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Emiliano Sala plane crash
Comments
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Fair enough manslaughter charges are bought if somebody has been negligent assuming there is a legal case.0
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It is very plausible. This was a multi million pound deal, the pilot probably felt obliged/pressure to get him to Cardiff. It was pretty stormy weather wise and the plane didn't sound like it was in tip top condition from Sala's own recorded words.i_b_b_o_r_g said:Reckon - Agent paid Henderson to pilot the plane but, as it was meant to be 09:00 departure, he passed it on to Ibbotson on the understanding that is was a cost sharing trip (between pilot and passenger, so legal), Sala delayed departure to 19:00, over hour after sunset, Ibbotson didn't want to let anyone down so took off, ditching into the Channel later due to colour blindness / not enough experience flying at night etc.
Just my theory
As it is known it was heading for the Channel Islands, it suggests there was a technical issue and an attempt to reach the nearest land!0 -
Have Cardiff paid the transfer fee yet?1
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I wouldn't be too quick to draw that conclusion. If you read the pilots' forum, you learn that this crash uncovered a whole grey area of unregulated flights such as this which put passengers in danger. Most of them take the view that McKay, who had booked such flights before, knew full well that such flights are cheaper because they evaade regulatory conditions which can push up costs (in terms of spec. of aircraft, number of qualified pilots and limit times when they can fly in order to comply). I would be pretty sure that the guy they arrested will have helped them with their enquiries in this respect...MuttleyCAFC said:Makes sense, he would have or should have known Ibbotson's qualifications. Also, I can't see how the agent that booked it can be charged with manslaughter seeing as they will not be aircraft experts and they hired somebody who does these things as a business.0 -
No.Chris_from_Sidcup said:Have Cardiff paid the transfer fee yet?0 -
Nice people these agents.......
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Typed a long post... Basically deleted the whole lot as it said something like:
You agreed to purchase the player and didn't pay for him. That is on you to fulfil your part of the contract as Nantes did their bit.
but in many, many more words.
I personally believe the clubs should split the difference and leave it there.0 -
Carfiff should pay what they owe and stop being scum bags, if they didn't have insurance thats on them5
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Wonder whom Mackay threatened on the streets of London? Dalman maybe?0
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Willie McKay: Former agent due in court charged with property fraud
A former football agent involved in Emiliano Sala's move to Cardiff City from French side Nantes has been charged with property fraud.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48764955
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Ralph McTellWeegie Addick said:Wonder whom Mackay threatened on the streets of London? Dalman maybe?14 -
Not looking to defend the agent, but didn't McKay book a suitably qualified pilot to do it who passed it on to Ibbotson? Or is that a smokescreen?PragueAddick said:
I wouldn't be too quick to draw that conclusion. If you read the pilots' forum, you learn that this crash uncovered a whole grey area of unregulated flights such as this which put passengers in danger. Most of them take the view that McKay, who had booked such flights before, knew full well that such flights are cheaper because they evaade regulatory conditions which can push up costs (in terms of spec. of aircraft, number of qualified pilots and limit times when they can fly in order to comply). I would be pretty sure that the guy they arrested will have helped them with their enquiries in this respect...MuttleyCAFC said:Makes sense, he would have or should have known Ibbotson's qualifications. Also, I can't see how the agent that booked it can be charged with manslaughter seeing as they will not be aircraft experts and they hired somebody who does these things as a business.0 -
From 30/03i_b_b_o_r_g said:Reckon - Agent paid Henderson to pilot the plane but, as it was meant to be 09:00 departure, he passed it on to Ibbotson on the understanding that is was a cost sharing trip (between pilot and passenger, so legal), Sala delayed departure to 19:00, over hour after sunset, Ibbotson didn't want to let anyone down so took off, ditching into the Channel later due to colour blindness / not enough experience flying at night etc.
Just my theory0 -
It is, apparently, far from that simple (I say apparently, because all I know is from the professional pilots forum, I know sod all about flying). As I have understood from them there are other problems:MuttleyCAFC said:
Not looking to defend the agent, but didn't McKay book a suitably qualified pilot to do it who passed it on to Ibbotson? Or is that a smokescreen?PragueAddick said:
I wouldn't be too quick to draw that conclusion. If you read the pilots' forum, you learn that this crash uncovered a whole grey area of unregulated flights such as this which put passengers in danger. Most of them take the view that McKay, who had booked such flights before, knew full well that such flights are cheaper because they evaade regulatory conditions which can push up costs (in terms of spec. of aircraft, number of qualified pilots and limit times when they can fly in order to comply). I would be pretty sure that the guy they arrested will have helped them with their enquiries in this respect...MuttleyCAFC said:Makes sense, he would have or should have known Ibbotson's qualifications. Also, I can't see how the agent that booked it can be charged with manslaughter seeing as they will not be aircraft experts and they hired somebody who does these things as a business.
1. If it's a commercial flight, there should have been a second qualified pilot on board, so this plane should not have been used at all, it was only a two seater.
2. A whole grey area has been uncovered of how people avoid regulations by pretending such flights are not commercial, when patently they are, and the pilots forum is furious about it.
So even if Henderson had flown it, it was a grey flight, avoiding regulations designed to protect innocent passengers like Sala. And I trust that McKay will be questioned as to whether he satisfied himself that the flight arrangements were compliant. As an agent earning more than most of us will earn in ten years on this deal, he had a duty of care. I doubt he has ever even heard the phrase before.0 -
I suppose they are furious as it does them out of money/business. In terms of the compliance, a big issue would probably be whether the company McKay dealt with do commercial private flights. I suppose if they don't, I agree there has to be some responsibility to ensure you are using a kosher company. Ultimately, it has to be the responsibility of the owner of the company to be compliant you would have thought.PragueAddick said:
It is, apparently, far from that simple (I say apparently, because all I know is from the professional pilots forum, I know sod all about flying). As I have understood from them there are other problems:MuttleyCAFC said:
Not looking to defend the agent, but didn't McKay book a suitably qualified pilot to do it who passed it on to Ibbotson? Or is that a smokescreen?PragueAddick said:
I wouldn't be too quick to draw that conclusion. If you read the pilots' forum, you learn that this crash uncovered a whole grey area of unregulated flights such as this which put passengers in danger. Most of them take the view that McKay, who had booked such flights before, knew full well that such flights are cheaper because they evaade regulatory conditions which can push up costs (in terms of spec. of aircraft, number of qualified pilots and limit times when they can fly in order to comply). I would be pretty sure that the guy they arrested will have helped them with their enquiries in this respect...MuttleyCAFC said:Makes sense, he would have or should have known Ibbotson's qualifications. Also, I can't see how the agent that booked it can be charged with manslaughter seeing as they will not be aircraft experts and they hired somebody who does these things as a business.
1. If it's a commercial flight, there should have been a second qualified pilot on board, so this plane should not have been used at all, it was only a two seater.
2. A whole grey area has been uncovered of how people avoid regulations by pretending such flights are not commercial, when patently they are, and the pilots forum is furious about it.
So even if Henderson had flown it, it was a grey flight, avoiding regulations designed to protect innocent passengers like Sala. And I trust that McKay will be questioned as to whether he satisfied himself that the flight arrangements were compliant. As an agent earning more than most of us will earn in ten years on this deal, he had a duty of care. I doubt he has ever even heard the phrase before.0 -
Hi Mutts, you really should actually spend some time on that forum. Then you would realize how unfair and trite your first sentence there is. So much of the forum is dedicated to safety related issues, and all too often they are calling out the companies and indeed the authorities who fail in their duty to keep people safe. Take the 737 Max affair. Or the increasing pressure on working hours. Most of them on there seem to be commercial pilots on bigger planes, but all of them started flying small planes. Hardly any seem to be involved in commercial flights with small planes. Their withering contempt for flyer people who break the rules is awe- inspiring and reassuring.
As for the rest of your post, the issue of the grey market in such flights is widely discussed now in the better media articles on the crash, so I won't detain you further, better to read up yourself.0 -
I will. The 737 max affair was truely shocking as the issue was widely known before the last crash. That accident shouldn't have happened. When jet engines were a little less reliable, planes with two or fewer of them were not allowed to cross the Atlantic. That is not an issue now, but surely a single engined piston plane shouldn't be able to cross a significant expanse of sea with passengers at least. In this day and age you can't be too careful.0
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https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/617514-cardiff-city-footballer-feared-missing-after-aircraft-disappeared-near-channel-island.html
Here you go, Mutts. Although most of the interesting stuff is in the Rumours and News thread. I go there every time there is some air incident in the news, and find it strangely reassuring. For example there may be some media coverage of an airliner encountering heavy turbulence and they hardly bother discussing it. It's all in a day's work for them. Indeed their contempt for the media and the way it sensationalises air incidents is as majestic as their contempt for the profit before safety managers. I am in awe of this forum and would never ever open my gob there, other than maybe to ask a polite question on the "passengers" thread. Expect also a whole load of tech terms which will go way over your head. There are clearly though quite a few who would like to eject Willie McKay from their plane at cruising altitude!
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I enjoy flying. It must be one of man's greatest achievements and you should never stop being in awe of it. I went through a spell when I was a bit nervous and solved it by understanding more about the reliability of jet engines and how safe it is. I was also in an air crash when I was 6 months old - I don't remember it of course - but I am unlikely to be in another one statistically.1
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Blimey, Mutts...what happened?0
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He pushed the throttle back and it went into a stall.0
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Well it was in the mid sixties. There was a major storm where the airport was - too bad for it to land and the plane didn't have enough fuel to go to another. Wouldn't happen today, but pilot had to crash land in a field ultimately. There were serious injuries but no fatalities and plane was a right off - although I was only six months old and the only person on the flight not sh*tting myself apparently. Although being six months old, I may have been, but not out of fear!2
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Investigators now saying that Sala and the Pilot were 'exposed to harmful levels of carbon monoxide'.
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They can't know that about the pilot as they don't know where he is?0
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Yes, the report on the BBC said that there is no separation between the cockpit and the seatsthenewbie said:
But if it happened to Sala then surely it MUST have also happened to the pilot? In a plane of this size it seems unlikely that one would but not the other.Pringle said:They can't know that about the pilot as they don't know where he is?0 -
Unless of course, the pilot had already left the cockpit...……...0
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This is what I can't understand. Sala was stuck in his seat and yet the pilot wasn't and has never been found? Is it possible he bailed out before crashing and survived and done a runner? Would he have been wearing a parachute?1
