Emiliano Sala plane crash

ForeverAddickted said:

Search has been called off... RIP Emiliano

Chizz said:

paulie8290 said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Search has been called off... RIP Emiliano

Probably gonna get flagged alot for this may even break 100 but its winding me up.

Search for Sala and Pilot ends after 3/4 days

11 years later and over 10 million pound later they are still searching for Madeleine McCann

One was a tragic, un-survivable accident, where the well-resourced, thorough search-and-rescue mission had already been re-prioritised to a search-and-recovery mission. Unless we hear that the plane had safely landed and those on-board had simply failed to make contact, we know that this is a tragic, fatal accident; and that view can't be challenged until and unless the plane somehow, somewhere appears.

The other was crime that is, as yet, unsolved.

If you had to choose one of these incidents to continue working on, @paulie8290 which would you choose? The one where you know there was a crime committed and there is still a tiny hope that the victim may be discovered and rescued? Or the one where you know there will be no rescue and you have no evidence of a crime?

Chizz said:

LargeAddick said:

Chizz said:

paulie8290 said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Search has been called off... RIP Emiliano

Probably gonna get flagged alot for this may even break 100 but its winding me up.

Search for Sala and Pilot ends after 3/4 days

11 years later and over 10 million pound later they are still searching for Madeleine McCann

One was a tragic, un-survivable accident, where the well-resourced, thorough search-and-rescue mission had already been re-prioritised to a search-and-recovery mission. Unless we hear that the plane had safely landed and those on-board had simply failed to make contact, we know that this is a tragic, fatal accident; and that view can't be challenged until and unless the plane somehow, somewhere appears.

The other was crime that is, as yet, unsolved.

If you had to choose one of these incidents to continue working on, @paulie8290 which would you choose? The one where you know there was a crime committed and there is still a tiny hope that the victim may be discovered and rescued? Or the one where you know there will be no rescue and you have no evidence of a crime?

But the money WE, The public, have spent on the search for Maddy McCann is obscene. I wouldn’t get me started on this one because it’s one off my major bug bears. Feel for her parents BUT they left their young children unattended. Maybe they should have stayed in for the evening.

That's true. But who is in a position to decide that a crime shouldn't be investigated because some witnesses were careless? In fact, wouldn't that be a starting point for an investigation, rather than a reason not to investigate?

WE, the public, have spent more than £100 billion on policing, since Madeleine McCann went missing. The police should decide how their resources are spent. Not politicians and certainly not the ill-informed public, like me. Because if I have to help decide whether the 0.01% of police funding spent solving that case is appropriate, I am going to have to help decide on the other 99.99% too.

Maybe you're right and terrible crimes against children shouldn't be investigated if we think that the parents might have been less caring or careful than they should have been. I couldn't disagree with that more strongly.

Chizz said:

LargeAddick said:

Chizz said:

LargeAddick said:

Chizz said:

paulie8290 said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Search has been called off... RIP Emiliano

Probably gonna get flagged alot for this may even break 100 but its winding me up.

Search for Sala and Pilot ends after 3/4 days

11 years later and over 10 million pound later they are still searching for Madeleine McCann

One was a tragic, un-survivable accident, where the well-resourced, thorough search-and-rescue mission had already been re-prioritised to a search-and-recovery mission. Unless we hear that the plane had safely landed and those on-board had simply failed to make contact, we know that this is a tragic, fatal accident; and that view can't be challenged until and unless the plane somehow, somewhere appears.

The other was crime that is, as yet, unsolved.

If you had to choose one of these incidents to continue working on, @paulie8290 which would you choose? The one where you know there was a crime committed and there is still a tiny hope that the victim may be discovered and rescued? Or the one where you know there will be no rescue and you have no evidence of a crime?

But the money WE, The public, have spent on the search for Maddy McCann is obscene. I wouldn’t get me started on this one because it’s one off my major bug bears. Feel for her parents BUT they left their young children unattended. Maybe they should have stayed in for the evening.

That's true. But who is in a position to decide that a crime shouldn't be investigated because some witnesses were careless? In fact, wouldn't that be a starting point for an investigation, rather than a reason not to investigate?

WE, the public, have spent more than £100 billion on policing, since Madeleine McCann went missing. The police should decide how their resources are spent. Not politicians and certainly not the ill-informed public, like me. Because if I have to help decide whether the 0.01% of police funding spent solving that case is appropriate, I am going to have to help decide on the other 99.99% too.

Maybe you're right and terrible crimes against children shouldn't be investigated if we think that the parents might have been less caring or careful than they should have been. I couldn't disagree with that more strongly.

And I agree with you. I am not saying that. Of course it should have been investigated, quite rightly so, but there is a point where you have to say enough is enough and far too much has been thrown at this investigation in the way of resources, in my opinion. I’m leaving it there.

There's an argument that says far too little has been spent in terms of time and resource. Because whoever is to blame for this hasn't been brought to justice. That's what I think the police have got wrong, not how much they spent.

calydon_road said:

Piper Alpha P-46 .... lots of conflicting views on its safety record.

Of course planes that are widely flown for leisure purposes will likely have poor safety records compared to e.g. Airbus flown by Lufthansa. Its not apples and apples here though and that is because the airlines have to have in place safety protocols far in excess of both individuals and small charter companies. It isn't as simple as saying its a shit plane, for some PA is the best of the best in terms of performance in the class.

The A330 was widely thought "uncrashable" prior to Air France 2009 incident. The tie-in to my point on leisure aircraft is that Air France shows the latent risk of human error even when modern aviation tries to elimante this. At the time of the AF crash, the pilot was lifting the stick at the same time the co-pilot was trying to gain speed to pull out of the stall. All instruments were redundant as had frozen.

The risk of human error in lighter aircraft is magnified significantly.

Re P46 specifically, now there have been several instances of them coming apart in the air. Not structurally sound. Doubt it was the engine. The loss history usually involves the fuselage and/or wings breaking apart under high pressures (albeit within an expected range of likely manoeuvers).

Bless to the search and hopefully a landing was made somewhere but I reckon it came apart structually like it has done in the past.

Halix said:

calydon_road said:

Piper Alpha P-46 .... lots of conflicting views on its safety record.

Of course planes that are widely flown for leisure purposes will likely have poor safety records compared to e.g. Airbus flown by Lufthansa. Its not apples and apples here though and that is because the airlines have to have in place safety protocols far in excess of both individuals and small charter companies. It isn't as simple as saying its a shit plane, for some PA is the best of the best in terms of performance in the class.

The A330 was widely thought "uncrashable" prior to Air France 2009 incident. The tie-in to my point on leisure aircraft is that Air France shows the latent risk of human error even when modern aviation tries to elimante this. At the time of the AF crash, the pilot was lifting the stick at the same time the co-pilot was trying to gain speed to pull out of the stall. All instruments were redundant as had frozen.

The risk of human error in lighter aircraft is magnified significantly.

Re P46 specifically, now there have been several instances of them coming apart in the air. Not structurally sound. Doubt it was the engine. The loss history usually involves the fuselage and/or wings breaking apart under high pressures (albeit within an expected range of likely manoeuvers).

Bless to the search and hopefully a landing was made somewhere but I reckon it came apart structually like it has done in the past.

[pedant alert!!] Wasnt it a A320?

Big_Bad_World said:

The McCanns aren't witnesses who were careless, they are criminals and guilty of gross neglect of their poor daughter.

That, until any more evidence comes to light, is the ONLY crime we know to have been committed.

If those awful parents had been from a council estate then they'd have been strung up and left out to dry by now.

LargeAddick said:

Big_Bad_World said:

The McCanns aren't witnesses who were careless, they are criminals and guilty of gross neglect of their poor daughter.

That, until any more evidence comes to light, is the ONLY crime we know to have been committed.

If those awful parents had been from a council estate then they'd have been strung up and left out to dry by now.

Why can’t I ‘like’ this more than once?

PragueAddick said:

LargeAddick said:

Big_Bad_World said:

The McCanns aren't witnesses who were careless, they are criminals and guilty of gross neglect of their poor daughter.

That, until any more evidence comes to light, is the ONLY crime we know to have been committed.

If those awful parents had been from a council estate then they'd have been strung up and left out to dry by now.

Why can’t I ‘like’ this more than once?

Because it has got naff all to do with the topic of the thread, (but our resident Spanner troll can't find a political agenda for a thread about a plane crash.)

ValleyGary said:

PragueAddick said:

LargeAddick said:

Big_Bad_World said:

The McCanns aren't witnesses who were careless, they are criminals and guilty of gross neglect of their poor daughter.

That, until any more evidence comes to light, is the ONLY crime we know to have been committed.

If those awful parents had been from a council estate then they'd have been strung up and left out to dry by now.

Why can’t I ‘like’ this more than once?

Because it has got naff all to do with the topic of the thread, (but our resident Spanner troll can't find a political agenda for a thread about a plane crash.)

Plenty of Charlton fans on this thread chatting bollox about something not even remotely linked to the original subject.

RIP Sala & David