Airstrikes against Syria
Comments
-
It was a cabinet decision apparently, and that would have included Boris Johnson
Boris effing Johnson.
We can all sleep easier in our beds then.
I reckon sending Roger Johnson to eff and blind might have been a better strategy rather than rely on the judgement of Boris 'picannies ' Johnson.4 -
the whole thing seems a bit of a stunt (for lack of a better word) to me.
just heard on the news that Russia knew about the strikes many hours if not days before. so they make sure they are out the way so no Russians get hurt.(maybe a quick whisper to their mate Assad to move anything valuable away from those targets and to get ready for an attack stopping what they can and claim over 70 of our 110 missiles were intercepted) We look like we are doing the right thing by making a stance against chemical warfare. the Russians are not affected so no need for them to over react and Assads regime can say they did alright against the air attacks from major military powers. no one loses face as it were.
not suggesting all of this is true but it seems its extremely possible this is how things have played out from the bits I have read.9 -
Great postRodneyCharltonTrotta said:We have become so pampered and comfortable in our lives. None of us strive for the basics in life like the majority of the world outside the west do in terms of food, shelter etc.
In turn we have become self- obsessed narcissistic and in our little bubbles consumed by our new opiate of celebrity, premier league football and mass consumerism.
Ironically we have never been better connected to the world but never been so insulated and inward looking.
We have developed a NIMBY approach to world affairs of shiteing ourselves of standing up and getting involved for fear of reprisals and any impact on our comfortable existence.
It's understandable and human nature but at the same time we've lost our humanity and backbone to a degree that we have become so desensitised to images of gassed children coming in through our 50 inch HD tvs that we whimper that we shouldn't get involved and it's not our battle for the fear that it may escalate and affect our comparative utopias.
We talk the talk in our daily lives and on social media about how we are good and great and stand up to it but when it comes down to it it's largely just talk.
A few generations ago people were giving their lives for what was right in 2 world wars, to fight evil in the second, and thank goodness they did.
I demonstrated sheer cowardice years back when Obama wished to go in and in an act of self preservation breathed a huge sigh of relief that our politicians voted to bow down to Putin's threats. I've felt deep shame about that ever since and every time images of Syrian suffering have been broadcast in the ensuing years.
I am not a fan of May and take issue with 99% of what Trump does but on this issue they are right. For all the gargantuan faults of the UK and US and misguided campaigns and foreign policy they've done the right thing.
The consequences of escalation are terrifying and as the father of 2 young children I'm not being flippant.
But what sort of people would we be and what sort of country and world would we live in if we just continue to turn a blind eye to such atrocities and appease the likes of Putin and Assad at the detriment of thousands of innocent men, women and children.
Not in my name.
1 -
To have suffered the ravages of civil war in Syria must be unimaginably awful, but to have to continue to live in a violent society where gun attacks are a commonplace under a mad, deluded president propped up by malevolent forces, determined to cling to power at any cost including the lives of his own compatriots just adds insult to injury.SDAddick said:
You want to talk about turning a blind eye?RodneyCharltonTrotta said:We have become so pampered and comfortable in our lives. None of us strive for the basics in life like the majority of the world outside the west do in terms of food, shelter etc.
In turn we have become self- obsessed narcissistic and in our little bubbles consumed by our new opiate of celebrity, premier league football and mass consumerism.
Ironically we have never been better connected to the world but never been so insulated and inward looking.
We have developed a NIMBY approach to world affairs of shiteing ourselves of standing up and getting involved for fear of reprisals and any impact on our comfortable existence.
It's understandable and human nature but at the same time we've lost our humanity and backbone to a degree that we have become so desensitised to images of gassed children coming in through our 50 inch HD tvs that we whimper that we shouldn't get involved and it's not our battle for the fear that it may escalate and affect our comparative utopias.
We talk the talk in our daily lives and on social media about how we are good and great and stand up to it but when it comes down to it it's largely just talk.
A few generations ago people were giving their lives for what was right in 2 world wars, to fight evil in the second, and thank goodness they did.
I demonstrated sheer cowardice years back when Obama wished to go in and in an act of self preservation breathed a huge sigh of relief that our politicians voted to bow down to Putin's threats. I've felt deep shame about that ever since and every time images of Syrian suffering have been broadcast in the ensuing years.
I am not a fan of May and take issue with 99% of what Trump does but on this issue they are right. For all the gargantuan faults of the UK and US and misguided campaigns and foreign policy they've done the right thing.
The consequences of escalation are terrifying and as the father of 2 young children I'm not being flippant.
But what sort of people would we be and what sort of country and world would we live in if we just continue to turn a blind eye to such atrocities and appease the likes of Putin and Assad at the detriment of thousands of innocent men, women and children.
Not in my name.
The US has taken in 11 Syrian refugees this year.
11.
I don't know if missile strikes will help the Syrian people and make them safer. I genuinely hope it does. But if you really want to help them, if you really want to put skin in the game, take in refugees. Give more support to huge refugee camps in places like Jordan, Greece, Turkey, etc. Stop the demonization of refugees, let alone foreigners.
It's way cheaper than missiles, but for some reason it's way, way harder.
They might as well have stayed in Syria.3 -
.0
-
Something has to be done. Governments shouldn't kills their own people, certainly not gas them. But it's not as easy as sending in a few missiles.
I won't pretentious I understand what's going on, so ignore this if it's crap... But you have the Assad government, propped up by a few countries, then you have armed rebels including ISIS. Can't say I like either.
Somewhat has to happen? Wipe out one side and let the other side win? Wipe out both sides? Risk war with the other countries involved?
What next? The country is in ruins. A global effort to replace the infrastructure, help the people overcome the scars of war, re-home refugees, put in a stable government (great track record of that...) It's a complete effing mess, and it's for once not entirely of our own making.
I've only got questions. Yeah, a sustained global effort to fix the problem is what's needed, but with all these competing interests, there's no chance of this happening.
Agree with a lot of what @RodneyCharltonTrotta posted, but burying my head might be better than the utter sense of helplessness I've feeling at the moment. But if you put yourself in the situation of the average Syrian civilian, you'd want to be helped. Agree with @SDAddick as well in therms of helping and taking refugees. I can't imagine that going down too well here though.3 -
How many refugees are to many ? The next 20,000 or the next 2,000 "child refugees" ----- none of this its "only 10,000 "shit forgetting about the 200,000 plus per year already coming in--legit immigration --- simple question when is enough ? As someone who is married to an immigrant for 25 years I'd like to
know when do we stop ?0 -
Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.alan dugdale said:I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.
Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.
Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.
How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?
13 -
For information and discussion (from the BBC):
This is the full text of the leader of the opposition Jeremy Corbyn's letter to UK Prime Minister Theresa May asking her to publish the legal basis for the UK's air strikes on targets in Syria:
Dear Prime Minister,
I want to thank you for speaking to me last night regarding the bombing raids in Syria overnight, and for the security briefing you shared. I am very glad that all British military personnel have returned home safely, and hope too that there have been no civilian casualties in Syria.
As I said I believe that Parliament should have been consulted and voted on the matter. The UK Prime Minister is accountable to Parliament, not to the whims of a US President. I believe the action was legally questionable, and this morning the UN Secretary General has said as much, reiterating that all countries must act in line with the UN Charter.
You assured me that the Attorney General had given clear legal advice approving the action. I would therefore be grateful if you would publish this advice in full today.
Given that neither the UN nor the OPCW has yet investigated, it is clear that diplomatic and non-military means have not been fully exhausted. It is now vitally important that the OPCW inspectors, who are due to arrive in Douma today, are allowed to do their work and publish their report into their findings - and report to the United Nations Security Council.
I would therefore welcome your assurance that there will be no further bombing raids while OPCW inspectors are on the ground. They must be allowed to complete their inspections without hindrance.
Acting through the United Nations, I believe Britain should now take a diplomatic lead to negotiate a pause in this abhorrent conflict in which hundreds of thousands of Syrians have already been killed and millions displaced.
The refugee crisis places a responsibility on all countries and I the government will now increase its commitment to take additional refugees.
Hundreds of unaccompanied children remain in Europe and the UK must do more through the Dubs amendment. This means engaging with all parties that are involved in the conflict - including Iran, Israel, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the US - to ensure there is an immediate ceasefire.
We have the grotesque spectacle of a wider geopolitical proxy battle being waged with the Syrian people used as pawns by all sides. I would welcome your assurance that Britain will embark on renewed diplomatic efforts to end this conflict.
Our only priority must be the safety and security of the Syrian people - which is best served by de-escalating this conflict, so that aid can get in.
Yours sincerely,
Jeremy Corbyn MP Leader of the Opposition
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-4371030320 - Sponsored links:
-
I'm no fan of Corbyn but I can't take issue with any of that5
-
It ain’t stupid and I’m not a buffoon. There are those on here and other social media forums that do condemn and oppose everything Trump and May do.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.alan dugdale said:I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.
Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.
Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.
How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?
Only a total f***ing buffoon would disagree with that.0 -
Hamas"our friends " JCorbyn0
-
She didn’t need to ask permission she done the right thing and I am glad she did
Corbyn wouldn’t do anything if you were caught with your fingers in his old lady the man is a coward
If we would have told comerade corbyn what was happening he would have rang putin on the red phone4 -
Where are the UN in all of this ?0
-
He wouldn't need to. Simply tip off his Czech handler.nth london addick said:She didn’t need to ask permission she done the right thing and I am glad she did
Corbyn wouldn’t do anything if you were caught with your fingers in his old lady the man is a coward
If we would have told comerade corbyn what was happening he would have rang putin on the red phone3 -
Russia uses its vetoBoysie said:Where are the UN in all of this ?
0 -
Let's not forget the rebels used chemical weapons too https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-chemicalweapons/exclusive-chemical-weapons-used-in-syrian-fighting-watchdog-idUSKCN0SU2PZ201511052
-
alan dugdale said:
It ain’t stupid and I’m not a buffoon. There are those on here and other social media forums that do condemn and oppose everything Trump and May do.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.alan dugdale said:I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.
Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.
Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.
How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?
Only a total f***ing buffoon would disagree with that.
Ah that moron that does his politics by tweet and the twot that is so shit at having an opinion shes barely allowed to talk publically ?
only a buffoon would blindly follow there outlook on the world
0 -
As the rear admiral on the BBC this morning intimated, discussing military attacks in parliament increases the danger to our military personnel since the MP's for muppet central would disclose information in the broadcast. Sometimes you have to leave decisions to those who have been chosen to lead. It is called the Royal perogative and is what the PM is tasked to do. Imagine a Corbin led government - we are under nuclear attack and he summons parliament to discuss how Kim Jong is not all bad.
Like it or lump it that is what the choices are, do something or do nothing. Go back to Chamberlains meeting in Munich to understand what doing nothing results in. As with Rodney Charlton Trotta I am no fan of May or Trump. Equally i believe that Corbyn makes Chamberlain look like a strong leader. This decision wastaken with both the US and France if you want to know why the French came in read their statement
copied on bbc wesite.0 - Sponsored links:
-
I’m surprised you can spell buffoon, considering your appalling grammar.shine166 said:alan dugdale said:
It ain’t stupid and I’m not a buffoon. There are those on here and other social media forums that do condemn and oppose everything Trump and May do.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.alan dugdale said:I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.
Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.
Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.
How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?
Only a total f***ing buffoon would disagree with that.
Ah that moron that does his politics by tweet and the twot that is so shit at having an opinion shes barely allowed to talk publically ?
only a buffoon would blindly follow there outlook on the world
I don’t blame her for not having an opinion. Dare to oppose some on here, with a different opinion, and all you get is abuse.3 -
It was a stupid comment - seemed to imply that only those who don't like Trump or May are opposed to this. Many are opposed to this and it hasn't been thought through - you know that.alan dugdale said:
It ain’t stupid and I’m not a buffoon. There are those on here and other social media forums that do condemn and oppose everything Trump and May do.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.alan dugdale said:I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.
Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.
Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.
How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?
Only a total f***ing buffoon would disagree with that.
Trump doesn't have a coherent military strategy and the West has failed consistently in the Middle East for decades. We've created the majority of the problems in that region due to our ill thought out policies.
This is a knee jerk reaction because Russia is involved. Trump and the West have turned a blind eye to numerous other conflicts round the world.
Something does need to be done about Syria but air strikes on their own are not the answer. The same criticism can be levelled at Obama as well ....
3 -
So you decide to abuse me based on what you think my comments implied. Class.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
It was a stupid comment - seemed to imply that only those who don't like Trump or May are opposed to this. Many are opposed to this and it hasn't been thought through - you know that.alan dugdale said:
It ain’t stupid and I’m not a buffoon. There are those on here and other social media forums that do condemn and oppose everything Trump and May do.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.alan dugdale said:I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.
Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.
Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.
How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?
Only a total f***ing buffoon would disagree with that.
Trump doesn't have a coherent military strategy and the West has failed consistently in the Middle East for decades. We've created the majority of the problems in that region due to our ill thought out policies.
This is a knee jerk reaction because Russia is involved. Trump and the West have turned a blind eye to numerous other conflicts round the world.
Something does need to be done about Syria but air strikes on their own are not the answer. The same criticism can be levelled at Obama as well ....-1 -
And just to confirm, I don’t blindly follow any politician. My initial comments were aimed at those that blindly oppose certain politicians whilst blindly following others.shine166 said:alan dugdale said:
It ain’t stupid and I’m not a buffoon. There are those on here and other social media forums that do condemn and oppose everything Trump and May do.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.alan dugdale said:I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.
Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.
Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.
How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?
Only a total f***ing buffoon would disagree with that.
Ah that moron that does his politics by tweet and the twot that is so shit at having an opinion shes barely allowed to talk publically ?
only a buffoon would blindly follow there outlook on the world1 -
alan dugdale said:
I’m surprised you can spell buffoon, considering your appalling grammar.shine166 said:alan dugdale said:
It ain’t stupid and I’m not a buffoon. There are those on here and other social media forums that do condemn and oppose everything Trump and May do.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.alan dugdale said:I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.
Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.
Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.
How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?
Only a total f***ing buffoon would disagree with that.
Ah that moron that does his politics by tweet and the twot that is so shit at having an opinion shes barely allowed to talk publically ?
only a buffoon would blindly follow there outlook on the world
I don’t blame her for not having an opinion. Dare to oppose some on here, with a different opinion, and all you get is abuse.
ah... the old 'hes abusing me because he dared to used my quote on me' trick... very clever
and youre a grammer nazi too... congratulations on being a moron
0 -
alan dugdale said:
And just to confirm, I don’t blindly follow any politician. My initial comments were aimed at those that blindly oppose certain politicians whilst blindly following others.shine166 said:alan dugdale said:
It ain’t stupid and I’m not a buffoon. There are those on here and other social media forums that do condemn and oppose everything Trump and May do.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Really stupid comment - this isn't about being anti Trump or May it's about having a coherent foreign policy. Only a total f***ing buffoon would say this has been thought through - it's a knee jerk publicity seeking stunt with nothing to follow through.alan dugdale said:I guess all the anti Trump/May brigade would rather do it diplomatically via the UN ?
Oh, we tried that but the Russians veto everything.
Or draw a red line which must not be crossed.
Oh, Obama already did that but didn’t act when it was crossed, then let the Russians “dispose” of Assad’s chemical weapons.
Western foreign policy has been a total disaster in the Middle East - we've helped create half the problems and we've learnt nothing.
Air strikes in themselves are not a strategy - any brief study of history will demonstrate that. You can't carve up a region with ridiculous boundaries, supply it with arms, randomly support brutal dictators and then feign surprise when it goes belly up.
How many failures do we need in the Middle East before we take stock of history?
Only a total f***ing buffoon would disagree with that.
Ah that moron that does his politics by tweet and the twot that is so shit at having an opinion shes barely allowed to talk publically ?
only a buffoon would blindly follow there outlook on the world
Just to confirm, I dont really give 2 shits so stop being so precious0 -
All our bombs have done is killed more innocent people.
The rhetoric about 'standing up to Putin' is nonsense and only there so Trump and May can get a few approval points.0 -
No fan of Corbyn and think he would be a poor PM but what he says is correct: if this is handled badly it is likely to escalate and make things worse all round. The timing of this with the new embarrassing book on Trump coming out, which is now not the headline story, is very suspect as well.4
-
seth plum said:
He wouldn't need to. Simply tip off his Czech handler.nth london addick said:She didn’t need to ask permission she done the right thing and I am glad she did
Corbyn wouldn’t do anything if you were caught with your fingers in his old lady the man is a coward
If we would have told comerade corbyn what was happening he would have rang putin on the red phone0
