January (2017) Transfer (Rumours) Thread - (Deadline Dayfrom page 67)
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Ahem, if you press Ctrl + Alt + down and then analyse this graph you will find we have improved every season, and continue to do soThe Red Robin said:Not enough goals in the team. Not going anywhere this season. Another failure Katrien Meire.
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Excellent post.Tutt-Tutt said:
Will he fit into the team pattern? Is he suited to our style of play? Does he work hard and close down off the ball? Does he take up good positions? Is he a good team player? Will he get stuck in or bottle it against Millwall? Does he perform well away from home? Is he 100% fit and physically strong? Does his 98% passing rate include positive forward passes or is it all sideways/backwards safe passes? When it gets tough, does he have the courage to get on the ball and play, or does he play safe and pass the responsibility? and that's just the midfield /attacking players.harveys gardener said:
Scouts need to see players in action rather than buy based on stats. Dreissen or Slade?ElfsborgAddick said:A shame we bag a fella who scored 25 last season then it seems as if he'll be sold.
Ajose's link up play is non existent, his positioning inside the box is average and he goes missing in games. His goals at Swindon must have been tap-ins and one-on-ones with the keeper. In which case, he wants the service of through balls from a creative midfielder and low crosses from wingers/overlapping full backs. If he is going to be effective, you have to play two wingers, with a Dale Stephens type midfielder. I can't see that happening with him as the lone CF in a 4-2-3-1 system. So we have a Second Striker who is not suited to our current style of play or the system the manager wants to play. If he was bought purely on stats, that's 600k down the Swanee, another Polish Pete.
You can't just bring in a load of players based on stats and throw them together as a team. They have to be brought in to fit a pattern or style of play, laid down by the manager. Unless of course, you are not bothered about results, in which case you are a player nursery and no longer a football club, but that's another argument.
All agreed except.... Ajose's Swindon goals are only around 25% 'tap ins', but some of the rest are ace.
Either it's a different Nicky Ajose, or he's seriously lost his mojo at Charlton.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l88qojbpPgw 3 -
I thought the Ajose signing was completed/well down the line before Slade came in?!
Thought it was a Head/scouts transfer...
Never got the impression Slade really fancied him. In fact in a number of games he opted to pair Novak with Magennis rather than Ajose.0 -
He looked quite exciting when he came off the bench against Gillingham and scored from the spot. Whether or not this was because the rest of the team looked awful I am not sure, but he certainly looked capable of causing problems that day. Other than that, everyone other time I have seen him he looks and acts like a sulky teenager not getting his wayJamesSeed said:
Excellent post.Tutt-Tutt said:
Will he fit into the team pattern? Is he suited to our style of play? Does he work hard and close down off the ball? Does he take up good positions? Is he a good team player? Will he get stuck in or bottle it against Millwall? Does he perform well away from home? Is he 100% fit and physically strong? Does his 98% passing rate include positive forward passes or is it all sideways/backwards safe passes? When it gets tough, does he have the courage to get on the ball and play, or does he play safe and pass the responsibility? and that's just the midfield /attacking players.harveys gardener said:
Scouts need to see players in action rather than buy based on stats. Dreissen or Slade?ElfsborgAddick said:A shame we bag a fella who scored 25 last season then it seems as if he'll be sold.
Ajose's link up play is non existent, his positioning inside the box is average and he goes missing in games. His goals at Swindon must have been tap-ins and one-on-ones with the keeper. In which case, he wants the service of through balls from a creative midfielder and low crosses from wingers/overlapping full backs. If he is going to be effective, you have to play two wingers, with a Dale Stephens type midfielder. I can't see that happening with him as the lone CF in a 4-2-3-1 system. So we have a Second Striker who is not suited to our current style of play or the system the manager wants to play. If he was bought purely on stats, that's 600k down the Swanee, another Polish Pete.
You can't just bring in a load of players based on stats and throw them together as a team. They have to be brought in to fit a pattern or style of play, laid down by the manager. Unless of course, you are not bothered about results, in which case you are a player nursery and no longer a football club, but that's another argument.
All agreed except.... Ajose's Swindon goals are only around 25% 'tap ins', but some of the rest are ace.
Either it's a different Nicky Ajose, or he's seriously lost his mojo at Charlton.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l88qojbpPgw1 -
@LouisMend said on Charlton Live that Slade wasn't a fan of Ajose and laughed at the idea of Ajose joining him at Coventry.cantersaddick said:I thought the Ajose signing was completed/well down the line before Slade came in?!
Thought it was a Head/scouts transfer...
Never got the impression Slade really fancied him. In fact in a number of games he opted to pair Novak with Magennis rather than Ajose.
Whether that was because he never rated him or because of what he saw after he signed him I have no idea.1 -
Yes I heard that and wondered the same. Not sure if I remember the timings of the transfer correctly. Was Slade here before Ajose? And how far before?Henry Irving said:
@LouisMend said on Charlton Live that Slade wasn't a fan of Ajose and laughed at the idea of Ajose joining him at Coventry.cantersaddick said:I thought the Ajose signing was completed/well down the line before Slade came in?!
Thought it was a Head/scouts transfer...
Never got the impression Slade really fancied him. In fact in a number of games he opted to pair Novak with Magennis rather than Ajose.
Whether that was because he never rated him or because of what he saw after he signed him I have no idea.0 -
Doesn't matter Robinson won't play him in his formation. We need to get rid.2
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Too early to dismiss Ajose, especially when we can't score goals.5
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Good video. Have a look at the number of crosses from the flanks and through balls, as well as the rebounds off the keeper. AJose needs a creative midfield to play forward passes in behind the opposition defensive line and low crosses in from the flanks, as basic service. He is a second striker who plays off the CF and runs in behind. Thats all good, if that's how the team plays, a quick direct build up, often on the counter attack, using a 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 system? If it's a slow passing build up through midfield, with lots of tippy tappy passing, he ain't gonna be effective.
That's where an internet scout falls over. He's looking at a players individual ability and stats, with no vision of how he fits into the team. Players are selected in isolation. Add in a lack of understanding and knowledge of the league and you get failure. There will be the odd lucky guess, but overall you will have a bunch of players that don't fit together or are unsuitable, a situation made worse if you keep changing the coach. The penny dropped with Robbo early on, so he went to Belgium to argue his case, but was put back in his box, as one of Roly's middle managers. He can talk up the £15 million training ground as much as he likes, but we all know he's another lame duck manager, who has been told to work with what he has and get on with it, with no sign of any of the Lookman money going back into the first team (or are we really getting a marquee signing, whatever that is ?).
It took Brussell a few weeks to realise he couldn't change the culture, around the time of the Be Patient comment to Louis, when he knew he wasn't getting what he had asked for. ( I think Ajose was signed before he arrived, recommended by whom?). The Belgian coaches and Luzon were all smart-asses, who thought they could run a team in England but were soon out of their depth. RIga survived his first spell on the back of Dyer and Mathew, using CP's players.
The pattern will continue, because that's how they operate, it hasn't occurred to them it's their recruitment policy that has created mediocrity. They think the issue is the need to have an English rather than Belgian coach, And that's the mistake they keep saying they have learned from, not admitting the overall policy or structure is wrong. (I doubt they'd ever admit that even if they realised it).
Congo Chris is obviously doing on the job training as the next head coach. If he has an ounce of intelligence, he should have worked out by now that this is an impossible job in the current failing structure and he will be out of his depth if he steps up.43 -
It is why he should have appointed a dof. It would have been cheaper in the long run.
I think Ajose could work while big Mag is off, but it would have to be set up to play to his strengths.0 - Sponsored links:
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But what if the DOF was Driesen or Fraeye?Redrobo said:It is why he should have appointed a dof. It would have been cheaper in the long run.
I think Ajose could work while big Mag is off, but it would have to be set up to play to his strengths.0 -
Ha, that had never occurred to me. So in a way, he did appoint a DOF. Just not a very good one.Henry Irving said:
But what if the DOF was Driesen or Fraeye?Redrobo said:It is why he should have appointed a dof. It would have been cheaper in the long run.
I think Ajose could work while big Mag is off, but it would have to be set up to play to his strengths.1 -
Unconfirmed reports that our CEO has her eye on Harry Hotpoint from Boilers R Us.
Hot prospect but can blow his cool on the big occasions.7 -
I'm not sure it's fair to blame "internet scouts" for this. This is hardly Polish Pete or Nabby Sarr territory, Ajose was a signing that just about everyone on this board was excited about. 22 in 33 league games IN THE SAME DIVISION and it's not as if Swindon were the Barcelona of L1, completely dominantTutt-Tutt said:Good video. Have a look at the number of crosses from the flanks and through balls, as well as the rebounds off the keeper. AJose needs a creative midfield to play forward passes in behind the opposition defensive line and low crosses in from the flanks, as basic service. He is a second striker who plays off the CF and runs in behind. Thats all good, if that's how the team plays, a quick direct build up, often on the counter attack, using a 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 system? If it's a slow passing build up through midfield, with lots of tippy tappy passing, he ain't gonna be effective.
That's where an internet scout falls over. He's looking at a players individual ability and stats, with no vision of how he fits into the team. Players are selected in isolation. Add in a lack of understanding and knowledge of the league and you get failure. There will be the odd lucky guess, but overall you will have a bunch of players that don't fit together or are unsuitable, a situation made worse if you keep changing the coach. The penny dropped with Robbo early on, so he went to Belgium to argue his case, but was put back in his box, as one of Roly's middle managers. He can talk up the £15 million training ground as much as he likes, but we all know he's another lame duck manager, who has been told to work with what he has and get on with it, with no sign of any of the Lookman money going back into the first team (or are we really getting a marquee signing, whatever that is ?).
It took Brussell a few weeks to realise he couldn't change the culture, around the time of the Be Patient comment to Louis, when he knew he wasn't getting what he had asked for. ( I think Ajose was signed before he arrived, recommended by whom?). The Belgian coaches and Luzon were all smart-asses, who thought they could run a team in England but were soon out of their depth. RIga survived his first spell on the back of Dyer and Mathew, using CP's players.
The pattern will continue, because that's how they operate, it hasn't occurred to them it's their recruitment policy that has created mediocrity. They think the issue is the need to have an English rather than Belgian coach, And that's the mistake they keep saying they have learned from, not admitting the overall policy or structure is wrong. (I doubt they'd ever admit that even if they realised it).
Congo Chris is obviously doing on the job training as the next head coach. If he has an ounce of intelligence, he should have worked out by now that this is an impossible job in the current failing structure and he will be out of his depth if he steps up.
This is more a problem with the DOF/Head of recruitment system, rather than having the manager responsible for all the signings, British managers are used to "signing their players", and of course that can be disastrous as well (e.g. Dowie and Pardew)
Players often take a year or two to settle, or never do. Murphy was rubbish in his first season, Johnny Robinson was poor in his first 2 years
Should managers have "their" players or should they make the most of who they have? When Gritt and Curbs took over in 1991, they couldn't change half the team, but instead made the most of what they had to turn the (laughed at) Leaburn into a key part of the team, by changing the way we played to exploit his strengths
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So we let Ajose go and bring in another, that means we have a net gain of 1 player in terms of squad size?0
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The more I read Tutt Tutt's posts, the more I wish he worked for us instead of the clowns we've actually got !!Tutt-Tutt said:Good video. Have a look at the number of crosses from the flanks and through balls, as well as the rebounds off the keeper. AJose needs a creative midfield to play forward passes in behind the opposition defensive line and low crosses in from the flanks, as basic service. He is a second striker who plays off the CF and runs in behind. Thats all good, if that's how the team plays, a quick direct build up, often on the counter attack, using a 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 system? If it's a slow passing build up through midfield, with lots of tippy tappy passing, he ain't gonna be effective.
That's where an internet scout falls over. He's looking at a players individual ability and stats, with no vision of how he fits into the team. Players are selected in isolation. Add in a lack of understanding and knowledge of the league and you get failure. There will be the odd lucky guess, but overall you will have a bunch of players that don't fit together or are unsuitable, a situation made worse if you keep changing the coach. The penny dropped with Robbo early on, so he went to Belgium to argue his case, but was put back in his box, as one of Roly's middle managers. He can talk up the £15 million training ground as much as he likes, but we all know he's another lame duck manager, who has been told to work with what he has and get on with it, with no sign of any of the Lookman money going back into the first team (or are we really getting a marquee signing, whatever that is ?).
It took Brussell a few weeks to realise he couldn't change the culture, around the time of the Be Patient comment to Louis, when he knew he wasn't getting what he had asked for. ( I think Ajose was signed before he arrived, recommended by whom?). The Belgian coaches and Luzon were all smart-asses, who thought they could run a team in England but were soon out of their depth. RIga survived his first spell on the back of Dyer and Mathew, using CP's players.
The pattern will continue, because that's how they operate, it hasn't occurred to them it's their recruitment policy that has created mediocrity. They think the issue is the need to have an English rather than Belgian coach, And that's the mistake they keep saying they have learned from, not admitting the overall policy or structure is wrong. (I doubt they'd ever admit that even if they realised it).
Congo Chris is obviously doing on the job training as the next head coach. If he has an ounce of intelligence, he should have worked out by now that this is an impossible job in the current failing structure and he will be out of his depth if he steps up.10 -
He'd be my choice of scapegoat tooHorsfield9 said:
The more I read Tutt Tutt's posts, the more I wish he worked for us instead of the clowns we've actually got !!Tutt-Tutt said:Good video. Have a look at the number of crosses from the flanks and through balls, as well as the rebounds off the keeper. AJose needs a creative midfield to play forward passes in behind the opposition defensive line and low crosses in from the flanks, as basic service. He is a second striker who plays off the CF and runs in behind. Thats all good, if that's how the team plays, a quick direct build up, often on the counter attack, using a 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 system? If it's a slow passing build up through midfield, with lots of tippy tappy passing, he ain't gonna be effective.
That's where an internet scout falls over. He's looking at a players individual ability and stats, with no vision of how he fits into the team. Players are selected in isolation. Add in a lack of understanding and knowledge of the league and you get failure. There will be the odd lucky guess, but overall you will have a bunch of players that don't fit together or are unsuitable, a situation made worse if you keep changing the coach. The penny dropped with Robbo early on, so he went to Belgium to argue his case, but was put back in his box, as one of Roly's middle managers. He can talk up the £15 million training ground as much as he likes, but we all know he's another lame duck manager, who has been told to work with what he has and get on with it, with no sign of any of the Lookman money going back into the first team (or are we really getting a marquee signing, whatever that is ?).
It took Brussell a few weeks to realise he couldn't change the culture, around the time of the Be Patient comment to Louis, when he knew he wasn't getting what he had asked for. ( I think Ajose was signed before he arrived, recommended by whom?). The Belgian coaches and Luzon were all smart-asses, who thought they could run a team in England but were soon out of their depth. RIga survived his first spell on the back of Dyer and Mathew, using CP's players.
The pattern will continue, because that's how they operate, it hasn't occurred to them it's their recruitment policy that has created mediocrity. They think the issue is the need to have an English rather than Belgian coach, And that's the mistake they keep saying they have learned from, not admitting the overall policy or structure is wrong. (I doubt they'd ever admit that even if they realised it).
Congo Chris is obviously doing on the job training as the next head coach. If he has an ounce of intelligence, he should have worked out by now that this is an impossible job in the current failing structure and he will be out of his depth if he steps up.
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Ajose isn't a lone striker or target man and he's not a winger.Redrobo said:It is why he should have appointed a dof. It would have been cheaper in the long run.
I think Ajose could work while big Mag is off, but it would have to be set up to play to his strengths.
As Tutt-Tutt says, Ajose's ability is as a 2nd striker playing off the CF for knockdowns and being fed penetrating balls from midfield to run on to.
It's the only way he can play. That's how Swindon played and why Ajose scored so many goals for them.
With few exceptions, players are developed and trained to play only one specialist position.
It's what they are good at and that's where their ability is.
We'll never get the best out of Ajose if we don't have a system to utilise the player's strengths.
He'd be better off playing for a team that does.
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Ajose needs through balls on the ground in the same way that Smertin and Murphy passed to Darren Bent. He is not tall or strong enough for any other game.3
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Interesting week ahead1
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who?ross1 said:Major signing hint from Dr Kish, Ketts
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/868534564?-11197:833:00 -
I reckon its Reeves.0
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Only in Robinson's head would that be a marquee signing. So you're probably right.cafc_se7 said:I reckon its Reeves.
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KR said he will probably wait until summer for Reeves, although why MK Dons would not sell now and let him leave for nothing in the summer I do not know0
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I'd class that as a teepee signing rather than a marquee signing.The Red Robin said:
Only in Robinson's head would that be a marquee signing. So you're probably right.cafc_se7 said:I reckon its Reeves.
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In Dr Kish's article it says that Reeves wouldn't be considered a Marquee signing and that the sale of ajose may be linked with a move for this player?
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Was Ajose considered a marquee signing in the summer considering last seasons exploits?0
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Is a theory of Ajose to MK Dons on loan until the end of the season with Reeves signing permanently now totally out of the question?
Have no clue myself, just the same as using him being out of contract in the summer as a bargaining tool, using Ajose could be one to reduce what we may pay MK Dons?
Personally, I know the debate has been done on here, but I hope we keep Ajose and sign Reeves.2
