Your England 23 man squad
Comments
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Would take that "never say die" defender in Tarkowski, sometimes you really just want someone to put there body on the line and get it away at all costs.killerandflash said:Smalling can feel slightly hard done by, with Jones and Cahill being called up and not him. I imagine it's because they're better with the ball
That might have counted against Tarkowski too, a great "stopper" but not so comfortable in possession, and Burnley don't play in that style anyway
Picking players like Delph and Young suggests Southgate has gone for versatility. I'm certainly rather have Delph in midfield (even if he hasn't played there much this season) than Livermore
Also, Tarkowski has been in much better form than Cahill. His experience will be good for this young squad though.1 -
Yeah I think that's roughly what he's thinking, though I'm not sure about Alli in a central midfield two.PaddyP17 said:I reckon it'll be a three-man defence with Walker on its right-hand side, which Southgate did recently. I appreciate this is very, very attacking, but I can see:
GK: Pickford (I'd have Pope though)
CB: Stones
CB: Maguire
CB: Walker
RWB: Trippier
LWB: Young
CDM: Dier
CAM: Alli
RW: Sterling
LW: Rashford
ST: Kane
Given the defensive duties of the wing-backs, as well as Dier, I'm happy with Alli, Sterling, Rashford, and Kane all being in the same side.
However, in the squad I'd have had Tarkowski over Cahill, Ward-Prowse or Cook over Loftus-Cheek, and Shelvey for Welbeck (not like for like I know).
The thing for me is that you take Ashley Young because he can provide cover at both wingback positions, meaning you can take one fewer wingback. Ditto Fabian Delph in a way. So whilst Alexander-Arnold is a very good young player, he seems redundant to me as Walker and Tripper and Young can cover that right wingback slot.
Alternatively, without Wilshire, Cook, Lallana, and Shelvey (though I'm not convinced that what he does in the Prem would translate to the international stage) there is very little creativity in the center of that midfield. And what have England struggled with for the last let's say 15 years? The ability to unlock packed defenses and break teams down.
They may well get away with it in the group stages. Sitting back against Belgium and hitting them on the counter has been very effective and I think they'll hope that quality will just win out against Panama. But still. Dier and Henderson in central midfield when you need to break a team down could be a huge problem.3 -
Why? They can just let England have the ball. Or alternatively, never give them the ball with their ability to keep possession.CL_Phantom said:Laugh all you want but I guarantee you Germany, Spain, Brazil, Belgium et all are shiteing themselves at the amount of athleticism our squad has.
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Grace Jones song wasn't it? At least Danny Welbeck can do a good impression of her for them.Redskin said:Delph & L- Cheek ahead of Shelvey?
Southgate's an FA man: fearful of the creative maverick, and a slave to the labourer.0 -
Athleticism is great but it's not going to trump ball retention in 30° heat.CL_Phantom said:Laugh all you want but I guarantee you Germany, Spain, Brazil, Belgium et all are shiteing themselves at the amount of athleticism our squad has.
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SDAddick said:
Why? They can just let England have the ball. Or alternatively, never give them the ball with their ability to keep possession.CL_Phantom said:Laugh all you want but I guarantee you Germany, Spain, Brazil, Belgium et all are shiteing themselves at the amount of athleticism our squad has.
I this when I get to say whoooosh?SantaClaus said:
Athleticism is great but it's not going to trump ball retention in 30° heat.CL_Phantom said:Laugh all you want but I guarantee you Germany, Spain, Brazil, Belgium et all are shiteing themselves at the amount of athleticism our squad has.
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You're mad.CL_Phantom said:Laugh all you want but I guarantee you Germany, Spain, Brazil, Belgium et all are shiteing themselves at the amount of athleticism our squad has.
Germany have Draxler, Reus and Sane.
Spain wouldn't let us have the ball.
Brazil have Neymar, Firmino, Douglas costa, Jesus and Coutinho
I doubt any of them are particularly bothered that we have Lingard and Sterling.2 -
Good point about Young - it is all about covering the squad and giving yourself options.SDAddick said:
Yeah I think that's roughly what he's thinking, though I'm not sure about Alli in a central midfield two.PaddyP17 said:I reckon it'll be a three-man defence with Walker on its right-hand side, which Southgate did recently. I appreciate this is very, very attacking, but I can see:
GK: Pickford (I'd have Pope though)
CB: Stones
CB: Maguire
CB: Walker
RWB: Trippier
LWB: Young
CDM: Dier
CAM: Alli
RW: Sterling
LW: Rashford
ST: Kane
Given the defensive duties of the wing-backs, as well as Dier, I'm happy with Alli, Sterling, Rashford, and Kane all being in the same side.
However, in the squad I'd have had Tarkowski over Cahill, Ward-Prowse or Cook over Loftus-Cheek, and Shelvey for Welbeck (not like for like I know).
The thing for me is that you take Ashley Young because he can provide cover at both wingback positions, meaning you can take one fewer wingback. Ditto Fabian Delph in a way. So whilst Alexander-Arnold is a very good young player, he seems redundant to me as Walker and Tripper and Young can cover that right wingback slot.
Alternatively, without Wilshire, Cook, Lallana, and Shelvey (though I'm not convinced that what he does in the Prem would translate to the international stage) there is very little creativity in the center of that midfield. And what have England struggled with for the last let's say 15 years? The ability to unlock packed defenses and break teams down.
They may well get away with it in the group stages. Sitting back against Belgium and hitting them on the counter has been very effective and I think they'll hope that quality will just win out against Panama. But still. Dier and Henderson in central midfield when you need to break a team down could be a huge problem.0 -
Yeah, but, can they get up and down a pitch like Hendo?Chris_from_Sidcup said:
You're mad.CL_Phantom said:Laugh all you want but I guarantee you Germany, Spain, Brazil, Belgium et all are shiteing themselves at the amount of athleticism our squad has.
Germany have Draxler, Reus and Sane.
Spain wouldn't let us have the ball.
Brazil have Neymar, Firmino, Douglas costa, Jesus and Coutinho
I doubt any of them are particularly bothered that we have Lingard and Sterling.0 -
Likewise I think you could argue it's a bit redundant to take both Welbeck and Lingard. I suppose Welbeck can lead the line if needed, when Lingard doesn't offer that so much, but in the unlikely event we lose both Kane and Vardy, Rashford would be a last resort third backup there, and lets face it Welbeck is hardly bomb proof where injuries are concerned. I like the new broom approach Southgate has taken, but you are bang on when saying there is just too little creativity in there. Lallana was a must for me if fit enough because he a) is a proper playmaker, albeit not atruly world class one and b) has actually performed well for England, and I'm not, and never have been, Shelvey's greatest fan but even a critic like me has to admit he has had a good season and offers something that noone else in the squad does so I think he should have been included as an x-factor, but Southgate clearly doesn't fancy him.SDAddick said:
Yeah I think that's roughly what he's thinking, though I'm not sure about Alli in a central midfield two.PaddyP17 said:I reckon it'll be a three-man defence with Walker on its right-hand side, which Southgate did recently. I appreciate this is very, very attacking, but I can see:
GK: Pickford (I'd have Pope though)
CB: Stones
CB: Maguire
CB: Walker
RWB: Trippier
LWB: Young
CDM: Dier
CAM: Alli
RW: Sterling
LW: Rashford
ST: Kane
Given the defensive duties of the wing-backs, as well as Dier, I'm happy with Alli, Sterling, Rashford, and Kane all being in the same side.
However, in the squad I'd have had Tarkowski over Cahill, Ward-Prowse or Cook over Loftus-Cheek, and Shelvey for Welbeck (not like for like I know).
The thing for me is that you take Ashley Young because he can provide cover at both wingback positions, meaning you can take one fewer wingback. Ditto Fabian Delph in a way. So whilst Alexander-Arnold is a very good young player, he seems redundant to me as Walker and Tripper and Young can cover that right wingback slot.
Alternatively, without Wilshire, Cook, Lallana, and Shelvey (though I'm not convinced that what he does in the Prem would translate to the international stage) there is very little creativity in the center of that midfield. And what have England struggled with for the last let's say 15 years? The ability to unlock packed defenses and break teams down.
They may well get away with it in the group stages. Sitting back against Belgium and hitting them on the counter has been very effective and I think they'll hope that quality will just win out against Panama. But still. Dier and Henderson in central midfield when you need to break a team down could be a huge problem.1 - Sponsored links:
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Young Cahill Jones Henderson Delph and Welbeck should be nowhere near and England squad in their prime, and most are has-beens.0
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Personally don't think Alexander-Arnold, Young or Delph should be in the squad. I can see the case for Young, but it should have been at the expense of Rose rather than Bertrand then.0
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Has beens? Jones, Henderson and Welbeck are all 27 aren't they?harveys_gardener said:Young Cahill Jones Henderson Delph and Welbeck should be nowhere near and England squad in their prime, and most are has-beens.
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It is difficult when you only have 23 and 3 of them are keepers. England managers going back through a number of years do't seem to see the value of something different, but there have been too many occasions when we have been crying out for something different in games that are not going our way.Exiled_Addick said:
Likewise I think you could argue it's a bit redundant to take both Welbeck and Lingard. I suppose Welbeck can lead the line if needed, when Lingard doesn't offer that so much, but in the unlikely event we lose both Kane and Vardy, Rashford would be a last resort third backup there, and lets face it Welbeck is hardly bomb proof where injuries are concerned. I like the new broom approach Southgate has taken, but you are bang on when saying there is just too little creativity in there. Lallana was a must for me if fit enough because he a) is a proper playmaker, albeit not atruly world class one and b) has actually performed well for England, and I'm not, and never have been, Shelvey's greatest fan but even a critic like me has to admit he has had a good season and offers something that noone else in the squad does so I think he should have been included as an x-factor, but Southgate clearly doesn't fancy him.SDAddick said:
Yeah I think that's roughly what he's thinking, though I'm not sure about Alli in a central midfield two.PaddyP17 said:I reckon it'll be a three-man defence with Walker on its right-hand side, which Southgate did recently. I appreciate this is very, very attacking, but I can see:
GK: Pickford (I'd have Pope though)
CB: Stones
CB: Maguire
CB: Walker
RWB: Trippier
LWB: Young
CDM: Dier
CAM: Alli
RW: Sterling
LW: Rashford
ST: Kane
Given the defensive duties of the wing-backs, as well as Dier, I'm happy with Alli, Sterling, Rashford, and Kane all being in the same side.
However, in the squad I'd have had Tarkowski over Cahill, Ward-Prowse or Cook over Loftus-Cheek, and Shelvey for Welbeck (not like for like I know).
The thing for me is that you take Ashley Young because he can provide cover at both wingback positions, meaning you can take one fewer wingback. Ditto Fabian Delph in a way. So whilst Alexander-Arnold is a very good young player, he seems redundant to me as Walker and Tripper and Young can cover that right wingback slot.
Alternatively, without Wilshire, Cook, Lallana, and Shelvey (though I'm not convinced that what he does in the Prem would translate to the international stage) there is very little creativity in the center of that midfield. And what have England struggled with for the last let's say 15 years? The ability to unlock packed defenses and break teams down.
They may well get away with it in the group stages. Sitting back against Belgium and hitting them on the counter has been very effective and I think they'll hope that quality will just win out against Panama. But still. Dier and Henderson in central midfield when you need to break a team down could be a huge problem.0 -
Seem to have been around forever but never had a good tourney.cafcfan1990 said:
Has beens? Jones, Henderson and Welbeck are all 27 aren't they?harveys_gardener said:Young Cahill Jones Henderson Delph and Welbeck should be nowhere near and England squad in their prime, and most are has-beens.
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No Mavericks, wind up merchants or big heads in the squad. At least they should all get on and not get in the papers for the wrong thing.
Does seem a team of wing backs and no real no 10 unless you play Alli there? Personally would like to see Kane and Vardy play up front together in a 3-4-1-2 with Alli right behind the front 2.3 -
Got to find a way to play Vardy. I’d have Sterling, Kane and Vardy as the front three (in the style of Salah, Firmino and Mane at Liverpool). Would offer more threat than Rashford.2
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Its an OK squad but not over adventurous, and I think there are some players lucky to make it such as Delph, Young & Welbeck. Personally I would have found room for at least one and possibly more of Wilshere, Lallana & Shelvey as I think the midfield lacks creativity. I just hope Southgate plays 2 upfront presumably Kane & Vardy otherwise I think goals will be hard to come by.0
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So many fullbacks0
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Now a positive. I like Vardy, Kane and Rashford - not many teams will have a stronger three. I like the thought of Rashford, Vardy, Kane and Sterling as the attacking players in the side if we are going for it. Or Vardy, Kane and Sterling if you are going to play 4-3-3 and use your fullbacks to push on. Then with Alli, Henderson and AN other (I would have liked Wilshire or Shelvey as that other) but it isn't too shoddy.0
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I want to sort of reiterate something I alluded to earlier.
The balance of this squad seems very strange to me. As cover for wingback positions you have:
RWB:
Tripper, Walker, Alexander-Arnold, Young
LWB: Rose, Young, Delph
I just don't understand why you need so many right wing backs. I know Walker will probably play in a back three but even then you have Tripper and Young as cover. TAA is going to be a great player but why is he needed in this squad? And if it's to blood a good young player, why him and not someone like Lewis Cook or Lookman, or even a Dominic Solanke, all potential impact players. And if you want to take one punt in the squad, why not Lallana or Wilshere? I completely understand the worry of taking a player you don't think can play twice in four days or who could break down during the tournament. But to me the upside with any of the above is much higher than the risk.
This is a young, versatile team with a lot of players who can cover multiple positions. But it feels like that hasn't been properly utilized.3 -
Easier when you have players like Dier, Walker, Young, Rashford, Welbeck, Lingard etc. etc who can play more than one position. I think there was lots of scope within a squad of 20 outfield players to take 1 or 2 specialists.MuttleyCAFC said:
It is difficult when you only have 23 and 3 of them are keepers. England managers going back through a number of years do't seem to see the value of something different, but there have been too many occasions when we have been crying out for something different in games that are not going our way.Exiled_Addick said:
Likewise I think you could argue it's a bit redundant to take both Welbeck and Lingard. I suppose Welbeck can lead the line if needed, when Lingard doesn't offer that so much, but in the unlikely event we lose both Kane and Vardy, Rashford would be a last resort third backup there, and lets face it Welbeck is hardly bomb proof where injuries are concerned. I like the new broom approach Southgate has taken, but you are bang on when saying there is just too little creativity in there. Lallana was a must for me if fit enough because he a) is a proper playmaker, albeit not atruly world class one and b) has actually performed well for England, and I'm not, and never have been, Shelvey's greatest fan but even a critic like me has to admit he has had a good season and offers something that noone else in the squad does so I think he should have been included as an x-factor, but Southgate clearly doesn't fancy him.SDAddick said:
Yeah I think that's roughly what he's thinking, though I'm not sure about Alli in a central midfield two.PaddyP17 said:I reckon it'll be a three-man defence with Walker on its right-hand side, which Southgate did recently. I appreciate this is very, very attacking, but I can see:
GK: Pickford (I'd have Pope though)
CB: Stones
CB: Maguire
CB: Walker
RWB: Trippier
LWB: Young
CDM: Dier
CAM: Alli
RW: Sterling
LW: Rashford
ST: Kane
Given the defensive duties of the wing-backs, as well as Dier, I'm happy with Alli, Sterling, Rashford, and Kane all being in the same side.
However, in the squad I'd have had Tarkowski over Cahill, Ward-Prowse or Cook over Loftus-Cheek, and Shelvey for Welbeck (not like for like I know).
The thing for me is that you take Ashley Young because he can provide cover at both wingback positions, meaning you can take one fewer wingback. Ditto Fabian Delph in a way. So whilst Alexander-Arnold is a very good young player, he seems redundant to me as Walker and Tripper and Young can cover that right wingback slot.
Alternatively, without Wilshire, Cook, Lallana, and Shelvey (though I'm not convinced that what he does in the Prem would translate to the international stage) there is very little creativity in the center of that midfield. And what have England struggled with for the last let's say 15 years? The ability to unlock packed defenses and break teams down.
They may well get away with it in the group stages. Sitting back against Belgium and hitting them on the counter has been very effective and I think they'll hope that quality will just win out against Panama. But still. Dier and Henderson in central midfield when you need to break a team down could be a huge problem.0 -
I think that depends on whether it is intended as a left midfielder or as an attacker. As the former, he has serious limitations and I’d agree with you. But playing as Mane does for Liverpool (which was my point) his pace and trickery would scare most defenders to death.PaddyP17 said:
Except Vardy is about as useful as a chocolate teapot on the left.Davo55 said:Got to find a way to play Vardy. I’d have Sterling, Kane and Vardy as the front three (in the style of Salah, Firmino and Mane at Liverpool). Would offer more threat than Rashford.
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Mind you - we probably wont set up like that.MuttleyCAFC said:Now a positive. I like Vardy, Kane and Rashford - not many teams will have a stronger three. I like the thought of Rashford, Vardy, Kane and Sterling as the attacking players in the side if we are going for it. Or Vardy, Kane and Sterling if you are going to play 4-3-3 and use your fullbacks to push on. Then with Alli, Henderson and AN other (I would have liked Wilshire or Shelvey as that other) but it isn't too shoddy.
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Belgium, France, Spain, Germany, Argentina, Brazil all have a front three to rival/trump ours, and then have the likes of Kante and Pogba, or Kroos and Muller, or De Bruyne and Nainggolan playing behind them, we'll have Henderson and Loftus-CheekMuttleyCAFC said:Now a positive. I like Vardy, Kane and Rashford - not many teams will have a stronger three. I like the thought of Rashford, Vardy, Kane and Sterling as the attacking players in the side if we are going for it. Or Vardy, Kane and Sterling if you are going to play 4-3-3 and use your fullbacks to push on. Then with Alli, Henderson and AN other (I would have liked Wilshire or Shelvey as that other) but it isn't too shoddy.
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A year ago if we had done a poll on who would be the one ex Charlton player going to World Cup for England.
Gomez 61%
Shelvey 22%
Defoe 13%
Lookman 4%
Heaton was on the plane and Pope was a bench warmer for Burnley.
Nick Pope you have stepped up to the mark.
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I love how for a madeup poll your percentages are so accurate 61,22,13 and 4 lolsoapboxsam said:A year ago if we had done a poll on who would be the one ex Charlton player going to World Cup for England.
Gomez 61%
Shelvey 22%
Defoe 13%
Lookman 4%
Heaton was on the plane and Pope was a bench warmer for Burnley.
Nick Pope you have stepped up to the mark.0 -
A couple of questionable calls but all decision have been made for the right reason and not just to keep established players happy.
I would have personally selected Lallana, fully aware he hasn’t played for years but he has too much quality to not be selected. Would have had Wilshere as well. I would not have had TAA or Cahill, because of our squad balance.
Overall, I am actually a fan of Southgate and am pleased with the work he is doing. Delighted that Phil Jones has been selected, one of the most underrated players in the premier league IMO (Do not @me), 13 clean sheets in 25 game is very impressive.1
