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Derby County and Sheffield Wednesday - What is happening?
Comments
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Tax evasion and fraud should mean being dispelled from the Football LeagueDazzler21 said:Deduct
12 points from Birmingham,
20 points from Derby for a spurious dispute
and
20 points from Sheffield for tax evasion and fraudulent activity towards the EFL.5 -
The EFL is a limited company, seemingly bankrupt, with undisclosed creditors of £145m, and this is before legal action.bobmunro said:
The EFL are a member organisation - it is up to the members (the 72) to determine whether or not the EFL is fit for purpose, and if not whether it should be replaced.Sarrf_London said:This is a massive can of worms. By taking retrospective and late action on imprecise rules, the EFL are opening themselves up to massive legal issues from clubs denied the Premiership due to cheating.
Such action may lead the EFL into liquidation and a replacement organisation formed. Can only be good for football.
But I am in the pub so may be wrong.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00080612
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Had a quick look. Not a stellar balance sheet, but debtors of £131m and cash of £83m. Creditors under 1 year of £160m. Current ratio thus 1.34, so solvent enough.Sarrf_London said:
The EFL is a limited company, seemingly bankrupt, with undisclosed creditors of £145m, and this is before legal action.bobmunro said:
The EFL are a member organisation - it is up to the members (the 72) to determine whether or not the EFL is fit for purpose, and if not whether it should be replaced.Sarrf_London said:This is a massive can of worms. By taking retrospective and late action on imprecise rules, the EFL are opening themselves up to massive legal issues from clubs denied the Premiership due to cheating.
Such action may lead the EFL into liquidation and a replacement organisation formed. Can only be good for football.
But I am in the pub so may be wrong.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/000806122 -
Wait until they are mathematically safe, then dock points. The EFL then state that they took a firm line, the clubs survive and save the embarrassing process for the EFL of appealing and dragging it out for another 18 months.
Very simple if you are found guilty hand the punishment out straight away with a 28 day deadline to appeal.
Then again it's the EFL3 -
From Owlstalk:
An EFL spokesman said it would "clearly be inappropriate" to comment specifically on matters linked to their "comprehensive investigation. Other than to reiterate that, following the review of a large number of documents provided by the club - some of those seen for the first time - evidence came to light to justify multiple charges of misconduct."
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Does this man that Katie's email chats with @cabbles where she admits she didn't have a clue what she was doing have come to light?stonemuse said:From Owlstalk:
An EFL spokesman said it would "clearly be inappropriate" to comment specifically on matters linked to their "comprehensive investigation. Other than to reiterate that, following the review of a large number of documents provided by the club - some of those seen for the first time - evidence came to light to justify multiple charges of misconduct."1 -
Good job its not the PL in charge, otherwise they wouldnt deduct any points as it "wouldn't be fair on their fans"
c West Ham in 2007.6 -
In the crazy world of football that we play in today, this is so wrong to be arguing around these remote financial arguments rather than whose team is the best.
But it is at the same point nowadays really vital as money is so much the real key now. Also everyone seems to be having odd financial arrangements (not least us, we'll buy the club now and the ground in 6 months) or chancing their arm as in these examples
So my conclusion is this is an important subject/ thread and some real quality comments as well. A really interesting read. Thanks1 -
Should either club be docked 12 points, putting them into the dogfight I would think that both would be strong enough to stay out of the drop zone in the final reckoning.0
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Derby have the hardest fixture list (on paper) in the entire league.
They have already played everyone in the bottom 8.
I had them eyed up as one that could plummet into a dogfight and that’s before any potential points deduction2 - Sponsored links:
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The team to plummet is Hull in my eyes.0
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stackitsteve said:Derby have the hardest fixture list (on paper) in the entire league.
They have already played everyone in the bottom 8.
I had them eyed up as one that could plummet into a dogfight and that’s before any potential points deduction
Agree both, but Sheffield Wednesday are in deep. They have quite a few out of contract at the end of this season and as the punishment is likely to be points, fine, and a transfer embargo they could be in trouble even if they stay up this season.cafc_se7 said:The team to plummet is Hull in my eyes.1 -
Great analysis and commentary from Muttley0
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Except bringing FORWARD the date you recognise income in your books isn’t tax evasion. I don’t think anyone is suggesting tax evasion are they? (Other than you two!)Athletico Charlton said:
Tax evasion and fraud should mean being dispelled from the Football LeagueDazzler21 said:Deduct
12 points from Birmingham,
20 points from Derby for a spurious dispute
and
20 points from Sheffield for tax evasion and fraudulent activity towards the EFL.0 -
We don't know the terms of over 1 year debtors/creditors but they have a negative balance sheet of half a million, and why do they have pension debtors of nearly six million, a P&L item? In my experience, declared, underfunded, pension funds are the tip of an iceberg. Billions have just been wiped off FTSE due to Novovirus, how big is the deficit now?IdleHans said:
Had a quick look. Not a stellar balance sheet, but debtors of £131m and cash of £83m. Creditors under 1 year of £160m. Current ratio thus 1.34, so solvent enough.Sarrf_London said:
The EFL is a limited company, seemingly bankrupt, with undisclosed creditors of £145m, and this is before legal action.bobmunro said:
The EFL are a member organisation - it is up to the members (the 72) to determine whether or not the EFL is fit for purpose, and if not whether it should be replaced.Sarrf_London said:This is a massive can of worms. By taking retrospective and late action on imprecise rules, the EFL are opening themselves up to massive legal issues from clubs denied the Premiership due to cheating.
Such action may lead the EFL into liquidation and a replacement organisation formed. Can only be good for football.
But I am in the pub so may be wrong.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00080612
I certainly wouldn't invest in the Football League Limited.0 -
what’s happening?
slightly clever people at some football clubs are driving great big buses through the flimsy financial regulations while cheerfully flipping Vs to all critics
the supposed authority the EFL has sat by and even rubber stamped certain transactions and their subsequent reporting
wider attention has been drawn to the flagrant bus driving and the complicit EFL gravy train suppers are lamely kicking the cans down the road hoping to punt them into the longest grass when nobody’s looking
one of the former bus conductors was a Belgian lawyer with no football management experience or skill who subsequently exited stage left
some commentators bang on relentlessly about points deductions to be imposed on transgressors but this is little more than daydreaming given the risible inadequacy of the relevant authority the EFL
in short - nothing to see here please go about your business1 -
Give Fletcher a personal punishment of bad sex and shit wine, for life...0
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Apologies i misunderstood what they'd done. Still 20 point deduction for being massively overratedOff_it said:
Except bringing FORWARD the date you recognise income in your books isn’t tax evasion. I don’t think anyone is suggesting tax evasion are they? (Other than you two!)Athletico Charlton said:
Tax evasion and fraud should mean being dispelled from the Football LeagueDazzler21 said:Deduct
12 points from Birmingham,
20 points from Derby for a spurious dispute
and
20 points from Sheffield for tax evasion and fraudulent activity towards the EFL.
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The EFL are always dammed if they do, or don't.
They are always blamed for everything, by everyone. 3 teams will be relegated from the championship this season, at least ones fans, collectively, will blame the EFL.
Their take over took to long.
Their take over wasn't fit and proper.
Birmingham should have been relegated with a points deduction.
Birmingham shouldn't have been relegated with a points deduction.
FFP works and stopped us sending money we wanted to (Stoke).
FFP doesnt work so we had no chance.
You get my point. People say the EFL aren't "fit for purpose". Of course they aren't, if you totally miss the purpose of the EFL.
The problem is the owners, the players and the fans. Everybody wants to both have thier cake and to eat it, they also want it now.
Everyone wants an owner who acts and cares like Andy Holt but has the pockets of Sheikh Mansour. It's not the EFL's fault their isnt 71 of them to go around.
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On the tram back to the hotel last night, I got talking to a few Owls fans, To state the obvious they are very worried. Cynically they hope that as their owner is VERY wealthy, a huge fine will get them off the hook and they will not have points deducted.0
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Birmingham seem to have been cleared by independent disciplinary commission
EFL Statement: Birmingham City
The EFL notes the decision made by the independent Disciplinary Commission in dismissing a misconduct charge brought by the EFL against Birmingham City in May 2019.
That charge alleged the Club failed to adhere to elements of a business plan agreed with the Club following an earlier breach of Profitability and Sustainability Rules.
The decision remains subject to appeal and the League will consider the judgment in full before making any further comment.
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I down, 2 to go.
So it seems like you can exceed FFP, get a points deduction, but still benefit from it by still having the players there that caused it.
Nothings changed since the Tevez affair then7 -
Birmingham certainly have cut costs and sold Che Adams last summer for a big fee, whereas Wednesday and Derby to me seem far more likely to be guiltygolfaddick said:I down, 2 to go.
So it seems like you can exceed FFP, get a points deduction, but still benefit from it by still having the players there that caused it.
Nothings changed since the Tevez affair then0 -
So, is their verdict imminent?killerandflash said:
Birmingham certainly have cut costs and sold Che Adams last summer for a big fee, whereas Wednesday and Derby to me seem far more likely to be guiltygolfaddick said:I down, 2 to go.
So it seems like you can exceed FFP, get a points deduction, but still benefit from it by still having the players there that caused it.
Nothings changed since the Tevez affair then0 -
Wasn't Birmingham issue that they didn't sell Adams in January, instead waited for the summer and got a bigger fee. Can see why the EFL lost that one0
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No idea BUT with the Birmingham announcement AND last year's Birmingham announcement also being made in March, surely it has to be soon?The_President said:
So, is their verdict imminent?killerandflash said:
Birmingham certainly have cut costs and sold Che Adams last summer for a big fee, whereas Wednesday and Derby to me seem far more likely to be guiltygolfaddick said:I down, 2 to go.
So it seems like you can exceed FFP, get a points deduction, but still benefit from it by still having the players there that caused it.
Nothings changed since the Tevez affair then
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Birmingham certainly won't have any issues next season given that half of Europe is supposedly trying to sign Bellingham for 30m+ this summer.0
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I dont see how they are even getting that, he is 16 years old, he cant sign a pro contract until he is 17.Chris_from_Sidcup said:Birmingham certainly won't have any issues next season given that half of Europe is supposedly trying to sign Bellingham for 30m+ this summer.
He doesnt turn 17 until 29th June, not sure how junior contracts work but surely he can just sign for a club abroad and a compensation package has to be agreed that wont be anywhere near £30 Million.
I could be wrong about that tho and Birmingham could already have a contract agreed with him for when he turns 17 so they get money but wasnt sure that was allowed0 -
So what you are saying that it's ok for us to sign Bellingham & Mitrovic next season for a combined £60m. In 3 years time find that we have exceeded FFP rules & get told we must raise money to make up the shortfall in the January. We have a bid in for Dougherty for £5m but we refuse it as we know we can get more in the summer.BigRedEvil said:Wasn't Birmingham issue that they didn't sell Adams in January, instead waited for the summer and got a bigger fee. Can see why the EFL lost that one
Seems like 2 wrongs DO make a right.
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But Birmingham didn’t spend £60m on two players and off set it by selling someone for £5m 3 years latergolfaddick said:
So what you are saying that it's ok for us to sign Bellingham & Mitrovic next season for a combined £60m. In 3 years time find that we have exceeded FFP rules & get told we must raise money to make up the shortfall in the January. We have a bid in for Dougherty for £5m but we refuse it as we know we can get more in the summer.BigRedEvil said:Wasn't Birmingham issue that they didn't sell Adams in January, instead waited for the summer and got a bigger fee. Can see why the EFL lost that one
Seems like 2 wrongs DO make a right.
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