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Derby County and Sheffield Wednesday - What is happening?

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    PopIcon said:
    What's the latest on this?
    EFL probably waiting to see if they can void the season.

    If they null and void the season they can quickly give the points deduction and it means nothing, but they will then be seen as doing something 
    I imagine they are dreading the points deduction decision if the season is finished at this point, but valid

    Give Wednesday a 9 point deduction or less and they stay up ahead of us, and it looks really cynical

    On the other hand, give them a 10 point deduction and they end up in the bottom 3 with no chance of making the deficit up again, unlike if they had been given it with games to play
    All the more reason why they should just give punishments immediately rather than sitting around waiting for the problem to go away.

    Maybe we should form a breakaway Football League.
    If they give the point deductions now and then the season is declared null and void then they will remain unpunished.
    That might suit the authorities. If it takes us out of the relegation places then it suits me fine. 
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    It’s easy enough to announce the punishments as being applied to this season, or carried to next season if this one is voided.
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    I believe even before the suspension of the season that the EFL had past the cut off date for applying point deduction to this season if any are forth coming, So if they are punished it will be next season, the same goes for us as well. Which if there is a Charlton Football team playing in league 1 next year will likely cause are relegation to league 2 at the end of the 2020/2021 season.
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    msomerton said:
    I believe even before the suspension of the season that the EFL had past the cut off date for applying point deduction to this season if any are forth coming, So if they are punished it will be next season, the same goes for us as well. Which if there is a Charlton Football team playing in league 1 next year will likely cause are relegation to league 2 at the end of the 2020/2021 season.
    Unless it has changed recently, points deductions awarded before a specified date (sometime in March ?) are applied to the current season.  Deductions awarded after that date are applied to the current date if they make a material difference (eg the team become relegated) otherwise they are applied in the following season.  It prevents clubs making a choice.
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    Hex said:
    msomerton said:
    I believe even before the suspension of the season that the EFL had past the cut off date for applying point deduction to this season if any are forth coming, So if they are punished it will be next season, the same goes for us as well. Which if there is a Charlton Football team playing in league 1 next year will likely cause are relegation to league 2 at the end of the 2020/2021 season.
    Unless it has changed recently, points deductions awarded before a specified date (sometime in March ?) are applied to the current season.  Deductions awarded after that date are applied to the current date if they make a material difference (eg the team become relegated) otherwise they are applied in the following season.  It prevents clubs making a choice.
    This was the protocol brought in after Leeds decided to go into administration 5 minutes from the end of the final game of the season when their relegation to Division Three had been confirmed, effectively rendering the points penalty meaningless.
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    Surely this is a matter that has to be concluded before the end of this season? If they get a points deduction and go below us in the table then they declare the season is over, oh well. What they can't do is dither on the points deduction until next season if it directly affects who stays up and who goes down
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    sam3110 said:
    Surely this is a matter that has to be concluded before the end of this season? If they get a points deduction and go below us in the table then they declare the season is over, oh well. What they can't do is dither on the points deduction until next season if it directly affects who stays up and who goes down
    Indeed. Certainly if the EFL follow precedent & their own rules deciding when points deductions take place.

    But then we know they are a law to themselves & will do whatever causes the least agro 
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    Funnily just had a link on my phone to an "Athletic" article

    Comments that Barnsley and Luton are several clubs who'll be taking legal action if Birmingham | Derby | Sheff Wed are allowed to start next season in the Championship yet on minus points

    Goes on to say that Derby 12-pts clear of Charlton and Sheffield Wednesday less than 12-pts clear of us would see us and the latter changing places

    Barnsley havent asked for a change of the rules, they're asking that the rules be followed

    Says these sanctions in England are ludicrous; in Germany, France, Spain if you dont pay bills or are late with anything financial then you get demoted two, three divisions but not in England
    I do worry about Charlton potentially becoming a voice in calling for punishments given our current mess, although given our lack of leadership away from the footballing side this seems very unlikely. Surely they wouldn't be able to to punish us (if required) at the same time as them though?
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    Funnily just had a link on my phone to an "Athletic" article

    Comments that Barnsley and Luton are several clubs who'll be taking legal action if Birmingham | Derby | Sheff Wed are allowed to start next season in the Championship yet on minus points

    Goes on to say that Derby 12-pts clear of Charlton and Sheffield Wednesday less than 12-pts clear of us would see us and the latter changing places

    Barnsley havent asked for a change of the rules, they're asking that the rules be followed

    Says these sanctions in England are ludicrous; in Germany, France, Spain if you dont pay bills or are late with anything financial then you get demoted two, three divisions but not in England
    I do worry about Charlton potentially becoming a voice in calling for punishments given our current mess, although given our lack of leadership away from the footballing side this seems very unlikely. Surely they wouldn't be able to to punish us (if required) at the same time as them though?
    Its one way they could actually get round it by leaving those in the relegation zone accordingly (if PPG was used)

    i.e. Give Derby and Sheffield Wednesday the appropriate points deduction for them breaking FFP -They could then give us a 10-pts deduction due to the owners not providing whatever is necessary (if they can do that)

    Of course we'd drop to the bottom of the table as a result but it wouldnt matter as its the same three going down that are in the relegation zone now
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    Funnily just had a link on my phone to an "Athletic" article

    Comments that Barnsley and Luton are several clubs who'll be taking legal action if Birmingham | Derby | Sheff Wed are allowed to start next season in the Championship yet on minus points

    Goes on to say that Derby 12-pts clear of Charlton and Sheffield Wednesday less than 12-pts clear of us would see us and the latter changing places

    Barnsley havent asked for a change of the rules, they're asking that the rules be followed

    Says these sanctions in England are ludicrous; in Germany, France, Spain if you dont pay bills or are late with anything financial then you get demoted two, three divisions but not in England
    I do worry about Charlton potentially becoming a voice in calling for punishments given our current mess, although given our lack of leadership away from the footballing side this seems very unlikely. Surely they wouldn't be able to to punish us (if required) at the same time as them though?
    Its one way they could actually get round it by leaving those in the relegation zone accordingly (if PPG was used)

    i.e. Give Derby and Sheffield Wednesday the appropriate points deduction for them breaking FFP -They could then give us a 10-pts deduction due to the owners not providing whatever is necessary (if they can do that)

    Of course we'd drop to the bottom of the table as a result but it wouldnt matter as its the same three going down that are in the relegation zone now
     I might be wrong but Blackpool didn't get punished for going into receivership did they (not that I believe they should have)? So they can pick and choose what they do - you would hope they would consider how much of a role they played in screwing us over before punishing the club. Derby et al. deciding to break FFP rules is entirely different and those clubs chose to break the rules.
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    Let’s face it. The EFL are not going to take any decision that causes waves. They will do the bare minimum as always. 
    But surely the bare minimum in this case is sticking to their rules and giving out points deductions? If the teams go unpunished then it'll be like the wild West with rich owners buying and leasing back anything and everything to cover losses
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    Funnily just had a link on my phone to an "Athletic" article

    Comments that Barnsley and Luton are several clubs who'll be taking legal action if Birmingham | Derby | Sheff Wed are allowed to start next season in the Championship yet on minus points

    Goes on to say that Derby 12-pts clear of Charlton and Sheffield Wednesday less than 12-pts clear of us would see us and the latter changing places

    Barnsley havent asked for a change of the rules, they're asking that the rules be followed

    Says these sanctions in England are ludicrous; in Germany, France, Spain if you dont pay bills or are late with anything financial then you get demoted two, three divisions but not in England
    I do worry about Charlton potentially becoming a voice in calling for punishments given our current mess, although given our lack of leadership away from the footballing side this seems very unlikely. Surely they wouldn't be able to to punish us (if required) at the same time as them though?
    What current mess is there that impacts upon the EFL and the club complying with its rules ?

    there is a dispute amongst the owners but as long as the wages are paid there is no current mess that the EFL can have a gripe about.

    the SoF/SoW matter is EFLs issue, not the club’s since we are told evidence was provided. If the EFL can’t make a quick decision or decides to seek further explanation or documentation that’s their problem.
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    Apart from the odd conference call about how to resume the season, the EFL have been pretty much sat on their arses doing nothing for 2 months and they still haven't found the time to sort this out. Beyond shambolic.
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    Apart from the odd conference call about how to resume the season, the EFL have been pretty much sat on their arses doing nothing for 2 months and they still haven't found the time to sort this out. Beyond shambolic.
    Possibly and I'm not saying that the EFL are a well run, well resourced, dynamic organisation but we just don't know what is going on behind the scenes there.

    They have investigations with at least four championships clubs that we know of.

    There maybe other issues going on with other clubs or takeovers and on top of that there is Covid19 and all the issues arising from that both within their offices and staffing as well as the financial and safety impact on their member clubs.


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    Funnily just had a link on my phone to an "Athletic" article

    Comments that Barnsley and Luton are several clubs who'll be taking legal action if Birmingham | Derby | Sheff Wed are allowed to start next season in the Championship yet on minus points

    Goes on to say that Derby 12-pts clear of Charlton and Sheffield Wednesday less than 12-pts clear of us would see us and the latter changing places

    Barnsley havent asked for a change of the rules, they're asking that the rules be followed

    Says these sanctions in England are ludicrous; in Germany, France, Spain if you dont pay bills or are late with anything financial then you get demoted two, three divisions but not in England
    I do worry about Charlton potentially becoming a voice in calling for punishments given our current mess, although given our lack of leadership away from the footballing side this seems very unlikely. Surely they wouldn't be able to to punish us (if required) at the same time as them though?
    What current mess is there that impacts upon the EFL and the club complying with its rules ?

    there is a dispute amongst the owners but as long as the wages are paid there is no current mess that the EFL can have a gripe about.

    the SoF/SoW matter is EFLs issue, not the club’s since we are told evidence was provided. If the EFL can’t make a quick decision or decides to seek further explanation or documentation that’s their problem.
    I am thinking of the ongoing worry each month that wages will not be paid. That Nimer still hasn't put any funds into the club and has just claimed that he will only do this when necessary. I think it is something that is reasonable to consider. Hopefully this never comes to fruition of course. I have seen nothing to suggest we should have confidence that Nimer will do as he says. We will find out in the next week or so I imagine.
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    edited May 2020
    Apart from the odd conference call about how to resume the season, the EFL have been pretty much sat on their arses doing nothing for 2 months and they still haven't found the time to sort this out. Beyond shambolic.
    Possibly and I'm not saying that the EFL are a well run, well resourced, dynamic organisation but we just don't know what is going on behind the scenes there.

    They have investigations with at least four championships clubs that we know of.

    There maybe other issues going on with other clubs or takeovers and on top of that there is Covid19 and all the issues arising from that both within their offices and staffing as well as the financial and safety impact on their member clubs.


    I'm sure they do have some things to do but a quick google search brings up an article from a local Derby paper from October 2019 saying the EFL were investigating Derby. They were charged in January.

    Sheffield Wednesday were charged in November.

    How can this take so many months? They would've surely had to make a decision before now had the season not been suspended, so this only adds to the thoughts that they're just stringing it out in order to see what punishment they can get away with giving them in order to cause minimum damage.

    Give them 12-15 points now and the season can't resume, all hell breaks loose with legal battles.
    Season resumes and both are comfortably 20 points safe. There's your 12-15 point deduction, don't do it again.
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    The Nimer lack of cash issue is a major worry of course, but so far it hasn't had any major impact of the sort that would attract EFL penalties though?

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    The Nimer lack of cash issue is a major worry of course, but so far it hasn't had any major impact of the sort that would attract EFL penalties though?

    I don't think so but this is the EFL we are talking about!
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    Apart from the odd conference call about how to resume the season, the EFL have been pretty much sat on their arses doing nothing for 2 months and they still haven't found the time to sort this out. Beyond shambolic.
    Possibly and I'm not saying that the EFL are a well run, well resourced, dynamic organisation but we just don't know what is going on behind the scenes there.

    They have investigations with at least four championships clubs that we know of.

    There maybe other issues going on with other clubs or takeovers and on top of that there is Covid19 and all the issues arising from that both within their offices and staffing as well as the financial and safety impact on their member clubs.


    I'm sure they do have some things to do but a quick google search brings up an article from a local Derby paper from October 2019 saying the EFL were investigating Derby. They were charged in January.

    Sheffield Wednesday were charged in November.

    How can this take so many months? They would've surely had to make a decision before now had the season not been suspended, so this only adds to the thoughts that they're just stringing it out in order to see what punishment they can get away with giving them in order to cause minimum damage.

    Give them 12-15 points now and the season can't resume, all hell breaks loose with legal battles.
    Season resumes and both are comfortably 20 points safe. There's your 12-15 point deduction, don't do it again.
    Reminds me of the Tevez affair. Sorted out all too late & the Premier League then decided they couldn't relegate them retrospectively as it wouldnt be fair. 
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    Apart from the odd conference call about how to resume the season, the EFL have been pretty much sat on their arses doing nothing for 2 months and they still haven't found the time to sort this out. Beyond shambolic.
    Possibly and I'm not saying that the EFL are a well run, well resourced, dynamic organisation but we just don't know what is going on behind the scenes there.

    They have investigations with at least four championships clubs that we know of.

    There maybe other issues going on with other clubs or takeovers and on top of that there is Covid19 and all the issues arising from that both within their offices and staffing as well as the financial and safety impact on their member clubs.


    I'm sure they do have some things to do but a quick google search brings up an article from a local Derby paper from October 2019 saying the EFL were investigating Derby. They were charged in January.

    Sheffield Wednesday were charged in November.

    How can this take so many months? They would've surely had to make a decision before now had the season not been suspended, so this only adds to the thoughts that they're just stringing it out in order to see what punishment they can get away with giving them in order to cause minimum damage.

    Give them 12-15 points now and the season can't resume, all hell breaks loose with legal battles.
    Season resumes and both are comfortably 20 points safe. There's your 12-15 point deduction, don't do it again.
    Reminds me of the Tevez affair. Sorted out all too late & the Premier League then decided they couldn't relegate them retrospectively as it wouldnt be fair. 
    That would be convenient for the EFL. 
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    The EFL dishing out  a 9 or even 12 point deduction - yet it doesn't punish that club in real teams ..... well, what's the point?

    It's no punishment at all  ....... which is what the Barnsley chairman has beeen saying.
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    If they’re deducted this season, knowing out luck they’ll probably be done on a pro-rata basis with the number of games played.
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