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Karl Robinson (Ed. Page 79 - GONE- Mutual Consent)

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  • ValleyGary
    ValleyGary Posts: 37,971
    Someone’s nicked the last few pages out of his dummy’s guide to management book.

    Can’t finish teams off and subsequently can’t close games out. Tactically inept and too quick to pass the blame.

    Give him till the end of the season and with the 99% probability we’ll still be in this ball bag league next season, send him packing in May
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,210
    Croydon said:

    Anything other than top 6 this season is a failure. On that basis, Karl is currently failing.

    Long way to go of course, and we can still make it, but you can't blame fans for losing patience with Robinson when we are underperforming.

    (I would in fact say anything other than promotion was a failure, but top 6 is a bare minumum)

    I can't disagree with that.

    The aim is season was promotion and while that is still more than possible there are legitimate doubts over the club's ability to deliver it.

    As in nearly everything in life there is no one simple, one sentence, solution. If there was the guy at the bar in your local would be running the country.

    The injuries are one factor, in particular losing Clarke and Fosu, but also Pearce and Bauer and now Mavididi.

    The lopsided squad was another. One striker in Magennis who has to play every game because there is no alternative and he's needed for his defensive work. Dodoo. I don't need to say any more about how wrong the club got it over strikers.

    The formation or the lack of variation in formation is another problem. Nothing wrong with 4231 when you have Clarke but teams soon worked out a way to beat or at least stifle it. We've kept on playing it.

    The uncertainty at the top and the lack of commitment from Duchatelet and Meire, both only interested in getting out is another factor.

    And there are others (none of which are to do with protests or CARD by the way) too.

    Add that all together and you get what? 7th with some games in hand.

    So, yes Robinson is responsible for some of those, Duchatelet and Meire for others, bad luck for others.

    And with most it is a combination of all three.

    But this is football and the bottom line is that the manager gets the credit for success and the blame for failure even if he's not 100% responsible or things were outside his control. Often that is grossly unfair and sometimes a new face, a new approach changes things around, even if only in the short-term.

    So Karl, just win games.

  • Dave2l
    Dave2l Posts: 8,864
    edited February 2018
    You've gotta remain hopeful but let's face it, promotions very unlikely to happen this season...also especially after yesterday's disappointment.

    Robin is a northerner and Barnsley are in the championship.

    If he gets a good contract offer then in my opinion he will be off like a shot.

    We will have new owners maybe in 3 weeks..... It would only be a pain via his potential departure because we need someone to hold the fort together until the takeover.

    Other then that he can leave and it's also a bit safe to say "so what"

    If he doesn't see a future with charlton then we can easily just say thanks and goodbye.

    Not necessarily needed at all really and we can do much better.

    If he stays...it would also not be the worst thing in the world.
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,667
    I don't know what it is with Robinson but I just can't warm to him.
    I think he is very poor at making in game decisions and also poor when it comes to the use of substitutes.
    Even with the injuries we have had to endure this season with the players now at his disposal it would be a total failure if we don't make the playoffs.
    Time to start winning matches and prove to any new owners that you are worth keeping on.
    If we don't make the playoffs at least then he can have no complaints if he is replaced.
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    edited February 2018
    Phil said:

    Our squad is amongst the best there’s little doubt of that just as there is little doubt of Robinson’s ability to manage it well. We’ve been beaten repeatedly by clubs with even smaller gates than us and less resources. As a basic indicator there aren’t many league 1 clubs that can get games postponed because players are on international duty.

    Not sure. Karl's lost it a bit recently.

    I prefer Aribo to Reeves, I preferred Best and KAG to Magennis, and I think subbing off Dasilva was a mistake, (although I can see the thinking behind it). I also prefer Bauer to Lennon by a huge margin.
    Karl will be judged on what we achieve this season. If we finish outside the top six he's probably done for. If we get promoted I'd stick with him and see what he can do with proper resources. If new owners remove him, that's their right, and let's hope a new man does better. He may well do. But managers don't necessarily need huge resources to improve the way a team play. Look at SCP at Southend.
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    Croydon said:

    Blinded by his love for KR

    I'm just anti hysteria.
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    edited February 2018
    MrOneLung said:

    We’ve got a top 3 squad with a top 12 manager.

    We've got a top 6 squad with a top 10 manager.
  • PopIcon
    PopIcon Posts: 5,970

    PopIcon said:

    If Robinson gets us promoted with this squad it will be nothing short of a miracle.

    Our defence is shocking as are our options up front.

    Our squad is easily amongst the 3-4 best in the division. Certainly better than Shrewsbury and Scunthorpe, not to mention in the summer we signed 2 of Bradford's best players from last year and they're still above us!
    Have you watched much league one footy outside of Charlton? Shrewsbury have got an excellent defence, far better than ours. Scunny are overall probably even with us.

    I would say we have three or four players who are good enough to get us out of this league.

    How many of our current players, excluding loans would have got in to Powell's league winning team? My opinion is two! Pearce for Taylor and Fosu for Green/Wagstaff.

    It was an odd choice to bring in two additional wide men on loan. It's clear that is not what we are lacking....

    It's a shame, because if Robinson had been given some dosh to spend I think he'd got us out of this league.
  • What's he got against Aribo, he had a little run in the team, played well then gets dropped.

    In fact you could say the same about Grant, whilst I am not his biggest fan, scored a few goals got a bit of confidence, gets dropped, gets shipped out on loan.

    To me he has his favourites and will more or less play them whatever form they are in. England manager in the making!

    Gone by end of season if the takeover takes place.

    A question for everyone. And assuming the takeover goes ahead.

    If you was the person heading the consortium who was investing £30-£40 million to buy the club would you be happy to continue with our current manager.

    My personal view is no I would not.
    The reasons being I think that his tactics are poor, and his lack of experience in football shows,
    To make poor substitutions in the last five minutes two weeks running that has cost us two wins, and to have lost 10 points this season from winning positions is terrible.
    Letting Novak go on deadline day with no cover in place.
    Bringing in his old mate Ben Reeves who was clearly unfit, and is still struggling was a terrible decision.

    All in all I do not think this is the man to take Charlton onto better things. And if I was the new owner a new manager would be the first thing that I would do.
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    edited February 2018

    What's he got against Aribo, he had a little run in the team, played well then gets dropped.

    In fact you could say the same about Grant, whilst I am not his biggest fan, scored a few goals got a bit of confidence, gets dropped, gets shipped out on loan.

    To me he has his favourites and will more or less play them whatever form they are in. England manager in the making!

    Gone by end of season if the takeover takes place.

    A question for everyone. And assuming the takeover goes ahead.

    If you was the person heading the consortium who was investing £30-£40 million to buy the club would you be happy to continue with our current manager.

    My personal view is no I would not.
    The reasons being I think that his tactics are poor, and his lack of experience in football shows,
    To make poor substitutions in the last five minutes two weeks running that has cost us two wins, and to have lost 10 points this season from winning positions is terrible.
    Letting Novak go on deadline day with no cover in place.
    Bringing in his old mate Ben Reeves who was clearly unfit, and is still struggling was a terrible decision.

    All in all I do not think this is the man to take Charlton onto better things. And if I was the new owner a new manager would be the first thing that I would do.
    The first thing I'd do would be to get that sofa back.
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  • PopIcon said:

    PopIcon said:

    If Robinson gets us promoted with this squad it will be nothing short of a miracle.

    Our defence is shocking as are our options up front.

    Our squad is easily amongst the 3-4 best in the division. Certainly better than Shrewsbury and Scunthorpe, not to mention in the summer we signed 2 of Bradford's best players from last year and they're still above us!
    Have you watched much league one footy outside of Charlton? Shrewsbury have got an excellent defence, far better than ours. Scunny are overall probably even with us.

    I would say we have three or four players who are good enough to get us out of this league.

    How many of our current players, excluding loans would have got in to Powell's league winning team? My opinion is two! Pearce for Taylor and Fosu for Green/Wagstaff.

    It was an odd choice to bring in two additional wide men on loan. It's clear that is not what we are lacking....

    It's a shame, because if Robinson had been given some dosh to spend I think he'd got us out of this league.
    They're performing better than us, there's no doubt about that. But the point is about the overall squad. Our squad is (on paper) way better than Shrewsbury! We have internationals, youth internationals, guys with experience in much higher divisions. Shrewsbury's squad (aside from their loan players) are almost all from the lower leagues and non league.
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,755
    Shrewsbury's manager is making one plus one equal five with the players he has available.

    Robinson is making two plus two equal three.
  • Quick maths

  • You don't have to have the best players to make the best team, at the moment we have a lot of good individuals but we're not playing like a team who want's it enough.
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    edited February 2018

    PopIcon said:

    PopIcon said:

    If Robinson gets us promoted with this squad it will be nothing short of a miracle.

    Our defence is shocking as are our options up front.

    Our squad is easily amongst the 3-4 best in the division. Certainly better than Shrewsbury and Scunthorpe, not to mention in the summer we signed 2 of Bradford's best players from last year and they're still above us!
    Have you watched much league one footy outside of Charlton? Shrewsbury have got an excellent defence, far better than ours. Scunny are overall probably even with us.

    I would say we have three or four players who are good enough to get us out of this league.

    How many of our current players, excluding loans would have got in to Powell's league winning team? My opinion is two! Pearce for Taylor and Fosu for Green/Wagstaff.

    It was an odd choice to bring in two additional wide men on loan. It's clear that is not what we are lacking....

    It's a shame, because if Robinson had been given some dosh to spend I think he'd got us out of this league.
    They're performing better than us, there's no doubt about that. But the point is about the overall squad. Our squad is (on paper) way better than Shrewsbury! We have internationals, youth internationals, guys with experience in much higher divisions. Shrewsbury's squad (aside from their loan players) are almost all from the lower leagues and non league.
    Unfortunately for your argument they have players brought in from Man Utd, Swansea and Burnley (Prem) and from Reading, Wolves, Derby, Sheffield Utd, Barnsley and two from Norwich (Championship).
    They have loan players, the same as we do @Chris_from_Sidcup
  • ValleyGary
    ValleyGary Posts: 37,971
    edited February 2018
    JamesSeed said:

    PopIcon said:

    PopIcon said:

    If Robinson gets us promoted with this squad it will be nothing short of a miracle.

    Our defence is shocking as are our options up front.

    Our squad is easily amongst the 3-4 best in the division. Certainly better than Shrewsbury and Scunthorpe, not to mention in the summer we signed 2 of Bradford's best players from last year and they're still above us!
    Have you watched much league one footy outside of Charlton? Shrewsbury have got an excellent defence, far better than ours. Scunny are overall probably even with us.

    I would say we have three or four players who are good enough to get us out of this league.

    How many of our current players, excluding loans would have got in to Powell's league winning team? My opinion is two! Pearce for Taylor and Fosu for Green/Wagstaff.

    It was an odd choice to bring in two additional wide men on loan. It's clear that is not what we are lacking....

    It's a shame, because if Robinson had been given some dosh to spend I think he'd got us out of this league.
    They're performing better than us, there's no doubt about that. But the point is about the overall squad. Our squad is (on paper) way better than Shrewsbury! We have internationals, youth internationals, guys with experience in much higher divisions. Shrewsbury's squad (aside from their loan players) are almost all from the lower leagues and non league.
    Unfortunately for your argument they have players brought in from Man Utd, Swansea and Burnley (Prem) and from Reading, Wolves, Derby, Sheffield Utd, Barnsley and two from Norwich (Championship).
    They have loan players, the same as we do @Chris_from_Sidcup

    Might be an idea to save the anti Robbo stuff until the end of the season.
    Shrewsbury’s defence is ‘better’ than ours because they have a manager and coaching team that organises them brilliantly. Man for man they are not better than ours, but collectively they are.

    They also score plenty of late goals to WIN games. Another sign of good management and team mentality. In the last 15 minutes of games this season Shrewsbury and us have both scored 10 goals, but they’ve conceded 4. We’ve conceded 14!

  • JamesSeed said:

    PopIcon said:

    PopIcon said:

    If Robinson gets us promoted with this squad it will be nothing short of a miracle.

    Our defence is shocking as are our options up front.

    Our squad is easily amongst the 3-4 best in the division. Certainly better than Shrewsbury and Scunthorpe, not to mention in the summer we signed 2 of Bradford's best players from last year and they're still above us!
    Have you watched much league one footy outside of Charlton? Shrewsbury have got an excellent defence, far better than ours. Scunny are overall probably even with us.

    I would say we have three or four players who are good enough to get us out of this league.

    How many of our current players, excluding loans would have got in to Powell's league winning team? My opinion is two! Pearce for Taylor and Fosu for Green/Wagstaff.

    It was an odd choice to bring in two additional wide men on loan. It's clear that is not what we are lacking....

    It's a shame, because if Robinson had been given some dosh to spend I think he'd got us out of this league.
    They're performing better than us, there's no doubt about that. But the point is about the overall squad. Our squad is (on paper) way better than Shrewsbury! We have internationals, youth internationals, guys with experience in much higher divisions. Shrewsbury's squad (aside from their loan players) are almost all from the lower leagues and non league.
    Unfortunately for your argument they have players brought in from Man Utd, Swansea and Burnley (Prem) and from Reading, Wolves, Derby, Sheffield Utd, Barnsley and two from Norwich (Championship).
    They have loan players, the same as we do @Chris_from_Sidcup

    Might be an idea to save the anti Robbo stuff until the end of the season.
    Did you not see the bit where i said "aside from their loan players".

    Anyway if you look through the side that has played the vast majority of their games, they're all from the lower/non leagues.

    Henderson (the keeper) is on loan from Man U, Godfrey and morris are on loan from norwich. And they signed a kid from Middlesbrough just a few weeks ago.

    So you really cannot argue that their squad is better than ours.
  • Robinson has a style of football he wants to play, and a type of player he likes to have. Indeed, this is potentially one of the most attractive squads we've ever had, in terms of the number of flair players we have

    My worry all along has always been about the solidity, the ability to grind out wins at grim northern locations or against teams full of giants. I think we're a bit soft.
  • The Red Robin
    The Red Robin Posts: 26,126
    edited February 2018
    I think Robinson would be better suited as a coach / assistant rather than a manager. I like his approach to the game and he's clearly implemented a style of play but I think he's pretty limited tactically, especially in-game. He needs a bit more experience alongside him rather than just Bowyer and Jackson.
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380

    What's he got against Aribo, he had a little run in the team, played well then gets dropped.

    In fact you could say the same about Grant, whilst I am not his biggest fan, scored a few goals got a bit of confidence, gets dropped, gets shipped out on loan.

    To me he has his favourites and will more or less play them whatever form they are in. England manager in the making!

    Gone by end of season if the takeover takes place.

    A question for everyone. And assuming the takeover goes ahead.

    If you was the person heading the consortium who was investing £30-£40 million to buy the club would you be happy to continue with our current manager.

    My personal view is no I would not.
    The reasons being I think that his tactics are poor, and his lack of experience in football shows,
    To make poor substitutions in the last five minutes two weeks running that has cost us two wins, and to have lost 10 points this season from winning positions is terrible.
    Letting Novak go on deadline day with no cover in place.
    Bringing in his old mate Ben Reeves who was clearly unfit, and is still struggling was a terrible decision.

    All in all I do not think this is the man to take Charlton onto better things. And if I was the new owner a new manager would be the first thing that I would do.

    JamesSeed said:

    PopIcon said:

    PopIcon said:

    If Robinson gets us promoted with this squad it will be nothing short of a miracle.

    Our defence is shocking as are our options up front.

    Our squad is easily amongst the 3-4 best in the division. Certainly better than Shrewsbury and Scunthorpe, not to mention in the summer we signed 2 of Bradford's best players from last year and they're still above us!
    Have you watched much league one footy outside of Charlton? Shrewsbury have got an excellent defence, far better than ours. Scunny are overall probably even with us.

    I would say we have three or four players who are good enough to get us out of this league.

    How many of our current players, excluding loans would have got in to Powell's league winning team? My opinion is two! Pearce for Taylor and Fosu for Green/Wagstaff.

    It was an odd choice to bring in two additional wide men on loan. It's clear that is not what we are lacking....

    It's a shame, because if Robinson had been given some dosh to spend I think he'd got us out of this league.
    They're performing better than us, there's no doubt about that. But the point is about the overall squad. Our squad is (on paper) way better than Shrewsbury! We have internationals, youth internationals, guys with experience in much higher divisions. Shrewsbury's squad (aside from their loan players) are almost all from the lower leagues and non league.
    Unfortunately for your argument they have players brought in from Man Utd, Swansea and Burnley (Prem) and from Reading, Wolves, Derby, Sheffield Utd, Barnsley and two from Norwich (Championship).
    They have loan players, the same as we do @Chris_from_Sidcup

    Might be an idea to save the anti Robbo stuff until the end of the season.
    Did you not see the bit where i said "aside from their loan players".

    Anyway if you look through the side that has played the vast majority of their games, they're all from the lower/non leagues.

    Henderson (the keeper) is on loan from Man U, Godfrey and morris are on loan from norwich. And they signed a kid from Middlesbrough just a few weeks ago.

    So you really cannot argue that their squad is better than ours.
    I'm not arguing that their squad is better than ours. I'm arguing against your proposition that our squad is way stronger than theirs. They have eleven players brought in from higher leagues. Whether they are loanees or not isn't relevant. Both squad have loans. You can't leave them aside.

    I feel that given the circumstances Karl's done a half decent job so far, but I will judge him at the end of the season. I won't judge him based on what Shrewsbury are, or are not doing.

    It's fair to criticise him for tactics and substitutions, but this squad argument is tenuous at best.
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  • palarsehater
    palarsehater Posts: 12,296
    hes done alright but then most managers would do alright we've hardly got a shit squad, maybe he can go to oakwell and tell them what a buzz the place has about it and how much he wants to be there, if he doesn't get playoffs, don't think many charlton fans will want him here.
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    edited February 2018
    .
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    Croydon said:

    Nug said:

    He’ll be gone as soon as new owners come in.

    Fingers crossed
    I hear Russell Slade is available.
  • rikofold
    rikofold Posts: 4,051
    Robinson is a decent league one manager. That's fine, that's where we are. Our inconsistency is entirely consistent with having a lot of young players, many of whom (particularly at the back) have had to play because of the ridiculous amount of injuries, which hardly helps the sort of settled team Powell benefitted from.

    To be honest, I like the way his teams play football. Many games this season we've been a finisher away from taking the points (Igor anyone?) having demonstrated some magical approach play, but for whatever reason we don't have that. He can't magic it out of the air.

    I think we are where we should be given how the season's panned out. Challenging for the playoffs (and we have a couple of games in hand lest we forget).

    Whatever happens post RD, I'd like us to get back to having a manager for the long term, and it's beyond question that we've improved under Robinson. Not his greatest fan, but some credit where it's due.



  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,667
    If Karl persists with playing one up front.
    Which he obviously Will,then that person simply has to score a minimum of 15 goals a season if you want success.
    It is putting far to much pressure on the midfield players to expect them to score all the goals.
    I like Josh as a person and I admire his work rate but he simply doesn't score enough goals for this system to work.
    If Robinson is still in charge next season he must either change magennis up front or change to a 4 4 2.
    Unfortunately I don't think he will do either.
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380

    If Karl persists with playing one up front.
    Which he obviously Will,then that person simply has to score a minimum of 15 goals a season if you want success.
    It is putting far to much pressure on the midfield players to expect them to score all the goals.
    I like Josh as a person and I admire his work rate but he simply doesn't score enough goals for this system to work.
    If Robinson is still in charge next season he must either change magennis up front or change to a 4 4 2.
    Unfortunately I don't think he will do either.

    You're probably right, although Fosu was a key part of the system and had already scored seven goals before being injured.
    Mavididi was also showing that he had goals in him when he was crocked. Neither he nor Fosu showed any signs that they were anxious; they were almost 'scoring for fun'.
    I'd have expected Marshall to have scored a few as well, and I'm sure he will soon given a chance.
    But it's almost freakish how few goals Josh has scored given the amount of game time he has had up front. You've got to put some of that down to bad luck, as you'd expect a few tap ins at least. Would really love to see his luck changing soon. Zyro you would think is the ready replacement, and I'd like to see him getting more than 20 minutes in that role.
  • LargeAddick
    LargeAddick Posts: 32,553
    Has he gone yet?
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    Great post as always GV
  • ValleyGary
    ValleyGary Posts: 37,971
    Grapevine needs his own bite size thread