ICC Cricket World Cup 2019

Chizz said:

SoundAsa£ said:

Chizz said:

Morgan crocked now

Yup.....gone off limping very slowly and gingerly!!!

#racist

Chizz said:

Addick Addict said:

Chizz said:

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Chizz said:

In my opinion, Sarah Taylor is the best wicket keeper in the world.  You're welcome either to agree with me or, conversely, to remain wrong. 

She is an extremely good keeper. However, it is very difficult to claim that she is the best keeper in the world when she doesn't have to stand back to bowlers who bowl at 95mph or keep to a spinner who has all the variations in the book.

So case unproven I'm afraid.

No, I found it very easy to claim she is the best keeper in the world.  See?  I have just done it again! 

You make a good point to suggest that she hasn't been tested against the best men's teams' bowlers.  I don't think that fast bowling would present an insurmountable challenge, it's just a case of standing further back.  And I also think she's a good enough athlete to be able to cope standing up to the very best "mystery spinners".  That's why I think she's the best in the world.  And that's why the best-ever wicket keeper batsman, Adam Gilchrist named her as such.  And he's possibly an even better judge than me! 

No it isn't - the further you stand back the lower you have to take good length balls and higher you have to take shorter balls so, by definition, balls that a male keeper would be taking chest high would end up sailing over her head. Equally, the further you stand back the greater the deviation is off the bat. And this doesn't even take into account the fact that she is shorter and will have a lesser reach than her male counter parts.

I'm certainly not saying that she hasn't got one of the best pair of hands in the game. But until she is tested keeping to the best male bowlers in the world she cannot be called the "best keeper" in the world.

Case still unproven. And I don't care if Adam Gilchrist says so. He wasn't one of the great keepers either.

Edit - I have also asked my son who has just got back from taking one of his GCSEs and who knows more about keeping than I will ever do as he has kept for Kent age groups sides for the last six years, has had numerous sessions with Geraint Jones amongst others and has yet to let a bye through in the Kent Cricket League this season from almost a thousand balls. And he, of course, totally agrees with me. But then he would wouldn't he!

How do you work that out? 

It was in response to your comment that "it's just a case of standing further back". It's not simply because there is an optimum spot to take the ball. So Taylor moving back puts her in the wrong place.

Taylor would not be able to take the ball that Buttler has just taken one handed above his head off Wood even standing in the same place. She is 4 inches shorter and her reach wouldn't be as long. So that would be five wides instead of one.

Taylor has better hands than Buttler and standing up is at least his equal. That doesn't make her a better overall keeper. And Foakes, for a start, is better than all of them.

LOL!  So Jos Buttler is a better keeper than Alan Knott, by three inches? No wonder Jonny Bairstow is such a terrible keeper.  

Although, of course, it does beg the question as to why on earth they're giving the gloves to Buttler, when Plunkett's in the team...

Foakes at 6' 1'' is good enough if height is the sole criteria. Standing back to 75 mph bowlers and to spinners that hardly turn the ball as opposed to 95mph and a Rashid with many variations clearly makes Taylor the best keeper in the world.

You've proved your point.

1. Height ISN'T a criterion.  

2. Yes, she is. But not for those reasons.  

For what reasons, may I ask, is Taylor a better keeper than Foakes?

I am very happy to answer that for you and thank you for putting it in such a pleasant and polite way.  It's because she's better. 

And your supporting evidence of this is?

1. She is the best wicket keeper in the world at the moment - male or female. She's done some work over the years in the Big Bash in Australia. There are a lot of fine wicket keepers around just so skilful with soft hands effecting these leg-side stumpings. She spends so much time up to the stumps with a little less pace on the ball in the women's game and is so skilful.

2. Cricket is an entertainment - I would pay to watch Sarah Taylor keep wicket all day long.  That's not true of any other wicket keeper, past or present.  

3.  She's a magnificent example of triumph over almost-insurmountable and debilitating illness.  It's a miracle she's still playing for England, let alone demonstrating she's at the summit of achievement in her art.  

For clarity, "1" is Adam Gilchrist's view; "2" is mine. And "3" is a plain fact. 

What would you prefer to see, Sarah Taylor pulling off breath-taking, one-handed, leg-side stumpings, or Ben Foakes (what is he, England's fourth-choice keeper?) standing back and catching fast, straight deliveries, ball after ball?  

Addick Addict said:

Chizz said:

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Chizz said:

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Chizz said:

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Chizz said:

In my opinion, Sarah Taylor is the best wicket keeper in the world.  You're welcome either to agree with me or, conversely, to remain wrong. 

She is an extremely good keeper. However, it is very difficult to claim that she is the best keeper in the world when she doesn't have to stand back to bowlers who bowl at 95mph or keep to a spinner who has all the variations in the book.

So case unproven I'm afraid.

No, I found it very easy to claim she is the best keeper in the world.  See?  I have just done it again! 

You make a good point to suggest that she hasn't been tested against the best men's teams' bowlers.  I don't think that fast bowling would present an insurmountable challenge, it's just a case of standing further back.  And I also think she's a good enough athlete to be able to cope standing up to the very best "mystery spinners".  That's why I think she's the best in the world.  And that's why the best-ever wicket keeper batsman, Adam Gilchrist named her as such.  And he's possibly an even better judge than me! 

No it isn't - the further you stand back the lower you have to take good length balls and higher you have to take shorter balls so, by definition, balls that a male keeper would be taking chest high would end up sailing over her head. Equally, the further you stand back the greater the deviation is off the bat. And this doesn't even take into account the fact that she is shorter and will have a lesser reach than her male counter parts.

I'm certainly not saying that she hasn't got one of the best pair of hands in the game. But until she is tested keeping to the best male bowlers in the world she cannot be called the "best keeper" in the world.

Case still unproven. And I don't care if Adam Gilchrist says so. He wasn't one of the great keepers either.

Edit - I have also asked my son who has just got back from taking one of his GCSEs and who knows more about keeping than I will ever do as he has kept for Kent age groups sides for the last six years, has had numerous sessions with Geraint Jones amongst others and has yet to let a bye through in the Kent Cricket League this season from almost a thousand balls. And he, of course, totally agrees with me. But then he would wouldn't he!

How do you work that out? 

It was in response to your comment that "it's just a case of standing further back". It's not simply because there is an optimum spot to take the ball. So Taylor moving back puts her in the wrong place.

Taylor would not be able to take the ball that Buttler has just taken one handed above his head off Wood even standing in the same place. She is 4 inches shorter and her reach wouldn't be as long. So that would be five wides instead of one.

Taylor has better hands than Buttler and standing up is at least his equal. That doesn't make her a better overall keeper. And Foakes, for a start, is better than all of them.

LOL!  So Jos Buttler is a better keeper than Alan Knott, by three inches? No wonder Jonny Bairstow is such a terrible keeper.  

Although, of course, it does beg the question as to why on earth they're giving the gloves to Buttler, when Plunkett's in the team...

Foakes at 6' 1'' is good enough if height is the sole criteria. Standing back to 75 mph bowlers and to spinners that hardly turn the ball as opposed to 95mph and a Rashid with many variations clearly makes Taylor the best keeper in the world.

You've proved your point.

1. Height ISN'T a criterion.  

2. Yes, she is. But not for those reasons.  

For what reasons, may I ask, is Taylor a better keeper than Foakes?

I am very happy to answer that for you and thank you for putting it in such a pleasant and polite way.  It's because she's better. 

And your supporting evidence of this is?

1. She is the best wicket keeper in the world at the moment - male or female. She's done some work over the years in the Big Bash in Australia. There are a lot of fine wicket keepers around just so skilful with soft hands effecting these leg-side stumpings. She spends so much time up to the stumps with a little less pace on the ball in the women's game and is so skilful.

2. Cricket is an entertainment - I would pay to watch Sarah Taylor keep wicket all day long.  That's not true of any other wicket keeper, past or present.  

3.  She's a magnificent example of triumph over almost-insurmountable and debilitating illness.  It's a miracle she's still playing for England, let alone demonstrating she's at the summit of achievement in her art.  

For clarity, "1" is Adam Gilchrist's view; "2" is mine. And "3" is a plain fact. 

What would you prefer to see, Sarah Taylor pulling off breath-taking, one-handed, leg-side stumpings, or Ben Foakes (what is he, England's fourth-choice keeper?) standing back and catching fast, straight deliveries, ball after ball?  

Do you really think that she is the only wicket keeper in the world that can do the highlighted bits above. And you also know very little about the make up of the England side if you believe that Foakes is fourth choice keeper. He isn't - he is first choice keeper but there isn't room in the team for Buttler, Bairstow and the first two are rated better batsmen.

If keeping were the sole criteria then how come Taylor isn't in the England men's team? She did have a few games in Sussex 2s but that is as far as her career in the male game reached. 

Callumcafc said:

@Chizz don’t be a knob

The_President said:

I think that as the Op on this thread that i have to intervene on the Taylor wicket keeper 'discussion' that 1) Taylor cannot be the best keeper in the world without having kept to the likes of Archer and 2) This is a WC thread , and Taylor is not involved.

So there.

Lets talk about the WC.

Callumcafc said:

Woakes auditioning for the number three position for the Ashes...