England v Croatia
Comments
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And I'm saying we might - there are easy sides of the draw etc more than people are suggesting, we could get one again.oohaahmortimer said:
I’m talking about England having the easiest route to a final ever imaginable, weak group , weak knock out opponents and a weak semi final opponent , we will never see that again .North Lower Neil said:
I think they happen more often than people think - 1990, Belgium and Cameroon before a difficult semi final, 2002 teams going out left, right and centre. Euro 2016 is another example, Portugal's side of the draw.oohaahmortimer said:Chances like that to get to a World Cup Final come along once in a lifetime.
In the last 20-25 years teams like Sweden, Romania and Turkey have reached semis without playing anyone great.
Lopsided draws will happen more often in 24 team Euros and 48 team World Cups too.0 -
Those young men put themselves in a fantastic position and will be disappointed. They need to learn from it and I don't doubt they will. Same goes for Southgate.
This isn't the culmination of a generation like in 1990. Its the start of one. And building on a foundation of a world cup semi final is a pretty fantastic place to start.
Don't forget we have U20 and U17 world champions following this lot as well as multiple toulon tournament winners. This is nothing like 2006/10/14 where we couldnt see where the players were coming from. The players in the first team will begin racking up medals, and hopefully on the continental stage too.
In two years the semi finals and final of the European Championships are at Wembley. We seldom lose there.
Get used to heartbreak at the latter end of tournaments. Only 1 team can win. But England are well and truly on the path to being the team of the next decade.
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I think Tennyson said it best “tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”.4
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Klinsmann got it spot on the other day and its very possible we're now going to go down the same route
2006 a very young Germany Squad went to the World Cup (albeit their own) they'd won nothing in 10-years and got to the Semi-Finals before losing to Italy, remember it was a German team that had been completely revolutionised after their embarassing performance in Euro 2000... Eight years later and they were lifting the World Cup
No reason why that same sort of thing wont happen for this England team3 -
The wealth of the Premier League will always hold us back - prevents young domestic players getting an early chance and just as importantly discourages them to try their hand overseas.8
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Dunno, the amount of kids that seem happy to go to Germany now is rising very quicklynewyorkaddick said:The wealth of the Premier League will always hold us back - prevents young domestic players getting an early chance and just as importantly discourages them to try their hand overseas.
Especially as they'll look at the chances that Sancho got last season - Lookman too will be a great example, can see him getting barely a chance this term which will send a silent message to the kids proving they can stay in England or go to Germany where they'll be given opportunities
Think even Liverpool struggled to keep hold of Rhian Brewster this summer as he was nearly the latest to go1 -
I don’t mind players going abroad - I think it actually helps them progress. Lookman for example will be much better for his experience last season.newyorkaddick said:The wealth of the Premier League will always hold us back - prevents young domestic players getting an early chance and just as importantly discourages them to try their hand overseas.
The premier league is a joke to be honest. Money, it’s all about the money.2 -
I'm hoping now that those England players have put themselves in the shop window and have given their peers something to aim for. Several former England players could not understand why the overseas players at their clubs got so excited about going on international duty. Fingers crossed we now inject that excitement about play it for your country into this generation of English footballers. They need to understand that they need to be playing regular, even if it means going abroad, they have to be playing regular top level football, not warming a bench for Chelsea or Man Citynewyorkaddick said:The wealth of the Premier League will always hold us back - prevents young domestic players getting an early chance and just as importantly discourages them to try their hand overseas.
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I also think the rough and tumble of the Prem doesn't encourage the development of our young 'technical' players coming through the Academies and younger age international teams. The great foreign players who have graced the Prem had their technique honed elsewhere before arriving here.ForeverAddickted said:
Dunno, the amount of kids that seem happy to go to Germany now is rising very quicklynewyorkaddick said:The wealth of the Premier League will always hold us back - prevents young domestic players getting an early chance and just as importantly discourages them to try their hand overseas.
Especially as they'll look at the chances that Sancho got last season - Lookman too will be a great example, can see him getting barely a chance this term which will send a silent message to the kids proving they can stay in England or go to Germany where they'll be given opportunities
Think even Liverpool struggled to keep hold of Rhian Brewster this summer as he was nearly the latest to go1 -
Exactly why Sancho left City for Dortmund.Carter said:
I'm hoping now that those England players have put themselves in the shop window and have given their peers something to aim for. Several former England players could not understand why the overseas players at their clubs got so excited about going on international duty. Fingers crossed we now inject that excitement about play it for your country into this generation of English footballers. They need to understand that they need to be playing regular, even if it means going abroad, they have to be playing regular top level football, not warming a bench for Chelsea or Man Citynewyorkaddick said:The wealth of the Premier League will always hold us back - prevents young domestic players getting an early chance and just as importantly discourages them to try their hand overseas.
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Speaking through it at work, and someone made the good point that we seem to be confusing the strength of the team and the favourability of the draw.
People are saying that this team wipes the floor with the so called 'golden generation' but the team with Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard etc never got a draw like this lot did.
I do wonder what the Japan 2002 side for instance would have done had they got Sweden and Croatia instead of Brazil in the quarters.4 -
Fair point LOL I meant to say when it became clear they had our 3 at the back under pressure and we weren't able to play it out from the back. As soon as they equalised we needed to completely change it up.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Well even if Shelvey had been there, i'm pretty sure that after a comfortable first half with us winning 1-0, Southgate wouldn't have made 3 changes at half time!Dazzler21 said:Should have come out 2nd half in a 4-4-2
Pickford
Trippier Maguire Stones Rose
Lingard Henderson Shelvey Sterling
Kane Rashford
Only one problem with that side...
No matter though, I am still proud of the team.0 -
Could argue we should have beaten Portugal in 2004 and 2006DamoNorthStand said:Speaking through it at work, and someone made the good point that we seem to be confusing the strength of the team and the favourability of the draw.
People are saying that this team wipes the floor with the so called 'golden generation' but the team with Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard etc never got a draw like this lot did.
I do wonder what the Japan 2002 side for instance would have done had they got Sweden and Croatia instead of Brazil in the quarters.
Ronaldo wasnt quite there yet and they've never been a brilliant side, man for man our Golden Generation was a lot better than their squads at the time - Yes we'd have ended up against Holland and France in the Semi-Finals of each respective tournament1 -
Yep agree on the hour mark bit!RedChaser said:
Or on the hour mark, 99% agree with that Daz, sub Delph for the fella who never got the call up and we could have shut down the threat from their constant overlapping full backsDazzler21 said:Should have come out 2nd half in a 4-4-2
Pickford
Trippier Maguire Stones Rose
Lingard Henderson Shelvey Sterling
Kane Rashford
Only one problem with that side...
As many have said, gutted but there's more hope for the future than for a long time with the current set up plus some of the under 21 world champions will be breaking through.1 -
The less said about the "golden generation" today, the better. This new group put them to shame with their team spirit and application.DamoNorthStand said:Speaking through it at work, and someone made the good point that we seem to be confusing the strength of the team and the favourability of the draw.
People are saying that this team wipes the floor with the so called 'golden generation' but the team with Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard etc never got a draw like this lot did.
I do wonder what the Japan 2002 side for instance would have done had they got Sweden and Croatia instead of Brazil in the quarters.10 -
Yes, under pressure old habits crept back, hurried passes back to the keeper, a rushed clearance up the park, giving away possession once again. No wonder the players were tired, as they were constantly having to chase the opposition.Chunes said:The right-back, Vrsaljko, said after the game:
“The all-round perception was that this is a new-look England who have changed their ways of punting long balls upfield but when we pressed them it turned out that they haven’t.”
Some truth to this. In the first half it made us move the ball faster, and we looked dangerous with our pace. Second half, the midfield completely disappeared and we just smashed it up there. We were totally unable to keep the ball. The top sides can always keep it to relieve a bit of pressure. We reverted to type.
A lot of that is down to defenders not having an outball, as our midfield was swamped and leggy by that stage and not showing enough. I remember yesterday suggesting bringing Delph on for Dele to give us more energy and cover down the left hand side.1 -
Imagine having a player like Scholes available to just drop into that midfield last night.Callumcafc said:
The less said about the "golden generation" today, the better. This new group put them to shame with their team spirit and application.DamoNorthStand said:Speaking through it at work, and someone made the good point that we seem to be confusing the strength of the team and the favourability of the draw.
People are saying that this team wipes the floor with the so called 'golden generation' but the team with Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard etc never got a draw like this lot did.
I do wonder what the Japan 2002 side for instance would have done had they got Sweden and Croatia instead of Brazil in the quarters.0 -
Southgate kept the same system throughout the tournament, Martinez changed it every match. Both reached the semis and lost, so I'm not sure what that says about the benefits of continuity versus the benefits of surprise!0
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The 98 team certainly had a real togetherness... They also had an equally easy group - Almost Identically Tunisia, Romania and Colombia.Callumcafc said:
The less said about the "golden generation" today, the better. This new group put them to shame with their team spirit and application.DamoNorthStand said:Speaking through it at work, and someone made the good point that we seem to be confusing the strength of the team and the favourability of the draw.
People are saying that this team wipes the floor with the so called 'golden generation' but the team with Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard etc never got a draw like this lot did.
I do wonder what the Japan 2002 side for instance would have done had they got Sweden and Croatia instead of Brazil in the quarters.
We were very unfortunate to go out to Argentina. If Beckham hadn't been sent off it wouldn't have been unrealistic for us to go on and get another goal.
The quality we had was vastly better in every position.Seaman
G Neville Adams Campbell Anderton
Beckham Ince Le Saux Scholes
Owen Shearer.
(Beckham 47 OFF)
(Southgate for Le Saux 70)
(Merson for Scholes 78)
(Batty for Anderton 96)2 -
But none of the teams from 98 02 06 or 10 made a semi final. You can pick individuals out and on paper they were better players in their prime but in reaching a semi final, this was a better overall team.
Do we compare the players of 1990 to the teams of 1986, 1982 unfavourably? In 1990 we scraped through the knockout rounds against 'poor' opposition but went further than at any point in the 80s.3 - Sponsored links:
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or Michael Carrick evenCarter said:
Imagine having a player like Scholes available to just drop into that midfield last night.Callumcafc said:
The less said about the "golden generation" today, the better. This new group put them to shame with their team spirit and application.DamoNorthStand said:Speaking through it at work, and someone made the good point that we seem to be confusing the strength of the team and the favourability of the draw.
People are saying that this team wipes the floor with the so called 'golden generation' but the team with Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard etc never got a draw like this lot did.
I do wonder what the Japan 2002 side for instance would have done had they got Sweden and Croatia instead of Brazil in the quarters.0 -
I don't disagree. But the players in 98 were far better was my point. Weirdly in 98 and 2018 we finished with 10 Men.0
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That was a good team but when people refer to the Golden Generation they mean 2004.Dazzler21 said:
The 98 team certainly had a real togetherness... They also had an equally easy group - Almost Identically Tunisia, Romania and Colombia.Callumcafc said:
The less said about the "golden generation" today, the better. This new group put them to shame with their team spirit and application.DamoNorthStand said:Speaking through it at work, and someone made the good point that we seem to be confusing the strength of the team and the favourability of the draw.
People are saying that this team wipes the floor with the so called 'golden generation' but the team with Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard etc never got a draw like this lot did.
I do wonder what the Japan 2002 side for instance would have done had they got Sweden and Croatia instead of Brazil in the quarters.
We were very unfortunate to go out to Argentina. If Beckham hadn't been sent off it wouldn't have been unrealistic for us to go on and get another goal.
The quality we had was vastly better in every position.Seaman
G Neville Adams Campbell Anderton
Beckham Ince Le Saux Scholes
Owen Shearer.
(Beckham 47 OFF)
(Southgate for Le Saux 70)
(Merson for Scholes 78)
(Batty for Anderton 96)1 -
Why did Henderson come off?1
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Can only presume it was maybe in preparation for the penalties seeing that he missed one and Dier scored
I'd have considered putting Delph on for someone like Lingard though1 -
We missed him. Dier is good at stopping others but he's never going to create chances or drive the team forwards.ValleyGary said:Why did Henderson come off?
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Rashford -> SterlingForeverAddickted said:Can only presume it was maybe in preparation for the penalties seeing that he missed one and Dier scored
I'd have considered putting Delph on for someone like Lingard though
Rose -> Young
Dier -> Henderson
Walker -> Vardy
Think Henderson got taken off because he was blowing hard after tracking Modric, Rakitic and Brosovic side to side for 60 minutes.
I'd have rather reinforced that part of the pitch after 50-55 minutes than done a like for like swap in extra time but it's nit picking.
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Massively. No surprise in the two games he's come off or changed position we have struggled.The Red Robin said:
We missed him. Dier is good at stopping others but he's never going to create chances or drive the team forwards.ValleyGary said:Why did Henderson come off?
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And Sterling. 1-0 up against Colombia when he went off. 1-1 with Croatia when he went off.ValleyGary said:
Massively. No surprise in the two games he's come off or changed position we have struggled.The Red Robin said:
We missed him. Dier is good at stopping others but he's never going to create chances or drive the team forwards.ValleyGary said:Why did Henderson come off?
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Just sitting thinking what a great World Cup it’s been. England in particular have given us something to shout about. Usually after we get knocked out it’s doom and gloom. But we have got so much to be positive about. Not often our last game is with one day of the competition left.
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