Mesut Ozil
"I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose"
The guy is a 5 time German footballer of the year, a world cup winner, has 92 caps and has created more assists for Germany than any player since making his debut 9 years ago.
Comments
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Do feel sorry for him and Gundogan. Both been victimised for having an interest in their roots.2
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A sorry affair
It'll be interesting if Ozil's performances with Arsenal improve, seeing that club football is his only focus now1 -
He didnt have the greatest world cup(who did for Germany)
But its a shame he has felt the need to retire from international football over this at 290 -
Not criticising his reasoning at all, but I was wondering why he didn’t just quit at the time that it happened if it was that personal for him?
Otherwise it looks as though he just wanted to hang on for one final World Cup opportunity and deliberately picked a time after it to quit. Am I missing something here?0 -
Leaving aside the Turkish controversy he's a massively overated player. Ozil hasn't looked interested in playing for Arsenal (or Germany in the few games I've seen) for years. Both teams need to bin him and find themselves a more comitted playmaker.7
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Bravo.
Whether you agree with him or not, that was one hell of a way to retire.
In solidarity I would like to declare that I will never play for Germany either.6 -
Because Germany had such a bad World Cup it appears their fans and press have had to search for a scapegoat - Seems they latched on to Ozil's meeting with Erdogan as an excuse to blame him... No doubt had Germany won the World Cup, they wouldnt have caredcafctom said:Not criticising his reasoning at all, but I was wondering why he didn’t just quit at the time that it happened if it was that personal for him?
Otherwise it looks as though he just wanted to hang on for one final World Cup opportunity and deliberately picked a time after it to quit. Am I missing something here?1 -
Bayern's President hasn't held back in what he makes of Ozil.0
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Hard to disagree with anything he says here.2
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Gundogan has been very quiet, I guess he's a far lower profile player than Ozil0
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Think some of the criticism of Ozil and other ethnic minority players (particularly the Turkish Germans that met with Erdogan) after they were knocked out of the World Cup got quite nasty, hence this decision. I know the ethnicity of the Switzerland squad was a big talking point there, as I believe it was in Begium.cafctom said:Not criticising his reasoning at all, but I was wondering why he didn’t just quit at the time that it happened if it was that personal for him?
Otherwise it looks as though he just wanted to hang on for one final World Cup opportunity and deliberately picked a time after it to quit. Am I missing something here?
Seems to be something that’s happening more and more across Europe whereas in England there is no discussion at all about the ethnicity of the England team, it’s not even a talking point, which shows what a progressive and tolerant society we have compared to other places.5 -
What is the situation with these 2......did they qualify by birth (or parents / grandparents) - or via residency for x amount of years?0
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Turkey..?SpicedAddick said:Bravo.
Whether you agree with him or not, that was one hell of a way to retire.
In solidarity I would like to declare that I will never play for Germany either.2 -
It's not an easy topic over here in Germany. There were a lot of discussion after the photos of Ozil and Gundogan with Erdogan appeared. As you all know there were a lot of trouble on the political side between Germany and Turkey in the last two years. Imprison of German people with Turkish roots.
And as @ForeverAddickted stated: If there had been success (at least semi-final) for the German team nobody would have cared. But after this disaster you have to find out what has gone wrong.
Putting all blame on Ozil is way to simple. He wasn't the only player to underperform and he didn't play that bad in the game against South Korea.
Similar to Arsenal supports everybody in Germany expects Ozil to do extraodinary things the whole 90 minutes.
The critism "I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose" is imo not to wrong. If you are looking for a scapegoat the point of foreign origins is pointed out by people who are looking for simple answers. And there are many of these people.
If the DFB isn't able to find the 'real' rootcause of the World Cup exit in the group stage it will be tough years the support the German team (Die Mannschaft).
I expect to have more fun in supporting Charlton tbh.10 -
Ozil’s family have been there for generations, his grandparents were from Turkey but both his parents were born in Germany I think, as was he.SuedeAdidas said:What is the situation with these 2......did they qualify by birth (or parents / grandparents) - or via residency for x amount of years?
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South Korea will take him.
He was their best player at the World cup.1 -
Cheers.se9addick said:
Ozil’s family have been there for generations, his grandparents were from Turkey but both his parents were born in Germany I think, as was he.SuedeAdidas said:What is the situation with these 2......did they qualify by birth (or parents / grandparents) - or via residency for x amount of years?
Not really for this thread - but getting eligibility for a national team on residency rules seems so wrong to me.1 -
Fair play to him, clearly explained his thoughts and why he thought he hadn't been treated badly. I didn't hear much about this Erdogan controversy before but good on the bloke for standing up for himself and his morals/beliefs.1
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But it wasnt residency as stated him, his mum and his dad were born in Germany.SuedeAdidas said:
Cheers.se9addick said:
Ozil’s family have been there for generations, his grandparents were from Turkey but both his parents were born in Germany I think, as was he.SuedeAdidas said:What is the situation with these 2......did they qualify by birth (or parents / grandparents) - or via residency for x amount of years?
Not really for this thread - but getting eligibility for a national team on residency rules seems so wrong to me.
His grandparents are turkish hence he has turkish roots0 -
I know mate - that's why I said it wasn't for this thread.paulie8290 said:
But it wasnt residency as stated him, his mum and his dad were born in Germany.SuedeAdidas said:
Cheers.se9addick said:
Ozil’s family have been there for generations, his grandparents were from Turkey but both his parents were born in Germany I think, as was he.SuedeAdidas said:What is the situation with these 2......did they qualify by birth (or parents / grandparents) - or via residency for x amount of years?
Not really for this thread - but getting eligibility for a national team on residency rules seems so wrong to me.
His grandparents are turkish hence he has turkish roots1 - Sponsored links:
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I dunno I've read in places where there are a few people who moan about Sterling being Jamaican and the fact that the England National Youth Teams appear to be "stealing" a load of Nigerian players blah blah blahse9addick said:
Think some of the criticism of Ozil and other ethnic minority players (particularly the Turkish Germans that met with Erdogan) after they were knocked out of the World Cup got quite nasty, hence this decision. I know the ethnicity of the Switzerland squad was a big talking point there, as I believe it was in Begium.cafctom said:Not criticising his reasoning at all, but I was wondering why he didn’t just quit at the time that it happened if it was that personal for him?
Otherwise it looks as though he just wanted to hang on for one final World Cup opportunity and deliberately picked a time after it to quit. Am I missing something here?
Seems to be something that’s happening more and more across Europe whereas in England there is no discussion at all about the ethnicity of the England team, it’s not even a talking point, which shows what a progressive and tolerant society we have compared to other places.0 -
The only people giving players like Dele stick though are Nigerians!ForeverAddickted said:
I dunno I've read in places where there are a few people who moan about Sterling being Jamaican and the fact that the England National Youth Teams appear to be "stealing" a load of Nigerian players blah blah blahse9addick said:
Think some of the criticism of Ozil and other ethnic minority players (particularly the Turkish Germans that met with Erdogan) after they were knocked out of the World Cup got quite nasty, hence this decision. I know the ethnicity of the Switzerland squad was a big talking point there, as I believe it was in Begium.cafctom said:Not criticising his reasoning at all, but I was wondering why he didn’t just quit at the time that it happened if it was that personal for him?
Otherwise it looks as though he just wanted to hang on for one final World Cup opportunity and deliberately picked a time after it to quit. Am I missing something here?
Seems to be something that’s happening more and more across Europe whereas in England there is no discussion at all about the ethnicity of the England team, it’s not even a talking point, which shows what a progressive and tolerant society we have compared to other places.0 -
Really, not sure I’ve seen any of that (other than commenting that Sterling was born in Jamaica, as it’s interesting). Certainly nothing about nicking players from Nigeria.ForeverAddickted said:
I dunno I've read in places where there are a few people who moan about Sterling being Jamaican and the fact that the England National Youth Teams appear to be "stealing" a load of Nigerian players blah blah blahse9addick said:
Think some of the criticism of Ozil and other ethnic minority players (particularly the Turkish Germans that met with Erdogan) after they were knocked out of the World Cup got quite nasty, hence this decision. I know the ethnicity of the Switzerland squad was a big talking point there, as I believe it was in Begium.cafctom said:Not criticising his reasoning at all, but I was wondering why he didn’t just quit at the time that it happened if it was that personal for him?
Otherwise it looks as though he just wanted to hang on for one final World Cup opportunity and deliberately picked a time after it to quit. Am I missing something here?
Seems to be something that’s happening more and more across Europe whereas in England there is no discussion at all about the ethnicity of the England team, it’s not even a talking point, which shows what a progressive and tolerant society we have compared to other places.2 -
Whilst I generally agree with his statement I do think being photographed with Erdogan was maybe a little naïve due to recent events in Turkey.
I know he has done no wrong and he doesn't have explain his life and background to one and all but sometimes I think it worth avoiding situations like this, it gives the racists opportunities on a plate.1 -
It’s a weird one and I don’t quite understand the furore in Germany. If one of our players who comes from a minority ethnic background was photographed with the leader of that country - let’s say Ashley Young was photographed with the President of Jamaica (do they have one?) and captioned the photo “my president” online - do you think there would be a media meltdown? I’m genuinely not sure.charltonkeston said:Whilst I generally agree with his statement I do think being photographed with Erdogan was maybe a little naïve due to recent events in Turkey.
I know he has done no wrong and he doesn't have explain his life and background to one and all but sometimes I think it worth avoiding situations like this, it gives the racists opportunities on a plate.0 -
Ademola Lookman | Dominic Solanke | Tammy Abraham can all represent Nigeriase9addick said:
Really, not sure I’ve seen any of that (other than commenting that Sterling was born in Jamaica, as it’s interesting). Certainly nothing about nicking players from Nigeria.ForeverAddickted said:
I dunno I've read in places where there are a few people who moan about Sterling being Jamaican and the fact that the England National Youth Teams appear to be "stealing" a load of Nigerian players blah blah blahse9addick said:
Think some of the criticism of Ozil and other ethnic minority players (particularly the Turkish Germans that met with Erdogan) after they were knocked out of the World Cup got quite nasty, hence this decision. I know the ethnicity of the Switzerland squad was a big talking point there, as I believe it was in Begium.cafctom said:Not criticising his reasoning at all, but I was wondering why he didn’t just quit at the time that it happened if it was that personal for him?
Otherwise it looks as though he just wanted to hang on for one final World Cup opportunity and deliberately picked a time after it to quit. Am I missing something here?
Seems to be something that’s happening more and more across Europe whereas in England there is no discussion at all about the ethnicity of the England team, it’s not even a talking point, which shows what a progressive and tolerant society we have compared to other places.
Think its more the pathetic remarks on Comments Boards (not here) when we won the U17 and U20 World Cup saying that it was really Nigeria who won those World Cups rather than it being England0 -
He's got every right to call out racism, and good on him for taking a stand.
He's such a tart in all other aspects of his character though. On the pitch, he's so weak. I think Arsenal made a huge mistake tying him down with £300k a week. He should go and play for PSG, a club that have no domestic competition and they can carry him4 -
I imagine that the majority of those type of comments were from bitter Nigerian fans though. After all it was them who were booing Dele in the pre world cup warm up match against NigeriaForeverAddickted said:
Ademola Lookman | Dominic Solanke | Tammy Abraham can all represent Nigeriase9addick said:
Really, not sure I’ve seen any of that (other than commenting that Sterling was born in Jamaica, as it’s interesting). Certainly nothing about nicking players from Nigeria.ForeverAddickted said:
I dunno I've read in places where there are a few people who moan about Sterling being Jamaican and the fact that the England National Youth Teams appear to be "stealing" a load of Nigerian players blah blah blahse9addick said:
Think some of the criticism of Ozil and other ethnic minority players (particularly the Turkish Germans that met with Erdogan) after they were knocked out of the World Cup got quite nasty, hence this decision. I know the ethnicity of the Switzerland squad was a big talking point there, as I believe it was in Begium.cafctom said:Not criticising his reasoning at all, but I was wondering why he didn’t just quit at the time that it happened if it was that personal for him?
Otherwise it looks as though he just wanted to hang on for one final World Cup opportunity and deliberately picked a time after it to quit. Am I missing something here?
Seems to be something that’s happening more and more across Europe whereas in England there is no discussion at all about the ethnicity of the England team, it’s not even a talking point, which shows what a progressive and tolerant society we have compared to other places.
Think its more the pathetic remarks on Comments Boards (not here) when we won the U17 and U20 World Cup saying that it was really Nigeria who won those World Cups rather than it being England3 -
It's easily one of, if not the, most insightful, intelligent things written by (or even for) a footballer.Chris_from_Sidcup said:Quite a statement from him yesterday, and fair play to him. No player should have to put up with racism. Although i accept Erdogan isn't the greatest of people to be photographed with whilst saying "my president'.
"I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose"
The guy is a 5 time German footballer of the year, a world cup winner, has 92 caps and has created more assists for Germany than any player since making his debut 9 years ago.
We can talk about if what he did in meeting Erdogan (and what he wrote) is appropriate, but it's a far more prosaic conversation than what was put forward by the growing right wing, racist, xenophobic bloc in Germany which basically said "We want out because you're Turkish" (aka brown aka not like us and it all starts to sound eerily familiar).
As FA points out, this has definitely been an issue with Switzerland in recent memory, as it has with Belgium (though *as I understand it* with Belgium it's a little more complicated as it gets at the larger division in Belgian society between the Flemish and French speakers).
Also, I do think this happens drastically less in England. But it's hard for me to look at the treatment Raheem Sterling has received and not think that at least some of that is driven by racial animus, especially given the sources for some of it. I know the tabloids have a long history of tearing England players down, but when you look at the things Raheem Sterling gets abuse over, as opposed to say what Wayne Rooney got historically, it's a wide chasm.11 -
I honestly don’t believe that Sterling gets abuse because he’s black or born in Jamaica. The former is not a talking point and I reckon the majority of people here don’t even realise the latter (not least because Sterling sounds like a cockney when he talks!).SDAddick said:
It's easily one of, if not the, most insightful, intelligent things written by (or even for) a footballer.Chris_from_Sidcup said:Quite a statement from him yesterday, and fair play to him. No player should have to put up with racism. Although i accept Erdogan isn't the greatest of people to be photographed with whilst saying "my president'.
"I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose"
The guy is a 5 time German footballer of the year, a world cup winner, has 92 caps and has created more assists for Germany than any player since making his debut 9 years ago.
We can talk about if what he did in meeting Erdogan (and what he wrote) is appropriate, but it's a far more prosaic conversation than what was put forward by the growing right wing, racist, xenophobic bloc in Germany which basically said "We went out because you're Turkish" (aka brown aka not like us and it all starts to sound eerily familiar).
As FA points out, this has definitely been an issue with Switzerland in recent memory, as it has with Belgium (though *as I understand it* with Belgium it's a little more complicated as it gets at the larger division in Belgian society between the Flemish and French speakers).
Also, I do think this happens drastically less in England. But it's hard for me to look at the treatment Raheem Sterling has received and not think that at least some of that is driven by racial animus, especially given the sources for some of it. I know the tabloids have a long history of tearing England players down, but when you look at the things Raheem Sterling gets abuse over, as opposed to say Wayne Rooney, it's insane.
Sterling gets stick because he regularly falls massively below expectations in an England shirt. Wayne Rooney is England’s all time leading scorer. The reason the two are treated differently has very little to do with race.6
