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How do we reverse the rise of racism in football?
Chizz
Posts: 28,331
What should be done, by whom, where and when?
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Comments
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Kill the racists.
Name, shame and permanently ban.0 -
“in football”?
i think that’s the tip of the iceberg, unfortunately.17 -
Difficult one... I honestly dont think Stadium bans will fully solve the issue, merely sweep it under the carpet
Fair enough it might be easy to stop them entering grounds at League level where there is CCTV
But how do your proper Non-League teams enforce it when there isnt that ability to stop them from gaining entry with ease?0 -
Heard a guy on Talksport suggest the use of a register for convicted racists.
That way individuals would have to take ownership of their crime and suffer the consequences. It would affect their future chances of employment and impact on friendships, partnerships and of course their ability to attend football matches and other sporting events. Might be enough to make them think. I thought it was quite a good idea.
I believe he was trying to obtain the legal clout to launch the idea, not sure what has transpired since.
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Does that mean a register for people convicted of racially-aggravated crimes? If so, that makes a lot of sense.Raith_C_Chattonell said:Heard a guy on Talksport suggest the use of a register for convicted racists.
That way individuals would have to take ownership of their crime and suffer the consequences. It would affect their future chances of employment and impact on friendships, partnerships and of course their ability to attend football matches and other sporting events. Might be enough to make them think. I thought it was quite a good idea.
I believe he was trying to obtain the legal clout to launch the idea, not sure what has transpired since.0 -
The EFL and FA could start by disciplining PLAYERS who make racist remarks.
A few examples of stopping the game, clearing the stadium (with police help if necessary) and completing the game behind closed doors might go some way towards showing serious intent.
The recent increase in racist incidents - both at football matches and in general - does appear to coincide with a general rise in xenophobia which has become evident following both the EU referendum campaign and well-publicised racist tropes voiced by prominent politicians such as the PM when he was foreign minister. Unfortunately, the "bubble" effect of social media probably gives racists the impression their disgusting views are mainstream. It appears to have given license to racists who had previously held their tongues in public to spout their vile message. It behoves all in public life to set a good example.
If personal security is not an issue, then it is down to every one of us to challenge racists when we encounter them. However, that is all too often a very big IF.15 -
If you haven’t heard Gary Neville’s spiel from yesterday regarding this, find it and watch it. He hits the nail on the head. This goes far deeper than football.13
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Shame about the response from the presenter.Callumcafc said:If you haven’t heard Gary Neville’s spiel from yesterday regarding this, find it and watch it. He hits the nail on the head. This goes far deeper than football.
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In football, a points deduction (not a fine they don't work as a deterrent for anything) or something that impacts the success of the team would put a stop to it as people would be less reluctant to fuck up their teams' chances of European qualification or avoiding relegation. Anything caught mid game maybe a penalty goal can be awarded against the team with the racist fan? Obviously problems could incur with "spies" from opposing teams attending the game in the other fans end and then proceeding to be racist, but that would take a special kind of prick
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When you’ve got certain world leaders who are blatantly racist it gives the green flag to the biggots and racist in society. ( those who argue against that are normally in denial )It’s a problem in football but it’s not caused by football .18
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Probably had SKY in his ear piece telling him to distance themselves from Gary Neville's comments seeing he started getting political.Talal said:
Shame about the response from the presenter.Callumcafc said:If you haven’t heard Gary Neville’s spiel from yesterday regarding this, find it and watch it. He hits the nail on the head. This goes far deeper than football.1 -
I have mixed views on this, as while racist abuse is quite rightly condemned, it does seem a bit odd that if the Spurs fan had instead shouted "Rudiger you f**king cheating c*nt, I hope you die you c*nt" etc it wouldn't have made the news at all, whereas on the street that would be considered far more threatening than monkey noises.
Football accepts all sorts of abuse from the stands that in ANY other form of life wouldn't be accepted, it's accepted as normal due to the "passions of the game"8 -
Not a football issue, it's a societal issue.2
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as it isn't down to football but society/the prime minister/world leaders, should football just use that as excuse to do nothing?
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Exactly. Racism is a societal problem. Look at the rise of right wing politics on a global scale. People are stupid enough to believe the 'other' is to blame and hatred is stirred. That spills into football. Football isn't racist. Society is racist and some racists also watch and work in football.Off_it said:“in football”?
i think that’s the tip of the iceberg, unfortunately.4 -
It's not a football issue? Are you suggesting that there's roughly the same amount of racist abuse in all sports? Or would you agree that football suffers far more than every other sport played in the country?jacob_CAFC said:Not a football issue, it's a societal issue.0 -
I agree with you. But it begs the question why does racism proliferate in football while being almost non-existent in pretty much every other sport?The Red Robin said:
Exactly. Racism is a societal problem. Look at the rise of right wing politics on a global scale. People are stupid enough to believe the 'other' is to blame and hatred is stirred. That spills into football. Football isn't racist. Society is racist and some racists also watch and work in football.Off_it said:“in football”?
i think that’s the tip of the iceberg, unfortunately.0 -
The owner of Israeli club Beitar Jerusalem was being feted for his approach just 3 days ago. The story is still on the BBC website.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50842424
Extract;
"It seems the vast majority of fans are right behind Hogeg's efforts to change the culture of the club, but there are those who are not. That is where the threat of court action comes in.Individuals whose behaviour was viewed as discriminatory received letters accusing them of damaging the reputation of the club. Faced with potentially enormous pay-outs and the high legal costs needed to defend themselves, they backed down.
"I'm not trying to ruin anyone's life, I'm not trying to be their father and their mother, I'm not trying to educate them - it's not my job," Hogeg says. "But when you bring it to the stadium and you act in that way it reflects badly on all of the crowd and on our nation, so I can't take this."
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Yeah I'd definitely agree with that, not sure why though tbh. Could be because of the whole culture around football vs other sports. But it's not a coincidence that the country goes further right and allows racists to get into power and racism rises again in footballChizz said:
It's not a football issue? Are you suggesting that there's roughly the same amount of racist abuse in all sports? Or would you agree that football suffers far more than every other sport played in the country?jacob_CAFC said:Not a football issue, it's a societal issue.3 -
Sad indictment of society in general. No idea how you stamp it out. Banning and fining the racists doesn’t stop the pathetic creatures from being racist.1
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also bear in mind that as I type this, there is no 'proof' that Rudiger was racially abused .. he claims to have heard 'monkey chanting' by some Spurs fans, no-one else heard this .. CC TV footage is being closely scrutinised in an attempt to prove or disprove what Rudiger heard or thought he heard.killerandflash said:I have mixed views on this, as while racist abuse is quite rightly condemned, it does seem a bit odd that if the Spurs fan had instead shouted "Rudiger you f**king cheating c*nt, I hope you die you c*nt" etc it wouldn't have made the news at all, whereas on the street that would be considered far more threatening than monkey noises.
Football accepts all sorts of abuse from the stands that in ANY other form of life wouldn't be accepted, it's accepted as normal due to the "passions of the game"
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Are you inclined to believe him or to disbelieve him?Lincsaddick said:
also bear in mind that as I type this, there is no 'proof' that Rudiger was racially abused .. he claims to have heard 'monkey chanting' by some Spurs fans, no-one else heard this .. CC TV footage is being closely scrutinised in an attempt to prove or disprove what Rudiger heard or thought he heard.killerandflash said:I have mixed views on this, as while racist abuse is quite rightly condemned, it does seem a bit odd that if the Spurs fan had instead shouted "Rudiger you f**king cheating c*nt, I hope you die you c*nt" etc it wouldn't have made the news at all, whereas on the street that would be considered far more threatening than monkey noises.
Football accepts all sorts of abuse from the stands that in ANY other form of life wouldn't be accepted, it's accepted as normal due to the "passions of the game"
Because, if it's the latter, it would be interesting to ask what you think his motive was.1 -
There’s a racist in Number 10, there is still a racist as leader of HM Opposition, we’re a country in the grip of populism and nationalism, football is the outlet, but could be part of the cure
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It would help if the authorities and clubs took racism seriously.
It's nearly 2 weeks since I emailed the club for an update on the Leeds keeper case, no reply as yet.
3 months and it's still ongoing it's a joke.
Why are players treated differently from fans.
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasnt the ref made aware of the alleged racism at the time.
If the ref was made aware why was the Leeds keeper not escorted from the pitch.
I ask this because if there was an alleged incident during the game involving a fan would they still be able to continue watching the game
As I've said before kick racism out when it suits us.
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firstly, what proof is there that there is a 'rise of racism in football' ? .. as to whether or not I believe Rudiger, I have no feelings either way .. I repeat that there is no proof that he was abused and before everyone gets over excited let's ascertain that he was actually racially abused. This of course will not be easy.Chizz said:
Are you inclined to believe him or to disbelieve him?Lincsaddick said:
also bear in mind that as I type this, there is no 'proof' that Rudiger was racially abused .. he claims to have heard 'monkey chanting' by some Spurs fans, no-one else heard this .. CC TV footage is being closely scrutinised in an attempt to prove or disprove what Rudiger heard or thought he heard.killerandflash said:I have mixed views on this, as while racist abuse is quite rightly condemned, it does seem a bit odd that if the Spurs fan had instead shouted "Rudiger you f**king cheating c*nt, I hope you die you c*nt" etc it wouldn't have made the news at all, whereas on the street that would be considered far more threatening than monkey noises.
Football accepts all sorts of abuse from the stands that in ANY other form of life wouldn't be accepted, it's accepted as normal due to the "passions of the game"
Because, if it's the latter, it would be interesting to ask what you think his motive was.
I go regularly to Charlton games and to other clubs and I have NEVER heard any racial abuse aimed at players or other spectators in the last 20/30 years Before then, it was not common but now and again there would be some bad comments of a racial nature.
I think you are guilty of exaggeration and sensationalism in your assertions.
There was a case a while back when Bong of Brighton accused another player, Jay Rodriguez, of racially abusing him. Rodriguez vehemently denied the accusation .. who would you believe in that situation. It was never 'proved' either way who was in the right (or wrong).
The question of 'why' anyone would accuse another of racism is complex and beyond my comprehension. In these volatile times, it is always unwise to ignore accusations of racism. Equally, it is unwise to just assume that a racist remark was made without proof.
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i was at Scotland v Brazil a few years ago and, despite it being a completely meaningless friendly, Neymar was diving around, feigning injury and waiving imaginary cards to the ref. after about 50 minutes of this he was booed every time he touched the ball. after the game he claimed that Scotland fans were all racistLincsaddick said:
firstly, what proof is there that there is a 'rise of racism in football' ? .. as to whether or not I believe Rudiger, I have no feelings either way .. I repeat that there is no proof that he was abused and before everyone gets over excited let's ascertain that he was actually racially abused. This of course will not be easy.Chizz said:
Are you inclined to believe him or to disbelieve him?Lincsaddick said:
also bear in mind that as I type this, there is no 'proof' that Rudiger was racially abused .. he claims to have heard 'monkey chanting' by some Spurs fans, no-one else heard this .. CC TV footage is being closely scrutinised in an attempt to prove or disprove what Rudiger heard or thought he heard.killerandflash said:I have mixed views on this, as while racist abuse is quite rightly condemned, it does seem a bit odd that if the Spurs fan had instead shouted "Rudiger you f**king cheating c*nt, I hope you die you c*nt" etc it wouldn't have made the news at all, whereas on the street that would be considered far more threatening than monkey noises.
Football accepts all sorts of abuse from the stands that in ANY other form of life wouldn't be accepted, it's accepted as normal due to the "passions of the game"
Because, if it's the latter, it would be interesting to ask what you think his motive was.
I go regularly to Charlton games and to other clubs and I have NEVER heard any racial abuse aimed at players or other spectators in the last 20/30 years Before then, it was not common but now and again there would be some bad comments of a racial nature.
I think you are guilty of exaggeration and sensationalism in your assertions.
There was a case a while back when Bong of Brighton accused another player, Jay Rodriguez, of racially abusing him. Rodriguez vehemently denied the accusation .. who would you believe in that situation. It was never 'proved' either way who was in the right (or wrong).
The question of 'why' anyone would accuse another of racism is complex and beyond my comprehension. In these volatile times, it is always unwise to ignore accusations of racism. Equally, it is unwise to just assume that a racist remark was made without proof.2 -
1. It attracts a different kind of spectator due to the history, tribalism, importance, passion etc etc. It’s simply unique. Hence why you get language you’d never hear at other sports, atmospheres like you don’t get at other sports and violence that you rarely get at other sports.Chizz said:
I agree with you. But it begs the question why does racism proliferate in football while being almost non-existent in pretty much every other sport?The Red Robin said:
Exactly. Racism is a societal problem. Look at the rise of right wing politics on a global scale. People are stupid enough to believe the 'other' is to blame and hatred is stirred. That spills into football. Football isn't racist. Society is racist and some racists also watch and work in football.Off_it said:“in football”?
i think that’s the tip of the iceberg, unfortunately.
2. How many people participate in and watch football every weekend compared to any other sport?
So considering racist actions/remarks are so relatively small, it’s no surprise it’s football where it happens, assuming it has on this occasion of course.
I’m sure many remember the numpty of a reporter who reported that Millwall fans were chanting seig heil against Brighton, when in fact it was their support singing Seagulls!2 -
Not all racist, but let's be honest many of them hate the English :-)cafcdave123 said:
i was at Scotland v Brazil a few years ago and, despite it being a completely meaningless friendly, Neymar was diving around, feigning injury and waiving imaginary cards to the ref. after about 50 minutes of this he was booed every time he touched the ball. after the game he claimed that Scotland fans were all racistLincsaddick said:
firstly, what proof is there that there is a 'rise of racism in football' ? .. as to whether or not I believe Rudiger, I have no feelings either way .. I repeat that there is no proof that he was abused and before everyone gets over excited let's ascertain that he was actually racially abused. This of course will not be easy.Chizz said:
Are you inclined to believe him or to disbelieve him?Lincsaddick said:
also bear in mind that as I type this, there is no 'proof' that Rudiger was racially abused .. he claims to have heard 'monkey chanting' by some Spurs fans, no-one else heard this .. CC TV footage is being closely scrutinised in an attempt to prove or disprove what Rudiger heard or thought he heard.killerandflash said:I have mixed views on this, as while racist abuse is quite rightly condemned, it does seem a bit odd that if the Spurs fan had instead shouted "Rudiger you f**king cheating c*nt, I hope you die you c*nt" etc it wouldn't have made the news at all, whereas on the street that would be considered far more threatening than monkey noises.
Football accepts all sorts of abuse from the stands that in ANY other form of life wouldn't be accepted, it's accepted as normal due to the "passions of the game"
Because, if it's the latter, it would be interesting to ask what you think his motive was.
I go regularly to Charlton games and to other clubs and I have NEVER heard any racial abuse aimed at players or other spectators in the last 20/30 years Before then, it was not common but now and again there would be some bad comments of a racial nature.
I think you are guilty of exaggeration and sensationalism in your assertions.
There was a case a while back when Bong of Brighton accused another player, Jay Rodriguez, of racially abusing him. Rodriguez vehemently denied the accusation .. who would you believe in that situation. It was never 'proved' either way who was in the right (or wrong).
The question of 'why' anyone would accuse another of racism is complex and beyond my comprehension. In these volatile times, it is always unwise to ignore accusations of racism. Equally, it is unwise to just assume that a racist remark was made without proof.3 -
I don't really believe the people making racist comments are actually racists.
They just want to be as offensive as they can to whomever they want to be offensive to. And racist comments seem to do the trick.
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I don’t think there is a way to reverse it, like has been pointed out before, it’s a societal problem not a football problem. As for minimising incidents, empower players to leave the pitch on every occasion it happens. Call games off if need be. Nothing but the strictest measures will make any difference.0
This discussion has been closed.
