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Should We legalise Cannabis?

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  • JaShea99
    JaShea99 Posts: 5,458
    kentaddick said:

    JaShea99 said:

    Stu_of_Kunming said:

    MuttleyCAFC said:

    If people want it, can they get it? If the answer is yes, then it makes sense to legalise and have more control over it! It is irrelevant what you think of it.

    Especially as what they can get can be very dangerous, faeces in hash, glass sprayed on buds to increase the weight, dealers offering harder drugs as they're 'out of weed' the list is endless.

    Decriminalize it, tax it to high heaven and everyone wins.
    Yeah everyone wins. Including the dealers who will then sell cheaper weed to those who can’t afford/don’t want to pay the tax on the legal stuff.
    just like how i get my beer off of my beer dealer. Gotta avoid that tax.
    1) In large quantities (as with consumers of weed) many do go over to France to do that. It’s not an alien concept.

    2) Beer does not currently have ‘the fuck’ taxed out of it, as many are suggesting should happen with weed.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    JaShea99 said:

    kentaddick said:

    JaShea99 said:

    Stu_of_Kunming said:

    MuttleyCAFC said:

    If people want it, can they get it? If the answer is yes, then it makes sense to legalise and have more control over it! It is irrelevant what you think of it.

    Especially as what they can get can be very dangerous, faeces in hash, glass sprayed on buds to increase the weight, dealers offering harder drugs as they're 'out of weed' the list is endless.

    Decriminalize it, tax it to high heaven and everyone wins.
    Yeah everyone wins. Including the dealers who will then sell cheaper weed to those who can’t afford/don’t want to pay the tax on the legal stuff.
    just like how i get my beer off of my beer dealer. Gotta avoid that tax.
    1) In large quantities (as with consumers of weed) many do go over to France to do that. It’s not an alien concept.

    2) Beer does not currently have ‘the fuck’ taxed out of it, as many are suggesting should happen with weed.
    you ever been to a pub these days?
  • SuedeAdidas
    SuedeAdidas Posts: 7,741
    Does all Cannabis smell so rank - or is it just the strong stuff that pervades the air around Grove Park on a daily basis?
  • JaShea99
    JaShea99 Posts: 5,458
    edited October 2018
    kentaddick said:

    JaShea99 said:

    kentaddick said:

    JaShea99 said:

    Stu_of_Kunming said:

    MuttleyCAFC said:

    If people want it, can they get it? If the answer is yes, then it makes sense to legalise and have more control over it! It is irrelevant what you think of it.

    Especially as what they can get can be very dangerous, faeces in hash, glass sprayed on buds to increase the weight, dealers offering harder drugs as they're 'out of weed' the list is endless.

    Decriminalize it, tax it to high heaven and everyone wins.
    Yeah everyone wins. Including the dealers who will then sell cheaper weed to those who can’t afford/don’t want to pay the tax on the legal stuff.
    just like how i get my beer off of my beer dealer. Gotta avoid that tax.
    1) In large quantities (as with consumers of weed) many do go over to France to do that. It’s not an alien concept.

    2) Beer does not currently have ‘the fuck’ taxed out of it, as many are suggesting should happen with weed.
    you ever been to a pub these days?
    Yes. I don’t buy my own drinks though.
  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,245
    SuedeAdidas said:

    Does all Cannabis smell so rank - or is it just the strong stuff that pervades the air around Grove Park on a daily basis?

    Yeah it stinks, that's actually my only caveat to it being legalised. It must be consumed indoors and away from everyone else

    Make it legal, in fact make all substances legal, at least there will be quality control then and the tax on all of it can help care for us all when we lag into our 90s, brains addled by meth and opiates. That's the people whose hearts haven't exploded out of their chests from hoovering up an elephants-leg sized line of coke bought from my new recreational pharmaceutical shop i will be opening as soon as the legalisation happens
  • JaShea99
    JaShea99 Posts: 5,458
    edited October 2018
    But seriously, a pint may now be expensive but tax isn’t the sole reason for that. Plus ‘the fuck’ is pretty subjective but I wouldn’t say it’s accurate with beer. Also, whether it does or does not have a lot of tax, the point is the price has steadily gone up over years. If you suddenly legalise and tax weed it could be a massive overnight hike.
  • Super_Eddie_Youds
    Super_Eddie_Youds Posts: 1,977
    JaShea99 said:

    But seriously, a pint may now be expensive but tax isn’t the sole reason for that. Plus ‘the fuck’ is pretty subjective but I wouldn’t say it’s accurate with beer. Also, whether it does or does not have a lot of tax, the point is the price has steadily gone up over years. If you suddenly legalise and tax weed it could be a massive overnight hike.

    Similarly though, price reflects supply and demand, if you supply on an industrial scale, you're buying 'herbs' at 'herb' prices. Tax to fuck basil, say 50% and you're paying £1.50 as opposed to £1 (numbers do not reflect the true cost of basil - of which i have no idea).

    The now 'artisanal' growers can't compete with this, so they won't bother.

    Takes the strain of detection and enforcement from the police too, and moves it to trading standards.
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,035
    JaShea99 said:

    But seriously, a pint may now be expensive but tax isn’t the sole reason for that. Plus ‘the fuck’ is pretty subjective but I wouldn’t say it’s accurate with beer. Also, whether it does or does not have a lot of tax, the point is the price has steadily gone up over years. If you suddenly legalise and tax weed it could be a massive overnight hike.

    Even if we tax it at the same rate as beer (which is something like 20p x the % abv per litre, so is pretty heavily taxed by any standards - about 50p a pint of normal stuff) that would still be significantly more than we raise in tax on weed at the moment, which is £0.
  • JaShea99
    JaShea99 Posts: 5,458
    se9addick said:

    JaShea99 said:

    But seriously, a pint may now be expensive but tax isn’t the sole reason for that. Plus ‘the fuck’ is pretty subjective but I wouldn’t say it’s accurate with beer. Also, whether it does or does not have a lot of tax, the point is the price has steadily gone up over years. If you suddenly legalise and tax weed it could be a massive overnight hike.

    Even if we tax it at the same rate as beer (which is something like 20p x the % abv per litre, so is pretty heavily taxed by any standards - about 50p a pint of normal stuff) that would still be significantly more than we raise in tax on weed at the moment, which is £0.
    That’s true, but wasn’t the point at all.
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,447
    What I don't understand about using drugs is the complete lack of concern about wtf you're actually using. The trust people have in dealers is truly bizarre - you could be putting any old shit in your body.

    When it comes to mental health issues I think people underestimate the amount of damage drugs do. Drug use can trigger or exacerbate mental health issues and like alcohol it can be a destructive way to self-medicate.

    There is an awful lot of substance abuse in this country and I'm not sure how effectively it's dealt with.
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  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    What we have with Canada is another country we can draw information from about the effectiveness of legalising it. Of course it is the nature of politicians to ignore this sort of evidence.
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,117
    kentaddick said:

    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

    ShootersHillGuru said:

    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

    Cannabis can have medical benefits but also has effects on mental health. Research suggests a link between cannabis and psychosis/schizophrenia.

    If it's going to be used by people regardless of whether it's legal or not then legalising it at least allows it to be regulated and taxed.

    Personally can't stand the stuff but it does seem to work for chronic pain relief.

    Cannabis oil does not have the THC part of the cannabis plant. The part associated with addiction and mental health issues. It contains CBD the cannabidiols which are thought in certain uses to have a therapeutic effect.

    The danger for me at this point regarding the use of oil is that it appears to be viewed to be a cure all from Cancer to autism. It’s certainly not. Don’t like the idea of the oil being unregulated as self medicating for people with conditions where other drugs are being prescribed can have a reactive effect. Cannabis raises the heart rate and would not be advisable for someone with a heart condition for example. Pharmacology is way outside the realms of most people and yet a lot of people believe everything they read on the internet about how wonderful cannabis oil is. Proceed with caution is my advice.

    As for recreational cannabis. I think Canada are bang on the money. Personally I hate the stink.

    I agree that self medication is dangerous but if you are in chronic pain you will try anything. If it does work better than most of the prescribed pain relief then there does need to be research in the area.

    The mental health link to me is very worrying - I think people don't take this seriously enough.
    through my own use of the drug, some strains definitely have detrimental effects, others have really good effects on mental health. I'd say skunk (the strong stuff that you find from most dealers) is like getting smacked over the head with a plank of wood and awful for mental health. I've had some in amsterdam that make me feel great.
    The only difference between what you're buying in the UK (if its decent stuff) and Amsterdam is the curing process, any grower worth his salt is using the exact same high-end seeds used in Holland.
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,447
    MuttleyCAFC said:

    What we have with Canada is another country we can draw information from about the effectiveness of legalising it. Of course it is the nature of politicians to ignore this sort of evidence.

    We have all the evidence we need about how criminalising its use has failed....
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    Yes, but we will have even more to ignore now!
  • A-R-T-H-U-R
    A-R-T-H-U-R Posts: 7,678
    edited October 2018
    I bent over backwards to legalize pot.
    But then again I'm double jointed.
  • Solidgone
    Solidgone Posts: 10,208
    I was having a conversation about pot last night and reminiscing the hash; Lebanese gold, paki(stani) black. Lovelier smell and affect than the stuff going around. In fact my mate’s brother gives hash to my mate’s kids (30+age) for birthday and Christmas presents and they absolutely love it.
    Legalise it and control the quality.
  • SantaClaus
    SantaClaus Posts: 7,652
    edited October 2018
    Solidgone said:

    I was having a conversation about pot last night and reminiscing the hash; Lebanese gold, paki(stani) black. Lovelier smell and affect than the stuff going around. In fact my mate’s brother gives hash to my mate’s kids (30+age) for birthday and Christmas presents and they absolutely love it.
    Legalise it and control the quality.

    They're probably just being polite.
  • 1StevieG
    1StevieG Posts: 10,964
    Yes. The war on drugs is an epic failure. I doubt cannabis will ever be legalized here though.
  • bingaddick
    bingaddick Posts: 8,181
    The Prince-e-Paul said:

    Read the book Good Cop Bad War. It's a very interesting read about an undercover cop who worked in drugs squads all around UK from villages in Derbyshire to large towns like Brighton. Even as a well informed employee in NHS who sees addiction daily it opened my eyes. I used weed in 20's but none for around 20 years now. I see dealers driving to my quiet backstreet to sell their stuff. Police do nothing and so it sends a message
    they have lost the fight. All they follow up is the muggings and burglaries which are almost always as part of the crimes which are to fund drug use. Make the drugs free or very cheap and the industry is dead.

    Yes. I live in Norfolk. We are have county lines issues continuously. We now have drug dealers on the Broads. I am a parish councillor and there is almost no action taken. They are fighting the drug war in Great Yarmouth and parts of Norwich. They are struggling to put any resources into more rural areas.
  • dizzee
    dizzee Posts: 5,616
    'Tax it to the high heavens' is a silly argument as then dealers will continue to sell it but far cheaper.

    Then the crime gangs deal this cheap cannabis plus harder drugs. And people are exposed to cannabis when they wouldn't have been as it becomes like alcohol, accepted in our society. Not to mention the mental health issues.

    The world has gone mad.
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  • A-R-T-H-U-R
    A-R-T-H-U-R Posts: 7,678
    dizzee said:

    'Tax it to the high heavens' is a silly argument as then dealers will continue to sell it but far cheaper.

    Then the crime gangs deal this cheap cannabis plus harder drugs. And people are exposed to cannabis when they wouldn't have been as it becomes like alcohol, accepted in our society. Not to mention the mental health issues.

    The world has gone mad.

    It has certainly gone to pot.
  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,245
    dizzee said:

    'Tax it to the high heavens' is a silly argument as then dealers will continue to sell it but far cheaper.

    Then the crime gangs deal this cheap cannabis plus harder drugs. And people are exposed to cannabis when they wouldn't have been as it becomes like alcohol, accepted in our society. Not to mention the mental health issues.

    The world has gone mad.

    I don't think it should be taxed to high heaven but to ensure quality control and standards taxing will have to happen

    If I had kids and they were at the age where getting through substances comes to them I would rather they could give something a go that had been through quality control as opposed to someone's digestive system or out of some headbangers hydroponic lab in his cellar
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,117
    dizzee said:

    'Tax it to the high heavens' is a silly argument as then dealers will continue to sell it but far cheaper.

    Then the crime gangs deal this cheap cannabis plus harder drugs. And people are exposed to cannabis when they wouldn't have been as it becomes like alcohol, accepted in our society. Not to mention the mental health issues.

    The world has gone mad.

    That's not happened in America.
  • colthe3rd
    colthe3rd Posts: 8,486
    1StevieG said:

    Yes. The war on drugs is an epic failure. I doubt cannabis will ever be legalized here though.

    A lot will come down to how much money Canada will make from it. If there's a penny to be made the Tories will undoubtedly look to get in on the act. I feel as if there is a certain generation that the majority will be against legalisation, once they start dying off I think we'll see more talking from ministers about the potential of legalising it.
  • dizzee
    dizzee Posts: 5,616
    colthe3rd said:

    1StevieG said:

    Yes. The war on drugs is an epic failure. I doubt cannabis will ever be legalized here though.

    A lot will come down to how much money Canada will make from it. If there's a penny to be made the Tories will undoubtedly look to get in on the act. I feel as if there is a certain generation that the majority will be against legalisation, once they start dying off I think we'll see more talking from ministers about the potential of legalising it.
    Any government, not just ‘the tories’. You really think any government has your best interest at heart?
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    Make it available and dont tax it heavily. Change the laws and sentencing to come down very very hard on anyone dealing outside the legal process or selling on to under 18’s. Use all the raised revenue to fight class A drug dealing and when dealers are caught imprison them for a very long time even for quite small amounts. Large dealing operations should receive life with minimum of 20 years.
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,117
    ShootersHillGuru said:

    Make it available and dont tax it heavily. Change the laws and sentencing to come down very very hard on anyone dealing outside the legal process or selling on to under 18’s. Use all the raised revenue to fight class A drug dealing and when dealers are caught imprison them for a very long time even for quite small amounts. Large dealing operations should receive life with minimum of 20 years.

    Worked damn well when Portugal tried, money that had previously been spent on enforcement was used for treatment, the use of all drugs, bar weed, dropped if I remember correctly.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    Any tax the government receive is more than they get now!
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,447
    The issue for me about legalisation is about recognising the problem - as much as a lot of people don't approve of it cannabis is not going to disappear. Our attempts to stop it have been futile and a waste of money - the associated mental health problems will be there if it's legal or not.

    If we continue as we are the drug trade will get even worse and the quality of the drugs won't be regulated. Knowing this country we won't do anything - we'll just pretend everything is okay.
  • AddicksAddict
    AddicksAddict Posts: 15,791
    I can see the 'arguments' for and against legalisation being as accurate as those in the Brexit referendum campaigns.

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