disastrous. Positive discrimination is still racism and if anyone thinks that the way to address racism is more racism, then they must be the kind of person that thinks a Gender Studies degree makes them intelligent.
This is one of the least racist places on Earth, but the backlash that will be caused by all of this wokery may ironically end up producing the opposite effect to which the woke folk purport to want. The next election will be interesting in this respect, I fear. If you keep labelling people 'far right' for having a sense of pride in their country and culture in such a 'cry wolf' fashion, then eventually actual far right politics will lose its stigma and the real thing will emerge; something that has been notably absent of late in comparison to other European countries. Not bad for a supposed racist hell hole.
I was raised to believe in the ideals of MLK - colour blindness is the only way that humanity can progress, IMHO. But now that has all been trashed by racist 'anti-racists' - I mean we are now seeing the re-instigation of colour based segregation in the US, for example. How is this progress? The concept of 'white guilt' for actions committed by long dead ancestors is the definition of racism. Should I get with the programme and go out and punch a German or Japanese because their forefathers tried to kill my Grandparents in WWII? Obviously not, because the concept is bullshit. Identity politics as a whole is divisive, dangerous bollocks which splits people up, rather than bringing them together. When the dust settles, it will be clear that it has inflamed racist sentiments on all sides, rather than decreasing them. Slow hand clap.....
Sorry for the rant, but this is another symptom of a general malaise; the whole thing is depressing, idiotic and counterproductive to me.
- First off this is a bit of a ridiculous caricature. And the sacking of these three guys was something that literally no one was calling for? If this is a by-product of "woke culture" then I'm as surprised at its efficacy as the next person.
- What institutions "openly despise" white people? This is such a fucking rich statement. You feel as if the majority are those being persecuted in this country?! Windrush. Stephen Lawrence. On a similar note, least racist is still racist. The very fact that Alex Scott and Micah Richards were trending on Twitter after Sky's decision shows an immediate and unhealthy jump to conclusions by the "PC gone mad" mob, to paraphrase your rhetoric.
- "Positive discrimination is still racism" just no. This is a discussion for a different forum but I can't let a statement like this ride unchecked - positive discrimination is in place to help ensure an equal footing where systemic racism or other institutional barriers has prevented such from occurring. Is it always applied perfectly? No. But it's overall better than "meritocracy", which at the moment does not truly exist in this country (but we are getting there).
- Who's labelling people far right and what the hell has this got to do with Soccer Saturday? What has ANY of that last paragraph got to do with Soccer Saturday? What colour based segregation is going on?! AND WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH SOCCER SATURDAY?!
I could go into much more depth but I won't, and unless any response to this post is solely linked to Soccer Saturday and the decisions made by Sky Sports in recent days, then this will be my last post on this thread on the wider ranging issues of race in this country (and, apparently, abroad).
4. Anyone who disagrees with BLM, a Marxist, racist movement that wants to abolish the police, amongst other lunatic things, is labelled far right and often hounded out of their livelihood.0 -
Maybe so - no system is perfect. At least it may help to get them to the interview in the first place, I suppose.SELR_addicks said:
Till the interview and then they come back strongly.bigstemarra said:Impersonal it may be, but I would imagine removing names and identifying material from job applications is probably the best way that we currently have to remove bias. Bring it on.
Some minority folks lose out on opportunities due to racism.
Some white folks lose out on opportunities due to racism (i.e 'positive' discrimination).
Short of going full Big Brother and having everyone watched 24/7 - we are left to find imperfect solutions to life as perfect ones simply don't exist, so we have what we have. My point was that identity politics does not help to solve these problems - if anything, it does the opposite as it puts people in different boxes and 'others' others, rather than trying to make people think of others as just that, i.e people. This is the opposite of what MLK advocated.
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I agree with you that some of the current debate seems intent on dividing rather than unifying.bigstemarra said:
Maybe so - no system is perfect. At least it may help to get them to the interview in the first place, I suppose.SELR_addicks said:
Till the interview and then they come back strongly.bigstemarra said:Impersonal it may be, but I would imagine removing names and identifying material from job applications is probably the best way that we currently have to remove bias. Bring it on.
Some minority folks lose out on opportunities due to racism.
Some white folks lose out on opportunities due to racism (i.e 'positive' discrimination).
Short of going full Big Brother and having everyone watched 24/7 - we are left to find imperfect solutions to life as perfect ones simply don't exist, so we have what we have. My point was that identity politics does not help to solve these problems - if anything, it does the opposite as it puts people in different boxes and 'others' others, rather than trying to make people think of others as just that, i.e people. This is the opposite of what MLK advocated.1 -
I get the point about ageism and I speak as someone who is now 60. In a profession with lots of opportunities for jobs e.g. teaching, nursing, retail (albeit fewer opportunities in senior roles), I wouldn’t say get rid of the older staff to create opportunities for others as a matter of policy. However TV roles are a limited field with lots of competition and the alternative to freshening up the line up is to take the approach that the jobs yours with no chance for others in the future as long as you don’t foul up big time. These guys had all had the job for many years and despite a few irritations are still competent. Moving 3 on at once is a big statement but probably a degree of complacency had crept in.EastTerrace said:I quite like Stelling and Merson but couldn’t really care about the others.
And if one is replaced by the lovely Alex Scott it would be a bonus.
However, I do think that there may be a bit of Ageism going on here.
Although that -ism is hardly ever recognised.Personally in recent years my favourite younger pundits has been Liam RoseniorAs long as they don’t let Lee Bowyer anywhere near it again!!!0 -
Just seen that the 'ex West Ham and Chelsea' defender Scott Minto has been axed.4
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Looking like a very good thing that Le Tiss has gone now lol1
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It was only a matter of time before he stopped skirting the line and stepped over it.colthe3rd said:
I'm certain part of the reason they got rid of him was he was a ticking time bomb.PaddyP17 said:Looking like a very good thing that Le Tiss has gone now lol
But then they were obviously planning a shake up and new faces anyway given he's not the only one.0 -
I get the reasons for axing Thompson, Nicholas and Le Tissier. But scratching my head regarding Minto as he was someone who knew his stuff and delivered in an intelligent and coherent manner.11
